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Old 12th September 2017, 12:10 PM   #241
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Suggestive and meaningless to YOU.

Thank FSM I don't give a **** what you people think.

All of Trump's policies are designed for rich white men. That's not subjective. It's objective fact. Maybe you should, oh - I dunno. Look at them?
Of course it's subjective.

You're obviously not talking about the actual effects of any of his policies, since you've never once talked about the actual effects. You clearly mean the intended effects. But how do you know what the intended effects are? That's obviously not objective fact either, since you can't mind read, and you aren't even basing this off of the stated motives of the actors.

You're ascribing motives to the administration. There is no possible way you can do that objectively. And you claim that you're producing objective fact as a result? Yeah, no.

A part of you probably recognizes this weakness, which is why you can't come up with a better justification for your position than "Look at them?"
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:31 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
This is wrong. But nice try. Hillary had no scandal that wasn't manufactured by conspiracy theorists and Republicans.
That's like me saying that Trump has no scandals that weren't manufactured by the toxic liberal media and conniving dems.
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Old 12th September 2017, 12:33 PM   #243
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Thread title:
Will you ever forgive Trump voters?

=

Help me bash your fellow ISF members who were Trump voters.

This thread is disgusting. It exists solely to point fingers and trash talk your fellow posters. Do you get off on this? The posts in it are so bad the whole thread should be moderated into the garbage.

I have been to some other skeptic political sites recently and though this one is possibly the largest, it takes the cake for being the rudest. No contest.

The thread title alone should clue the moderators that it does not belong here. Anywhere. The personal attacks here at this site are out of control, in my opinion.
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:05 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
...This has been said many times but the ones I have trouble forgiving are Democrats who didn't bother voting because Hillary supposedly had it in the bag. HuffPo etc. didn't do the country any favors by saying Hillary had a 99 percent probability of winning...
I can forgive the Trump voters because that's what they do-vote Trump. But the Bernie Bros ...
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:07 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
That's like me saying that Trump has no scandals that weren't manufactured by the toxic liberal media and conniving dems.
It's really not.
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:07 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
There is much more actual evidence of my claim being true than there is the Obama is a secret muslim crap.
Or that Obama is a thin-skinned narcissist.
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:11 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
The thread title alone should clue the moderators that it does not belong here. Anywhere. The personal attacks here at this site are out of control, in my opinion.
This is how it works here. If you want to insult someone but abide by the rules, you just expand the group you're insulting. Make it a large enough group, and then you're in compliance. So that's the incentive structure: insult more people, not less, if you want to get away with it.

Nobody should be surprised that this doesn't actually lead to civility.
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:15 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
This is wrong. But nice try. Hillary had no scandal that wasn't manufactured by conspiracy theorists and Republicans.
It's all just a vast right-wing conspiracy.
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Old 12th September 2017, 01:34 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I have been to some other skeptic political sites recently and though this one is possibly the largest, it takes the cake for being the rudest. No contest.
I know one, if you're interested.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This is how it works here. If you want to insult someone but abide by the rules, you just expand the group you're insulting. Make it a large enough group, and then you're in compliance. So that's the incentive structure: insult more people, not less, if you want to get away with it.

Nobody should be surprised that this doesn't actually lead to civility.
Need a safe space?
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Old 12th September 2017, 06:11 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
Clinton supporters are a "basket of despicables".
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:36 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's all just a vast right-wing conspiracy.
The right-wing spewed lots of accusations at Hillary but no evidence. Yes, it is a vast conspiracy.
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Old 12th September 2017, 08:49 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
The right-wing spewed lots of accusations at Hillary but no evidence. Yes, it is a vast conspiracy.
Verrit authentication code?
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Old 13th September 2017, 02:07 AM   #253
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I'm not American, but I can certainly forgive working class people for voting for a populist who promises them manufacturing jobs and border security. Even if he's lying, and what politician doesn't lie?

The more important question is: can you forgive Hillary Clinton and her campaign team for totally *********** borking her campaign?
She had more money, more media support, support from the former president etc.

From a totally non-political marketing perspective: Trump had a more energetic and creative campaign. Multiple rallies per day, connecting with the public, a better social media presence, and -it turns out- a much more sophisticated social media strategy using big data and geo targeting.

Clinton was undistinctive and unappealing, gave two press conferences and fainted in public.
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Old 13th September 2017, 02:22 AM   #254
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"Al of th est."

No.

These idiots are the same white supremacists that claimed Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman, despite the overwhelming opposite.

Get over it. These guys are white supremacists, they will do what they see as best for the white race.
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Old 13th September 2017, 04:21 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
She had more money, more media support, support from the former president etc.
I'm with you on everything but that bit. Before the nomination, Trump practically owned the airwaves, for free. After the nomination, Trump had the conservative echo chamber cheering him on without pretense of providing balance. Trump was not hurting for media support.
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Old 13th September 2017, 04:24 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
The more important question is: can you forgive Hillary Clinton and her campaign team for totally *********** borking her campaign?
Ah, yes. Once again let's not blame those who put Trump into office. Let's blame Hillary for not winning!
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Old 13th September 2017, 04:30 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
Verrit authentication code?
I love that this is now going to be a punchline!
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Old 13th September 2017, 04:56 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Ah, yes. Once again let's not blame those who put Trump into office. Let's blame Hillary for not winning!
Clinton threw 1.2 billion Dollars at that campaign.

It is common knowledge that money doesn't win elections by now as had been demonstrated in Europe where the vacuous and populist Five Star movement won big in Italy by populist talking points, social media, and rallies, rallies, rallies. All on a shoestring budget.

Clinton was an unfortunate choice, she didn't get her message across, her social media campaign was stale* and most importantly: she did not engage with people IRL enough.

*Though I'll admit that she was hampered by having a political history, which allowed her opponents to disrupt her Twitter campaign by rehashing past mistakes and irregularities.

In communication, you never blame the audience if they didn't "get" your message. You blame yourself.

Obama did so well in all those areas. it's shocking that the same party could botch it this badly.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:02 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I'm with you on everything but that bit. Before the nomination, Trump practically owned the airwaves, for free. After the nomination, Trump had the conservative echo chamber cheering him on without pretense of providing balance. Trump was not hurting for media support.
I half agree. They gave him air time alright!

It's a mean trick: If you say dangerous things, obvious contradictions, insults, the media have no choice but to report on it, even if it's unsympathetic.

And also, unfortunately: 20% of your population lover crude over-the-top comments and trolling.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:09 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Clinton was an unfortunate choice, she didn't get her message across, her social media campaign was stale* and most importantly: she did not engage with people IRL enough.
I can't disagree with that. However the blame for Trump lies with the people who voted for him, imo.

Quote:
*Though I'll admit that she was hampered by having a political history, which allowed her opponents to disrupt her Twitter campaign by rehashing past mistakes and irregularities.
And also making some out of whole cloth.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:14 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
"Al of th est."

No.

These idiots are the same white supremacists that claimed Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman, despite the overwhelming opposite.

Get over it. These guys are white supremacists, they will do what they see as best for the white race.
Going to be off-topic I imagine, but I followed the Zimmerman trial extremely closely, and I think it is extremely likely that Martin confronted Zimmerman, suckerpunched him, and then started grounding and pounding him MMA style. One doesn't have to be a white supremacist to follow the evidence and logic presented at trial.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:21 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I'm with you on everything but that bit. Before the nomination, Trump practically owned the airwaves, for free. After the nomination, Trump had the conservative echo chamber cheering him on without pretense of providing balance. Trump was not hurting for media support.
Trump got media support in the primaries. That was in part what enabled him to beat a pretty strong field of candidates. By the time of the general election, however, the MSM had turned against him pretty hard, just as it does to all Republican nominees (see, e.g., John McCain and Mitt Romney). It's true that Trump had the support of niche media markets (e.g. Breitbart, various bloggers, and Sean Hannity on Fox), but the dominant media narrative was that Trump was unfit for office (which, admittedly, is true from a certain perspective). Furthermore, the media lost interest in the Clinton Foundation, her record as Secretary of State, and even her email shenanigans, and focused relentlessly on Trump's flaws. There were plenty of stories digging into Trump's background, including the uncovering of the audio of his sexist banter with Billy Bush. There was no interest in revisiting any of Hillary's past scandals. Or even her health. The MSM refused to ask any questions about her health until she fainted in public, despite the fact that she was hacking up a storm throughout most of the campaign.
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Old 13th September 2017, 05:23 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Trump got media support in the primaries. That was in part what enabled him to beat a pretty strong field of candidates.
Strong? Aside from Cruz, who had enough support to theoretically beat him?

Quote:
Going to be off-topic I imagine, but I followed the Zimmerman trial extremely closely, and I think it is extremely likely that Martin confronted Zimmerman, suckerpunched him, and then started grounding and pounding him MMA style. One doesn't have to be a white supremacist to follow the evidence and logic presented at trial.
It's also extremely likely that Zimmerman was gung-ho enough to initiate the confrontation and found himself on the wrong end of a beating he started. We just don't know, hence why Zim is not in jail.
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Old 13th September 2017, 06:20 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Strong? Aside from Cruz, who had enough support to theoretically beat him?



It's also extremely likely that Zimmerman was gung-ho enough to initiate the confrontation and found himself on the wrong end of a beating he started. We just don't know, hence why Zim is not in jail.
Exactly it doesn't matter who starts a fight, losing it after stalking some person of the wrong color in your neighborhood is enough to justify killing them. After all no right thinking american wants black people in their neighborhoods. Make america white again.
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Old 13th September 2017, 06:22 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Trump got media support in the primaries. That was in part what enabled him to beat a pretty strong field of candidates. By the time of the general election, however, the MSM had turned against him pretty hard, just as it does to all Republican nominees (see, e.g., John McCain and Mitt Romney). It's true that Trump had the support of niche media markets (e.g. Breitbart, various bloggers, and Sean Hannity on Fox),
That is almost exactly what I said, except I think you are underestimating the size of the conservative media echo chamber.
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Old 13th September 2017, 06:28 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Trump got media support in the primaries. That was in part what enabled him to beat a pretty strong field of candidates. By the time of the general election, however, the MSM had turned against him pretty hard, just as it does to all Republican nominees (see, e.g., John McCain and Mitt Romney). It's true that Trump had the support of niche media markets (e.g. Breitbart, various bloggers, and Sean Hannity on Fox), but the dominant media narrative was that Trump was unfit for office (which, admittedly, is true from a certain perspective). Furthermore, the media lost interest in the Clinton Foundation, her record as Secretary of State, and even her email shenanigans, and focused relentlessly on Trump's flaws. There were plenty of stories digging into Trump's background, including the uncovering of the audio of his sexist banter with Billy Bush. There was no interest in revisiting any of Hillary's past scandals. Or even her health. The MSM refused to ask any questions about her health until she fainted in public, despite the fact that she was hacking up a storm throughout most of the campaign.

Funny how you're never quite definitive when you have a negative comment about your fuhrer. But positive? Oh, that's all rock-solid. "NO evidence for collusion"

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Old 13th September 2017, 07:03 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Going to be off-topic I imagine, but I followed the Zimmerman trial extremely closely, and I think it is extremely likely that Martin confronted Zimmerman, suckerpunched him, and then started grounding and pounding him MMA style. One doesn't have to be a white supremacist to follow the evidence and logic presented at trial.
Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 12

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Old 13th September 2017, 09:07 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I don't mean if you can work with a Trump voter. Or be civil with them. I believe with time I could work with a Trump voter and be civil with them too.

But I have real doubts I will ever be able to forgive them. Deep down I'm just sort of thinking there will always be a sort of seething anger. I'm not sure if it is a sense of betrayal or what. I know it isn't healthy. I'll admit that. But I'm also a realist that knows that not everything that goes on in my head is healthy.

But what about you? Does it matter at all to you that someone voted in favor of so many unconscionable views and actions? Can you just look right past their choice?

Personally I feel that whatever my feelings I have to try and work with them. I'm not sure how but the other options sure don't look good for the whole nation in the long term.
I still haven't forgiven the Bush voters from 2000. Mind you I'm not talking about the base. They are what they are. I'm talking about the small number of swing voters who have a choice to make and who push them just over 50% (or "just enough in the right places" in the recent example). Also the people who don't vote, especially the young ones.

Of course I don't treat them any differently even when I know them. I'm just filled with incredulity. The same feeling I get from the well educated physicians I know who think evolution isn't real.

PS I think they feel the same about us.
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Old 13th September 2017, 09:26 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by MuDPhuD View Post
I still haven't forgiven the Bush voters from 2000. Mind you I'm not talking about the base. They are what they are. I'm talking about the small number of swing voters who have a choice to make and who push them just over 50% (or "just enough in the right places" in the recent example). Also the people who don't vote, especially the young ones.

Of course I don't treat them any differently even when I know them.
Well, I think the cat's out of the bag now. Swing voters in swing states can probably assume that 16.5 million Americans hate their guts and always will. It'll be interesting to see what they do with that information over the next four years.
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Old 13th September 2017, 09:29 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Well, I think the cat's out of the bag now. Swing voters in swing states can probably assume that 16.5 million Americans hate their guts and always will. It'll be interesting to see what they do with that information over the next four years.
Hate to tell you kiddo, but they probably hate themselves more after this fiasco.
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Old 13th September 2017, 09:31 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Well, I think the cat's out of the bag now. Swing voters in swing states can probably assume that 16.5 million Americans hate their guts and always will. It'll be interesting to see what they do with that information over the next four years.
I didn't say I hated them, only that I can't forgive them. I have a hard time seeing their perspective. Same as with my trans sibling. Just can't quite see things from his/her point of view, and I think never will.
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Old 13th September 2017, 09:32 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Thread title:
Will you ever forgive Trump voters?

=

Help me bash your fellow ISF members who were Trump voters.

This thread is disgusting. It exists solely to point fingers and trash talk your fellow posters. Do you get off on this? The posts in it are so bad the whole thread should be moderated into the garbage.

I have been to some other skeptic political sites recently and though this one is possibly the largest, it takes the cake for being the rudest. No contest.

The thread title alone should clue the moderators that it does not belong here. Anywhere. The personal attacks here at this site are out of control, in my opinion.
This
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Old 13th September 2017, 09:34 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I know one, if you're interested.


Need a safe space?
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Old 13th September 2017, 09:39 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Do you?

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Old 13th September 2017, 09:40 AM   #275
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Old 13th September 2017, 09:48 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
"Toads like soda"
They do?

That's fascinating.
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Old 13th September 2017, 09:51 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Why do I all need to get woke on Hillary's latest venture? She's nothing. Not running again (thank FSM)

The only ones who truly care about Hillary are you people with your ignorant, ill informed vendetta. You guys gotta get over it.
At least the decades of lies paid off.
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Old 13th September 2017, 10:09 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
At least the decades of lies paid off.
They sure did. Funny thing is they're still at it.

And still they persisted?
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Old 13th September 2017, 10:13 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Y'all need to get woke on Hillary's latest venture:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=322809
She endorsed it, but it isn't her venture.

Sounds like a silly venture, worthy of mockery. Not as bad as an administration that is associated with "real news" on facebook, but worthy of mockery nonetheless.
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Old 13th September 2017, 11:02 AM   #280
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It's easy. Trump won. Get over it.......
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