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Old 22nd September 2017, 07:20 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
black men are the Irish people of black people.

Irish person: wtf does that mean?
Smarmy black writer: it isn't about you, Captain O'McSnowflake.

fin
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Old 22nd September 2017, 08:05 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
So yeah. Four pages in. I'm not surprised it went downhill, but I am surprised at the direction. What we've got here is an article about male privilege... that has prompted a thread in defense of white men. The entire argument is now about race. So... where does that leave women? Let alone black women? I guess our perspectives just don't count... again.
Say something interesting and maybe people will give a ****.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 12:03 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
But man, what would the use of me bring race into it be? I could say some Asians, some natives, some white people, on down the line. It does nothing to add to the issue of stopping crime.
You're missing the point. The entire point of the title is to literally pointing out the hypocrisy of straight black men who do this to black women and black LGBT. It's these guys who complain, specifically, about white people doing the same to them. Casual language if full of examples of people making generalizations - people often drop the "some" or "most".

(and as for why? Because people notice "race" in the US, despite it being a fluid concept.)
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Old 23rd September 2017, 07:15 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
You're missing the point. The entire point of the title is to literally pointing out the hypocrisy of straight black men who do this to black women and black LGBT. It's these guys who complain, specifically, about white people doing the same to them. Casual language if full of examples of people making generalizations - people often drop the "some" or "most".

(and as for why? Because people notice "race" in the US, despite it being a fluid concept.)
So what we have shown is that it's not a racial issue, white people do it (btw I do agrew that there are a large amount of ****** guys out there, just not that all of us should pay for it) black people do it, Asians do it etc. We could combat the problem better by focusing not on skin color but the underlying concepts that cause misogyny.

That is my problem, this garbage hurts the cause it is trying to support.

Think of it this way, what if someone found out that harsh work conditions caused a decrease in a certain disease. Do you think the article that said this would gain much traction if it was titled "why slavery is awesome"?
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Old 23rd September 2017, 07:43 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
So what we have shown is that it's not a racial issue, white people do it (btw I do agrew that there are a large amount of ****** guys out there, just not that all of us should pay for it) black people do it, Asians do it etc. We could combat the problem better by focusing not on skin color but the underlying concepts that cause misogyny.

That is my problem, this garbage hurts the cause it is trying to support.

Think of it this way, what if someone found out that harsh work conditions caused a decrease in a certain disease. Do you think the article that said this would gain much traction if it was titled "why slavery is awesome"?
Really? I thought the title captured the content of the piece in a creative way.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 08:07 AM   #166
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Interesting article.

It resonated with experiences I had in my younger years about domestic violence. I was part of a campaigning group for gay rights for sometime (it was just about when the "L" was being added) and we had someone from one of nascent shelters for women giving us a talk and in the discussion that followed one of our more vocal campaigners - who was a lesbian - was shocked to learn that a few people currently in the shelter were victims of abuse by their female partners. For her this was a revelation about domestic abuse, she just had never thought women could be domestic abusers as well as men. I clearly remember a few months later her speaking to a predominately lesbian crowd and there were comments from the floor about how violence was a male issue and she quickly came back with her new found knowledge.

Often it can take an "intervention" of some sort to get people to think about issues in a new way, the article did that well I think.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 09:56 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Interesting article.

It resonated with experiences I had in my younger years about domestic violence. I was part of a campaigning group for gay rights for sometime (it was just about when the "L" was being added) and we had someone from one of nascent shelters for women giving us a talk and in the discussion that followed one of our more vocal campaigners - who was a lesbian - was shocked to learn that a few people currently in the shelter were victims of abuse by their female partners. For her this was a revelation about domestic abuse, she just had never thought women could be domestic abusers as well as men. I clearly remember a few months later her speaking to a predominately lesbian crowd and there were comments from the floor about how violence was a male issue and she quickly came back with her new found knowledge.

Often it can take an "intervention" of some sort to get people to think about issues in a new way, the article did that well I think.
But your story is the exact opposite of the article. It is someone seeing that it is not a gender based issue but one of mindset. Whereas this article is using one crappy stereotype to enforce another.

The social work term for what this article is doing is called "othering" and it's a natural human reaction but toxic as hell.

But this is secondary to the main toxic thrust of this, using a group of people as an insult. It's not okay when someone calls something gay, it's not okay when someone says they got jewed, it's not okay when someone calls someone the n word in an online game (regardless of race), is not okay to call someone an Indian giver, it is not okay to call someone retarded. This **** is toxic, and it seems we can agree. ... except when it comes to using this type of language on the majority of the population.

I'm sorry we may differ, but I see pulling a knife during an arguement as crappy whether it is done to me, or to someone who could kick my ass.

If that analogy is to esoteric, let me put it a different way.


There are two types of people who get bullied, one who wants bullying to go away, and another that wishes their people were the ones who wielded that power. I know which one I am, and I cannot support the other just because they are wearing my team colors.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 11:11 AM   #168
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The title seems to be very offensive to you, try to put your feelings of offence to one side and read the article itself.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 12:01 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The title seems to be very offensive to you, try to put your feelings of offence to one side and read the article itself.
Or, alternatively, if the author doesn't want people to think the title is offensive and instead read the article, they should write a better title.

Also, aren't feelings of offense the whole point of this?
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Old 23rd September 2017, 01:16 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Or, alternatively, if the author doesn't want people to think the title is offensive and instead read the article, they should write a better title.
Well that's your opinion of course, or at least your opinion at the moment, may I remind you of:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Oh, it was absolutely meant as something negative. People who keep telling others how they should act so that they don't offend hypothetical people should be ridiculed ...snip...
But I get it you find the title offensive.

I actually don't know if you are the target audience (i.e. black, male and American) so I can't say whether you finding the title of the article offensive or not is relevant in assessing whether the title lessens the chances of the author getting his points over to his target audience.

Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post

Also, aren't feelings of offense the whole point of this?
With 100% sincerity I can not see how you get that from the article. The article is about misogyny (and worse) amongst the black male population in America.

I know something of the homophobia amongst black people in the UK towards other black people so the points the article makes don't come as that much of a surprise to me.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 01:52 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Well that's your opinion of course
You're a genius. How did you manage to see through my subterfuge and conclude that this was my opinion, I wonder?

Quote:
may I remind you of:
...and?

Quote:
But I get it you find the title offensive.
Where did I say that? You should know by now that I don't give much of a toss what people find offensive, which should inform you of how much of a toss I think people should give about what _I_ find offensive.

Quote:
With 100% sincerity I can not see how you get that from the article.
The point of the title and of the article is to shock and 'bother' in an attempt to make a point. Those are emotions. That was my point.
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Old 24th September 2017, 12:37 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
You're a genius. How did you manage to see through my subterfuge and conclude that this was my opinion, I wonder?



...and?



Where did I say that? You should know by now that I don't give much of a toss what people find offensive, which should inform you of how much of a toss I think people should give about what _I_ find offensive.



The point of the title and of the article is to shock and 'bother' in an attempt to make a point. Those are emotions. That was my point.
Have you read the article because you are simply not describing the point of the article in any shape or form . The point of the article is to use an experience common to many black male heterosexuals to get them to look again at the issue of misogyny etc. within their communities. It is an often used technique of persuasion and rhetoric that can be effective.
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Old 24th September 2017, 02:50 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Have you read the article because you are simply not describing the point of the article in any shape or form . The point of the article is to use an experience common to many black male heterosexuals to get them to look again at the issue of misogyny etc. within their communities. It is an often used technique of persuasion and rhetoric that can be effective.
Yes, but it's still one that relies on an emotional response from the reader.
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Old 24th September 2017, 04:12 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yes, but it's still one that relies on an emotional response from the reader.
And? Albeit it is a bit off topic but seriously what is wrong with trying for an "emotional response" to try and get people to re-examine how they think about something?

In a different thread I came across a comment that I think sums up what the author was trying to do and why he used the language he did (Delphic Oracle's words)

"... It hits closer to home. It aims to make the reader deal with the proposed psycho-social setting placed within the framework of a familiar physical setting. If both the ideology and location are foreign, the perspective is from "outside the fishbowl" so to speak. It doesn't challenge the reader to consider their own cognitive dissonance...."

How you frame arguments or use rhetoric is an interesting topic in its own right but I'd rather discuss the topic the author was talking about, have you any comments about that rather than how he made his arguments and points?
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Old 24th September 2017, 04:21 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I don't think that article treated white people as the enemy. I agree that treating any group of relatively privileged people as an enemy is counter-productive. The reference in this case helps to drive home the point that all privilege is relative, and that one group of un-privileged people can often have quite a lot of privilege relative to a different group. Most black people recognize that white privilege exists - the challenge is getting white people to also recognize that fact without getting defensive about it. I have no objection to the author using that resonance to extend the topic to another area where men are blind to the plight of women. That particular intersection of race and gender allows the audience (black men, not white people, btw) to have some empathy and find a common ground to face the fact that they too posses privilege, and that they too are blind to it.

Almost all of the privileges and the insecurities he highlights with respect to black women exist for women, regardless of race.The fear of being followed, the concern about rape, and the outrage of being told what a woman should have done to prevent herself from being abused - that's all true for women in general. But by appealing to the shared disparity of race, he creates a bridge for this particular subset of men who happen to also be black.
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
So yeah. Four pages in. I'm not surprised it went downhill, but I am surprised at the direction. What we've got here is an article about male privilege... that has prompted a thread in defense of white men. The entire argument is now about race. So... where does that leave women? Let alone black women? I guess our perspectives just don't count... again.
Hey some of us would rather discuss the what rather than the how of the article!

As I said earlier I've had experience of some of the homophobia in black communities towards homosexuals in general and towards black homosexuals. From that experience I would say that the negative response is far greater from some of those in the black communities towards black homosexuals than towards non-black homosexuals in general. I think finding a way of challenging that behaviour is important if there is to be a change for the good. (I understand there are similar issues within some other self defined minorities in my country.)

Cognitive dissonance is unfortunately something we are all prone to and can be a very difficult thing to tackle and I doubt there is just one right way but I've seen the type of approach the author is suggesting work with some people.

As ever until the people involved can be made to understand there is a problem with their behaviour nothing will change. Such change has to come from within a community.
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Old 24th September 2017, 12:26 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The title seems to be very offensive to you, try to put your feelings of offence to one side and read the article itself.
How familiar are you with the derogatory term whigger. If you've never heard the term, that's a plus I guess since it's been a few years since I heard that insult tossed about. (Progress?)
I think that might be the point sadhatter is getting at (but maybe not) likewise the term "cuck" that Bannon and his clowns throw out at their targets of disdain.
(PS: Thanks for sharing your experience. Most interesting).
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:06 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
That is my problem, this garbage hurts the cause it is trying to support.
How does it hurt the cause it's trying to support?
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:12 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
But your story is the exact opposite of the article. It is someone seeing that it is not a gender based issue but one of mindset. Whereas this article is using one crappy stereotype to enforce another.

The social work term for what this article is doing is called "othering" and it's a natural human reaction but toxic as hell.

But this is secondary to the main toxic thrust of this, using a group of people as an insult. It's not okay when someone calls something gay, it's not okay when someone says they got jewed, it's not okay when someone calls someone the n word in an online game (regardless of race), is not okay to call someone an Indian giver, it is not okay to call someone retarded. This **** is toxic, and it seems we can agree. ... except when it comes to using this type of language on the majority of the population.

I'm sorry we may differ, but I see pulling a knife during an arguement as crappy whether it is done to me, or to someone who could kick my ass.

If that analogy is to esoteric, let me put it a different way.


There are two types of people who get bullied, one who wants bullying to go away, and another that wishes their people were the ones who wielded that power. I know which one I am, and I cannot support the other just because they are wearing my team colors.
sadhatter, did you read the article itself? Or did you just stop at the title?

I understand your perspective... but it doesn't seem to apply here if you make it beyond the title. White people are neither the audience nor the subject of the article. 'White people' are used merely to analogize the situation and provide a common basis.

Seriously, it's like having a discussion where someone uses the metaphor that the Atheist Plus movement is the fundamentalism of nonbelieivers... and then a group of fundies gets offended by that. It's not about them in any way. It's a metaphor that speaks to a shared experience.

Unless, of course, you take the position that white people in general do not benefit more from US culture and history than other races do? If you'd like to take the position that the metaphor is inappropriate because dominant privilege doesn't exist, that's an entirely different discussion.
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:15 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Or, alternatively, if the author doesn't want people to think the title is offensive and instead read the article, they should write a better title.
The article isn't for you. You are not the audience. The audience is straight black men. White people are not the audience.

Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Also, aren't feelings of offense the whole point of this?
No. Did you actually read the article or did you get so offended on behalf of white men everywhere that you didn't make it beyond the title?
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:17 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
The point of the title and of the article is to shock and 'bother' in an attempt to make a point. Those are emotions. That was my point.
No, that's not the point. I genuinely don't think you read beyond the article. Or if you did, it seems you were so incensed by the title that you couldn't actually comprehend the article.
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:21 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
The article isn't for you. You are not the audience. The audience is straight black men. White people are not the audience.
And do you know how offensive white men find the idea that it isn't about them to be? Clearly very insulting and offensive.
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:36 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And? Albeit it is a bit off topic but seriously what is wrong with trying for an "emotional response" to try and get people to re-examine how they think about something?
What a strange question. Who said it was wrong?

Oh, right. You're the one who told Sadhatter to put his feelings aside.
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:41 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And do you know how offensive white men find the idea that it isn't about them to be? Clearly very insulting and offensive.
‘Straight Black Men Are The White People Of Black People’

It ain't about the white people mentioned prominently in the headline and throughout the article, you hear me Whitey?
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:41 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
The article isn't for you. You are not the audience. The audience is straight black men. White people are not the audience.
If my target is racists, is it okay to use the n-word? Or would I be rightly criticized for doing so? Who cares that the target audience is, if the quesiton is: is the statement racist or not?

Quote:
No. Did you actually read the article or did you get so offended on behalf of white men everywhere that you didn't make it beyond the title?
Who said I was offended?
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:49 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
‘Straight Black Men Are The White People Of Black People’

It ain't about the white people mentioned prominently in the headline and throughout the article, you hear me Whitey?
Absolutely right. They do not care what a white conservative thinks of their headlines or their articles. It's not addressed to you.

What's really funny is that the true skeptics are all on board with playing snowflake. "Ooooh, I'm so sensitive. You can't say that, it's racist! Don't you care that you're hurting someone's feelings?"

You'd all fit in at Atheism+
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Old 25th September 2017, 09:51 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And do you know how offensive white men find the idea that it isn't about them to be? Clearly very insulting and offensive.
Ain't it our right, as privileged white people, to express our disappointment with poorly executed articles? Does our privilege not extent to such things as being able to be offended?

I need to get a copy of this strange set of privileges that we have, just so I can stay ahead of the game on the various do's and don't's of us privileged white folks.

After all, I wouldn't want to put my foot in it by writing an article about car-thieves and drug-dealers with such an offensive title as Young Hispanic Men are the Black People of Hispanic People. Obviously, that would be racist.

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Old 25th September 2017, 10:05 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Absolutely right. They do not care what a white conservative thinks of their headlines or their articles. It's not addressed to you.

What's really funny is that the true skeptics are all on board with playing snowflake. "Ooooh, I'm so sensitive. You can't say that, it's racist! Don't you care that you're hurting someone's feelings?"

You'd all fit in at Atheism+
It is specious that an author can declare an article "not for you."

But what is really offensive to basic logic and facts is that our hero writes an article about black men's misogyny and then headlines it "Straight Black Men Are the White People of Black People" ignoring the fact that "white people" include "women."

Heck of a lesson there Damon!

Oh wait, it ain't addressed to white women either, is it?
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:05 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
If my target is racists, is it okay to use the n-word? Or would I be rightly criticized for doing so? Who cares that the target audience is, if the quesiton is: is the statement racist or not?
Step back and think about this a moment, would you? You (and a couple of others) have taken an article about misogyny and turned it into an argument about race.

Let me go back to my prior question: What does this mean for women's voices? Are we just being pushed aside yet again?

This is no longer a discussion about the issues that plague women, and the blindness of men who dismiss and ignore those issues. Instead, many of the men in this thread are busy making it about them and their hurt feelings because they got used as an example. Many of the men in this thread are so busy being blind to the issues that women face, and are so busy ignoring and dismissing those issues... that they can't even seem to comprehend that the article wasn't about race.

Right now, you are exhibiting the exact same willful ignorance and privilege that the author complained of. That you aren't (so far as I know) black, doesn't excuse you from it.
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:09 AM   #189
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So in five pages, we've got only a handful of posters who actually seem to understand the point of the article, and have actually commented on the prevalence of misogyny and anti-GLBTQ sentiment within the community to which the author belongs. Only a very small handful of posters seem to see this as a problem.

It seems most of the posters here have less concern about misogyny and anti-LGBTQ sentiment than they do about defending their whiteness from attack. Seriously, this would make more sense if you were defending your maleness- at least then it would somewhat be on topic
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:10 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Step back and think about this a moment, would you? You (and a couple of others) have taken an article about misogyny and turned it into an argument about race.

...

Right now, you are exhibiting the exact same willful ignorance and privilege that the author complained of. That you aren't (so far as I know) black, doesn't excuse you from it.
Straight Black Men Are the White People of Black People

Who turned it into an argument about race?
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:11 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Step back and think about this a moment, would you? You (and a couple of others) have taken an article about misogyny and turned it into an argument about race.
Oh, no. They made it about race by making that stupid statement.

If I have a cooking show, and I make a comment about Trump and his policies, have I not myself made my show political?

Quote:
What does this mean for women's voices? Are we just being pushed aside yet again?
What does that have to do with anything? Do you truly believe that pointing out that an article and its title are using language that cannot possibly bring attention to the issue they are trying to discuss means that we're ignoring this issue ourselves? That makes no sense.

Quote:
This is no longer a discussion about the issues that plague women, and the blindness of men who dismiss and ignore those issues.
It really never was. Read the OP.

Quote:
Right now, you are exhibiting the exact same willful ignorance and privilege that the author complained of.
Tell me, what does "privilege" has to do with my posts? Nothing, that's what. But that's the issue with social justice folks, if you disagree with their claims, that ipso facto means you're either a bigot or a victim of your own privilege. You couldn't possibly, you know, just disagree or --gasp-- be right.

Quote:
That you aren't (so far as I know) black, doesn't excuse you from it.
What does my skin colour have to do with any of this?
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:13 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Straight Black Men Are the White People of Black People

Who turned it into an argument about race?
People who didn't actually read the article, but just got pissed off about the title.
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:18 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
What does that have to do with anything? Do you truly believe that pointing out that an article and its title are using language that cannot possibly bring attention to the issue they are trying to discuss means that we're ignoring this issue ourselves? That makes no sense.
Well... seeing as you're ignoring the issue yourself... It seems to make a lot of sense.

Why don't you go ahead and make a post or two about male privilege and it's impact to women? Just, you know, engage on the actual point of the article, then you can go right back to your focus on skin color.
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:21 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Ain't it our right, as privileged white people, to express our disappointment with poorly executed articles? Does our privilege not extent to such things as being able to be offended?

I need to get a copy of this strange set of privileges that we have, just so I can stay ahead of the game on the various do's and don't's of us privileged white folks.
What specifically do you take issue with about white privilege, when living in a predominately white country? I see people dismiss it often out of hand, normally out of some defensive nature as if it diminishes their self worth.

I dislike when the 'privilege' talk expands far beyond what it entails, but I don't see a reason to dismiss it outright. A life is not easy because of privilege, just easier for certain aspects. Tall, hetero, male, non-disabled, white. Privileges. No big deal to admit them.

For example, I believe you've said your irish living in the UK. If you were applying for a job in Ireland, do you believe you being Irish would affect your employers decision to hire you? How about in the UK? It would be a higher possibility there, at the very least.

Why is it hard to look at the numbers and see the disparities in regards to loans, employment etc between black and white Americans and deduce that yes, there is a level of privilege involved.
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:23 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
People who didn't actually read the article, but just got pissed off about the title.
The problem is that so many people will instantly be put off reading any article with such an ignorant and needless title.

It's like me writing an insightful article about grooming and rape and calling it Debbie Literally Does All of Dallas, then wondering why everyone got so hung up about the title rather than the article.

There are many ways to get a point across and raise awareness, yet the author of the article decided on that?

Like I've said, if the shoe was on the other foot, we'd have plenty of complaints regarding a senseless and badly phrased headline.
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:23 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
People who didn't actually read the article, but just got pissed off about the title.
Swing and a miss.

The author did.

protip: don't write an email about black men treating women badly with a headline that says: ‘Straight Black Men Are The White People Of Black People’ because last I checked, white women and are white people too.

I know, it ain't about you Ms. Whitey O'Snowflake.

that headline isn't just *********** stupid it is misogynistic as hell too.
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:26 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Well... seeing as you're ignoring the issue yourself... It seems to make a lot of sense.
The thread is about the article as a whole, and most of the discussion has been about the tone and title of it. That's what I was addressing. I'm under no obligation to broach every single point of every topic of every thread I participate in.

Quote:
Why don't you go ahead and make a post or two about male privilege and it's impact to women?
Sure, here you go: the concept of male privilege itself is stupid. It's not only counter-productive as a point of conversation but it's also bunk as a general claim. It varies from one place to another but as a general rule women in the West are not oppressed or prevented from doing whatever they want. There.


I see you've also sidestepped my other points. Troublesome?
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:33 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
The problem is that so many people will instantly be put off reading any article with such an ignorant and needless title.

It's like me writing an insightful article about grooming and rape and calling it Debbie Literally Does All of Dallas, then wondering why everyone got so hung up about the title rather than the article.
But are they the people the article is written for? For the authors intent how does it matter if white people read it or not? It isn't written for them.

It would be like an article intended to prevent Muslim youth from becoming terrorists is palatable to Mormons. The people who seem to be most upset by it are totally outside the group it is talking about and addressing.
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:34 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
What specifically do you take issue with about white privilege, when living in a predominately white country? I see people dismiss it often out of hand, normally out of some defensive nature as if it diminishes their self worth.
I think it's purely an American invention to quell wrongfully placed guilt on the part of white people who have likely done nothing to harm their black neighbours, but harbour odd feelings about ignorance for something that happened long before they were born. What the hell are these privileges and how do they relate to a bloke from England?

Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
I dislike when the 'privilege' talk expands far beyond what it entails, but I don't see a reason to dismiss it outright. A life is not easy because of privilege, just easier for certain aspects. Tall, hetero, male, non-disabled, white. Privileges. No big deal to admit them.
Ah, so does that also count for tall, hetero male, non-disabled black guys? I'm sure you can ask the many successful black athletes out there that question.

Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
For example, I believe you've said your irish living in the UK. If you were applying for a job in Ireland, do you believe you being Irish would affect your employers decision to hire you? How about in the UK? It would be a higher possibility there, at the very least.
No idea what you're on about, tbh, mate. I'm from Liverpool, my great grandparents were Irish, but my parents are from Liverpool. I see a struggle for jobs from all walks of life, not merely for people of colour. I work in an industry packed full with men and women from all over the world. I don't see the statement about people from other countries finding it hard to work reflected in what I see in reality, which is people from all walks of life getting jobs, with just as many white people on the Dole as there is black people on it. The people who talk as though whites find it easier to get jobs have obviously never been in to a bloody Job Center in their life.

Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Why is it hard to look at the numbers and see the disparities in regards to loans, employment etc between black and white Americans and deduce that yes, there is a level of privilege involved.
Again, maybe this is the case in the USA, because I see no greater number of blacks than whites in the same situation. When I go into town, it's not even one minute before I see a white bloke laying on the floor with nothing but the clothes on his back, and people of all colours walk past him without so much as a glance. Maybe I should take the time to stop and ask him if he's checked his privilege...



These justice warriors do not live in the real world. In the real world, poverty has no colour. In my city, some of the poorest areas are predominantly white areas, an area like Gartson, home of the historic docks, has been an under-funded hellhole of unemployment and crime for a good many years. I see no privilege there.
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:36 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Sure, here you go: the concept of male privilege itself is stupid. It's not only counter-productive as a point of conversation but it's also bunk as a general claim. It varies from one place to another but as a general rule women in the West are not oppressed or prevented from doing whatever they want. There.
Exactly, sexism does not exist and has no negative impact on any woman at all.
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