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Old 25th September 2017, 12:39 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Again, you assume that these individuals have problems of this sort, without any evidence to back it up.
I think it is quite clear that they know better than to complain about such treatment to you. They read quite correctly what your reactions would be.
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:42 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
I doubt it. It's more likely that you're delusional, or lying. You think you're experiencing these things because you already believe they exist. People "see" UFOs, ghosts and demons for the same reason.
Wow. That's... incredibly offensive.

How about you back up your "doubt" with some supporting evidence other than an accusation of mental disorder and/or dishonesty?
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:43 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
My issue is that what we see in our own day-to-day lives does not seem to reflect this notion that white people are given preferential treatment above people of colour.
Translation: Your personal anecdotal experience doesn't agree with the peer-reviewed research, therefore the research is wrong.
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:44 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I've never seen any person of colour being harassed or given a hard time in their quest for employment, though.

I've seen far worse treatment of people with dyslexia and learning difficulties, whether black or white, than I have of people of colour being mistreated or talked about in a rude manner.
Privilege doesn't mean mistreatment or rudeness. Racial privilege isn't the same as racism.
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:47 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
When I walk into a store, nobody looks at me with suspicion. Everyone assumes I'm a well-meaning person until I do something wrong. I have observed the opposite reaction when my father or sister, or my aunts and uncles, nephews and nieces enter a store.
That's interesting, because I actually work for a company who provides such shops with security, and I can tell you, they're not looking for anything in particular other than odd behaviour. I know for a fact that white kids draw attention to themselves in such environments by wearing a hoodie, or by going in in small groups. Security aren't looking for a specific thing, because thieves are generally not identifiable by their clothes or their skin-colour. I have to say that the "I can go in shops and not raise suspicion" example is a poor one, considering the fact that I know for certain that "scallies" and "chavs" draw as much suspicion as anyone, regardless of skin-colour. Black people shop just fine on a daily basis. I see no actual evidence that innocent, well-meaning black people are being harassed in their local Tesco.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
When I go into a police station and ask the clerk a question, they don't assume I'm a criminal. They assume my friend was a criminal there for a trial.
I can't take this seriously, because I know for a fact that black and Asian people can and have gone into police stations to report crimes and not be questioned suspiciously, and I've actually seen them do it.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
When I apply for a loan or mortgage, I'm assumed to be financially responsible prior to the loan officer finding out my credit score. They never react with surprise when they find out how good my score is now; when I was younger and had bad credit, they did act surprised to find out that it was so low - then they offered suggestions on how to improve it and what they could do for me as a work-around. I have observed the opposite reaction when it was my sister applying.
Generally, if you have good credit, the bank or loan company don't give a monkey's uncle what colour you are. No bank is going to turn down a loan, and turn down a profit, because of skin-colour. Such an idea is almost bordering on conspiracy theory.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
If I or my spouse are pulled over by the cops, we're likely to get off with a warning. Even if I get a ticket, the chances of my car being searched are pretty much negligible. My husband gets off scott free all the time for no good reason at all. My brother in law gets tickets for massively smaller infractions.
Again, this doesn't reflect reality. I know plenty of white people who have had their car searched because the police were on the look-out for white people meeting their general description. The Matrix task-force in Liverpool routinely pull over white people due to a suspicion of gang associations and drug-dealing. I have been stopped and questioned so many times by the police because I have a skinhead and sometimes like to wear a hoodie. The concept that only black people are pulled over or stopped is so false that I can't even begin to understand why people say such things. I can only assume that you live in a very wealthy area. In reality, in major cities, the police are not on the lookout for any type of colour, because criminals come in all shapes, colours and sizes.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
When I get to the counter at a store and realize I forgot my wallet, nobody assumes I'm trying to get away with something.
Likewise, when black people get to the counter in a store and realize they forgot their wallet, nobody assumes they're trying to get away with something.

I've seen white people apprehended by security staff for simply wearing a hoodie or looking shifty, lol. This idea that white people are free to roam without suspicion is not reflected in reality.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
ETA: It's incredibly easy to find a doll or action figure that looks 'like me'.
Seriously? Is that a joke? From superheroes to wrestling figures, to dolls, to sporting memorabilia, to cartoon characters, black people are depicted everywhere, lol.

The WWE alone has black action-figures coming out of their arse and ears, with a new one being put out each week.
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:47 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Wow. That's... incredibly offensive.
True believers are always offended by uncomfortable truths. Christians get offended when I doubt thier claims too.

Quote:
How about you back up your "doubt" with some supporting evidence other than an accusation of mental disorder and/or dishonesty?
This is a skeptic website, the burden is on you to back up your claims.
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:52 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
But why is it that every time I ask for a list of examples for this privilege, that I get nothing but tumbleweeds in response?
That would be because you're ridiculously impatient. Less than an hour elapsed. I have other things to do in my life. Perhaps you could try googling some on your own. It's not really hard to find... if you actually want to find it, of course.
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:56 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Translation: Your personal anecdotal experience doesn't agree with the peer-reviewed research, therefore the research is wrong.
I'm talking about what I've seen and what others have seen, something with actual real-world details to back it up.

When you talk about black people going into stores and raising suspicion, you're not talking about it from any aspect of reality. You're basically reading regurgitated articles in which people outline "white privilege" and are blindly repeating it here.

Your examples that you listed are all ones straight from the internet, and it's funny to see that you've plucked them out as being in any way valid.

The one about not seeing any black dolls is a giveaway, seeing as anyone who actually lives in the real world would know that some of the biggest selling toys on the planet are plastic depictions of black people.

The "New Day" wrestling tag-team are a highly popular figure series, with a new set being put out every other month, sometimes only differing slightly in their ring-attire from the previous incarnations.

Some of the biggest names in sports are black men and women. Right now, there's literally no bigger black man in British sports than Anthony Joshua, and likewise, the richest and most well-known athletes in the US are black men like Tiger Woods and Floyd Mayweather.

I simply cannot take such nonsense seriously when you have people saying that you can't easily find black action figures, when all you need to do is go into your local comic-book shop and see shelves stacked with such black action-figures.
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:57 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Privilege doesn't mean mistreatment or rudeness. Racial privilege isn't the same as racism.
No two people who support this odd "privilege" thing can seem to agree on what it is or what it does. It's almost like you're making it up as you go...
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:59 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
That would be because you're ridiculously impatient. Less than an hour elapsed. I have other things to do in my life. Perhaps you could try googling some on your own. It's not really hard to find... if you actually want to find it, of course.

Who said I was talking about you? lol. I was talking in general, to anyone who promotes such nonsense as "white privilege." Considering your post-count and join-date compared to mine, you seem to have less to do than I, Emily.
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:59 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I'm talking about what I've seen and what others have seen, something with actual real-world details to back it up.
You're talking about what you've seen, and what others like you have seen. And you're ignoring and dismissing what people not like you have personally experienced. You are accepting your personal experience as being the norm, and you're discounting claims that other people's experience isn't like yours.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:00 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Seriously? Is that a joke? From superheroes to wrestling figures, to dolls, to sporting memorabilia, to cartoon characters, black people are depicted everywhere, lol.

The WWE alone has black action-figures coming out of their arse and ears, with a new one being put out each week.
It goes to show how racist they are. Only being able to empathize with people/things that reflect their skin color. I've never had a doll that "looked like
Me" (I don't define "look like me" to be someone of the same skin color like the racists do) and it never bothered me. A doll (or action figure in my case) having a different skin color or hair color than me never kept me from empathizing with or identifying with the character the were supposed to represent.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:02 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
It goes to show how racist they are. Only being able to empathize with people/things that reflect their skin color. I've never had a doll that "looked like
Me" (I don't define "look like me" to be someone of the same skin color like the racists do) and it never bothered me. A doll (or action figure in my case) having a different skin color or hair color than me never kept me from empathizing with or identifying with the character the were supposed to represent.
Everything about it just screams "I'm struggling to think of examples of white privilege," lol.

Being somewhat of a nerd for old toys and memorabilia, I can state with 100% certainty that the idea that black people are not depicted in plastic is nothing short of absolute bollocks.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:05 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
You're talking about what you've seen, and what others like you have seen. And you're ignoring and dismissing what people not like you have personally experienced. You are accepting your personal experience as being the norm, and you're discounting claims that other people's experience isn't like yours.
The thing is, you're posting examples of privilege without even knowing if those examples are true. Who goes into a police station to report a crime and instead gets questioned because of their skin-colour?

Yeah, I'm talking about my experiences and those of people around me, because we all live in the big wide world, and not on an internet forum where hypothetical scenarios are given more weight than real-life scenarios.

You're also blatantly ignoring the fact that I've given many examples in which those things apply to white people, like getting pulled over, searched, questioned, etc.

Why is it that you're unwilling to accept that such things are not exclusive to black people?
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:07 PM   #295
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Let's do a couple of quick informal polls...

Does racial privilege exist in the US?

Does gender privilege exist in the US?
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:08 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Everything about it just screams "I'm struggling to think of examples of white privilege," lol.

Being somewhat of a nerd for old toys and memorabilia, I can state with 100% certainty that the idea that black people are not depicted in plastic is nothing short of absolute bollocks.
Exactly. But really, it shouldn't even matter, the issue of "representation" is total ********. It further shows how warped they are to claim white dolls are a "privilege". What they're really saying is that they would feel privileged if there were more dolls that had the same skin color as them and less dolls of people with different skin colors.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:09 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
The thing is, you're posting examples of privilege without even knowing if those examples are true. Who goes into a police station to report a crime and instead gets questioned because of their skin-colour?

Yeah, I'm talking about my experiences and those of people around me, because we all live in the big wide world, and not on an internet forum where hypothetical scenarios are given more weight than real-life scenarios.

You're also blatantly ignoring the fact that I've given many examples in which those things apply to white people, like getting pulled over, searched, questioned, etc.

Why is it that you're unwilling to accept that such things are not exclusive to black people?
That would be because nobody at all has claimed they were EXCLUSIVE to black people. Only that they're more prevalent.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:09 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
If you're speaking purely based on evidence, then why did you make the odd claim that black people can't find their likeness in the toy industry?
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:10 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
If you're speaking purely based on evidence, then why did you make the odd claim that black people can't find their likeness in the toy industry?
Show me where I made that claim.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:12 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
That would be because nobody at all has claimed they were EXCLUSIVE to black people. Only that they're more prevalent.
But are they? I've seen no evidence that they are more prevalent, Emily.

I only need to open up the newspaper to see just how many white people fall shy of the law, and most nights on busy roads I can see plenty of white people being pulled over by the police.

If you think that the police are so utterly bigoted and daft as to ignore possible criminals in favour of stopping a black man whom they know is innocent, then you have a very embarrassingly mistaken view on the police and how they do their jobs.

If I am in Manchester, my accent alone arouses some suspicion in people, and I'm white. These nonsensical privileges are entirely invented for the sake of it.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:14 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Show me where I made that claim.
Emily, you know what you said, and either way you cut it, what you said was pure drivel, because there are countless toy lines that feature black people, and I've given you some examples. Do you still stand by what you said, despite now knowing it was misinformed?
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:17 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Emily, you know what you said, and either way you cut it, what you said was pure drivel, because there are countless toy lines that feature black people, and I've given you some examples. Do you still stand by what you said, despite now knowing it was misinformed?
I stand by it knowing that it was misread.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:22 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I stand by it knowing that it was misread.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, Emily, but this post kind of implies that you're suggesting it's harder for black people to find a doll or action figure that looks like them:

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
It's incredibly easy to find a doll or action figure that looks 'like me'.
As I've pointed out, there are countless successful toy-lines that feature black people, and thus this suggestion made by you seems rather misinformed.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:28 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
If I am in Manchester, my accent alone arouses some suspicion in people, and I'm white. These nonsensical privileges are entirely invented for the sake of it.
So Manc privilege is real, because it happened to you, it's all the others that are made up?
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:31 PM   #305
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white woman are the Mancs of white people

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Old 25th September 2017, 01:37 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
So Manc privilege is real, because it happened to you, it's all the others that are made up?
I suppose it's too difficult for you to imagine that people see the world differently.

Pro tip: Not everyone takes a "whaaaa privilege is everywhere and I'm oppressed" posture towards the world.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:44 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Because you ignore the examples given. I gave you links to sources showing that whites have an easier time getting jobs, and you hand waved it away. So why should I expect you to treat any further evidence seriously?

It is clear, your gut says that racism does not disadvantage people, and no amount of evidence will dissuade you. Why should I waste my time trying then?
And where those links examples of this so-called privilege in the UK? I've seen no supporting evidence for the examples I've been given here, PT.

The one's I have been given have all been shown to be demonstrably false at best, and laughable at worst.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:48 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Guybrush Threepwood View Post
So Manc privilege is real, because it happened to you, it's all the others that are made up?
I hope that was a joke. My point was that such utterly vague examples of people coming under suspicion is something that is not exclusive to black people.

Generally, in predominantly white areas, or in an instance where a white man has committed a crime, you tend to see white people being pulled over or searched.

The police do not spend their time pulling innocent people over for the sheer hell of it. They do it because they're going on details given pertaining to a suspect. If said suspect is black, they'll pull over a black guy, not some Chinese kid.

Having been searched, pulled over, and having seen it being done more times than I've had hot dinners, I can state that the notion that this happens more to black people is surely plucked from the arse, as opposed to being plucked from reality.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:49 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, Emily, but this post kind of implies that you're suggesting it's harder for black people to find a doll or action figure that looks like them:

As I've pointed out, there are countless successful toy-lines that feature black people, and thus this suggestion made by you seems rather misinformed.
Yes, they exist. In the US, they don't exist in a comparable proportion. It can be hard to find dolls that aren't white. Perhaps the are you live in is more diverse, or perhaps the UK has made better progress on this front than the US has done. Don't assume that your experience in the UK is the same as the experience in the US. For consideration:

http://www.musingmomma.com/2013/12/r...-kids-see.html

I remember going on shopping expeditions with my mom when I was about 7, trying to find a baby doll for my sister. Nearly all of the baby dolls were white with blond hair and blue eyes. Sometimes you'd find a white doll with brown eyes. That wasn't such a stretch for me - brunette with green eyes, at least they got the hair right. But trying to find a brown doll with curly black hair was very difficult. We eventually found one, but it took several stops and catalogs before we did. My sister loved that doll - it was her in miniature.

That was over 30 years ago, and there's been a lot of progress made... but even 10 years ago it was a challenge. My niece was big into Barbie dolls... and while Barbie technically has 'black' dolls, what they actually have is their boiler-plate white doll with medium brown skin and straight dark brown hair and light brown eyes. We had to go out of our way, and occasionally special order Barbies that actually looked different - and they were all from their international princess line. So they ended up really only associating different ethnic looks with foreigners, not with Americans.

Another 10 years has passed... but the same issue is still there. Some lines that specialize and emphasize diversity do a better job. But a huge number of brands still make white dolls as the standard, with very little in terms of diversity available. And even when that diversity exists, it's difficult to find a dark-skinned doll with kinky hair.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:57 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Yes, they exist. In the US, they don't exist in a comparable proportion. It can be hard to find dolls that aren't white. Perhaps the are you live in is more diverse, or perhaps the UK has made better progress on this front than the US has done. Don't assume that your experience in the UK is the same as the experience in the US. For consideration:

http://www.musingmomma.com/2013/12/r...-kids-see.html
Emily, some of the biggest toy-lines of the last few decades have included black men and women. From GI Joe, to Ghostbusters, to wrestling figures, to superhero figures/dolls, etc, etc.

In the USA, some of the best-selling toys on the market all feature black people. On the other hand, I don't see many Chinese depictions, so I think maybe the black toys are seeing a privilege that the Chinese toys aren't.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I remember going on shopping expeditions with my mom when I was about 7, trying to find a baby doll for my sister. Nearly all of the baby dolls were white with blond hair and blue eyes. Sometimes you'd find a white doll with brown eyes. That wasn't such a stretch for me - brunette with green eyes, at least they got the hair right. But trying to find a brown doll with curly black hair was very difficult. We eventually found one, but it took several stops and catalogs before we did. My sister loved that doll - it was her in miniature.

That was over 30 years ago, and there's been a lot of progress made... but even 10 years ago it was a challenge. My niece was big into Barbie dolls... and while Barbie technically has 'black' dolls, what they actually have is their boiler-plate white doll with medium brown skin and straight dark brown hair and light brown eyes. We had to go out of our way, and occasionally special order Barbies that actually looked different - and they were all from their international princess line. So they ended up really only associating different ethnic looks with foreigners, not with Americans.
My own mum had a black baby doll from a very early age, and she still has it stored away to this day. Those Bratz dolls for girls all feature black versions, and they were selling like hot-cakes.


Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Another 10 years has passed... but the same issue is still there. Some lines that specialize and emphasize diversity do a better job. But a huge number of brands still make white dolls as the standard, with very little in terms of diversity available. And even when that diversity exists, it's difficult to find a dark-skinned doll with kinky hair.
I can honestly say that I've seen no particular gaping hole in black action-figures, and I'd actually state that in terms of a massively popular line as the WWE toys, certain black wrestler's seem to be selling better than certain white one's.

It's not difficult to find a dark-skinned doll. I literally just typed "uk dark-skinned doll" into Google and was given thousands of hits for dolls with dark skin that can be bought from many places including Smyths Toys and Toys R Us.
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Old 25th September 2017, 02:05 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Emily, some of the biggest toy-lines of the last few decades have included black men and women. From GI Joe, to Ghostbusters, to wrestling figures, to superhero figures/dolls, etc, etc.

In the USA, some of the best-selling toys on the market all feature black people. On the other hand, I don't see many Chinese depictions, so I think maybe the black toys are seeing a privilege that the Chinese toys aren't.
I just googled "black dolls" and found many companies that specialize in black dolls. But further than that, I found multiple pages on both WalMart's and Target's websites that had black dolls in many shapes and sizes.

This seems to suggest that finding a black doll isn't hard.

I guess the progressive thing to do is to base your view on one store in one city (like the lady in the blog). I tend to take a broader approach.
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Old 25th September 2017, 02:13 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
It goes to show how racist they are. Only being able to empathize with people/things that reflect their skin color. I've never had a doll that "looked like
Me" (I don't define "look like me" to be someone of the same skin color like the racists do) and it never bothered me. A doll (or action figure in my case) having a different skin color or hair color than me never kept me from empathizing with or identifying with the character the were supposed to represent.

[bold mine]
That's actually quite an excellent point, and one I've tried to make in meatspace to people when arguing about this whole 'representation' thing in movies, TV, etc. I didn't watch Predator and immediately feel like that was me up there on screen because I have the same skin and hair color as Arnold. Both characters, Dutch and Dylan, were such bulked up slabs of man meat that their skin color didn't make one of them 'look like me' in any reasonable sense, when either one looked like they were sporting more muscle mass in their left ass cheeks than I had overall.

Closest I've come to seeing 'hey, that's me' in a movie was when that short alien reached greedily for his drink at the bar in the original Star Wars ...
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Old 25th September 2017, 02:45 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
[bold mine]
That's actually quite an excellent point, and one I've tried to make in meatspace to people when arguing about this whole 'representation' thing in movies, TV, etc. I didn't watch Predator and immediately feel like that was me up there on screen because I have the same skin and hair color as Arnold. Both characters, Dutch and Dylan, were such bulked up slabs of man meat that their skin color didn't make one of them 'look like me' in any reasonable sense, when either one looked like they were sporting more muscle mass in their left ass cheeks than I had overall.

Closest I've come to seeing 'hey, that's me' in a movie was when that short alien reached greedily for his drink at the bar in the original Star Wars ...
Yeah. Some years ago, my girl friend snapped a quick pic of a group that included me sitting around a camp. We'd been swimming, I was in shorts, no shirt, wet, and I was twisted around reaching for something or other. I looked at that picture, and thought "God, I look just like Gollum!"

Looking on the bright side, though, I guess I really can say that there's a "doll or action figure that looks 'like me'".
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Old 25th September 2017, 03:15 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I'm still waiting for 5 examples of this privilege that is apparently coursing through my veins.

Surely, as a white, privileged, straight male, I deserve to see these examples... Or said privilege counts for naught.
Jeez, where to start. Since you will handwave away anyhow, lets see how this goes..

In the Justice System:

Harsher sentencing

Quote:
On average, blacks receive almost 10% longer sentences than comparable whites arrested for the same crimes. At least half this gap can be explained by initial charging choices, particularly the filing of charges carrying mandatory minimum sentences. Prosecutors are, ceteris paribus, almost twice as likely to file such charges against blacks.

In Schools:

Harsher discipline

Quote:
According to Education Department analysis of other civil rights data it also unveiled today, black and Hispanic students face disproportionate levels of discipline—more than 70 percent of students arrested or referred to law enforcement were Hispanic or black, as one example. Black students were 3 ˝ times more likely to be expelled than their white peers. And while black students represented 21 percent of students with disabilities in the data analyzed, they represented 44 percent of students who were subjected to mechanical restraint.

For Loans:

Higher interest rates

Quote:
Overall, 17.8 percent of white borrowers were given higher-priced mortgages when borrowing from large banks in 2006, yet 30.9 percent of Hispanics and a staggering 41.5 percent of African Americans got higher-priced mortgages…Among high-income borrowers in 2006, African Americans were three times as likely as whites to pay higher prices for mortgages — 32.1 percent compared to 10.5 percent. Hispanics were nearly as likely as African Americans to pay higher prices for their mortgages at 29.1 percent.

Wage Gap:

80% as much as white men

Quote:
College-educated black and Hispanic men earn roughly 80% the hourly wages of white college educated men ($25 and $26 vs. $32, respectively).
And I'll grant as the article does that other factors can determine this beyond education, even though they still aren't able to close the gap based solely on other quantifiable attributes.


Housing discrimination:

Discrimination complaints

Quote:
In 2015, there were 27,944 complaints of housing discrimination across the country, according to the National Fair Housing Alliance. But those are only the reported cases. The alliance estimates there are as many as four million instances of discrimination each year; some experts suggest the number is even higher. Discrimination against people with disabilities made up 55 percent of the reported cases; racial discrimination made up about 20 percent.

Let me know how that does for you.
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Old 25th September 2017, 04:57 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
You made the argument that the reason there are so few women in leadership position is that they aren't as interested in them - women are more interested in having families and babies because of biology than in being leaders.
Yes, I said that's part of the explanation. Still not a justification.

Quote:
You made the argument that the reason that there is a higher proportion of men in higher paying jobs is because women make different choices, not because there is any preference in hiring for those jobs.
That's the same thing as the first one.

Quote:
You persisted in making that argument as the explanation
Good to see that you've dropped the accusation that I was justifying anything. In that case I have nothing to disagree with.

Quote:
despite having been provided with several research studies that showed a bias against women in STEM jobs and academics, and despite research showing that the exact same resume was seen in an unflattering light if the name on the top was a female rather than a male.
Our interpretations differ.

Quote:
You might think I'm misremembering... but I'm quite confident I am not.
I would expect nothing less.

Quote:
I'm sorry, but I'm not following.
You didn't look very far. Here's one example:

Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Privileges aren't normally just advantages you have. They're advantages given.
...

Quote:
That's a somewhat narrow definition of privilege.
I've already explained the difference between the narrow and broad definitions and why the former is used when we're talking about "male privilege" and "white privilege".
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Old 25th September 2017, 05:21 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Jeez, where to start. Since you will handwave away anyhow, lets see how this goes..

In the Justice System:

Harsher sentencing




In Schools:

Harsher discipline




For Loans:

Higher interest rates




Wage Gap:

80% as much as white men



And I'll grant as the article does that other factors can determine this beyond education, even though they still aren't able to close the gap based solely on other quantifiable attributes.


Housing discrimination:

Discrimination complaints




Let me know how that does for you.

That's correlation, not proof of privilege. Could the stats be caused by something other than the special treatment that 'privilege' implies?
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Old 25th September 2017, 05:23 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
It goes to show how racist they are. Only being able to empathize with people/things that reflect their skin color. I've never had a doll that "looked like Me"
Same here. If anything, I wanted fantasy, so definitely characters NOT like me.

Do black people really care about the skin colour of heroes on TV?

It seems to stem from the "me me me" self-centered modern take on society.
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Old 25th September 2017, 05:25 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Wow. That's... incredibly offensive.

How about you back up your "doubt" with some supporting evidence other than an accusation of mental disorder and/or dishonesty?
It sure wasn't very civil, but he makes a good point about people believing and seeing all sorts of stuff, either because of bias or other reasons.

And to return to the stuff I responded to in my previous post... I find it odd that you're interpreting "biology has an important effect on our choices and thus on our outcome" as some sort of justification for workplace discrimination. If you really draw a connection between the two, the problem is on your end.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
You're talking about what you've seen, and what others like you have seen. And you're ignoring and dismissing what people not like you have personally experienced.
Doesn't that cut both ways?

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Yes, they exist. In the US, they don't exist in a comparable proportion. It can be hard to find dolls that aren't white.
Doll or action figures?

Speaking of action figures, do you have figures for the proportional claim?
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Old 25th September 2017, 05:31 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Same here. If anything, I wanted fantasy, so definitely characters NOT like me.

Do black people really care about the skin colour of heroes on TV?

It seems to stem from the "me me me" self-centered modern take on society.
As adults? No.

As children, however, it's actually pretty important. Children need to be able to see themselves in their heroes, they need to be reflected in the ideal, in the normal, in the acceptable. Regardless of whether you approve of it or not, physical characteristics are one of the most immediately recognizable elements for resonance in children.

If the only people who you are shown as successful, good, noble, and heroic are people that are NOT like you, it leaves an impression that you are not able to be a successful, good, noble, and heroic person. Children need to see themselves reflected in the world around them, in their role models, to help create their sense of self. It informs their view of themselves, and how they fit into the world. It informs their basis for what they believe they are capable of.
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Old 25th September 2017, 05:40 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
As adults? No.

As children, however, it's actually pretty important. Children need to be able to see themselves in their heroes
The problem is that, for one reason or another -- whether it be parental absence in this day and age, or a change in education practices, etc. -- these children grow up and STILL think that they're the center of the universe. Many have never been really told "no" i.e. that they just can't have what they want all the time; that they have responsibilities, even as children, to prepare them for when they're no longer in the comfy arms of their parents.

"Me me me" adults exist. I know a few.

Quote:
they need to be reflected in the ideal, in the normal, in the acceptable. Regardless of whether you approve of it or not, physical characteristics are one of the most immediately recognizable elements for resonance in children.
It may be my secondary language playing tricks on me, but I don't understand what that means.

Quote:
If the only people who you are shown as successful, good, noble, and heroic are people that are NOT like you, it leaves an impression that you are not able to be a successful, good, noble, and heroic person.
That sounds convincing, but is it true? I spent my childhood idolising fictional cartoon characters and they were nothing like me. Do you have data for this?

Quote:
Children need to see themselves reflected in the world around them, in their role models, to help create their sense of self.
Again, I don't buy it. I don't know anyone who's ever told me they needed to be reflected, now or as children, in the world around them. Sounds like one of those cloud-shoveling bright ideas that management has when reorganising their division based on something they read off of the internet.
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