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Tags donald trump , NFL incidents , protest incidents , sports controversies , sports incidents , Trump controversies

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Old 23rd September 2017, 09:40 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
It's strange to open all of our games this way, in any case. And having military displays, which the military pays to be able to do, is even more bizarre.
I distinctly remember being punished for raising this same point when I was but a young'un.
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Old 23rd September 2017, 10:49 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
It's strange to open all of our games this way, in any case. And having military displays, which the military pays to be able to do, is even more bizarre.

It's a fine old tradition.

Think about how many sports stadiums built right after WWI were named "Memorial" or, more straightforwardly, "War Memorial" Stadium.

For whatever reason, the connection between sports and patriotism lies deep and entrenched in the American psyche.
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Old 24th September 2017, 12:03 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I'm going to use a few posts over time about how stupid the arguments of the opponents are. Number one above was about the claim that people don't want politics in sports. The players protesting do not want politics in either.

Number 2 is along the lines that they shouldn't protest because America has given them so much. That is such a myopic worldview of individual selfishness. People have empathy for others and their problems. I'm reminded of the legend of the Buddha having grew up without want experienced such a revelation with encountering the pain of others. No one says he was disrespecting India for giving him so much when he had so much concern for others.
You are growing on me, Bob.

I agree that the players would probably like to not have to worry about things like social injustice but the more people try to tell them to shut up they more compelled they will be to push back.
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Old 24th September 2017, 04:47 AM   #44
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"Total disrespect of our heritage, a total disrespect of everything that we stand for. Everything that we stand for."

But it isn't a disrespect everything we stand for. It is everything we stand for. SAD!
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Old 24th September 2017, 04:50 AM   #45
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"Football is played on a gridiron, in a stadium, sometimes called Soldier Field or War Memorial Stadium.
Baseball begins in the spring, the season of new life.
Football begins in the fall, when everything's dying.".... George Carlin.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/humor7.shtml
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Old 24th September 2017, 05:30 AM   #46
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I think we may be seeing entire teams on their knees today.

All in the spirit of "Don't **** with football!"
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Old 24th September 2017, 05:43 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
"Football is played on a gridiron, in a stadium, sometimes called Soldier Field or War Memorial Stadium.
Baseball begins in the spring, the season of new life.
Football begins in the fall, when everything's dying.".... George Carlin.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/humor7.shtml
"But worse is to come in two years time because they've given the venue of the 1994 World Cup to the United States, and football there means American Football which I can't even understand. Basically it seems to be like a game of rugby between two teams of motorcycle messengers..." - Steve Punt, 1992, The Mary Whitehouse Experience
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Old 24th September 2017, 05:49 AM   #48
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Trump has now given the majority of the American people, who dislike him often intensively, another venue to show their contempt for him: sports.
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Old 24th September 2017, 05:53 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
"Total disrespect of our heritage, a total disrespect of everything that we stand for. Everything that we stand for."

But it isn't a disrespect everything we stand for. It is everything we stand for. SAD!
It's amazing how neither he nor his sycophants seem to suffering from whiplash with the shift in gears from "down with PC culture" to "people should be fired for their political views!"
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Old 24th September 2017, 06:02 AM   #50
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An insightful take on Trump's NFL comments from The Atlantic's Derek Thompson:

Quote:
Another reason that the president cannot resist commenting on every non-political issue in American life is that he seemingly cannot stand the actual work of American governance—a preference made salient at a moment when lawmakers are busy trying to repeal the signature legislative achievement of Trump’s predecessor. Several Republican lawmakers said the president never mastered the details of health care policy. The president’s recent NFL commentary suggests that national anthem protests, on the other hand, are a debate he can engage with.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ything/540915/

Trump seems to only be stimulated by the hype and instant feedback he gets from his arranged public appearances. The guy is still campaigning because that's when he got his biggest success. The day to day grind of "presidenting" is just too boring and intellectually taxing for him. You won Trump, get over it and do something.
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Old 24th September 2017, 06:02 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
You almost have to feel sorry for the NFL owners.
Nope. Anquan Boldin's critique against Thursday Night Football, in terms of the damage it does to players and the reduction in quality of play it brings (all of which have come true) was the turning point to where I am not giving them any slack. They hired this (rule 10) Gooddell and he's bad for the game. Good for the owners, for a while, since profits seem to be good, but I want football back.
Quote:
And yet the more attention paid to the kneelers, the more revenues the NFL loses.
Good. Kapernick's initial sit down, that he later changed to a kneel, strikes me as an attempt at compromise.
Quote:
Yeah, for now they still have their existing contracts with television, but I'm going to guess that the bargaining on the next round is going to be brutal for the owners.
Good.
Quote:
I'm going to guess that the NFL owners are going to collectively lose a couple billion dollars in market value.
Good. They won't be starving any time soon.
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Trump has a strange history with the National Football League (NFL). In 1984 he told New York Times sportswriter Ira Berkow he, Trump, passed on a chance to buy the Dallas Cowboys: {snip} But The Donster was too smart to have wasted his time or money on a team like the Cowboys.
Now that's funny. Thanks for the anecdote. (Life long Cowboys fan here).

Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
A slight deviation from the OP, but only slightly. So both the NFL and the NBA in the same day? Impressive, Mr. President. In case you haven't seen, he also ''uninvited'' the NBA champion Golden State Warriors from attending the White House, singling out youth icon Stephen Curry in his tweets. Lebron James has gone back at Trump, saying that attending the White House ''was an honor until you showed up''.
I am now a slightly bigger Lebron James fan than I was a day ago. (Nice one!) As to the "disinvite" ... geeze, President Trump is being petty and vindictive. (Who saw that coming? )

Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Taking a knee while putting your cap over your heart certainly doesn't strike me as a sign of disrespect.
I applaud the effort to try and surf two waves at once.

Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
kneeling is a compromise - he sat at first, but after speaking with a vet, they worked out that he should kneel instead, to show respect for the unarmed and innocent people brutalized by police.
Yeah, he at least listened to someone else.
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
It's a fine old tradition. Think about how many sports stadiums built right after WWI were named "Memorial" or, more straightforwardly, "War Memorial" Stadium. For whatever reason, the connection between sports and patriotism lies deep and entrenched in the American psyche.
My daughter has sung the Star Spangled Banner on three occasions at a professional baseball game. (She studied voice, she can do it justice). Yeah, I wept.
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Old 24th September 2017, 07:28 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by FenerFan View Post
Trump seems to only be stimulated by the hype and instant feedback he gets from his arranged public appearances. The guy is still campaigning because that's when he got his biggest success.

He's an addict.
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Old 24th September 2017, 08:08 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by FenerFan View Post
Trump seems to only be stimulated by the hype and instant feedback he gets from his arranged public appearances. The guy is still campaigning because that's when he got his biggest success. The day to day grind of "presidenting" is just too boring and intellectually taxing for him. You won Trump, get over it and do something.
A perceptive observation. October Atlantic just hit my doorstep. You may find Goldsmith's critique of Trump and the office of the president, and Cohen's critique of the American foreign policy problems Trump is stimulating, of interest.
Getting elected and being president are two different things, which I am pretty sure most presidents find out the hard way once they are in office.

Note:Goldsmith and Cohen echo a point I've been making since Trump became a candidate. Who would put up with working for that (rule10)? He's not good at listening.
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Old 24th September 2017, 08:44 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I think we may be seeing entire teams on their knees today.

And Stevie Goddamned Wonder.
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Old 24th September 2017, 08:57 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
A slight deviation from the OP, but only slightly. So both the NFL and the NBA in the same day? Impressive, Mr. President. In case you haven't seen, he also ''uninvited'' the NBA champion Golden State Warriors from attending the White House, singling out youth icon Stephen Curry in his tweets. Lebron James has gone back at Trump, saying that attending the White House ''was an honor until you showed up''. I will add this to things I never thought I would see the President do, but now have...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/23/s...k.html?mcubz=0

I remember when Bill Clinton, as a candidate I think, went on Arsenio Hall and played saxophone. Some complained that this was not presidential.


There seems to be nothing left of any decorum at this point.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:00 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
I remember when Bill Clinton, as a candidate I think, went on Arsenio Hall and played saxaphone. Some complained that this was not presidential.
I never understood that criticism. All candidates are supposed to go out and shake hands, meet people, display a certain amount of the common touch. So he plays Saxaphone on a late night show. So what? Lots of people like to play music on the side.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:00 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Good. Kapernick's initial sit down, that he later changed to a kneel, strikes me as an attempt at compromise.
This.
He listened to criticism changed it to be more respectful. And got blasted by the same critics.

How in the living **** can a kneeling positron be considered disrespectful? It is traditionally the opposite.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:01 AM   #58
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Oh, Stevie Wonder, nice one:
Quote:
"Both knees in prayer for our planet, our future, our leaders of the world and our globe. Amen ..."
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:06 AM   #59
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I'm outraged! I'm gonna boycott watching the NFL games until the kneelers shape up!

Oh, wait. I stopped watching NFL 25 years ago. Nevermind!
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:24 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I think we may be seeing entire teams on their knees today.

All in the spirit of "Don't **** with football!"
Headline From the Chicago Trib
Quote:
Bears issue statement on President Trump’s comments; Steelers to remain in locker room during anthem


Also;
Quote:
In London, before the Jaguars-Ravens game on Sunday morning, representatives of both teams went to a knee with arms interlocked during the national anthem in a show of solidarity
.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:34 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
I remember when Bill Clinton, as a candidate I think, went on Arsenio Hall and played saxophone. Some complained that this was not presidential.


There seems to be nothing left of any decorum at this point.
The same folks also lost their minds because Obama wore a tan suit. Having lost their minds, they then voted for Trump.
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:36 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
I remember when Bill Clinton, as a candidate I think, went on Arsenio Hall and played saxophone. Some complained that this was not presidential.

"Some" being largely of the GOP persuasion.

The same ones who went ballistic over Obama wearing a tan suit.

Or [Gasp!] sitting in the Oval Office without his suit coat on.

And not to forget Spicer's cutting criticism of the elitist use of Dijon mustard.

Quote:


There seems to be nothing left of any decorum at this point.
The Donald certainly has set new standards. They'll be mighty tough for any subsequent President to crawl under.

(ETA: Rats. Treb beat me to it. )
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Old 24th September 2017, 09:43 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Wow! Your president is an absolute twat! That's all he is!
This.
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Old 24th September 2017, 12:17 PM   #64
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The triumph of form over substance is something to behold, as Trump wraps himself in the flag, and meanwhile he doesn't give a rat's ass that a foreign adversary meddled in the election. Worse than that actually -- he encouraged the meddling.
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Old 24th September 2017, 12:36 PM   #65
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The anthem is pre-game, so put players on the field AFTER it plays.

The Steelers are doing just that.

Quote:
[Head coach] Tomlin told CBS’s Jamie Erdahl, the team will remain in its Soldier Field locker room. Tomlin emphasized the decision was based on removing the pressure from players feeling they needed to decide whether to protest or not.
Trump may call it 'sad!' but but there won't be much left to debate.


*partial reposting from the Trump Pres. thread.

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Old 24th September 2017, 12:46 PM   #66
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Trump gives a perfect example of the not-an-arguement strategy.

Quote:
Courageous Patriots have fought and died for our great American Flag --- we MUST honor and respect it!
And racist policing by people claiming to share the mantle of Patriots are not honoring and respecting it. The point of the kneeling is to call attention to it. If law enforcement (if they are the problem) had a policy of taking a knee, the athletes would not take knees because they are not in solidarity with them.
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Old 24th September 2017, 01:07 PM   #67
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Sadly, the Pittsburgh Penguins seems to be bucking the trend...

From: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...at-white-house
The Pittsburgh Penguins announced in a statement Sunday morning that the team would visit the White House following its 2016-17 Stanley Cup title:

"The Pittsburgh Penguins respect the institution of the Office of the President, and the long tradition of championship teams visiting the White House. We attended White House ceremonies after previous championships—touring the historic building and visiting briefly with Presidents George H.W. Bush and Barack Obama—and have accepted an invitation to attend again this year. Any agreement or disagreement with a president's politics, policies or agenda can be expressed in other ways. However, we very much respect the rights of other individuals and groups to express themselves as they see fit."


I think this may be the first time I've been embarrassed to be a hockey fan. Then I remember, its the Penguins, a team I've hated for decades, due to their hypocritical whining.
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Old 24th September 2017, 01:18 PM   #68
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So is there any evidence of an actual boycott or was just another ineffectual Trump Tantrum?
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Old 24th September 2017, 01:24 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
You almost have to feel sorry for the NFL owners.
If anyone really feels sorry for the NFL owners, they only have to remember that several of them publicly supported Trump during the last election. Furthermore, many donated money, either to his campaign or to his inauguration. It kind of takes away the sympathy when you realize that they supported a man who is as racist as Trump is.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...icle-1.3516329
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Old 24th September 2017, 01:28 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
I remember when Bill Clinton, as a candidate I think, went on Arsenio Hall and played saxophone. Some complained that this was not presidential.


There seems to be nothing left of any decorum at this point.
Good point. I remember that.

He also played saxophone at one of his own inaugural balls. I remember watching and thinking, "Wow. Not only is the President of the United States playing a saxophone, but the song he is playing is 'Your Mama Don't Dance and Your Daddy Don't Rock and Roll."

I thought it was pretty cool. Some in the right wing media thought it was proof America was head to Hell in a handbasket.

And now.....we have Trump. So, I guess the right wing media was proven correct after all.



Meanwhile, on the direct thread topic, I would like to thank Donald Trump for doing something to Make America Great Again. One of the best things about Americans is that if you tell Americans that they can't do something, Americans will tell you to shove it, and will do it to spite you. Donald Trump has managed to take an individual protest by one man and turn it into a widespread protest across the whole league. Thank you, Donald, for bringing out America's best.
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Old 24th September 2017, 01:30 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
It's a fine old tradition.

Think about how many sports stadiums built right after WWI were named "Memorial" or, more straightforwardly, "War Memorial" Stadium.

For whatever reason, the connection between sports and patriotism lies deep and entrenched in the American psyche.
Really? You have sports stadiums named WAR memorial???????
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Old 24th September 2017, 01:35 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by mikado View Post
Really? You have sports stadiums named WAR memorial???????
It was built in 1948.
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Old 24th September 2017, 01:37 PM   #73
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Quote:
Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin backed President Donald Trump's days of attacks on NFL players, saying athletes "can do free speech on their own time."

Beginning at a Friday rally in Alabama, Trump has suggested players who have knelt during the national anthem in order to protest racism and police brutality should be kicked out of the league. Most players who have participated in the protests are black.

"I think what the president is saying is that the owners should have a rule that players should have to stand in respect for the national anthem," Mnuchin said Sunday on ABC's "This Week." "This isn't about Democrats, it's not about Republicans, it's not about race, it's not about free speech. They can do free speech on their own time. That this is about respect for the military and first responders in the country."

Mnuchin made similar remarks Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union."
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-speech-243065

I'm wondering why anyone should be obligated to "show respect" towards the military and "first responders" during a sports game of all events. I mean surely they can have other events, parades or public holidays explicitly set aside for showing public support for the military and others.

Why not go all in and make it a criminal offense to not stand and sing to the national anthem at cinemas, theaters and other venues? All students at public (and private) schools should be obligated to make the pledge of allegiance in front of the American flag and a portrait of the current President when the school day begins, during lunch and when it ends.
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Old 24th September 2017, 01:44 PM   #74
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-speech-243065

I'm wondering why anyone should be obligated to "show respect" towards the military and "first responders" during a sports game of all events. I mean surely they can have other events, parades or public holidays explicitly set aside for showing public support for the military and others.

Why not go all in and make it a criminal offense to not stand and sing to the national anthem at cinemas, theaters and other venues? All students at public (and private) schools should be obligated to make the pledge of allegiance in front of the American flag and a portrait of the current President when the school day begins, during lunch and when it ends.
How the heck did we determine it is about respect for first responders and the military? I thought a national anthem was there for all of us?
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Old 24th September 2017, 01:50 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by mikado View Post
Really? You have sports stadiums named WAR memorial???????
Yes. And Soldier Field. Veterans' Stadium. All sorts of war references.

These days, most of our stadiums are named after companies, and the names are changed when the company decides to stop paying the fee, but back before we started selling the rights to temporarily name the stadium, war references were very common.
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Old 24th September 2017, 02:06 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Sadly, the Pittsburgh Penguins seems to be bucking the trend...

From: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...at-white-house
The Pittsburgh Penguins announced in a statement Sunday morning that the team would visit the White House following its 2016-17 Stanley Cup title:

"The Pittsburgh Penguins respect the institution of the Office of the President, and the long tradition of championship teams visiting the White House. We attended White House ceremonies after previous championships—touring the historic building and visiting briefly with Presidents George H.W. Bush and Barack Obama—and have accepted an invitation to attend again this year. Any agreement or disagreement with a president's politics, policies or agenda can be expressed in other ways. However, we very much respect the rights of other individuals and groups to express themselves as they see fit."


I think this may be the first time I've been embarrassed to be a hockey fan. Then I remember, its the Penguins, a team I've hated for decades, due to their hypocritical whining.
The Penguins roster lists 43 players, only 17 of whom are Americans. Should they have to stand for someone else's anthem?
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Old 24th September 2017, 02:08 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
So is there any evidence of an actual boycott or was just another ineffectual Trump Tantrum?
It's a distraction. Every second the MSM spends talking about it is a second they aren't talking about the R's third failure to pass take away health care.
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Old 24th September 2017, 02:13 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Yes. And Soldier Field. Veterans' Stadium. All sorts of war references.

These days, most of our stadiums are named after companies, and the names are changed when the company decides to stop paying the fee, but back before we started selling the rights to temporarily name the stadium, war references were very common.
The big pro stadiums get corporate names but thousands of smaller ones are still war memorials. That includes one in Seattle and one in my little town. The one here actually has cannons in front if it which were "liberated" during the Spanish American War.
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Old 24th September 2017, 02:28 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Sadly, the Pittsburgh Penguins seems to be bucking the trend...

From: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...at-white-house
The Pittsburgh Penguins announced in a statement Sunday morning that the team would visit the White House following its 2016-17 Stanley Cup title:

"The Pittsburgh Penguins respect the institution of the Office of the President, and the long tradition of championship teams visiting the White House. We attended White House ceremonies after previous championships—touring the historic building and visiting briefly with Presidents George H.W. Bush and Barack Obama—and have accepted an invitation to attend again this year. Any agreement or disagreement with a president's politics, policies or agenda can be expressed in other ways. However, we very much respect the rights of other individuals and groups to express themselves as they see fit."


I think this may be the first time I've been embarrassed to be a hockey fan. Then I remember, its the Penguins, a team I've hated for decades, due to their hypocritical whining.
As a Pens fan, I am biased, but I respect a team's choice not to become overtly political. I also respect a team's choice to refuse a White House invitation in these times.

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Old 24th September 2017, 03:09 PM   #80
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I have arbitrarily decided that anyone that doesn't stand up at 10:37 AM and say "bleeg blort" is disrespecting our nations kindergarten teachers. They put in lot of work for our kids and I find it infuriating that so many people don't show them respect by engaging in a weird ceremony I just made up.
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