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Tags donald trump , NFL incidents , protest incidents , sports controversies , sports incidents , Trump controversies

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Old 25th September 2017, 10:26 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
And thusly the adage remains unbroken, whatever outrageous thing Trump Tweets, there is a equal but hypocritically opposite Tweet from his past.
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:27 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Is there some way to explain to conservatives that standing up for the anthem is (1) an act of symbolic speech and (2) consummately politically correct? Then hopefully they will come to understand that what they are really asking the NFL to do is create safe spaces free from offensive political incorrectness.
You're right. This is a version of a "safe space".

Now let's see if you can explain that to liberals as well, so that they will come to understand how "safe spaces" are just a tool for control and suppression of speech.
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:33 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Now, he tells the NFL to fire anyone who protests during the National Anthem.
Is that legal?

Quote:
18 U.S. Code § 227 - Wrongfully influencing a private entity’s employment decisions by a Member of Congress or an officer or employee of the legislative or executive branch

(a) Whoever, being a covered government person, with the intent to influence, solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation, an employment decision or employment practice of any private entity—
(1) takes or withholds, or offers or threatens to take or withhold, an official act, or
(2) influences, or offers or threatens to influence, the official act of another,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 15 years, or both, and may be disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.
(b) In this section, the term “covered government person” means—
(1) a Senator or Representative in, or a Delegate or Resident Commissioner to, the Congress;
(2) an employee of either House of Congress; or
(3) the President, Vice President, an employee of the United States Postal Service or the Postal Regulatory Commission, or any other executive branch employee (as such term is defined under section 2105 of title 5, United States Code).

I'm guessing the exact definition of "solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation" is what affects whether this applies.
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:37 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You're right. This is a version of a "safe space".

Now let's see if you can explain that to liberals as well, so that they will come to understand how "safe spaces" are just a tool for control and suppression of speech.
We need to make them more like republican conventions, have all the free speech done in cages miles away. That is the constitutional answer.
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:40 AM   #165
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Why don't we encourage a counter-protest, in which all the flag huggers refuse to sit down for the rest of the game? That'll show them!
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Old 25th September 2017, 10:43 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Now let's see if you can explain that to liberals as well, so that they will come to understand how "safe spaces" are just a tool for control and suppression of speech.
I fully intend to try to explain it to the illiberal left.
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Old 25th September 2017, 11:06 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hmm think he will order the military to stop advertising so heavily on football? What would cutting out that stream of cash do to the league?
Comversely, how would removing those ads affect recruitment?
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Old 25th September 2017, 11:15 AM   #168
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I sometimes find myself thinking about the merits of the various sides of this but then I realize it's football and I don't give a **** and spending more than 30 seconds thinking about it is a waste of time.
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Old 25th September 2017, 11:24 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Is that legal?

...

I'm guessing the exact definition of "solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation" is what affects whether this applies.
It also says:

(1) takes or withholds, or offers or threatens to take or withhold, an official act, or
(2) influences, or offers or threatens to influence, the official act of another,

in which only "(2) influences ..." seems to relate to Trump's ravings. If he'd threatened to withold Govt. sponsorship, or prosecute somehow, or similar, then I'd hazard a guess he might have been in breach of the law there.
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Old 25th September 2017, 11:26 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
More than some, less than others.

The President calling for sanctions on USA businesses because of how they handle first amendment issues seems problematic to me.
Sigh. People do have first amendment rights in the workplace, but they protect them only from the government, not from their employers.

And the "sanctions" the President is calling for is a boycott by the public; not some government sanction. Ergo no constitutional issues.

Let me ask you this: Suppose Obama had suggested that people boycott bakeries that refuse to provide wedding cakes for gay marriages. Would that have been problematic to you?
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Old 25th September 2017, 11:30 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And thusly the adage remains unbroken, whatever outrageous thing Trump Tweets, there is a equal but hypocritically opposite Tweet from his past.
News Thump has you covered:

Donald Trump’s biggest critic now his own 2013 Twitter account
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Old 25th September 2017, 11:46 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Let me ask you this: Suppose Obama had suggested that people boycott bakeries that refuse to provide wedding cakes for gay marriages. Would that have been problematic to you?
Not really. In fact, it would be far less problematic than what the government actually did.

Suppose that Trump had suggested compelling players to stand for the anthem through government force. Would that have been problematic to you?
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:02 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Sigh. People do have first amendment rights in the workplace, but they protect them only from the government, not from their employers.
And just because people do not have First Amendment rights in the workplace (or on personal time outside of the company) does not mean there is no protection against political discrimination. Depending on the city or state, a person might even retain an explicit right to expression. Also, governments restrict the political speech of employers by prohibiting companies from, for example, including "Make America Great Again" bumperstickers with paychecks.
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:22 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Not really. In fact, it would be far less problematic than what the government actually did.
Yes good Christians should always be able to refuse to serve blacks and Jews.

We need to defend good americans like the one fined $5000 for supporting the president here

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/14/us/air...ent/index.html
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:37 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Sigh.
Perhaps this is just too strenuous for you.

Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
People do have first amendment rights in the workplace, but they protect them only from the government, not from their employers.
Except for you have the government [El Presedente] telling employers how to handle employee first amendment rights, or suffer government sanctioned boycott. That sounds perilously close to government infringing on 1A rights.

Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
And the "sanctions" the President is calling for is a boycott by the public; not some government sanction. Ergo no constitutional issues.
Sorry, the Prez calling for boycott *IS* a government action. Ergo, yes Constitutional issue.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:08 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
Except for you have the government [El Presedente] telling employers how to handle employee first amendment rights, or suffer government sanctioned boycott. That sounds perilously close to government infringing on 1A rights.

Sorry, the Prez calling for boycott *IS* a government action. Ergo, yes Constitutional issue.
I hasten to add that my only interest is at the technical, legal level - but did Trump's blathering suggest "government sanction" in any way? To "sanction" something requires the use of official powers, not just the expression of a desire.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:11 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I hasten to add that my only interest is at the technical, legal level - but did Trump's blathering suggest "government sanction" in any way? To "sanction" something requires the use of official powers, not just the expression of a desire.
Will no one rid him of this turbulent football player?
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:12 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I hasten to add that my only interest is at the technical, legal level - but did Trump's blathering suggest "government sanction" in any way? To "sanction" something requires the use of official powers, not just the expression of a desire.
When the President issues an official declaration [Tweets, per DJT Administration, ARE official declarations] that Americans should boycott businesses, it is not "blathering" such as you and I when we take to twitter.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:37 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Admittedly no one liked agitators like King at the time they were protesting either.
I'm rather hoping we don't need to see one of the protesters get assassinated and let the requisite time pass before we address this issue.

I wish we'd stop bitching about the protest and start bitching about systemic racism. I mean all of us.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:41 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You're right. This is a version of a "safe space".

Now let's see if you can explain that to liberals as well, so that they will come to understand how "safe spaces" are just a tool for control and suppression of speech.
If you admit both sides do it, why is it that liberals in particular need this explained to them?

Are you saying conservatives already know it's speech suppression, but do it anyway?
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:43 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
When the President issues an official declaration [Tweets, per DJT Administration, ARE official declarations] that Americans should boycott businesses, it is not "blathering" such as you and I when we take to twitter.
But it is. They are the same.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:47 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
But it is. They are the same.
No, they are not. PJDT tweets are official Presidential Statements. Other tweets, are not. This doesn't require your acknowledgement to remain fact.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:50 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Sigh. People do have first amendment rights in the workplace, but they protect them only from the government, not from their employers.

And the "sanctions" the President is calling for is a boycott by the public; not some government sanction. Ergo no constitutional issues.
Trump didn't just call for a boycott. He specifically said the people protesting should have their livelihoods taken away from them. That may not technically be a constitutional issue, but certainly demonstrates that the president has a complete lack of respect for free expression. That should be problematic for you.

Quote:
Let me ask you this: Suppose Obama had suggested that people boycott bakeries that refuse to provide wedding cakes for gay marriages. Would that have been problematic to you?
It wouldn't be for you?

I can tell you this much, if Obama went on national television and demanded that Tea Party protestors lose their jobs, the Right would have lost their damn minds.

Of course, that was back when they pretended to care about things like this.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:50 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
No, they are not. PJDT tweets are official Presidential Statements. Other tweets, are not. This doesn't require your acknowledgement to remain fact.
My tweets are official statements by me. People can state almost anything they want.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:52 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
My tweets are official statements by me. People can state almost anything they want.
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Old 25th September 2017, 01:53 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I fully intend to try to explain it to the illiberal left.
Considering that the "illiberal left" aren't the ones using the highest political office in the country as a platform to suppress speech, I'm not sure how immediate that need is.
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Old 25th September 2017, 02:10 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Aside from Michelle's role as First lady, who in Obama's
family or immediate circle were employed at the White House?

If there was grift, it was incredibly minor.

Now, with Don Donald in charge, how many of his family
and made men are we seeing in positions of power?

That is the kind of obvious difference.

He didn't say grifters - people engaged in petty swindling.

He said gritters - vehicles or machines for spreading grit
and often salt on roads in icy or potentially icy weather.

In his opinion, the Obama administration preformed much needed
service for our country by removing potentially hazardous conditions
from the path of economic progress.
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Old 25th September 2017, 02:25 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Not really. In fact, it would be far less problematic than what the government actually did.
I agree.

Quote:
Suppose that Trump had suggested compelling players to stand for the anthem through government force. Would that have been problematic to you?
Yes, of course. That is where the line is. And that would apply whether the force is actually physical, or financial--e.g., a fine for not standing.
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Old 25th September 2017, 02:38 PM   #189
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Old 25th September 2017, 02:40 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Trump didn't just call for a boycott. He specifically said the people protesting should have their livelihoods taken away from them.
And I agree; unfortunately the owners don't really have that ability right now, but I guarantee you they will be looking long and hard at players who are involved. Kaepernick alone has probably cost the combined NFL a billion dollars or more in potential value.

Quote:
That may not technically be a constitutional issue, but certainly demonstrates that the president has a complete lack of respect for free expression. That should be problematic for you.
I suppose being right doesn't count for much with you.

Quote:
It wouldn't be for you?

I can tell you this much, if Obama went on national television and demanded that Tea Party protestors lose their jobs, the Right would have lost their damn minds.

Of course, that was back when they pretended to care about things like this.
Obama didn't demand, but he certainly encouraged NFL owners to hire Michael Vick after he was released from prison. And if you hire one person, you don't hire another.
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Old 25th September 2017, 02:42 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
He also said the NFL sucks because they are trying to eliminate violent hits. And he did this the same day we found out Aaron Hernandez had a terrible case of CTE.

It's like he tries to find ways to be insensitive.
That's like saying a horse tries to find ways to be a horse.
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Old 25th September 2017, 02:43 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
"I prefer somone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag.”
― Molly Ivins
And if Molly Ivins could just find somebody who burns the constitution she'd have made a valid point.
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Old 25th September 2017, 03:03 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
"I prefer somone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag.”
― Molly Ivins
I'd prefer if Molly Ivins had wrapped herself up in a burning flag.
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Old 25th September 2017, 03:13 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
My tweets are official statements by me. People can state almost anything they want.
Trump's tweets are official government sanctioned statements.
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Old 25th September 2017, 03:22 PM   #195
Polaris
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Payback is a you-know-what:
The man's like Midas in reverse.
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Old 25th September 2017, 03:42 PM   #196
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Sports events protests! This is going really swell. The majority of public events by the end of 2019 if he is still president will be anti-Trump rallies. american flags made in China and Vietnam will be burned routinely. Trump hats will be burned at outdoor events.

The national anthem and the pledge of allegiance will not recover from the Trump taint until about 2022.

All going according to plan now. Bring Trump down to his knees and depress him to quit.
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Old 25th September 2017, 03:52 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
If you admit both sides do it, why is it that liberals in particular need this explained to them?
I never said that liberals in particular need it explained. But conservatives were already mentioned, and liberals hadn't been.
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Old 25th September 2017, 03:52 PM   #198
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Trump's tweets are official government sanctioned statements.
Not government. Executive branch. Plus, they are just opinions with no legal implications. The opinion is about as valid as anything I would spew on Twitter.
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Old 25th September 2017, 04:06 PM   #199
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
And I agree; unfortunately the owners don't really have that ability right now, but I guarantee you they will be looking long and hard at players who are involved. Kaepernick alone has probably cost the combined NFL a billion dollars or more in potential value.
What does this have to do with President Trump coming out against free speech?

Quote:
I suppose being right doesn't count for much with you.
Right about what?

Quote:
Obama didn't demand, but he certainly encouraged NFL owners to hire Michael Vick after he was released from prison. And if you hire one person, you don't hire another.
What does this have to do with President Trump coming out against free speech?

Oh and also, this didn't happen:
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Obama didn't demand, but he certainly encouraged NFL owners to hire Michael Vick after he was released from prison.

Last edited by johnny karate; 25th September 2017 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 25th September 2017, 04:11 PM   #200
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