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Tags donald trump , NFL incidents , protest incidents , sports controversies , sports incidents , Trump controversies

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Old 26th September 2017, 03:00 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
You know they aren't literally wrapping themselves in flags, yeah?
They're just letting us all know they don't understand the quote they're criticizing.
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Old 26th September 2017, 03:38 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
You know they aren't literally wrapping themselves in flags, yeah?
The concept of "metaphor" seems to elude some people.
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Old 26th September 2017, 03:49 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
Oops.

I'll bet I could vamp a way for Article I to apply to this situation...
Okay, I know I've seen them referenced as "Articles of amendment" to the Constitution. Of course, if you say Article I, it is at best ambiguous whether you are talking about Article I of the original constitution or Article I of Amendments to the Constitution, so most people just say "1st Amendment".
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Old 26th September 2017, 04:32 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No, that's not at all what I think (big surprise, you can't imagine I'm anything other than the caricature you've formed in your head). [your posts reveal about you] ...
FTFY If you are not well represented by your posts I would have no way of knowing.

Back to the point you missed:
Originally Posted by Ziggurat
But I don't think many people watch sports games just because they agree with the politics of the player.
The added publicity will have the same effect advertising football has. If such publicity did not draw interested viewers, advertisers sure waste a lot of money.

Your premise is the publicity causes lost viewers, mine is that such losses are minimal. If you read the link I cited which analyzed NFL loss in popularity you'd have seen a detailed account of how little the protests account for said losses.

It's even possible the net loss is really a net shift to other media than TV to watch games. That analysis was noted, the hypothesis proposed, but not investigated further.
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Old 26th September 2017, 04:53 PM   #325
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The NFL totally controls the expression of it's players on the field during games. They banned the Dallas Cowboys from wearing a decal honoring dead police officers; they banned a player from wearing pink cleats to honor his mother, who died of breast cancer; this despite the NFL having a breast cancer awareness month.
If the NFL is allowing these players to kneel/sit during the National Anthem, the NFL is condoning their behavior. It is not a 1st amendment issue as it is not the government regulating their conduct but the NFL.
The NFL markets heavily to Americans who are patriotic and express love of their country. This is evidenced in the ubiquitous use of military personnel in their pregame shows. They know these people represent a large portion of their fan base. They also know that a different large fan base and source of talent comes from the Black Community. I think this creates a problem for the NFL in balancing the desires of one set of fans to celebrate America with the desires of another set of fans to protest.
This puts the league in a position of trying to balance the issues of what does one fan base want to see versus what does the other fan base want to see.
My meaningless opinion is that I want to see football. If the anthem is going to be played, I want to see everyone display the proper protocols for the playing of the anthem. Don't want to do that be off field for the anthem. Other option, simply dispense with playing the National Anthem at the start of games.
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Old 26th September 2017, 05:03 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's not Trump yapping that made viewership drop. It was the NFL doubling down on the protests that did. He goaded them into a mistake, and they stupidly fell for it.

As for his motives? Attention, an easy victory, planet X, doesn't really matter. Trump gonna Trump.
Technically, if viewership did drop, it was because people got their precious feelings hurt and decided they needed to go away from the bad things that anger them. Assuredly they migrated to online forums or facebook where they ranted about "PC censorship" and "safespaces" completely oblivious to the irony.
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Old 26th September 2017, 05:04 PM   #327
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Taking a knee is similar to the ice bucket challenge, in that it is trendy for some people to take part, but it is completely different because the ice bucket challenge actually was useful and raised money for research.
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Old 26th September 2017, 05:24 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Back to the point you missed:The added publicity will have the same effect advertising football has. If such publicity did not draw interested viewers, advertisers sure waste a lot of money.
That's stupid on its face. You want to know one of the reasons advertising is expensive? Because you can't just put any old message out there and expect to get positive results. You have to carefully craft the message to be appealing.

This publicity wasn't crafted to be appealing to anyone, really.
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Old 26th September 2017, 05:27 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This publicity wasn't crafted to be appealing to anyone, really.
The idea of corporations giving their earners leeway to express themselves as they see fit certainly appeals to me.
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Old 26th September 2017, 05:34 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
The idea of corporations giving their earners leeway to express themselves as they see fit certainly appeals to me.
Does it make you want to watch football? Or do you just like it in the abstract?
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Old 26th September 2017, 05:37 PM   #331
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A video about one man's attitude towards the hoopla regarding taking a knee during the anthem. https://imgur.com/gallery/CDl2n

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNJUsE7pEs4

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Old 26th September 2017, 05:49 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But at least we can still enjoy watching black men get brain damage. That is the best part after all.
Eh! no big deal The 2016 election proved brain damage doesn't stop one from aspiring to the highest office in the land.
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Old 26th September 2017, 05:50 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Horhang View Post
The NFL totally controls the expression of it's players on the field during games. They banned the Dallas Cowboys from wearing a decal honoring dead police officers; they banned a player from wearing pink cleats to honor his mother, who died of breast cancer; this despite the NFL having a breast cancer awareness month.
If the NFL is allowing these players to kneel/sit during the National Anthem, the NFL is condoning their behavior. It is not a 1st amendment issue as it is not the government regulating their conduct but the NFL.
The NFL markets heavily to Americans who are patriotic and express love of their country. This is evidenced in the ubiquitous use of military personnel in their pregame shows. They know these people represent a large portion of their fan base. They also know that a different large fan base and source of talent comes from the Black Community. I think this creates a problem for the NFL in balancing the desires of one set of fans to celebrate America with the desires of another set of fans to protest.
This puts the league in a position of trying to balance the issues of what does one fan base want to see versus what does the other fan base want to see.
My meaningless opinion is that I want to see football. If the anthem is going to be played, I want to see everyone display the proper protocols for the playing of the anthem. Don't want to do that be off field for the anthem. Other option, simply dispense with playing the National Anthem at the start of games.
Banning a pre-game gesture is not the same as banning an altered uniform or requiring a strict dress code.

About the closest you could get was banning the touchdown spike.

As for kneeling, there's a precedent.
Tebowing was not only not banned, it was celebrated/marketed.
Quote:
Pittsburgh mayor Luke Ravenstahl tebowed as part of a bet with the mayor of Denver following the Broncos playoff victory over the Steelers in 2012.[210] On October 9, 2012, Tebow was awarded the trademark to Tebowing after winning a legal battle with two fans who had expressed interest in trademarking the name.[211]
In December 2011, the life-sized wall graphics company Fathead released a "Tebowing" sticker that became the company's best-selling product in two days.[212]
Tebowing was included as a feature in the Madden NFL 13 video game.[213]
Mr Tebow was not allowed to write Bible verse numbers in his face paint.

As for the touchdown spike: NFL to loosen rules on touchdown celebrations, shorten overtime

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Old 26th September 2017, 05:55 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
A video about one man's attitude towards the hoopla regarding taking a knee during the anthem. https://imgur.com/gallery/CDl2n

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNJUsE7pEs4

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Old 26th September 2017, 06:05 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's stupid on its face. You want to know one of the reasons advertising is expensive? Because you can't just put any old message out there and expect to get positive results. You have to carefully craft the message to be appealing.

This publicity wasn't crafted to be appealing to anyone, really.
Any connoisseur of marketing knows negative ads of commercial products often have positive effects. When it comes to politics, negative ads can influence votes between candidates, but that is different from marketing products.

NEGATIVE ADS MIGHT JUST BE POSITIVE FOR YOUR BRAND
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Old 26th September 2017, 06:33 PM   #336
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My point quite simply was that the NFL can and does regulate every aspect of the players on the field on game day. If they choose not to regulate this it is a choice of the league.
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Old 26th September 2017, 06:48 PM   #337
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A Reuters poll indicates a majority of Americans, when polled, don't believe the NFL players who kneel in silent protest should be dropped by their team.

Quote:
The Sept. 25-26 poll found that 57 percent of adults do not think the National Football League should fire players who kneel. This included 61 percent of NFL fans who watch at least a few games per season. The results were split along party lines, however, as 82 percent of Democrats and 29 percent of Republicans disagreed with the president’s comments about firing football players.

Eighty-five percent of adults said, for example, that they almost always “stand in silence” when the national anthem is played at an event they are attending. Seventy-four percent said they almost always put their hand over their heart. Yet, when it comes to professional athletes, there is less agreement about what is appropriate. While 58 percent of adults said that “professional athletes should be required to stand during the national anthem at sporting events,” there is rising support for those athletes who do not. In the latest poll, 40 percent of Americans said that they support the stance that some pro football players have made to not stand during the anthem. That is up from 28 percent who answered the same way in a similar Reuters/Ipsos poll last year.
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I'm one of the fans who always stands with my hand over my heart when the anthem is played. Yet I have no problem at all with people who don't or don't want to. I have even less problem with professional players who choose to kneel as a form of protest. I respect that, in fact. What I do have a problem with is the way Trump has gone about this. I'm glad to see 53 percent of Americans do not think it is appropriate for the president to comment on “how the NFL and its players conduct themselves during the national anthem.”

I'm one of them.
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Old 26th September 2017, 07:02 PM   #338
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What The PDJT does not realize is that all the additional demonstrators this past weekend are directly a result of what he tweeted. In other words, they're saying "**** you, Trump."
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Old 26th September 2017, 07:31 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
What The PDJT does not realize is that all the additional demonstrators this past weekend are directly a result of what he tweeted. In other words, they're saying "**** you, Trump."
That interpretation isn't logical.

If Trump thinks that people (or even just his base) don't like the protests, then by provoking more protests, people who don't like them to begin with will like them even less. That solidifies, not undermines, his position. Rather than being an unintended consequence, there is every reason to believe that was the goal. The only way this would really be a mistake for Trump is if his base supported the protests to begin with.
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Old 26th September 2017, 07:51 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Okay, I know I've seen them referenced as "Articles of amendment" to the Constitution. Of course, if you say Article I, it is at best ambiguous whether you are talking about Article I of the original constitution or Article I of Amendments to the Constitution, so most people just say "1st Amendment".
What we now call the Bill of Rights contains twelve articles that were proposed Amendments to the COTUS in 1789. Article the first has not been ratified and Article the second was not ratified until 1992 (27th Amendment). Articles three through twelve were ratified and became the first ten Amendments.
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Old 26th September 2017, 08:00 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Please stop! The topic of the thread is important. This derail is not.
No actually it's not. If this is a deep concerning issue, the USA has no real problems
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Old 26th September 2017, 08:11 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
No actually it's not. If this is a deep concerning issue, the USA has no real problems
Yes actually it is. Everything Trump does is literally the worst thing ever.

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Old 26th September 2017, 08:16 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
I would have thought you would have had enough of war by now.
Human history being what it is, you are so wrong I am not sure what else to say.
Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
It was a good while before Ali made that leap from the former to the latter, though. He was all but blacklisted for a long time for his refusal to fight for his country.
Yeah, this was a huge issue when I was coming of age and beginning to understand politics. Ali's protest was pretty ballsy, and it cost him plenty.
Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
A well known figure, greatly admired by Trump, tweeted that the president has more important things to focus on than the NFL.
Yeah. What's funny is you and I get it, and he doesn't. Or is that funny?
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Suppose that Trump had suggested compelling players to stand for the anthem through government force. Would that have been problematic to you?
It would have pissed me off in ways that I am not sure you understand.
Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
So apparently tonight, the Dallas Cowboys , including Jerry Jones, took a knee in solidarity before the anthem played, stood up for the anthem, and are still getting major flack. https://sports.yahoo.com/cowboys-tak...005655363.html
That does not change the fact that Jones is an utter (rule10).
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Trump has a problem when black people loudly protest and when black people silently protest....
The only sound Trump likes is the sound of his own voice
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
So you know that brave Steeler player who went out for the National Anthem all by himself?
You are not entitled to appropriate Allejandro Villanueva's actions and feelings for your own BS. Back off. This is a man, and a patriot, who was utterly torn by this political mess, and he's man enough to admit that how it worked out was harmful to people whom he cares for: his team mates. And he's got the right message. You, not so much.
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Please stop! The topic of the thread is important. This derail is not.
I think that for once I disagree with you.
Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
No actually it's not. If this is a deep concerning issue, the USA has no real problems
Which we know is not the case.
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Old 26th September 2017, 08:39 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
It would have pissed me off in ways that I am not sure you understand.
I have an inkling. And that was the point: I don't think anyone has a problem understanding why that would be bad.

But change the context a bit, and plenty of people (not suggesting you are one) have no problem with compelled speach.
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Old 26th September 2017, 08:47 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
But change the context a bit, and plenty of people (not suggesting you are one) have no problem with compelled speech.
Let me put it this way: I don't care if someone buys their own flag and chooses to burn it as their form of political protest. Do what's in your heart.
Try to burn the flag that I put up in front of my house and that's not gonna end well. At all.
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Old 26th September 2017, 10:01 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
The concept of "metaphor" seems to elude some people.

Only when they find it convenient for them.
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Old 26th September 2017, 11:13 PM   #347
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For Zig: Weekend Ratings Jump Undermines Trump Claim That Discreet Pregame Protests Are Destroying the NFL
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Old 26th September 2017, 11:22 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
President Trump will now claim that his intervention single-handedly rescued the NFL's ratings
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Old 26th September 2017, 11:37 PM   #349
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Mod InfoDerail about playing time in American Football split to here. Please keep to the topic of this thread, thank you!
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Old 27th September 2017, 04:49 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post

Rubberneckers.


On a side note people were kneeling on the finale of Ink Master last night when the national anthem was played LOL
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Old 27th September 2017, 06:43 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yes actually it is. Everything Trump does is literally the worst thing ever.
Of course it is, he has to continually top himself.
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Old 27th September 2017, 07:07 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
A video about one man's attitude towards the hoopla regarding taking a knee during the anthem. https://imgur.com/gallery/CDl2n

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNJUsE7pEs4

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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
That does not change the fact that Jones is an utter (rule10).
I expect hell to freeze over before that fact is even nudged. Someone showed Jones a way to try to please both sides. He took that low hanging fruit.

When 45 says he talked to Jones on the phone my head went a bit woozy. Have either of them ever spoken a complete sentence without referring to a script? That call had to produce the most confusing transcript ever typed out. And it did and we will, such a great, vey good, and that.
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Old 27th September 2017, 07:08 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Rubberneckers.
Rubberneckers are viewers, too. Isn't that the premise of most reality TV?
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Old 27th September 2017, 07:11 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Rubberneckers.


On a side note people were kneeling on the finale of Ink Master last night when the national anthem was played LOL
The games were better this week.
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Old 27th September 2017, 07:15 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Rubberneckers are viewers, too. Isn't that the premise of most reality TV?
Hell, what are TV sports fans if not rubberneckers? And with the NFL, not even the best sort of rubberneckers. I'd bet that Taylor destroying L'il Joe's leg and career has more views than the most balletic TD catches or acrobatic kick returns.
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Old 27th September 2017, 07:32 AM   #356
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I wonder if this kerfuffle could go away if the networks simply announced that they would not show players during the playing of the national anthem. Seriously. Why is there a need to show players during the anthem at all?



(And, in my opinion, during the playing of the national anthem might be a great time for a commercial break, but if you did that I can picture much wailing and gnashing of teeth from pseudopatriots saying that the networks are disrespecting the flag. There's no way you can say that if they simply don't show the players.)
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Old 27th September 2017, 07:35 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Hell, what are TV sports fans if not rubberneckers? And with the NFL, not even the best sort of rubberneckers. I'd bet that Taylor destroying L'il Joe's leg and career has more views than the most balletic TD catches or acrobatic kick returns.
Not to mention NASCAR. Every clip of NASCAR that I have viewed over the last five years has included a wreck. The rest is only interesting to those who got bored with baseball because there weren't enough stats to tabulate.
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Old 27th September 2017, 07:37 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I wonder if this kerfuffle could go away if the networks simply announced that they would not show players during the playing of the national anthem. Seriously. Why is there a need to show players during the anthem at all?



(And, in my opinion, during the playing of the national anthem might be a great time for a commercial break, but if you did that I can picture much wailing and gnashing of teeth from pseudopatriots saying that the networks are disrespecting the flag. There's no way you can say that if they simply don't show the players.)
It's certainly true that all the cameramen panning the teams and crowd are ignoring the flag code, and no one complains.

I understand that they have different reasons, but I don't really recall any conversation why generating images of the crowd is a good reason to turn your back on the flag but publicizing police brutality isn't a good reason to kneel before the flag.

In fact, showing images of the players instead of the flag is kinda disrespectful.
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Old 27th September 2017, 07:38 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I wonder if this kerfuffle could go away if the networks simply announced that they would not show players during the playing of the national anthem. Seriously. Why is there a need to show players during the anthem at all?



(And, in my opinion, during the playing of the national anthem might be a great time for a commercial break, but if you did that I can picture much wailing and gnashing of teeth from pseudopatriots saying that the networks are disrespecting the flag. There's no way you can say that if they simply don't show the players.)
Maybe my recollection is wrong, but prior to this year, the only time I really remember the NFL showing the national anthem is during playoffs and superbowl. Again, maybe my memory is wrong, but I swear in the past they jumped from pre-game coverage to boom, the ball is being kicked off after commercial break.
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Old 27th September 2017, 07:46 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Hell, what are TV sports fans if not rubberneckers?
I take issue with this as a fan of English Football. "The most beautiful game" and "rubberneckers" are not compatible concepts...
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