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Tags gun control issues , Las Vegas incidents , shooting incidents

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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:23 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by RationalVetMed View Post
An unbelievable death toll. I just looked up the Nevada gun laws and discovered it's legal to carry an assault rifle. Why on earth would your average citizen need one of those!

Niall
May I ask what "assault" means in this context? Does it mean "goes full auto"?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:23 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by RationalVetMed View Post
An unbelievable death toll. I just looked up the Nevada gun laws and discovered it's legal to carry an assault rifle. Why on earth would your average citizen need one of those!

Niall
In case you book a nice hotel, only to find out there is a Country music festival right across the street?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:24 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Apparently, the shooter is "a fan of the The Rachel Maddow Show and liked several pages on Facebook including Thank You Obama, Anti-Trump Army, Progressive Day, Organizing for Action, Not My President, Proud to Be A Democrat, Fight Trump, Boycott All Things Trump, and Impeach Trump. He is a Democrat and is registered to vote in Washoe County, Nevada."
Definitely sounds like a Muslim.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:24 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I thought the same thing but decided not to post, lest someone take issue with it. Good to see you tested the waters for me.
You're welcome!
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:24 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As a mild country music fan myself (Gram Parsons, Flying Burrito Brothers, Byrds, Eagles, Rockingbirds) who visited the Country Music Hall of Fame in Nashville and had a fantastic time, I am mortified that a country music festival should be targeted. I get that many people hate this genre, but what have the concert attendees ever done to deserve this...?

It's just incomprehensible.
To the shooter it was just a big crowd of targets.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:26 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
-BLM nuts
-Muslim nuts
-Antifa nuts
.
What on earth would be the point of "BLM nuts" or "Antifa Nuts" killing people who are partying? When party goers (or in general: ordinary people and not leaders of state or big business) are killed by bombs or in mass shootings, you can almost always assume that either religious fanatics or right-wing nuts are the perpetrators!
I was at the Bologna Central Station back in 1980 only a couple of hours before right-wing extremists killed 85 people with a bomb. Two months later Neo-Nazis killed 13 people celebrating the Oktoberfest in Munich. In Denmark, during WW2, Nazi supporters would typically bomb movie houses or amusement parks like Tivoli!
Both religious fanatics and Nazis hate to see people have fun - unless it serves the purpose of recuperation for people who live to serve the state - as workers, soldiers or mothers: Kraft durch Freude!
I guess you've made it pretty obvious where you come from when you come up with this idea!
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:28 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
May I ask what "assault" means in this context? Does it mean "goes full auto"?
Yes, that's what the "assault" in "assault rifle" means essentially.
The ability to empty the magazine rapidly with one pull of the trigger.
Or on some weapons, a 3 or 5 round burst capability.

The term "assault weapon" is an invented term used in the gun control fight to describe a semi-auto rifle.

This is probably going to turn out to be an illegal conversion, given the laws in the USA, and the cost of an actual machine gun, but we will have to wait to be sure.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:29 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I wonder if Trump will say there was fault on both sides?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:30 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Nevada follows federal law actually, which heavily regulates machine guns.

Since it's very hard to get a machine gun, I'm going to guess that we have an illegal conversion.
They seem to be very easy to purchase.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:32 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
They seem to be very easy to purchase.
You have to have a lot of money, and wait a long time for the federal checks, to do it legally.

Much easier to just convert a cheap legal rifle.

Or possibly steal one.

Full auto weapon use in crimes is pretty much unheard of, as it's very difficult to obtain them.

The last use that I can remember, the North Hollywood deal, involved illegal conversions, IIRC.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:32 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Yes, that's what the "assault" in "assault rifle" means essentially.
No it has a lot to do with the round fired as well. Being an intermediate cartridge is more important to that.


One thing is clear, this will be great marketing for who ever managed to get their gun into this guys hands. This will be the shot in the arm they need after having a republican elected.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:34 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As a mild country music fan myself (Gram Parsons, Flying Burrito Brothers, Byrds, Eagles, Rockingbirds) who visited the Country Music Hall of Fame in Nashville and had a fantastic time, I am mortified that a country music festival should be targeted. I get that many people hate this genre, but what have the concert attendees ever done to deserve this...?

It's just incomprehensible.
Country music = rednecks. Rednecks = republicans. Republicans = Trump supporters.

Pure speculation on my part, of course.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:34 AM   #93
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It was a white guy so no big deal.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:35 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
No it has a lot to do with the round fired as well. Being an intermediate cartridge is more important to that.


One thing is clear, this will be great marketing for who ever managed to get their gun into this guys hands. This will be the shot in the arm they need after having a republican elected.
I would be very surprised if this was anything other than an illegal conversion.

Most likely of an AK.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:36 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As a mild country music fan myself (Gram Parsons, Flying Burrito Brothers, Byrds, Eagles, Rockingbirds) who visited the Country Music Hall of Fame in Nashville and had a fantastic time, I am mortified that a country music festival should be targeted. I get that many people hate this genre, but what have the concert attendees ever done to deserve this...?

It's just incomprehensible.
It is, indeed incomprehensible, but if we were trying to engage in irresponsible speculation.....here goes.

Option 1: He's traveling with a partner, i.e. a domestic companion, but not married, in Las Vegas. Maybe they had a domestic spat, and he responded by taking his guns and killing as many people as he could, which happened to be a country music festival.

That, to me, is the most likely scenario, but the investigation might tell us more.

Option 2: Country music fans are perceived to be Trump supporters. Crazy dude views over the top anti-Trump rhetoric, and decides to do something about it.

Seems unlikely, but if there is any sort of political angle, that could be it.

Option 3: Just plain unexplainable psychosis. God, or aliens, or the voices from the television, told him it was his destiny.

One thing we know for sure is that whatever his motives, he had the ability to put a whole lot of lead into the air in a very short time period.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:38 AM   #96
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Is it just me, or does the guy have "13" tattooed on his neck?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:39 AM   #97
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...ddock-11274144
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:44 AM   #98
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Fox are stating that they know what the motive is. Nothing to do with international terrorism. The shooter was known to police.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:46 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Is it just me, or does the guy have "13" tattooed on his neck?
Looks more like a scar than a tattoo.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:48 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
It was a white guy so no big deal.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:50 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
You have to have a lot of money, and wait a long time for the federal checks, to do it legally.

Much easier to just convert a cheap legal rifle.

Or possibly steal one.

Full auto weapon use in crimes is pretty much unheard of, as it's very difficult to obtain them.

The last use that I can remember, the North Hollywood deal, involved illegal conversions, IIRC.
From the little I have seen there is a thriving backyard industry putting out these mods in ways that skirt the law.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:50 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Yes, that's what the "assault" in "assault rifle" means essentially.
The ability to empty the magazine rapidly with one pull of the trigger.
Or on some weapons, a 3 or 5 round burst capability.

The term "assault weapon" is an invented term used in the gun control fight to describe a semi-auto rifle.
Ah, thanks. I hadn't made the distinction between the two.

I wonder if they'd call my machete an assault machete because of the hook.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:51 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
NRS 202.350  Manufacture, importation, possession or use of dangerous weapon or silencer; carrying concealed weapon without permit; penalties; issuance of permit to carry concealed weapon; exceptions.

1.  Except as otherwise provided in this section and NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, a person within this State shall not:

(a) Manufacture or cause to be manufactured, or import into the State, or keep, offer or expose for sale, or give, lend or possess any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sand-club, sandbag or metal knuckles;

(b) Manufacture or cause to be manufactured, or import into the State, or keep, offer or expose for sale, or give, lend, possess or use a machine gun or a silencer, unless authorized by federal law;...
The NRA (https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gun-laws/nevada/) says "It is lawful to possess, purchase or sell a machine gun or silencer that is legally registered and possessed in compliance with all federal laws and regulations." Maybe they're being simplistic?

Also it seems weird to me to ban something like a blackjack yet have such liberal gun laws.

Niall

eta - and thanks from me too, I hadn't realised assault rifle was the same as machine gun.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:51 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
If it was a Muslim the President of the United States would be furiously tweeting about how it proves the need for his Muslim ban. But since it was a white guy, nothing will be done.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:52 AM   #105
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Assault weapons are semi automatic variants of select fire military weapons marketed to consumers who want to play army with real guns.

Some models are relatively easy to convert to full automatic. The Las Vegas shooter most likely was using an AR15 or AK47 assault weapon converted to full automatic.

Last edited by Kestrel; 2nd October 2017 at 04:57 AM. Reason: Expand comment
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:53 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Tony is refering to the idea that it's only when brown Muslims commit crimes like this that the right-wing calls it terrorism or somesuch.

Not sure I agree with him, but I wish he had let partisan politics out of this thread. It's out of place.

ETA:

Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
If it was a Muslim the President of the United States would be furiously tweeting about how it proves the need for his Muslim ban. But since it was a white guy, nothing will be done.
See what I mean?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:55 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Tony is refering to the idea that it's only when brown Muslims commit crimes like this that the right-wing calls it terrorism or somesuch.

Not sure I agree with him, but I wish he had let partisan politics out of this thread. It's out of place.

ETA:



See what I mean?
It is the truth. Don't see any reason to pretend otherwise.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:56 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by RationalVetMed View Post
The NRA (https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gun-laws/nevada/) says "It is lawful to possess, purchase or sell a machine gun or silencer that is legally registered and possessed in compliance with all federal laws and regulations." Maybe they're being simplistic?

Also it seems weird to me to ban something like a blackjack yet have such liberal gun laws.

Niall

eta - and thanks from me too, I hadn't realised assault rifle was the same as machine gun.
No, Nevada just follows federal law, which makes it quite difficult to own a machine gun. Not impossible, but quite difficult. Most machine guns in Nevada are the ones owned by "pay to play" firing ranges.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:56 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
It is the truth. Don't see any reason to pretend otherwise.
It's the truth that water boils at 100 degrees, but this isn't the topic of the thread, Tony. Whether or not we agree on this is irrelevant. Take it to US politics, please.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 04:59 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
It's the truth that water boils at 100 degrees, but this isn't the topic of the thread, Tony. Whether or not we agree on this is irrelevant. Take it to US politics, please.
No . How this is responded to by our "leaders" is fully on topic.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:01 AM   #111
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https://twitter.com/THEPADS/following

Possibly the shooter's Twitter page. He hasn't made any tweets since setting up the account seven years ago, and I don't recognise any of the people he's following, but they most appear to be sportspeople and journalists. Nothing indicating a political viewpoint.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:03 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I wonder if Trump will say there was fault on both sides?
There are very fine people marching with the shooter.

Sent from mobile phone through Tapatalk
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:05 AM   #113
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I fear this is going to end up with closer to 100 dead.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:06 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
No, Nevada just follows federal law, which makes it quite difficult to own a machine gun. Not impossible, but quite difficult. Most machine guns in Nevada are the ones owned by "pay to play" firing ranges.
According to the BBC private gun sales aren't regulated.
Quote:
People are allowed to carry weapons and do not have to register themselves as a gun-owner.
Background checks are done when people buy guns, but they are also allowed to sell them privately.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:06 AM   #115
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In an interview on the BBC news, concert goers near the stage describe shooting with pauses, which must be when he was reloading. They moved during the silences and lay down when the firing restarted. A problem mentioned in the interview was that no one knew where the shooting was coming from. They were sent to the Mandalay Hotel for shelter.

I supposed since no one is going to tackle the problem, tactics on how to cope are the best alternative.

So a means of establishing the direction of fire is needed, so people can move away from it. Or maybe getting below the shooter was the better idea. The point is to find cover and hide.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:07 AM   #116
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I didn't think an assault rifle could put out full automatic fire for such a long time without over heating.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:07 AM   #117
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Quote:
All NFA items must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). Private owners wishing to purchase an NFA item must obtain approval from the ATF, pass an extensive background check to include submitting a photograph and fingerprints, fully register the firearm, receive ATF written permission before moving the firearm across state lines, and pay a tax.[21] The request to transfer ownership of an NFA item is made on an ATF Form 4.[22] There have been several unfavorable lawsuits where plaintiffs have been denied NFA approval for a transfer. These lawsuit include: Lomont v. O'Neill,[23] Westfall v. Miller,[24] and Steele v. National Branch.[25]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

Quote:
The ATF, as a representative of the U.S. and with authority from the National Firearms Act, can authorize the transfer of a machine gun to an unlicensed civilian. An unlicensed individual may acquire machine guns, with ATF approval.[4] The transferor must file an ATF application, which must be completed by both parties to the transfer:[4]

executed under penalties of perjury[5]
both parties must reside in the same state as the individual
pay a $200 transfer tax to ATF[6]
the application must include detailed information on the firearm and the parties to the transfer[5][7]
the transferee must certify on the application that he or she is not disqualified from possessing firearms on grounds specified in law
the transferee must submit with the application (1) two photographs taken within the past year; and (2) fingerprints[7]
the transferee must submit with the application (3) a copy of any state or local permit or license required to buy, possess, or acquire machine guns
an appropriate (local) law enforcement official must certify whether he or she has any information indicating that the firearm will be used for other than lawful purposes or that possession would violate state or federal law[7]
the transferee must, as part of the registration process, pass an extensive Federal Bureau of Investigation criminal background investigation.[8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firear...Protection_Act
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:08 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
I didn't think an assault rifle could put out full automatic fire for such a long time without over heating.
AKs are known to keep firing reliably with the wooden handguard on fire...
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:08 AM   #119
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It seems to me the singer just hauled ass off the stage once he realized what was going on. I dare say he may have used that public address system to warn the crowd.

As has been pointed out, this was a country music concert and it would be attended by mostly white Americans. I can't imagine a right wing white supremacist shooting up a white crowd unless it was a white guilt rally.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:09 AM   #120
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So did they catch him or kill him?
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