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Tags gun control issues , Las Vegas incidents , shooting incidents

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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:43 AM   #161
Nessie
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From the Guardian online

"Paddock may have shot himself, according to Undersheriff McMahill.

Speaking to CNN he added: “He was shot. I cannot tell you that it was the police that shot him. He may have self-inflicted that gun shot wound. Those details are still emerging.”

He added: “A number of long rifles were in that room. I would say there were at least eight guns up there.”
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:43 AM   #162
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The shooter's brother says this: "'He was just a guy. Something happened, he snapped or something, he was just a guy. He has no political affiliation, no religious affiliation, as far as we know. This wasn't a terror attack."

"He's my brother, we don't have a very close relationship but we talk occasionally. There's no rhyme or reason here, it makes no sense".
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:44 AM   #163
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The news is saying that they are firm on the number of 50 dead.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:44 AM   #164
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Unconfirmed:

Quote:
8 Guns in the room, two platforms and cameras to see when first responders got to hotel.

Killed himself.

Was dead when the cops blew down the door.

Room was identified when the smoke detectors went off, due to smoke from all the rounds being fired.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:45 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
They killed him in the hotel room.
New reports say suicide.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:46 AM   #166
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And the number of wounded is now more than 400.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:48 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
So the hotel knew a guest had checked in with tons of guns and ammo and that is obviously normal.

How would the hotel know if they were in his baggage?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:49 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
If it was a "bump fire" stock or device, those will be banned.

These devices use the gun's natural recoil to cause your finger to hit the trigger in rapid succession, mimicking full auto fire.

They are very difficult to control as far as hitting what you want to hit, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AolqBfdILg
If you are firing into a crowd that does not matter at all!!!
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:49 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
The shooter's brother says this: "'He was just a guy. Something happened, he snapped or something, he was just a guy. He has no political affiliation, no religious affiliation, as far as we know. This wasn't a terror attack."

"He's my brother, we don't have a very close relationship but we talk occasionally. There's no rhyme or reason here, it makes no sense".
He has no idea what his brother was up to, though.
Quote:
Eric said that he and Stephen, 64, lived on different coasts - Stephen's last address was in Mesquite, Nevada - and that they did not speak that often.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:49 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Which would still be very illegal in Nevada...or anywhere in the USA.
Only if he was not allowed to own them, otherwise it is perfectly legal. We call it the honor system.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:52 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
If you are firing into a crowd that does not matter at all!!!
That's a common misconception, IMO.

Sort of like firing at the flock and expecting to kill a bird.

Because the whole gun moves a lot with a bump fire stock, you could easily miss a large target.

But again, it's still early and the facts are changing.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:53 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think there needs to be some not jumping to conclusions

Sent from my SM-J500Y using Tapatalk
Excellent advice, not likely to happen.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:55 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
That's a common misconception, IMO.

Sort of like firing at the flock and expecting to kill a bird.

Because the whole gun moves a lot with a bump fire stock, you could easily miss a large target.

But again, it's still early and the facts are changing.
Yest somehow he seems to have killed 50 and injured 400.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:56 AM   #174
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Sheriff just said it is at least 50 dead.

Also that they believe the shooter killed himself prior to entry.

And that the women named was not involved.

Last edited by Tony Stark; 2nd October 2017 at 05:59 AM.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:58 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Which would still be very illegal in Nevada...or anywhere in the USA.
Illegal for the buyer. It's only illegal for a private seller when they know the buyer is prohibited from possessing a firearm.

Background checks exist because the people that are prohibited from buying firearms are also rather likely to lie about their status. The law also recognizes that firearms dealers cant recognize prohibited persons by just looking at them

Exempting private sales from background checks doesn't make a bit of sense. Private sellers can't recognize prohibited persons any better than licesced dealers.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:58 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
How would the hotel know if they were in his baggage?
Eight long guns would fit into how many bags weighing what? Plus all the ammo.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 05:59 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Eight long guns would fit into how many bags weighing what? Plus all the ammo.
I imagine he could have made several journeys from whatever car he was driving to his room, without anyone from the hotel noticing.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:02 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Only if he was not allowed to own them, otherwise it is perfectly legal. We call it the honor system.
NFA weapons are treated differently. They have to go through the BATFE.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:03 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
I imagine he could have made several journeys from whatever car he was driving to his room, without anyone from the hotel noticing.
Also, he was apparently in the room for four nights so plenty of time to go back and forth multiple times.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:05 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Illegal for the buyer. It's only illegal for a private seller when they know the buyer is prohibited from possessing a firearm.

Background checks exist because the people that are prohibited from buying firearms are also rather likely to lie about their status. The law also recognizes that firearms dealers cant recognize prohibited persons by just looking at them

Exempting private sales from background checks doesn't make a bit of sense. Private sellers can't recognize prohibited persons any better than licesced dealers.
NFA transfers have to through the BATFE.

You cannot legally buy and sell NFA devices in state like you can non-NFA devices.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/at...ter-9/download
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:05 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Multiple firing weapons were made illegal after Hungerford. Since 1988 no weapon can be legally possessed that can fire more than 3 shots without having to pause and reload.

The pause helps people to escape.
The post-Hungerford legislation prohibited semi-automatic or pump rifles in calibres other than .22 rimfire. Single shot, bolt-action, or lever action rifles are permitted in any calibre - or semi-automatic or pump .22 - are permitted, with no magazine retrictions (where applicable).

The three-shot limit only applies to pump, lever or semi-automatic shotguns held on a Shotgun Certificate; higher capacity versions must be held on a Firearms Certificate.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:06 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
NFA transfers have to through the BATFE.

You cannot legally buy and sell NFA devices in state like you can non-NFA devices.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/at...ter-9/download
You don't know that this was an NFA weapon.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:06 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Illegal for the buyer. It's only illegal for a private seller when they know the buyer is prohibited from possessing a firearm.

Background checks exist because the people that are prohibited from buying firearms are also rather likely to lie about their status. The law also recognizes that firearms dealers cant recognize prohibited persons by just looking at them

Exempting private sales from background checks doesn't make a bit of sense. Private sellers can't recognize prohibited persons any better than licesced dealers.
US gun laws have little to no effect on what weapons people can get hold of. In the USA if a bad guy wants a gun, it is no major problem.

Discussing gun laws is like discussing how effective a sticking plaster is for treating a leg blown off in an explosion.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:06 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
You don't know that this was an NFA weapon.
Police have now said they found around 10 weapons in the hotel room, so references to "a weapon" are incomplete. There were multiple weapons.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:07 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
NFA weapons are treated differently. They have to go through the BATFE.
Yes but this wasn't about NFA weapons. If there were 8 weapons I find it unlikely any were NFA weapons. And you seem to be the only one suggesting that they had to have been.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:09 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Condolences Americans what a tragedy.
I'm an American, and I echo that sentiment.

Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Also, he was apparently in the room for four nights so plenty of time to go back and forth multiple times.
And also, a local resident. No problem with transporting the weapons.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:09 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
The post-Hungerford legislation prohibited semi-automatic or pump rifles in calibres other than .22 rimfire. Single shot, bolt-action, or lever action rifles are permitted in any calibre - or semi-automatic or pump .22 - are permitted, with no magazine retrictions (where applicable).

The three-shot limit only applies to pump, lever or semi-automatic shotguns held on a Shotgun Certificate; higher capacity versions must be held on a Firearms Certificate.
The point being there is more time to escape and harder for mass shootings to take place. I know that did not stop the multiple shooting in Cumbria. But, if Bird had started to shoot into a crowd at a folk festival with the guns he had, most would get away.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:10 AM   #188
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Again from the Guardian online;

"He also revealed that Paddock had been staying in the room since last Thursday.
We have information that he has been there [in the hotel room] since the 28 September. I have no idea whether he prevented the house keepers from entering the room or not. That is a matter for continued investigation."
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:11 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
And also, a local resident. No problem with transporting the weapons.
I was going to say that he lived 80 miles away, but I guess in Nevada that might well count as "local".
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:11 AM   #190
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Good morning LTC8K6
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
SKS is not full auto as far as I know, and it has a 10 round clip-fed magazine. So it would be slow to fire and slow to reload.

I'm guessing the main weapon is an altered civilian AK.
While they don't come full auto, there are plenty of altered SKS out there by people. Much slower rate of fire from what I've heard. Also, some can become full auto simply from wear and tear. Again, it wouldn't be as reliable sounding as what I've heard in the videos of this. I only mentioned the SKS because it's the only thing I've ever heard full auto and it was very slow.
In either case, this is a very sad event no matter what murder used.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:11 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
You don't know that this was an NFA weapon.
I am going by the audio of the gunfire.

It's clearly a machine gun of some sort, imo.

The only non-NFA weapon it could reasonably be is a bump fire stock, though.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:12 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
So he was possibly not reloading, but picking up another gun?
BBC now saying "eight rifles." If some or all of them were fully-automatic (actual, modified, or imitated), switching between them would lessen the over-heating issue of sustained fire, but he'd still need to reload (unless he was helped).

Last edited by Information Analyst; 2nd October 2017 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:12 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I am going by the audio of the gunfire.

It's clearly a machine gun of some sort, imo.

The only non-NFA weapon it could reasonably be is a bump fire stock, though.
Exactly. It could be a bump fire stock AR15.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:13 AM   #194
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More than 400 injured now. But that does not mean they were shot. I presume many were hurt trying to escape.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:14 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by JPK View Post
Good morning. Listening to how fast and consistent the rate of fire was, I'd suspect it wasn't a bump fire. I could be wrong of course. I have very limited, like practically no experience with hearing, in person, a full auto weapon other than an old SKS. It wasn't one of them. This was very fast in comparison. I would suspect someone on here with military experience could make a reasonable guestimation of what was being used.
When comparing the rate of fire in this vid (on Twitter) of the mass shooting with the one in this vid (on Youtube) of an bump-fire AR15 with drum magazines, I can't hear any obvious difference. In fact I find the sounds eerily similar.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:16 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yes but this wasn't about NFA weapons. If there were 8 weapons I find it unlikely any were NFA weapons. And you seem to be the only one suggesting that they had to have been.
No, I have been saying they were most likely illegal conversions.

It's very unlikely that they were traditional NFA machine guns, as they are tracked and registered and cost a lot of money.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:17 AM   #197
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Good morning Alphaba

Originally Posted by Alphaba View Post
When comparing the rate of fire in this vid (on Twitter) of the mass shooting with the one in this vid (on Youtube) of an bump-fire AR15 with drum magazines, I can't hear any obvious difference. In fact I find the sounds eerily similar.
Thanks for that. I must have seen some pretty crappy bump fire stocks.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:18 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
That's a common misconception, IMO.

Sort of like firing at the flock and expecting to kill a bird.

Because the whole gun moves a lot with a bump fire stock, you could easily miss a large target.

But again, it's still early and the facts are changing.
If I read Google.maps correctly the crowd was about 300 meters from the shooter away. That is really not that far, considering the size of the target in this case.

The first shot I ever made was with an Uzi and was almost a hit at a distance of 100 meters on a torso target. (10 cm high)
Granted. I shot single shot. But it was an Uzi with a tiny barrel and first shot I ever made (that's what you get in one of these European countries), so that was without any practise whatsoever. Something i I expect an American to have a whole lot more of..
With a distance of three times a great, but a target much, much bigger. No. it is really not that hard to hit.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:20 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
It was a white guy so no big deal.
Yes, I have also noticed that nobody thinks it's a big deal.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:20 AM   #200
LTC8K6
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Originally Posted by Alphaba View Post
When comparing the rate of fire in this vid (on Twitter) of the mass shooting with the one in this vid (on Youtube) of an bump-fire AR15 with drum magazines, I can't hear any obvious difference. In fact I find the sounds eerily similar.
Bump fire devices are typically unreliable.

It's usually hard to get more than a few round burst with one.

Not impossible, mind you.

It's also fairly easy to make a bump fire device out of scrap wood.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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