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Tags gun control issues , Las Vegas incidents , shooting incidents

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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:21 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Yes, I have also noticed that nobody thinks it's a big deal.

Nobody with any power will think it is a big enough deal to actually do anything.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:22 AM   #202
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This is madness:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesth...-the-las-vegas
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:23 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
No, I have been saying they were most likely illegal conversions.
Which the basis for can be picked up anonymously online perfectly legally. At least for the seller. Which was what you were taking issue with. So now you agree that these weapons most likely could have been bought at a gun show with no background check?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:23 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
If I read Google.maps correctly the crowd was about 300 meters from the shooter away. That is really not that far, considering the size of the target in this case.

The first shot I ever made was with an Uzi and was almost a hit at a distance of 100 meters on a torso target. (10 cm high)
Granted. I shot single shot. But it was an Uzi with a tiny barrel and first shot I ever made (that's what you get in one of these European countries), so that was without any practise whatsoever. Something i I expect an American to have a whole lot more of..
With a distance of three times a great, but a target much, much bigger. No. it is really not that hard to hit.
Look at some bump fire videos and see how much the gun moves around, particularly the barrel.

For bump fire, the whole gun moves backwards and forwards quite a bit. It slides back and forth.

Much different than an actual machine gun.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:23 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Bump fire devices are typically unreliable.

It's usually hard to get more than a few round burst with one.

Not impossible, mind you.

It's also fairly easy to make a bump fire device out of scrap wood.
https://youtu.be/CsHASQGDsBI
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:24 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Which the basis for can be picked up anonymously online perfectly legally. At least for the seller. Which was what you were taking issue with. So now you agree that these weapons most likely could have been bought at a gun show with no background check?
The parts to convert are NFA items as far as I know. The conversion is illegal everywhere as far as I know.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:25 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Yes, you can find such misleading advertisements.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:27 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Yes, you can find such misleading advertisements.
So a video proving you wrong must be an ad. Gotcha.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:29 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
The shooter was known to police.
Why do have a feeling this is do to a history of domestic violence.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:29 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Why do have a feeling this is do to a history of domestic violence.
I had the same thought, though I do wonder what pushes someone to shooting people like that.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:29 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The parts to convert are NFA items as far as I know. The conversion is illegal everywhere as far as I know.
We will have to wait and see what was required.

And then there are all those fun ways around it like the new short barreled shotgun which legally isn't because even though it fires 12 gauge shells from a short barrel it never had a full length barrel so it is not an NFA weapon, it is just a legal firearm.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:30 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Why do have a feeling this is do to a history of domestic violence.
Because a vast majority of such shooters do?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:33 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
So a video proving you wrong must be an ad. Gotcha.
What are you talking about?

He's only a few feet away...

At 100 yards he would be lucky to hit the correct house with a few rounds, let alone at 300 yards.

Plus the 5.56 round is relatively light on recoil compared to an AK.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:37 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
What are you talking about?

He's only a few feet away...

At 100 yards he would be lucky to hit the correct house with a few rounds, let alone at 300 yards.
He was about as as accurate with the bump fire gun as with the NFA gun.

Quote:
Plus the 5.56 round is relatively light on recoil compared to an AK.
How do you know it was an AK and not a 5.56/.223?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:38 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
We will have to wait and see what was required.

And then there are all those fun ways around it like the new short barreled shotgun which legally isn't because even though it fires 12 gauge shells from a short barrel it never had a full length barrel so it is not an NFA weapon, it is just a legal firearm.
Yes, there are short barreled rifles that are legal because they were made that way, such as a Mare's Leg. Put a shoulder stock on it and it's now illegal...
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:40 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
He was about as as accurate with the bump fire gun as with the NFA gun.
I'm very accurate at 10 feet, too!

Small differences at 10 feet become huge differences at 300 feet, as I'm sure you know.

Sounded like an AK to me.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:41 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
He was about as as accurate with the bump fire gun as with the NFA gun.



How do you know it was an AK and not a 5.56/.223?
He doesn't, he has no idea what action or caliber was used.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:43 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Look at some bump fire videos and see how much the gun moves around, particularly the barrel.

For bump fire, the whole gun moves backwards and forwards quite a bit. It slides back and forth.

Much different than an actual machine gun.
What is your point, if I may ask?
That he couldn't have hit that many people? Sorry to say, but he did.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:46 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I'm very accurate at 10 feet, too!

Small differences at 10 feet become huge differences at 300 feet, as I'm sure you know.
Nonsense. If there was a huge difference in accuracy it would show at short distance too.

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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:47 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
What is your point, if I may ask?
That he couldn't have hit that many people? Sorry to say, but he did.
It seems to be that because these weapons were already illegal we don't need any change in laws to address this shooting.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:49 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
We've seen examples of those fakes here.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:50 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
What is your point, if I may ask?
That he couldn't have hit that many people? Sorry to say, but he did.
My point is that I don't think it was a bump fire stock.

That's all.

He apparently had 10 firearms in the room, but we don't know if he used one, some, or all of them.

I would guess that he shot himself with a pistol.

Just have to wait until solid info comes in, I guess.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:51 AM   #223
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This is a false flag operation that will give Trump cover to invade Puerto Rico
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:52 AM   #224
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The information on the weaponry used will come out, there's no doubt of that. If I remember my Army training -- M16 on auto and the M60 machine gun -- we were taught to spray not aim. Based on what I saw in Viet Nam, that's a very effective tactic.

But having watched the linked video, this was really sickening. To go to a music festival and have your wife, son or daughter wind up shot dead in front of your eyes is gut wrenching, to say the least. But what the hey, let the jokes begin!
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:53 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It seems to be that because these weapons were already illegal we don't need any change in laws to address this shooting.
That is most likely the case. The first part, anyway.

It's possible that he has owned the weapons for a long time and none of them were illegal in Nevada or under federal law.

I actually hate bump fire devices and hope they are banned.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:54 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The information on the weaponry used will come out, there's no doubt of that. If I remember my Army training -- M16 on auto and the M60 machine gun -- we were taught to spray not aim. Based on what I saw in Viet Nam, that's a very effective tactic.

But having watched the linked video, this was really sickening. To go to a music festival and have your wife, son or daughter wind up shot dead in front of your eyes is gut wrenching, to say the least. But what the hey, let the jokes begin!
I aimed with the M16, but found "walking" to work best with the M60.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:55 AM   #227
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Bump fire devices seems to be the sort of thing that's invented by a lunatic for no apparent reason, or to get around laws.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:00 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Bump fire devices seems to be the sort of thing that's invented by a lunatic for no apparent reason, or to get around laws.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlFZOBiWRko

The older bearded guy committed suicide later in life.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:06 AM   #229
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According to a BBC correspondent;

"This has been a mass shooting which has shocked Las Vegas - it has stunned this city.

It is very clear it will be an event that will stun the USA too, a country in which, regrettably, such mass shootings - even if on a lesser scale - are not uncommon."

Wrong. The USA will not be stunned. It will be mildly perturbed. Stunned would result in action being taken to reduce the chances of this happening. Mildly perturbed results in no action, so we can look forward to the next record breaking mass shooting. With lots of little mass shootings in-between to keep us occupied.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:11 AM   #230
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POTUS Donald J Trump sending 'warmest condolences' by tweet boobs again...?

'Warmest'? Really? Should it not be 'sincerest' or 'deepest'?

'Warmest' is best associated with 'congratulations'.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:14 AM   #231
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A horrible and despicable act.

I notice that there have been some quotes from family relatives about how the perpetrator was just a normal guy, but I think family testimonies are likely to be pretty worthless unless they are negative or unwittingly revealing.

I expect when the fog of war clears we'll find out more about this guy, either the types of people he associated with, or some kind of drug dependence (either alcohol, illegal drugs or maybe anti-depressants or some combination of those).
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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:15 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
POTUS Donald J Trump sending 'warmest condolences' by tweet boobs again...?

'Warmest'? Really? Should it not be 'sincerest' or 'deepest'?

'Warmest' is best associated with 'congratulations'.
Look with Trump you have to view any letter of condolence where he isn't talking about how great he is at seducing married women as a win for acting presidential.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:16 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
POTUS Donald J Trump sending 'warmest condolences' by tweet boobs again...?

'Warmest'? Really? Should it not be 'sincerest' or 'deepest'?

'Warmest' is best associated with 'congratulations'.
He has accidentally revealed he is not that bothered by what has happened.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:16 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
POTUS Donald J Trump sending 'warmest condolences' by tweet boobs again...?

'Warmest'? Really? Should it not be 'sincerest' or 'deepest'?

'Warmest' is best associated with 'congratulations'.
Trump's a buffoon, and there are numerous things to take him to task with, but let's let this one go. It's a clumsy wording, right enough, but people do say clumsy things at times like this. Can we at least refuse to make him part of the story for once?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:17 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
POTUS Donald J Trump sending 'warmest condolences' by tweet boobs again...?

'Warmest'? Really? Should it not be 'sincerest' or 'deepest'?

'Warmest' is best associated with 'congratulations'.
The Donald isn't the bestest when it comes to the words, so I'd attribute it to his ignorance of such subtleties so it's not surprising.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:17 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
He has accidentally revealed he is not that bothered by what has happened.
Give him some slack! At least he wasn't talking about himself or his electoral victory this time.

One could say that he almost sounded presidential...


...but that someone wouldn't be me.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:18 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Trump's a buffoon, and there are numerous things to take him to task with, but let's let this one go. It's a clumsy wording, right enough, but people do say clumsy things at times like this. Can we at least refuse to make him part of the story for once?
Give it a few hours. Trump will make himself part of the story.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:18 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
He hit 150+ people fairly far away from him in a smallish area, I think.

If so, I'd say it was probably accurately aimed fire.

Most people who are inexperienced with a machine gun could easily miss a person 15 yards away from them.
150+ out of what, 30000? He had a huge target.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:20 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
So the hotel knew a guest had checked in with tons of guns and ammo and that is obviously normal.

How would the hotel know? Have you ever had your luggage searched at a hotel?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:23 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
A horrible and despicable act.

I notice that there have been some quotes from family relatives about how the perpetrator was just a normal guy, but I think family testimonies are likely to be pretty worthless unless they are negative or unwittingly revealing.

I expect when the fog of war clears we'll find out more about this guy, either the types of people he associated with, or some kind of drug dependence (either alcohol, illegal drugs or maybe anti-depressants or some combination of those).
Gambling addiction can cause catastrophic depression.

'Ooh Las Vegas..."
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