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Tags abortion incidents , abortion issues , hypocrisy charges , Pennsylvania politics , Tim Murphy

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Old 4th October 2017, 03:20 AM   #1
ponderingturtle
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Its different when its your side piece

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/politi...ion/index.html

So do we need to change it to abortion is OK when the life of the mother is at risk, rape, incest and when it is a law makers side piece?
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Old 4th October 2017, 03:26 AM   #2
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And in breaking news, politician is a hypocrite.
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Old 4th October 2017, 03:58 AM   #3
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Guy sounds like a real asshat judging by the memo (linked in your article) that his Chief of Staff wrote.

Other than that, what Fagin said. No shortage of hypocrisy on the hill.
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Old 4th October 2017, 05:16 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
And in breaking news, politician is a hypocrite.
And a typical republicker piece of lying fecal matter. As are they all lying pieces of fecal matter - only in the job for graft and BJs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 5th October 2017, 05:10 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
And in breaking news, politician is a hypocrite.
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Old 5th October 2017, 06:39 AM   #6
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There are a few dimensions to this but I want to focus on one.

It is not hypocritical to be in favor of laws against activity you engage in.

Humans respond to incentives
Laws are incentives
Murphy is a human.

It would have been hypocritical for him to say laws were unneeded because character was enough to stop abortions. Instead, he is good example of why the laws he proposed would be needed.
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Old 5th October 2017, 07:15 AM   #7
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I can buy that argument in certain situations. The polluting company that supports anti-polluting laws, because the only reason they pollute is that all of their competition pollutes and not polluting is an additional cost that would not allow them to compete fairly with the other companies, for example.

Here? No. FFS.
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Old 5th October 2017, 07:17 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
There are a few dimensions to this but I want to focus on one.

It is not hypocritical to be in favor of laws against activity you engage in.

Humans respond to incentives
Laws are incentives
Murphy is a human.

It would have been hypocritical for him to say laws were unneeded because character was enough to stop abortions. Instead, he is good example of why the laws he proposed would be needed.
I disagree. Not all laws are the same, and not all justifications for laws are the same.

One way of looking at this is the distinction between malum in se versus malum prohibitum: things that are intrinsically wrong versus things that are wrong because they are prohibited.

For example, suppose that your tax rate is 20%. If you only pay 18%, that's illegal. But it's malum prohibitum. The proper functioning of society requires most people to not commit malum prohibitum crimes, but there's nothing intrinsically wrong about paying 18% instead of 20% taxes. Likewise, if you think the tax rate should be 25% because you think the government needs more funding to pay for some program you want, it's not hypocritical to only pay 20% when that's what the law requires. There's no intrinsic moral value connected to either tax rate, only practical considerations. And you can't achieve the purely practical goals of a higher general tax rate by just paying more yourself.

But the commonly used justifications for prohibiting abortion frame it as malum in se. It isn't just practical considerations (such as a desired population growth rate, or stimulation for the pediatrics industry, etc) driving that push, but moral ones. And if you think that it's malum in se, then to do it yourself is indeed hypocritical.

Hypocrisy is a very normal human trait, nothing remarkable at all, but I think this still qualifies.
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Old 5th October 2017, 07:26 AM   #9
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Bob's post and Zigs response are exactly why i come to this site.
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Old 5th October 2017, 07:32 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
I can buy that argument in certain situations. The polluting company that supports anti-polluting laws, because the only reason they pollute is that all of their competition pollutes and not polluting is an additional cost that would not allow them to compete fairly with the other companies, for example.

Here? No. FFS.
Why would you apply it pollution but not murder?
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Old 5th October 2017, 09:47 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
Bob's post and Zigs response are exactly why i come to this site.
You left out an apostrophe and didn't capitalize "i."
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:04 AM   #12
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You get used to hypocrisy in politics,but Murphy takes it about as far as you can go.
Even Mr. Pecksniff would find it outrageous.
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:35 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You get used to hypocrisy in politics,but Murphy takes it about as far as you can go.
Even Mr. Pecksniff would find it outrageous.
This has nothing to do with politics, it is the basics of the anti abortion movement as a whole.
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:38 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
This has nothing to do with politics, it is the basics of the anti abortion movement as a whole.
LOL!
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Old 5th October 2017, 11:11 AM   #15
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At least his "side piece" was female, unlike several other prominent advocates of "morality".
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Old 5th October 2017, 11:13 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
At least his "side piece" was female, unlike several other prominent advocates of "morality".
But then the whole massive hypocrisy of the pro life community wouldn't be exposed.
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Old 5th October 2017, 12:24 PM   #17
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That guy looks like Michael Fassbender as the villain in a Die Hard movie.
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Old 5th October 2017, 12:27 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
You left out an apostrophe and didn't capitalize "i."

So you're trying to give him a reason to leave this site, now?
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Old 5th October 2017, 01:46 PM   #19
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what a *********** sociopath.
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Old 5th October 2017, 04:16 PM   #20
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Abortion is a complex and difficult moral topic, so for guidance I turn to one of the more thoughtful modern philosophers when she sang:

Quote:
I'm a baby killer
Baby killing makes me horny
Alien's inside me
Gonna squash it like I'm Sigourney

Get dat fetus, kill dat fetus
Get dat fetus, kill dat fetus
Brrap brrap, pew pew
Brrap brrap, pew pew

I'm a dolphin doll face
Bitch is in my crawlspace
Have abortions sometimes?
No, I'ma have abortions always

Get dat fetus, kill dat fetus
Get dat fetus, kill dat fetus
Brrap brrap, pew pew
Brrap brrap, pew pew

And sometimes I do have doubts and it's hard to sleep
I think about my child's heartbeat and oh it makes me weep
I hope and pray to God my little fetus has a soul
Because I want it to feel pain when I eject it from my hole
Brrap brrap brrap brrap
*dolphin noise*
--Sextina Aquafina, "Get Dat Fetus, Kill Dat Fetus (Brrap Brrap Pew Pew)"
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Old 5th October 2017, 04:35 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Abortion is a complex and difficult moral topic, so for guidance I turn to one of the more thoughtful modern philosophers when she sang:



--Sextina Aquafina, "Get Dat Fetus, Kill Dat Fetus (Brrap Brrap Pew Pew)"
I prefer "Every Sperm Is Sacred" myself...
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Old 5th October 2017, 04:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
what a *********** sociopath.
Not a sociopath but a sinner.
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Old 5th October 2017, 04:49 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I prefer "Every Sperm Is Sacred" myself...
I too prefer the lighter touch, ridiculing the ridiculous to get a point across.
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Old 5th October 2017, 05:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You get used to hypocrisy in politics,but Murphy takes it about as far as you can go.
It's worked so far.

Quote:
Even Mr. Pecksniff would find it outrageous.
One imaginary vote doesn't count for much. What matters is how many real voters are outraged by Murphy's behaviour (according to one interpretation of the messages) and how many are outraged by the media's faked interpretation.
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Old 5th October 2017, 05:29 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
It's worked so far.


One imaginary vote doesn't count for much. What matters is how many real voters are outraged by Murphy's behaviour (according to one interpretation of the messages) and how many are outraged by the media's faked interpretation.
Murphy has announced he is not running for reelection, so we will never know.....
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Old 5th October 2017, 05:44 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Murphy has announced he is not running for reelection, so we will never know.....
Slightly off topic, but that reminds me of Mr. Owl:
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I AGREE
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Old 5th October 2017, 05:54 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Murphy has announced he is not running for reelection, so we will never know.....
Threadkill. And no doubt a comfortable retirement for Murphy - hardly the first to base a successful life-plan on hypocrisy.
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Old 5th October 2017, 05:56 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
At least his "side piece" was female, unlike several other prominent advocates of "morality".
You could say the same about Elliot Spitzer
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Old 5th October 2017, 06:25 PM   #29
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Or John Edwards.
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Old 5th October 2017, 06:34 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But then the whole massive hypocrisy of the pro life community wouldn't be exposed.
I wish I believed that that is true, because it can be easier to fight hypocrisy than zeal. Alas, I suspect a significant portion of the pro life community is earnest, at least until circumstances hit them head on.
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Old 5th October 2017, 06:38 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
You could say the same about Elliot Spitzer
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Or John Edwards.
But they're liberals, or at least Democrats. They don't run primarily on Christian morality.
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Old 5th October 2017, 08:38 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Why would you apply it pollution but not murder?
Well, for starters I don't call it murder.

Similar to the tax situation in Zig's post, as only one person paying more tax than everyone else isn't going to do much for the tax coffers, so only one company polluting less than everyone else isn't going to do much for the watershed. You need everyone to agree to make and follow the rule for the rule to do what you want it to do. The river is still polluted if you stop and the other three guys don't. The bridge is still not funded if you pay 40% and the other million people don't.

Abortions happen in discrete units. The bun continues to bake if you don't get an abortion, no matter what anyone else does with their buns.

Reading your post again it sounds more like you'd mean, for example, a gambling addict who gambles but wants gambling outlawed because he'd like to stop but as long as it's available he will not stop. On that one I can't really square it with abortion, for instance the gambler probably isn't calling other gamblers immoral. And for those who do view it as murder it seems so completely strange to me that they'd go around essentially handwaving it half the time.

Last edited by Lithrael; 5th October 2017 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 5th October 2017, 08:42 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
But they're liberals, or at least Democrats. They don't run primarily on Christian morality.
Spitzer cracked down on prostitution, so for him it's exactly as hypocritical.
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Old 5th October 2017, 08:47 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I wish I believed that that is true, because it can be easier to fight hypocrisy than zeal. Alas, I suspect a significant portion of the pro life community is earnest, at least until circumstances hit them head on.
Plenty of pro life people have proven the sincerity of their beliefs under trying circumstances. This need to believe it's ALL a sham is peculiar and counter-factual If you think the position is wrong, then you shouldn't need to claim it's hypocritical.
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Old 5th October 2017, 09:22 PM   #35
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It also turns out that his Chief of Staff also appears to be a sociopath.
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Old 5th October 2017, 09:39 PM   #36
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This goes beyond hypocrisy. As a member of Congress, Murphy was actively participating in the chipping away of abortion rights.

It's one thing to engage in an activity you claim is immoral. It's another thing entirely to engage in an activity while trying to take away other people's rights to do the same.
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Old 5th October 2017, 09:43 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
This goes beyond hypocrisy. As a member of Congress, Murphy was actively participating in the chipping away of abortion rights.

It's one thing to engage in an activity you claim is immoral. It's another thing entirely to engage in an activity while trying to take away other people's rights to do the same.
He would also be taking away his right to do it.
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:28 PM   #38
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It's the Trump era. Why didn't he just pivot his re-election campaign to the purely misogynistic position of believing women shouldn't have agency over their own bodies? That would solve his hypocrisy problem while being more honest.
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Old 6th October 2017, 01:20 PM   #39
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Murphy and Harvey Weinstein have one thing in common:Both are hypocrites of the first water.
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Old 6th October 2017, 01:34 PM   #40
plague311
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
At least his "side piece" was female, unlike several other prominent advocates of "morality".
Which brings up a random question. Is it "worse" to be gay or to encourage someone to kill one of their DNA blobs?
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