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Tags obesity , obesity issues

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Old 10th October 2017, 12:01 AM   #1
The Atheist
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Obesity Medical Costs to Hit $1 tn by 2025

Link

And still people normalise obesity. We even have a "Fat Studies" course running as a legitimate qualification at a university here. Typically, it is being run and promoted by an American. A very large American ... woman?..

The CEO of Britain's NHS has already claimed obesity threatens to bankrupt the organisation.

I see people daily who are unable to walk normally because their thighs are so fat they have to swing their leg out to get past the other.

And some of them are school children.

How about we start shock ads in the way we did in the second half of the 20th century to inhibit smoking? Maybe if kids watched horrendously fat people's bodies being lifted into a grave by crane because it's too heavy for people to lift might encourage one or two of them to tell mummy to stop feeding them crap.

At the very least, let's stop pretending fat is ok, normal or anything else. Classify it as a mental illness if you like, but we have to stop saying it's ok to be the size of a bus.

Obesity, in combination with the baby boom bulge, is going to bankrupt everything, not just hospital services.
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Old 10th October 2017, 12:16 AM   #2
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Old 10th October 2017, 01:17 AM   #3
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Obesity and obesity-related illnesses are putting pressure on medial services and medial budgets. Then again so are a lot of things.

As more and more people become obese then by definition obesity will become normalised. The information out there is by no means conclusive. Various studies have shown that being "ideal" weight offers little or no health benefits over being "obese" - and in some cases there are health negative implications for being "ideal" weight.

Attempting to demonise people who are overweight and use shock tactics are unlikely to work IMO. OTOH in the UK there have been nudge-based information campaigns about weight and lifestyle which have been running for years but we're getting heavier.
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Old 10th October 2017, 01:26 AM   #4
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Dr Cat Pause????

The Fat Studies degree looks fake to me. Not buying it. The lecturer's name is too ridiculous to be true.
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Old 10th October 2017, 01:34 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Dr Cat Pause????

The Fat Studies degree looks fake to me. Not buying it. The lecturer's name is too ridiculous to be true.
It's a pretty elaborate hoax, if not true. Her publications including academic papers and books are listed, and a quick search for one of them finds Amazon in on the fakery:

https://www.amazon.com/Queering-Fat-.../dp/140946542X
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Old 10th October 2017, 02:02 AM   #6
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Deleted - it's in the o/p
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Old 10th October 2017, 02:14 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Dr Cat Pause????

The Fat Studies degree looks fake to me. Not buying it. The lecturer's name is too ridiculous to be true.
Oh, welcome back!
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Old 10th October 2017, 02:22 AM   #8
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Obesity is rarely a mental illness. There are cases where people eat to excess, triggered by a psychological event - for example, many survivors of the Holocaust - or a life event set back.

IMV obesity is due to sheer gluttony (greed). I have read a few books on this and that is the general conclusion of the guy who wrote 'Fat America'.

I think ready meals and people not cooking any more is a large factor, together with snacking throughout the day. I knew one (very lovely) woman who liked to eat a bowl of cornflakes throughout the day (she suffered diabetes and obesity and died relatively young).

I remember when I was a child, my mother cooked proper meals out of basic ingredients (she used to pick up some mackerel from the fishmongers once a week) and visit the greengrocers for fresh vegetables.

I was fashionably skinny throughout my youth.

These days, at 173 cm and 70 kg, I do have to watch out the weight doesn't creep up on me, but yes, people are so much fatter than before.
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Old 10th October 2017, 03:12 AM   #9
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When you are old and gray and frail and in need of care, your nurses will be soooo grateful if you have normal weight and thus are easy to wash, clothe and transfer!
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Old 10th October 2017, 07:33 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
When you are old and gray and frail and in need of care, your nurses will be soooo grateful if you have normal weight and thus are easy to wash, clothe and transfer!
Especially if the nurses are a bunch of fatties.
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Old 10th October 2017, 09:06 AM   #11
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"Welcome to Wendy's, may I take your order?"

"I would like the Dave's triple with cheese combo meal, large sized, with a diet coke. Add in a chicken sandwich and a large frosty. Plus a Junior bacon cheeseburger. Oh, do you accept EBT cards?"

"Thank you for calling the Affordable Care Act sign up hotline, how may I help you?"

"I would like to apply for my free subsidized, cannot be turned down for pre-existing conditions gold health care plan. It is my right."

"I would be happy to assist you. Before we get started on signing you up, do you have any questions?"

"Yes, make sure my doctor's office is within one half mile of a Wendy's, McDonalds, Taco Bell, and of course, KFC."

"I can definitely help you with that today. You are exactly the type of person who, previously, before Obama came along, could not have or would have paid more for their rightfully theirs health care. Welcome aboard."
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Old 10th October 2017, 09:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by bytewizard View Post
"Welcome to Wendy's, may I take your order?"

"I would like the Dave's triple with cheese combo meal, large sized, with a diet coke. Add in a chicken sandwich and a large frosty. Plus a Junior bacon cheeseburger. Oh, do you accept EBT cards?"

"Thank you for calling the Affordable Care Act sign up hotline, how may I help you?"

"I would like to apply for my free subsidized, cannot be turned down for pre-existing conditions gold health care plan. It is my right."

"I would be happy to assist you. Before we get started on signing you up, do you have any questions?"

"Yes, make sure my doctor's office is within one half mile of a Wendy's, McDonalds, Taco Bell, and of course, KFC."

"I can definitely help you with that today. You are exactly the type of person who, previously, before Obama came along, could not have or would have paid more for their rightfully theirs health care. Welcome aboard."
Your oh so biting satire conveniently overlooks the fact that those who rail against Obamacare also rail agaisnt any kind of health initiative as an affront to personal liberty.

To wit:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb...esity-20110227
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Old 10th October 2017, 10:04 AM   #13
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Sure- thin people think fat people have only themselves to blame and therefore should pay more for their health insurance. People who don't drink alcohol think people who do have only themselves to blame and therefore should pay more for their health insurance. People who don't smoke think that people who do (a really high health risk there) have only themselves to blame and therefore should pay more for their health insurance. People who exercise religiously.... The list goes on and on, and of course everyone puts themselves in the low payment category and thinks it's the others who are voluntarily ruining their health and should pay higher premiums. If one combines all the "bad behavior" categories who should pay more probably only a few monks somewhere in Tibet qualify for the cheapest payment rates!

First, it is not so easy to define voluntary behavior. For example, metabolism is very complicated and becoming fat (or staying fat, or becoming fat again after losing weight) is not just due to gluttony. For a variety of reasons it is extraordinarily difficult for many people to not gain, and once gained, to lose weight. It is like telling a depressed person to just cheer up. Most fat people know there are fat, are embarrassed or even horrified by it, and want nothing more than to lose that extra weight. But for a variety of emotional and physiological reasons they cannot. Probably part of this reflects the fact we evolved from a feast and famine existence and our programmed approach to food doesn't work well in an environment where food is constantly available. And I point this out as a skinny person.

The same is true of other addictions and other "poor" life styles. They are part of human nature and not simply things that one can use to shame others, to blame others, and to "make them pay" for "their own poor choices." We all have something about us that increases our risks of certain diseases- sometimes it is genetic, sometimes it is our environment or workplace, and sometimes it is one or more of these "voluntary" behaviors that are not all that voluntary. Health insurance is a way of pooling these risks, and I will help pay for the risks of the people who cannot lose weight if they will pay my risk of a reoccurring neoplasia. It seems fair enough to me.
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Old 10th October 2017, 10:20 AM   #14
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We can't look at medical costs in isolation. What are the savings in US social security and similar programs in other countries due to obesity? Based on the numbers I'm seeing, there is a net savings in the US even using worst case estimates for increased lifetime medical costs. And, the greater the level of obesity, the greater the savings. There may be other losses to the US economy due to lower productivity, etc.
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Old 10th October 2017, 10:53 AM   #15
Hubert Cumberdale
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post

First, it is not so easy to define voluntary behavior. For example, metabolism is very complicated and becoming fat (or staying fat, or becoming fat again after losing weight) is not just due to gluttony.

It is due to gluttony.

There might be an underlying cause (emotional problems, eating disorders and so on), but obesity is caused by consuming a significant excess of calories over an extended period of time.

This is whats commonly understood to be gluttony.

And we need to stop making excuses for it.
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:00 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Various studies have shown that being "ideal" weight offers little or no health benefits over being "obese" - and in some cases there are health negative implications for being "ideal" weight.
Sure, if you go by BMI, which doesn't distinguish between fat and muscle. So you can be "obese" with low body fat, and you can be "normal" with moderate body fat.

But being fat is unambiguously bad for you.

Quote:
Attempting to demonise people who are overweight and use shock tactics are unlikely to work IMO.
Possibly not. Conversely, if pro-fat messages may be unsuccessful as well. But that's a best-case scenario. If they are successful, then they'll just make the health problems worse.

Quote:
OTOH in the UK there have been nudge-based information campaigns about weight and lifestyle which have been running for years but we're getting heavier.
Not enough good information out there about how to actually get fit and healthy.
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:03 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Modified View Post
We can't look at medical costs in isolation. What are the savings in US social security and similar programs in other countries due to obesity? Based on the numbers I'm seeing, there is a net savings in the US even using worst case estimates for increased lifetime medical costs. And, the greater the level of obesity, the greater the savings. There may be other losses to the US economy due to lower productivity, etc.
If there's a net savings because people are dying younger from obesity-related health problems, well, **** the savings. The human cost is horrific, and not worth the money.
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:11 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
....How about we start shock ads in the way we did in the second half of the 20th century to inhibit smoking?
Have you evidence that such tactics work?

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Maybe if kids watched horrendously fat people's bodies being lifted into a grave by crane because it's too heavy for people to lift might encourage one or two of them to tell mummy to stop feeding them crap.
Have you evidence that such tactics work?

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
At the very least, let's stop pretending fat is ok, normal or anything else. Classify it as a mental illness if you like, but we have to stop saying it's ok to be the size of a bus.
So its black or white? What do you call people who are 20 lbs overweight? Are they the 'size of a bus'.
How do you think such language helps the situation.
Do you think fat shaming works?

Shouldn't we focus on things that are proven to work?

I doubt contempt is the answer.

Perhaps heavily taxing junk food might be more constructive? Perhaps there are studies on that?
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:12 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Most fat people know there are fat, are embarrassed or even horrified by it, and want nothing more than to lose that extra weight. But for a variety of emotional and physiological reasons they cannot.
There are physiological reasons which make it hard. There are emotional reasons which make it hard. But the primary obstacle is that most people don't even know what to do to lose a lot of weight. And no amount of willpower can compensate for a lack of knowledge.

The whole "biggest loser" approach of just more exercise and less eating doesn't work. It's not behaviorally sustainable. But there are approaches which ARE sustainable, but which have very little popular exposure.

The number one thing to do, if you want to lose a bunch of weight and keep it off, is to first get strong. Build muscle. This raises resting metabolic rate, which of course helps a lot, but it's more than just that. When you get strong, exercise becomes tolerable, where it's miserable when you're weak and fat. You have obtainable, quantifiable objectives other than just losing weight which you can make progress on, which will directly and quickly impact your life in a positive way, and which require you to not starve yourself in the process. And the metabolic processes of building and repairing muscles also burn a **** ton of calories.
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:13 AM   #20
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I guess fat shaming isn't so bad after all
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:23 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by The Sparrow View Post
Have you evidence that such tactics work?
Good question. I'd love to know the answer.

Quote:
Shouldn't we focus on things that are proven to work?
Yes, of course.

Do we know what works? Not in terms of how an individual loses fat and keeps it off (that is known, though not by most people), but in terms of how we educate the public. Do we have anything that's been demonstrated successful?
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:35 AM   #22
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Not sure. I am somewhat overweight. I eat too many rich foods. I am hoping when I retire in 9 weeks, and I start preparing and cooking so much more of my own food, that a bit of weight loss will occur. I eat poorly because of time and convenience.

Someone calling me a fat pig or showing scary movies of someone 'the size of a bus' being lowered into a grave is not going to make me suddenly realize what a terrible person I am and how much better person I would become if I only lost weight. Sorry, it just wont.

We have warning pictures on packages of cigarettes showing cancer and such. Smokers I know don't even register them. What they DO register is that a pack of smokes now cost $15 canadian. Why not tax the crap out of big macs and use that money to support the health care system?
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:35 AM   #23
Hubert Cumberdale
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
There are physiological reasons which make it hard. There are emotional reasons which make it hard. But the primary obstacle is that most people don't even know what to do to lose a lot of weight. And no amount of willpower can compensate for a lack of knowledge.
I agree, but think the principle difficulty is that people firstly refuse to understand that weight gain/loss is a simple matter of calories in v. calories out, and also tend to have no idea how many calories different food items contain.
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:46 AM   #24
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A quick google suggests contempt is misguided

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ground/418110/

I'm not saying that being overwieght has no health implications.
It just kind of annoys me when people get all high and mighty judgmental and use such loaded language. Other than making yourself feel superior, what actual good is it doing?

Do you think I don't know I am overweight?
Do you think I don't know I would be healthier at a lower weight?
Do you think I don't know that I am taking in more calories than I burn?
Do you think I don't know that fried chicken has more fat than grilled chicken?
Do you think I don't know about eating fibre and cutting down on sugar?
Do you think I don't know that you think I am unattractive?

How do you think repeating these things with a sneer will help?
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:49 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by The Sparrow View Post
A quick google suggests contempt is misguided

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ground/418110/

I'm not saying that being overwieght has no health implications.
It just kind of annoys me when people get all high and mighty judgmental and use such loaded language. Other than making yourself feel superior, what actual good is it doing?

Do you think I don't know I am overweight?
Do you think I don't know I would be healthier at a lower weight?
Do you think I don't know that I am taking in more calories than I burn?
Do you think I don't know that fried chicken has more fat than grilled chicken?
Do you think I don't know about eating fibre and cutting down on sugar?
Do you think I don't know that you think I am unattractive?

How do you think repeating these things with a sneer will help?

It's not only fat, but KFC is pumped full of hormones.

So don't be surprised if you start sprouting man boobs (moobs).
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:50 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale View Post
It is due to gluttony.

There might be an underlying cause (emotional problems, eating disorders and so on), but obesity is caused by consuming a significant excess of calories over an extended period of time.

This is whats commonly understood to be gluttony.

And we need to stop making excuses for it.
I'm about 60 lbs over weight, and I agree 100% with the above. I'm fat because I like food, and it's just too damned easy for me to get it. I had no trouble at all quitting smoking (about 4 years, now), but at least with smoking you can just stop doing it. Not so easy with eating, but at least I know that in my case, it's only because I'm not motivated enough.
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:53 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale View Post
I agree, but think the principle difficulty is that people firstly refuse to understand that weight gain/loss is a simple matter of calories in v. calories out, and also tend to have no idea how many calories different food items contain.
No, it's actually not that simple. While the equation is undoubtedly true (ie, you lose weight if you expend more calories than you consume, and gain weight if you expend less calories than you consume), in practice it's impossible for most people to actually measure either side with any accuracy. And both sides respond to each other in rather complex ways (ie, physical activity affects appetite and consumption, and consumption affects physical activity levels), so that tuning them isn't actually trivial in practice.
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:54 AM   #28
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We all make choices that aren't good for our self or the planet. Mostly out of convenience. Often out of stress. Work sucks for me right now. Eating right foods is a pleasure. I'm hoping retirement brings a lowering of stress and a lowering of temptation to indulge in pleasure eating.

Maybe not. Maybe I need a health scare.

I can say though, for me, contempt isn't going to make me suddenly realize the error of my ways and cause me to alter my behavior in order to gain your approval.
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Old 10th October 2017, 11:56 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by The Sparrow View Post
Someone calling me a fat pig or showing scary movies of someone 'the size of a bus' being lowered into a grave is not going to make me suddenly realize what a terrible person I am and how much better person I would become if I only lost weight. Sorry, it just wont.
Don't try to lose weight. Try to get strong. It will make you a better person. And as a bonus, you get to eat MORE while you're doing it.
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Old 10th October 2017, 12:20 PM   #30
Vixen
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Don't try to lose weight. Try to get strong. It will make you a better person. And as a bonus, you get to eat MORE while you're doing it.
The simple fact is, people eat all day long and stack up their plates.

Stick to regular eating times and eat moderate portions.

Food is not a hobby. Eat to live, not live to eat.
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Old 10th October 2017, 12:26 PM   #31
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Food is not a hobby. Eat to live, not live to eat.
I don't think that's a requirement for not getting fat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSoHkadTAxc&t=0m42s
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Old 10th October 2017, 12:38 PM   #32
The Sparrow
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The simple fact is, people eat all day long and stack up their plates.
LOL, broad brush much?

I do not 'eat all day long'. And my breakfast and lunch plates are pretty small.
Big dinners is my sin.
Everyone is different. That's a lot harder to deal with than big broad brush statements.
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Old 10th October 2017, 12:51 PM   #33
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
There are physiological reasons which make it hard. There are emotional reasons which make it hard. But the primary obstacle is that most people don't even know what to do to lose a lot of weight. And no amount of willpower can compensate for a lack of knowledge.

The whole "biggest loser" approach of just more exercise and less eating doesn't work. It's not behaviorally sustainable. But there are approaches which ARE sustainable, but which have very little popular exposure..
You say this, and then follow it up with telling people to get strong...presumably by exercising.

I've often thought that there are many similarities between getting one's weight and getting one's finances under control:

- They both require discipline and do no show immediate results
- We are bombarded by lots of temptations to spend money, and a lot of seductive "food porn"
- We are also bombarded by miracle diets and get rich schemes
- Everyone knows the real solutions: eat less, exercise more, spend less, save more
- There is an addictive component. People often get addicted to both spending money and feeding themselves.
- Both spending and eating can provide a degree of escapism.

So, overall I think I disagree with your claim, and think that deep down, almost everyone does know how to lose weight, just as everyone knows how to retire in style (or at least optimize their chances of doing so). They are just unable to maintain the discipline to execute successfully.
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Old 10th October 2017, 01:26 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Do we know what works? Not in terms of how an individual loses fat and keeps it off (that is known, though not by most people), but in terms of how we educate the public. Do we have anything that's been demonstrated successful?
My somewhat wild guess is that the savage cranking-up of cigarette prices in the UK had more effect than the health warnings on the packets. So, perhaps, health warnings about obesity might not have as much effect as taxing conspicuously fattening foods?

The catch, then, is to identify them reasonably well. If a lard-laden pork pie or ready meal in the supermarket is free of the 'fat tax' applied to takeaway pizzas and burgers then it's hardly a level playing field. We had pork shoulder chops the other night, slow food but easy work and bristling with fat.

With tobacco you can hammer the damaging ingredient with nearly 100% accuracy, but with food it's very complex. Start with a sugar tax? That's not hard to identify, but the food lobby is very powerful. What next? It's a minefield.

(Re-reading those last two paragraphs tells me that health education regarding obesity is more important than the first paragraph might suggest Strange how writing things down helps to clarify one's own thoughts)
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Old 10th October 2017, 01:44 PM   #35
Vixen
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Originally Posted by The Sparrow View Post
LOL, broad brush much?

I do not 'eat all day long'. And my breakfast and lunch plates are pretty small.
Big dinners is my sin.
Everyone is different. That's a lot harder to deal with than big broad brush statements.
Maybe you should try a big breakfast instead? Studies show that the old adage, 'Breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince and supper like a pauper,' works, in that people who have a big breakfast are less likely to overeat during the day.

Not that I adhere to this.

Breakfast is always fresh filtered coffee.

I usually have a bowl of fresh strawberries and blueberries with a chopped banana (and perhaps a satsuma and some grapes). I'll then have a bowl of probiotic yoghurt (I love the Collective brand) often cultured myself.

I'll have a sandwich at work. Usually Yorkshire Champion seeded bloomer, or Hovis Wholemeal/Spelt (it must be tasty) with a nice cheese, cheddar or Leerdammer, or occasionally, a bagel with cream cheese and smoked salmon with black pepper and lemon.

A cup of tea in the afternoon, with perhaps a couple of slices of buttered Ryvita dark rye crispbread, or Finn Crisp.

A main meal in the evening, often quorn or bean based as my close family is vegetarian. However, if cooking for myself, it'll be new potatoes and a nice piece of sea bass.

And another bowl of blueberries, strawberries, black grapes and banana.

More yoghurt.
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Old 10th October 2017, 01:52 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
If there's a net savings because people are dying younger from obesity-related health problems, well, **** the savings. The human cost is horrific, and not worth the money.
I agree, but the article cited in the OP is talking about medical costs. Doing so without discussing the overall costs or savings to society is somewhat disingenuous, as they are implying that it will "cost society" that amount.
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Old 10th October 2017, 01:53 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale View Post
It is due to gluttony.

There might be an underlying cause (emotional problems, eating disorders and so on), but obesity is caused by consuming a significant excess of calories over an extended period of time.

This is whats commonly understood to be gluttony.

And we need to stop making excuses for it.
Are we going with definition #1 in Merriam Webster, excess in eating or drinking, or definition #2 (which I think is the one most people really mean when using the word gluttony) greedy or excessive indulgence? Because certainly gaining weight is caused by taking in and storing more calories than one "burns." But even this is not as simple as many people think. As I posted, metabolisms is very complex. Just one example, on the Atkin's diet (or its more recent derivatives) people take in far more calories than they burn, but by tricking their metabolic regulation (by eating most of those calories as fat or protein) these people still lose weight because they do not store those extra calories. They can be gluttons but still lose weight. Conversely a person can gain weight even when eating fewer calories than a skinny person depending on their genetics, the nature of those calories, the time of day they eat, and their physical efforts, etc. I've studied in lab genetically altered mice that due to a mutation in a single gene become obese even though they eat fewer calories than otherwise absolutely identical mice that stay thin.

Ah, but most people use gluttony to mean the second, even more misleading definition- gluttony as a sin and representing moral failings- greed and self-indulgence. Well sorry, but being fat is a disease and not a sin. For some it is a disease at the physiological level, as explained in my first paragraph. For others it is an emotional or mental disease as you note. But even in these cases these diseases are as real as any "physical" disease. Mental and emotional diseases arise from real physical origins relating to electrochemical disfunction in the brain. Just as type I diabetes originates from chemical mis-balances originating in the beta islet cells in the pancreas. Pancreas vs brain doesn't make one a disease and the other an excuse. Having someone close to you experience a mental or emotional disease (severe depression, OCD, paranoia, etc.) forces one to quickly realize that these mental disorders are as real as diabetes- except harder to treat. They are not just a mental attitude that can be fixed by simply explaining to the sufferer how to think right any more than curing type I diabetes by shouting at a person to make more insulin. Sometimes talking to a person can help fix the chemistry, sometimes changing their behavior will change their way of thinking about something, sometimes a drug can help fix it, but in all cases the brain chemistry itself ultimately has to change. Being fat is typically a very real disease that can cause very real suffering; most fat people do not want to be fat and cannot find a way of losing weight that is within their power (physiological, emotional, or mental) to do so and they are already ashamed. Blaming/shaming them further as if it is just a moral failing will not help them to lose weight.

Highlight- Should we stop making excuses for type I diabetics?

So have some sympathy for fat people- as I learned more about obesity I became much more sympathetic toward the people who suffer from it. And lest anyone think otherwise- I am relatively skinny so my viewpoint does not come from any attempt to make excuses for myself- I don't have anything to excuse (because I am lucky, not because I am morally superior).
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Old 10th October 2017, 02:06 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
There are physiological reasons which make it hard. There are emotional reasons which make it hard. But the primary obstacle is that most people don't even know what to do to lose a lot of weight. And no amount of willpower can compensate for a lack of knowledge.

The whole "biggest loser" approach of just more exercise and less eating doesn't work. It's not behaviorally sustainable. But there are approaches which ARE sustainable, but which have very little popular exposure.

The number one thing to do, if you want to lose a bunch of weight and keep it off, is to first get strong. Build muscle. This raises resting metabolic rate, which of course helps a lot, but it's more than just that. When you get strong, exercise becomes tolerable, where it's miserable when you're weak and fat. You have obtainable, quantifiable objectives other than just losing weight which you can make progress on, which will directly and quickly impact your life in a positive way, and which require you to not starve yourself in the process. And the metabolic processes of building and repairing muscles also burn a **** ton of calories.
I absolutely agree- there are several productive ways that can help obese people lose weight, depending on the cause of the weight gain and its maintenance. And the ones you named are excellent ones. But of course not all approaches work for all people (e.g. a 75 year old woman with osteoporosis is going to have problems attempting to exercise in ways that will build much muscle mass). But I absolutely agree- one significant contributor to the inability to lose weight can be lack of knowledge of what to do to help oneself. Just as lack of knowledge of what to eat can make type I diabetes much more serious. My major points just that obesity is not simply caused by greedy indulgence. It is a "real" disorder and not just a biblical sin.

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Old 10th October 2017, 02:16 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
You say this, and then follow it up with telling people to get strong...presumably by exercising.
No. What I'm advocating is training, a deliberate and methodical process of changing one's physical capabilities over time through the stress-recovery-adaptation cycle. Merely exercising (ie, burning some calories through movement) doesn't suffice. Understanding the difference between exercising and training is very important, but most advice about exercise and weight doesn't even mention it, and even a lot of doctors don't really understand its application.
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Old 10th October 2017, 02:18 PM   #40
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I certainly believe that society as a whole should help people keep from getting fat for both moral and economic reasons. I think people tend to become obese in our society because their (our) bodies are evolutionarily programmed to a feast and famine kind of diet (kill a wooly mammoth and feast for 2 weeks, then starve until the next kill weeks later). Our bodies and minds don't really know what to do when exposed to high caloric food all the time and I think there are better ways to overcome this discrepancy than what we do now. Something as simple as providing smaller serving sizes has been shown to help people integrate their programming with the current caloric reality. Gee- just look at the size of soft drinks offered at fast-food restaurants now vs a few decades ago. Is a 64 ounce "slurpee" or the giant bacon cheese double beef patty triple bun burger really what needs to be the dish most prominently advertised by the average fast-food store? There are many other modest proposals that can help.

So I agree with efforts to target obesity- just not efforts to target the obese.

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