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Tags Australia elections , Australia politics , Julie Bishop , Malcolm Turnbull , Peter Dutton , Scott Morrison

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Old 1st March 2020, 04:43 AM   #2241
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
How does that follow? People are judged all the time, and in the cases we are talking about here, the courts do so on our behalf, so it is perfectly reasonable for a member of the public to judge someone as a criminal.

There has been some weird stuff going on in the last page or so. Australia deports convicted non-citizens, as do most other countries. Should this policy be discarded? I don’t think anyone can convincingly argue this. Can it be changed to say “we will do this unless the criminal has spent x time here”? I can’t see how would work in practice. Does the “good bloke” principal apply? This would be impossible to administer. Should the receiving country decide? The Australian public would never accept this.

As I said earlier, this issue is bi-partisan and won’t change. There is simply not enough support for a change.
Yes, most other countries do that including NZ. We have already highlighted the point the NZ PM was making. I thought that bit was clear but here we are. It’s all I have been arguing.

Want to know how not deporting non citizens who have grown up here and have practically no ties to their birth country works? Look to NZ and we could Google others. Our have seen it claimed ours are some of the harshest laws in the world on this situation.

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Old 1st March 2020, 01:50 PM   #2242
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Can someone explain why Kiwis who have made Australia their home for many years don’t become citizens? It would seem be the wise thing to do.
It's a lot harder to become a citizen than have permanent residency and a lot of Kiwi workers in Oz wouldn't be able to pass citizenship requirements even if they wanted to.
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Old 1st March 2020, 01:51 PM   #2243
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Yes, most other countries do that including NZ. We have already highlighted the point the NZ PM was making. I thought that bit was clear but here we are. It’s all I have been arguing.

Want to know how not deporting non citizens who have grown up here and have practically no ties to their birth country works? Look to NZ and we could Google others. Our have seen it claimed ours are some of the harshest laws in the world on this situation.
No worries, mate - we're going to have the boot entirely on the other foot when the climate really heats up and we make Aussies wait in line with all the other refugees.
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Old 1st March 2020, 02:27 PM   #2244
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I will play the Kiwi card then because that’s the kind of hypocrite I am. A Kiwi dole bludger at heart.
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Old 2nd March 2020, 02:28 PM   #2245
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Of course there's nothing remotely dodgy about this.

Scott Morrison’s one-man cabinet committee an ‘abuse of process’, Labor says

Quote:
PM has dismissed opposition’s concerns but Penny Wong says it could be used to ‘cover up decision-making’


Labor has labelled a cabinet committee with just one permanent member – Scott Morrison – an “abuse of process” that enables Morrison to call meetings protected by cabinet confidentiality, even if no other cabinet members are present.

The cabinet office policy committee was the focus of questioning in both Senate estimates and question time, where Morrison defended the committee responsible for his policy “deep dives” and dismissed Labor concerns as “trivial Canberra politics”.

On Monday, Mathias Cormann and officials from the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet confirmed that Morrison was the only “permanent” member of the committee.

Stephanie Foster, the PMC deputy secretary of governance, told the finance and public administration estimates hearing that Morrison convenes meetings attended by others. Cormann said this included ministers, backbenchers and public servants, but took on notice if it included non-government stakeholders.

Foster and Cormann suggested the committee informs the government’s policy direction including commissioning further work, but decisions are ultimately taken by the expenditure review committee or cabinet itself.

Wong suggested that meetings of the cabinet committee would be protected by cabinet confidentiality, even if no other cabinet members are present and non-parliamentarians are, labelling this an “abuse of cabinet in confidence”.
Nope, nothing to see here. Move along.
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Old 2nd March 2020, 03:24 PM   #2246
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Propriety is for suckers.
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Old 2nd March 2020, 08:34 PM   #2247
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Quote:
The Reserve Bank of Australia has cut official rates by 0.25% to a new record low of 0.5%.


Futures market traders had been banking on a cut, with ASX data showing trading on the exchange implied a 100% chance of a reduction to 0.5%.

The probability of a cut had been tracking at between 10% and 20% last week but suddenly surged to 100% on Monday.

Further out, traders expect the official cash rate to drop to 0.25% by Jul
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...-politics-live

I don't know what any of that means, but it doesn't sound great.
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Old 2nd March 2020, 08:52 PM   #2248
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...-politics-live

I don't know what any of that means, but it doesn't sound great.
It means they've used half the available weapons to fight the economic downturn of covid-19 when you've only got 30 cases.
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Old 2nd March 2020, 09:04 PM   #2249
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
It means they've used half the available weapons to fight the economic downturn of covid-19 when you've only got 30 cases.
The Shadow Treasurer is certainly making hay with it on the floor right now.
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Old 4th March 2020, 02:42 AM   #2250
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Got a shed-load of toilet paper, mates?

**** there are some stupid people.
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Old 4th March 2020, 12:45 PM   #2251
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When people panic buy they buy heaps of stuff. Loo paper is only one such item. So why should that be running out and not everything else? Or does it make good press?
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Old 4th March 2020, 12:52 PM   #2252
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Got a shed-load of toilet paper, mates?

**** there are some stupid people.
One person at least had the honesty to say be bought a pack of 20 rolls for $4 and plans to sell them for $4 a roll.
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Old 4th March 2020, 01:30 PM   #2253
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
When people panic buy they buy heaps of stuff. Loo paper is only one such item. So why should that be running out and not everything else? Or does it make good press?
It's been happening here, too, and I suspect a lot of the reason it's most noticeable is because it takes up so much space.

You can fit a lot of packs of rice in the space of one pack of a dozen dunny rolls.

I was watching on the weekend as people were buying trolley-loads of it. It's not even imported to any great degree, so it's least likely to have supply chain trouble.

Verdict: people are idiots.
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Old 4th March 2020, 02:12 PM   #2254
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
When people panic buy they buy heaps of stuff. Loo paper is only one such item. So why should that be running out and not everything else? Or does it make good press?
It makes press because it is a ridiculous phenomenon that I can see in my local duopoly supermarket. You can see where some cans and pastas have been hit harder than normal but the toilet paper shelves are carnage.
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Old 4th March 2020, 04:42 PM   #2255
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
New Zealand. There are not too many Australians who go to New Zealand to work and stay there. Australia has a slightly higher living standard.
What?
So NZ is not the paradise on Earth a few Kiwi posters here proclaim it to be?
How shocking!
Of course the whole deporting of criminals in Australia, at least to this Yank, is ironic given how Australia got started....
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Old 4th March 2020, 11:58 PM   #2256
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Got a shed-load of toilet paper, mates?

**** there are some stupid people.
A facebook theory for the surge in demand: https://www.facebook.com/bodybeautif...type=1&theater
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Old 13th March 2020, 01:47 AM   #2257
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Peter Dutton has ncov-19

It has been reported that Peter Dutton has tested positive for ncov-19.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-...4wObns70p2KpLY

Although I despise him as a politician, I would not wish any illness like this on him.
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Old 13th March 2020, 12:46 PM   #2258
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It has been reported that Peter Dutton has tested positive for ncov-19.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-...4wObns70p2KpLY

Although I despise him as a politician, I would not wish any illness like this on him.
How many politicians has he given it to?
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Old 13th March 2020, 05:24 PM   #2259
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It has been reported that Peter Dutton has tested positive for ncov-19.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-...4wObns70p2KpLY

Although I despise him as a politician, I would not wish any illness like this on him.

The illness is not such a big deal and the bulk of us are going to be exposed to it in the long run. The folk that are going to experience sever symptoms are only in the order of 0.5% and that would be primarily the elderly.

As I understand it the best strategy is to try and slow down the rate of spread of the disease. Flattening out the curve as they say, so hospitals will not be overwhelmed with a large number of cases in a short time.

I image the use of prayer as an effective weapon will be high on Soot Morrisons list. Apart from this approach he doesn't seem to be much in control. At least this crisis has shifted the focus from his disastrous handling of the bush fire crisis.
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Old 25th March 2020, 02:17 PM   #2260
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Once again the Morrison government demonstrates how inept it is. Mygov website crashing and huge queues outside Centrelink offices, with the minister in control lamenting he could not foresee this increased demand. Vague ambiguous statements coming from Soot with no clear target or strategy outlined. Situation normal unfortunately.

Went to the local large shopping centre just yesterday, and was surprised to find I had to press the button, to get my parking ticket as normal. Common sense would have prevailed you would think, and the boom gate left open. Common sense would suggest the centre management would have facilitated this, and common sense would suggest a government directive, limiting unnecessary button pushing by possibly infected fingers, would have been issued.

It would seem some other countries are handling the coronavirus pandemic better than we in Australia. Singapore and South Korea are flattening the curve more effectively than we are. Maybe they have smarted leadership?
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Old 25th March 2020, 03:23 PM   #2261
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Singapore and South Korea are flattening the curve more effectively than we are. Maybe they have smarted leadership?
Haha! I just said exactly that in the politics/Covid thread - that Aussie is one of the countries with inept leadership.

But don't worry, we are as well.
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Old 25th March 2020, 07:11 PM   #2262
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Once again the Morrison government demonstrates how inept it is. Mygov website crashing and huge queues outside Centrelink offices, with the minister in control lamenting he could not foresee this increased demand.
To be fair, the increase in demand has been way beyond all previous forecasts. There's always a certain amount of scalability provided in any system, but when the amount of requests is overwhelming, things break.

We've been experiencing this at work. Massive numbers of staff are now working from home - fifteen times the number that were before. I don't know the exact figure, by the way, so don't take that number as gospel. So our remote access infrastructure is groaning under the increased load, and we're experiencing connection problems and brownouts.

But when setting up a system like this, you just don't build that level of scaling into the architecture. Partly because that kind of sudden increase in load almost never happens, but mostly because it's expensive.
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Old 25th March 2020, 07:33 PM   #2263
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With all due respect arth, we are two weeks behind places like Italy and should have taken note. Politicians have been complacently siting with their thumbs up their bums for weeks now.
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Old 25th March 2020, 07:57 PM   #2264
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
With all due respect arth, we are two weeks behind places like Italy and should have taken note. Politicians have been complacently siting with their thumbs up their bums for weeks now.
Right, but that wasn't the part of your post I was addressing. The most competent leader could not have anticipated or planned and implemented the necessary infrastructure for such a massive increase in load, because that is not the kind of thing that it makes practical or economic sense to plan for.

When building a treehouse, you build it big enough for your children and a few friends. You don't build a massive one just in case they invite the entire school over.
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Old 25th March 2020, 08:57 PM   #2265
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Old 25th March 2020, 10:04 PM   #2266
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Once again the Morrison government demonstrates how inept it is. Mygov website crashing and huge queues outside Centrelink offices, with the minister in control lamenting he could not foresee this increased demand. Vague ambiguous statements coming from Soot with no clear target or strategy outlined. Situation normal unfortunately.
A responsive Centrelink has never been on the Libs' agenda. In their opinion, only bludgers need Centrelink.
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Old 25th March 2020, 10:19 PM   #2267
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
A responsive Centrelink has never been on the Libs' agenda. In their opinion, only bludgers need Centrelink.
Because poverty is a moral failing, not a social one.
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Old 25th March 2020, 10:21 PM   #2268
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Because poverty is a moral failing, not a social one.
Prosperity gospel. If you're more rich, you're more moral.
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Old 25th March 2020, 10:46 PM   #2269
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Prosperity gospel. If you're more rich, you're more moral.
So if Scumo wasn't religious he would care more about the poor?
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Old 25th March 2020, 10:47 PM   #2270
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
So if Scumo wasn't religious he would care more about the poor?
Yep. Because he would be one of them.
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Old 25th March 2020, 10:48 PM   #2271
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Yep. Because he would be one of them.
What a weird thing to say.
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Old 26th March 2020, 12:36 AM   #2272
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Right, but that wasn't the part of your post I was addressing. The most competent leader could not have anticipated or planned and implemented the necessary infrastructure for such a massive increase in load, because that is not the kind of thing that it makes practical or economic sense to plan for.

When building a treehouse, you build it big enough for your children and a few friends. You don't build a massive one just in case they invite the entire school over.

But if you have two weeks notice that your tree house may need to be bigger, and you have the means to make it so, siting with your thumb up your bum is not acceptable.
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Old 26th March 2020, 03:34 AM   #2273
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
What a weird thing to say.
Nope. Sooty apparently believes that only the rich can be truly religious. And conversely, that only the poor are not religious. From this silly train of logic he can easily conclude that if he was not religious then ergo he must be poor.

You may care to note this is Sooty's and Hillsong's logic, not your normal man-in-the-street.
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Old 26th March 2020, 04:21 AM   #2274
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Nope. Sooty apparently believes that only the rich can be truly religious. And conversely, that only the poor are not religious. From this silly train of logic he can easily conclude that if he was not religious then ergo he must be poor.

You may care to note this is Sooty's and Hillsong's logic, not your normal man-in-the-street.
Can you provide any evidence that the PM has this belief?
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Old 26th March 2020, 05:44 AM   #2275
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Nope. Sooty apparently believes that only the rich can be truly religious. And conversely, that only the poor are not religious. From this silly train of logic he can easily conclude that if he was not religious then ergo he must be poor.

You may care to note this is Sooty's and Hillsong's logic, not your normal man-in-the-street.
It sounds more like yours. You effectively said that if Scumo was not religious he would still have the same religious belief (that the non-religious must be poor).
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Old 26th March 2020, 07:17 PM   #2276
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Prosperity gospel. If you're more rich, you're more moral.
Not quite. Prosperity gospel says that if you're more moral, you're more rich. Subtle difference.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
So if Scumo wasn't religious he would care more about the poor?
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Yep. Because he would be one of them.
Again, not quite. If Morrison were a different kind of religious - one that doesn't believe in Prosperity Gospel, then he would probably care more about the poor. If he were Catholic, for example. That doesn't necessarily mean that he would be poor. There are, obviously, plenty of rich Catholics. But charity towards the poor is built in to the Catholic belief system (faith and good works).

But Prosperity Gospel teaches that anyone can become rich just by being more faithful. So if you're not rich, you're just not being faithful enough.

One more disclaimer, because rjh01 is exactly right. We have no evidence that Scott Morrison actually does believe in Prosperity Gospel. He is a member of a church that is frequently linked to Prosperity Gospel, but that is circumstantial evidence at best.
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Old 26th March 2020, 08:42 PM   #2277
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Nice to see Aussie taking the threat of Covid-19 on board so completely.

I see there are at least seven horse racing meetings and more greyhound meetings still going on today.
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Old 26th March 2020, 09:16 PM   #2278
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Nice to see Aussie taking the threat of Covid-19 on board so completely.

I see there are at least seven horse racing meetings and more greyhound meetings still going on today.

Do you expect horses to be left unattended and die during the lockdown?
Quote:
All three industries have been racing without trackside crowds, reduced the number of people on course to “essential” personnel, and put social distancing rules in place intended to stop person-to-person contact.

Members of the horse racing industry have raised animal welfare concerns if meets are suspended, saying that horses need to be fed and exercised, even if the meets are not running.

The RSPCA has called on the federal government to declare work that involves caring for animals, including in the racing industries, as essential, to exclude it from any potential lockdowns. It has not called for racing to be allowed to continue.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...onavirus-scare
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Old 26th March 2020, 10:42 PM   #2279
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Do you expect horses to be left unattended and die during the lockdown?
Like all farmers, horse trainers can look after their animals during the shutdown.

The reasons given for continuing in the Guardian article are complete nonsense. You also can't have a racing event where people remain 2m away from each other. Maybe you should have a butchers at the races on TV and see what I mean.

NZ, most of USA and other countries have suspended racing and nobody mentioned horse welfare, because it's bollocks.
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Old 27th March 2020, 12:20 AM   #2280
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
The reasons given for continuing in the Guardian article are complete nonsense.
This is just a "misery loves company" post.

There are no trackside crowds at the races so what are you worried about? Do you think that the jockeys will get too close to each other during a race?
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