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Tags Arlene Gaal , bigfoot , cryptozoology , flatwoods monster , Ken Chaplin , lake worth monster , loch ness monster , panthers , Trunko

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Old 12th June 2017, 10:52 AM   #3201
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Just a little chart to help you ID all of the different Hairyman Archetypes.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640...922/17ujiQ.jpg
LOLOL.....that IS pretty funny
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Old 12th June 2017, 10:56 AM   #3202
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Logfoot was pretty funny.
Was Logfoot the one where he was lying next to the log, thinking how brilliant his idea was?
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Old 12th June 2017, 11:13 AM   #3203
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Was Logfoot the one where he was lying next to the log, thinking how brilliant his idea was?
Indeed.
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Old 12th July 2017, 01:01 PM   #3204
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This video of an alleged (potential) Thylacine from North Queensland is interesting.

At first glance, I thought it was most likely a quoll with some forced perspective making it appear larger. As I've studied it more, however, the legs seem too long. It doesn't appear to be a dog or dingo with a hind leg injury as close inspection reveals both hind legs to be in use. It's certainly got the bull-headed, triangular-headed shape of a dasyurid. Anyway, have at it, y'all.
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Old 12th July 2017, 01:20 PM   #3205
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I think it's a cow running through the field.
Thick like a bull, far away from the camera.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erZSJHy2Lzk


Or wild hog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1emPEApVlo
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Old 12th July 2017, 01:30 PM   #3206
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Nothing useful for scale. Looks to me like maybe a fox or dog with deformed hips. Dunno.
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Old 12th July 2017, 06:31 PM   #3207
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It looks like a red fox. I don't see anything there that says not a fox. The gait may be a bit odd but that seems exaggerated when it's slowed way down.
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Old 12th July 2017, 06:42 PM   #3208
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Nothing useful for scale.
Well it's definitely shorter than the fenceposts behind it.

Here's side-by-side of Thylacine and Dingo. Given that we really just have a silhouette to work with in the new footage, I'll address what about the proportion has me interested.

1) Tail. The subject has a long tail, and long relative to its body length. Note how on a dingo the tail is rather bushy and extends down to about the ankle joint. It does not reach the ground. It is shorter than the length of the back from shoulders to hips.

In contrast, the thylacine's tail is thinner and much longer. When the animal is at rest, the tip reaches all the way to the ground. In most postures, it's also sticking out well behind the hips, rather than straight down as in dingo and most domestic dog breeds. The tail on the subject is at least as long as its back from shoulder to hips. It doesn't look as long as the tail on the Thylacine in the photo, but its longer and thinner than the dingo's tail and it's got that "thicker-at-the-base" look like a kangaroo's.

2) Hind leg morphology. Check out the right hind leg of the tylacine in the photo. It's foot is entirely flat on the ground - those suckers were quasi-plantigrade! I never noticed that, but it makes sense: Thylacines were secondarily evolved to run from ancestors that weren't really built for it. In contrast the dingo is fully digitigrade, just like the wolves/wild dogs from which it descended. It's built for running and so were its ancestors.

In terms of hindleg proportion, the heel on a dingo is higher off the ground. Thylacines, in comparison, had a shorter foot. The heel is much closer to the ground.

Unfortunately, we can't really see what's going on with the hindlegs and feet of the subject. The fact that we can't see its feet above the grass makes me wonder if they're small. Certainly the subject moves with an atypical gait for a canid, and I just can't tell if it looks more like a canid with an injury or, you know, something else . . .

Anyway, that's my tuppence on why I'm interested in this one.
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Old 12th July 2017, 06:47 PM   #3209
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It looks like a red fox. I don't see anything there that says not a fox. The gait may be a bit odd but that seems exaggerated when it's slowed way down.
Tail length proportion is good for a fox. Of course it'd be suffering some kind of fur loss from that tail to look so skinny.

Gait and leg length don't seem right to me, though. Foxes tend to move with "dainty" footsteps at a trot and to just haul-ass gallop when they need to get somewhere fast. Even with an injured hind leg the subjects legs look too short. Dunno.
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Old 12th July 2017, 07:29 PM   #3210
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Sarcoptic mange is widespread in Australia and could be why the tail isn't furry. There have been other modern "thylacine" videos which show mangy foxes without the normal furry profile.

I think it moves like a fox when viewed in real time.
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Old 12th July 2017, 08:16 PM   #3211
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
You would have hoped that an half-informed "science reporter" would know the difference between the Yorke Peninsula in South Australia (where the video was shot) and the Cape York Peninsula in northern Queensland (where the article seems to imply it was shot).
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At first glance, I thought it was most likely a quoll with some forced perspective making it appear larger. As I've studied it more, however, the legs seem too long. It doesn't appear to be a dog or dingo with a hind leg injury as close inspection reveals both hind legs to be in use. It's certainly got the bull-headed, triangular-headed shape of a dasyurid. Anyway, have at it, y'all.
A Fox or Dingo with mange would explain the tail and injured back leg(s) would explain the gait.

By the way - who has determined that this gait is typical of a Thylacine?
Thylacine Awareness Group of Australia founder Neil Waters?
According to him, he can also see on this washed out silhouette, "some discolouration on its back".
Seems like wishful thinking combined with vested interest to me.
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Old 13th July 2017, 10:33 AM   #3212
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Sarcoptic mange is widespread in Australia and could be why the tail isn't furry. There have been other modern "thylacine" videos which show mangy foxes without the normal furry profile.

I think it moves like a fox when viewed in real time.
Looks vaguely like a fox when paused, and that's probably what it is. Couple reasons it might not be:

1. Mange is a possibility on the tail, but the rest of the animal looks very thick for a fox unless it's a really furry one, which would be a little odd with the mange.

2. The gait is not typical of a fox IMO. An injured fox, maybe. Reminds me of my last dog who I had to put down early due to hip dysplasia.

No idea what a thylacine runs like though.
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Old 13th July 2017, 11:27 AM   #3213
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Here is a graphic of the thylacine gait. There are some old films of them in zoos.

If you Google for modern living thylacine videos you will get maybe a dozen. IMO, all of these show foxes with mange. They all basically look the same and this newest one is just more of the same.
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Old 13th July 2017, 02:17 PM   #3214
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I thought Thylacine® was what you took if your Viagra® goes sideways on you.
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Old 13th July 2017, 02:20 PM   #3215
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
If you Google for modern living thylacine videos you will get maybe a dozen. IMO, all of these show foxes with mange.
Agreed.

Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
They all basically look the same
Agreed.

Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
and this newest one is just more of the same.
Disagreed. Hence my interest.

Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Here is a graphic of the thylacine gait.
That actually looks to be a pretty good match to the subject's gait and a poor match to fox gaits.

It might be a canid - with or without mange and/or hind-end compromise. Parsimony would almost demand so and there is the cardinal rule of the JREF/ISF: "Parcher is always spot-on with these things." But I still find it interesting. I'd rather be convinced that it's a fox rather than merely capitulate that it's probably a fox.
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Old 13th July 2017, 02:58 PM   #3216
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Here's a mange fox identified as a thylacine. Starts at 0:30.

https://youtu.be/D_M-SskpGi4
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Old 13th July 2017, 04:53 PM   #3217
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Here is a graphic of the thylacine gait. There are some old films of them in zoos.
I searched for gait and I believe I found the same as you, William.
I believe though, that this is a walking gait, not a running gait.
I maintain that film of a running gait doesn't exist, so declaring that the video evidence shows "typical" Thylacine gait is unjustified.

There was a similar problem with the Ivory-billed Woodpecker audio "evidence".
Since they had none to compare current recordings too the "knock" recordings identified as "genuine" had no basis in scientific fact.
Quote:
If you Google for modern living thylacine videos you will get maybe a dozen. IMO, all of these show foxes with mange. They all basically look the same and this newest one is just more of the same.
I think I mentioned in passing on another thread that I was half thinking of taking up pursuit of Thylacine as I near my retirement - but even the briefest of research on the current evidence was enough to persuade me that it would be a futile endeavour.

I would have been better off returning to England to look for big cats in the countryside. At least there all I had to do was wait for a zoo/circus/menagerie escape and grab my camera.
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Old 13th July 2017, 04:55 PM   #3218
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Here's a mange fox identified as a thylacine. Starts at 0:30. https://youtu.be/D_M-SskpGi4
Agreed; no question. Possible injury (or even loss?) of distal right foot, too.
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Old 13th July 2017, 04:59 PM   #3219
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
I believe though, that this is a walking gait, not a running gait.
I maintain that film of a running gait doesn't exist, so declaring that the video evidence shows "typical" Thylacine gait is unjustified.
Agreed.

Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
There was a similar problem with the Ivory-billed Woodpecker audio "evidence". Since they had none to compare current recordings too the "knock" recordings identified as "genuine" had no basis in scientific fact.
Quibble - we actually have recordings of the double-knock from extant members of the genus Campephilus. They all do it.
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Old 13th July 2017, 05:19 PM   #3220
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Agreed.


Quibble - we actually have recordings of the double-knock from extant members of the genus Campephilus. They all do it.
This is exactly my point.

They had recordings of extant woodpeckers that were not IBWP, which they used to declare the existence of IBWP, because its knocking was similar.
But they had no recording of an IBWP knock and then carried on analysing their current recordings with the verve, vigour and inventiveness of the best Bigfoot "Researcher".

It was so much wishful thinking, and as with Thylacine hunters, the more the look the worse the "evidence" became.

And I do understand ID by exclusion.
I identified a Black Woodpecker in Germany for the first time from its call and knocking - based on the fact that I had never heard one before.
I knew what it wasn't - and that was all the other European WPs that I had heard. I later ID'd it by spotting and photographing.
But before then I was very confident what I was tracking down - even though I'd never seen/heard one before.
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Old 13th July 2017, 09:00 PM   #3221
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http://www.wherelightmeetsdark.com.a...ther-analysis/

Quote:
In my opinion the footage is likely to be genuine based on the credibility of the videographer, the animal carries a leg injury which is contributing to its seemingly unusual gait and the fox silhouette provides a better match than the thylacine silhouette. I concur with Kays' conclusion that the animal is probably a canid with hip dysplasia.
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Old 14th July 2017, 05:59 AM   #3222
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Good analysis. My only quibble there is that the silhouette analysis of fox v thylacine v film subject should be done with multiple stills. Otherwise, I'm on board.
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Old 14th July 2017, 06:59 AM   #3223
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There's no mention of mange. The author says fox but never talks about why a red fox would appear to have a slender tail profile.

It's not a minor mistake. The animal's appearance suggests a thylacine because it has mange.
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Old 14th July 2017, 07:05 AM   #3224
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
This is exactly my point.

They had recordings of extant woodpeckers that were not IBWP, which they used to declare the existence of IBWP, because its knocking was similar.
But they had no recording of an IBWP knock and then carried on analysing their current recordings with the verve, vigour and inventiveness of the best Bigfoot "Researcher".
I'm sorry but I'm missing your point. If I'm looking for sounds of Campephilus A but I only have recordings of the similar Campephilus B, it makes fine sense to me to search recordings for signatures of Campephilus B sounds as plausible evidence for Campephilus A in an area outside the distribution of Campephilus B but within the historical distribution of Campephilus A.

Analysis of the double-knocks was actually quite robust, with comparison to similar sounds only revealed through the physical parameters of Campephilus B double-knocks and any sounds that met strict criteria to match those parameters.

There are plenty of reasons to be critical of the Lab's conclusion that there was at least one extant Ivory-billed Woodpecker in Arkansas in 2004 and 2005. I don't have a problem with the double-knock analysis from automated recording units. They deployed these things all over the Southeastern US and the only place they obtained recordings that met their stringent criteria was in the Big Woods of eastern Arkansas.
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Old 14th July 2017, 08:00 AM   #3225
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
There's no mention of mange. The author says fox but never talks about why a red fox would appear to have a slender tail profile.

It's not a minor mistake. The animal's appearance suggests a thylacine because it has mange.
Well,
http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/agricu...nimals/red-fox
Quote:
Foxes are susceptible to the same diseases as dogs which are transmissible between these animals. Mange and distemper are thought to be important causes of mortality in wild fox populations, however little is known about their role in regulating Australian fox populations.
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Old 14th July 2017, 08:14 AM   #3226
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That jaw opening is what they need to ID a Thylacine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thylac...enjamin%22.jpg
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 14th July 2017, 08:19 AM   #3227
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The footage is amazingly steady for being taken with a cellphone. At first I thought I was looking at 35mm digital on a tripod.

Also, that appears to be a cultivated field. Looks like crop rows in the foreground.
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Old 14th July 2017, 08:33 AM   #3228
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At about 1:10 in the Thylacine video on wiki where the Thylacine puts a whole section of it's back legs on the ground for support...do dogs do that when in similar poses?

I don't think so?

When the Thylacine is just walking around, it stays up on it's feet like a dog.

When I see pics of a dog looking up a tree for a squirrel, the back legs are usually up on the feet, not like the Thylacine.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

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Old 14th July 2017, 09:23 AM   #3229
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One of the things I find interesting with this video discussion is how it clearly refutes the footer claim that video footage is useless and that skeptics would never give any footage the time of day.

Clearly this does not seem to be the case, at least what I can see with this alleged Thylacaine video.
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Old 14th July 2017, 09:29 AM   #3230
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
One of the things I find interesting with this video discussion is how it clearly refutes the footer claim that video footage is useless and that skeptics would never give any footage the time of day.
What could be more fun than analyzing some piece of ambiguous evidence for its possible paradigm-shifting implications?!
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Old 14th July 2017, 12:20 PM   #3231
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
I'm really amazed that the author and the other guy "Kay" he quoted both use mange fox outlines without any mention of them being that.

It's majorly significant that the animal must be afflicted with mange before its outline begins to resemble a thylacine. This is important for the analysis of this video but it's also important for the analysis of other purported thylacine videos. It also matters a lot for people who might see one of these and think they are seeing a thylacine. Yet there is no mention at all in the articles. It's so weird.

Here's a normal red fox outline.
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Old 14th July 2017, 02:53 PM   #3232
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I'm really amazed that the author and the other guy "Kay" he quoted both use mange fox outlines without any mention of them being that.

It's majorly significant that the animal must be afflicted with mange before its outline begins to resemble a thylacine. This is important for the analysis of this video but it's also important for the analysis of other purported thylacine videos. It also matters a lot for people who might see one of these and think they are seeing a thylacine. Yet there is no mention at all in the articles. It's so weird.

Here's a normal red fox outline.
Perhaps the mange in OZ is too mundane to mention.
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Old 14th July 2017, 07:46 PM   #3233
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What's the reason for all the Thylacine ambiguity if they haven't been seen in over 80 years? All of a sudden one's gonna show up? Even supposing there's just a single breeding pair that only replicates itself incestuously every 10 years long generation, how could they have not been found by now? So many previous specimens were easily found, hunted and killed, yet now they're sleek and stealth ninjas never to be "officially" seen again, but they're out there? To paraphrase The Shrike, Bigfoot anyone?
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Old 14th July 2017, 09:24 PM   #3234
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
I'm sorry but I'm missing your point. If I'm looking for sounds of Campephilus A but I only have recordings of the similar Campephilus B, it makes fine sense to me to search recordings for signatures of Campephilus B sounds as plausible evidence for Campephilus A in an area outside the distribution of Campephilus B but within the historical distribution of Campephilus A.

Analysis of the double-knocks was actually quite robust, with comparison to similar sounds only revealed through the physical parameters of Campephilus B double-knocks and any sounds that met strict criteria to match those parameters.
Marginally compelling, except for the fact that Pileated WP (common in the area) also have been known to produce double knocks that are indistinguishable from double knocks of Campephilus woodpeckers.
My bolding.
According to Cornell, "In most cases, these can be identified by their proximity to typical Pileated drum rolls".
So doubt remains even on identifying common Pileated knocking.
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There are plenty of reasons to be critical of the Lab's conclusion that there was at least one extant Ivory-billed Woodpecker in Arkansas in 2004 and 2005. I don't have a problem with the double-knock analysis from automated recording units. They deployed these things all over the Southeastern US and the only place they obtained recordings that met their stringent criteria was in the Big Woods of eastern Arkansas.
Well, I have to argue that applying their "stringent criteria" is all well and good, but when one of the critical double-knock criteria, the inter-strike interval, appears to be largely arbitrary. Unfortunately the only document that seems to be missing from their site, is the one that explains how they determined a range of 60-120ms.

They argue that their conclusions that the double-knocks are plausible evidence because it is "quantitative" - but it is quantified against a seemingly arbitrary benchmark whose documentary evidence is currently missing - since 2007 or so according to the Wayback Machine (your GoogleFu may be better than mine).

As I said, I felt they acted just a little like wide-eyed, wishful-thinking "cryptozoologists" of a lesser scientific background. As such, Cornell's endless analyses and discussions need to be taken with just as much salt, IMO.
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Old 16th July 2017, 04:58 PM   #3235
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So what you're saying is you can start a fire with your thoughts the Thylacineus transformed into a species of Woodpeckerus in Arkansasus and nobody noticed except a famous cryptozoologistus in a campus bus? Great, just great!
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Old 16th July 2017, 05:01 PM   #3236
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Yeah - sorry about the derail there, but the discussion was really about evidence and analyses.
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Old 16th July 2017, 05:16 PM   #3237
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Yeah - sorry about the derail there, but the discussion was really about evidence and analyses.
You're fine, I've apparently resorted to trolling.
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Old 16th July 2017, 05:21 PM   #3238
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Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
You're fine, I've simply resorted to trolling.
After visiting Norway, I can understand how some believe trolls exist.
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Old 15th September 2017, 10:56 AM   #3239
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Cryptozoology Bleeds Into the Paranormal

http://sharonahill.com/its-all-very-...at-cryptidcon/
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Old 15th September 2017, 11:01 AM   #3240
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
The funny thing is, in this very thread a while back I'd already spoken about the werewolf thing, and how popular it was (and still is in parts of Europe) and how since the advent of the Bigfoot Boom it had died down, and been replaced.

Now, it's supposedly coming back into vogue.
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