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Old 10th September 2013, 11:23 AM   #241
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
If you had never seen moose tracks before how would you know they were moose tracks? And if you had never seen a moose and there are no clear pictures of a moose how could you be sure what you sighted was a moose?
Looks like a horse in a moose suit to me.
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Old 10th September 2013, 11:34 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Chris, I'm not saying you are in need of medical help. I'm not saying you are lying. I am saying that you can't come on here and say they exist, "they do", without providing some evidence. Do you realize how silly it is, to say an animal 10-12' tall is lurking about in semi-rural counties in Kentucky? Think carefully about what you are saying. You are saying that you can drive somewhere, park your car in a parking lot, walk for an hour on a trail, and run into creatures that are 10-12' tall, yet you can't get a clear photograph of one. That is extremely silly.
It is ridiculous, isn't it?
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Old 10th September 2013, 11:35 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
It is ridiculous, isn't it?
You obviously don't know about the bigfoots hanging out in forest preserves in the Chicago suburbs.
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Old 10th September 2013, 12:41 PM   #244
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There is no excuse in this day and age for having indistinct, blurry photos of the alleged bigfoot. For a about a hundred dollars, you can buy a trail camera that will take fantastic sharp and clear photos.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...w=1280&bih=746

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...w=1280&bih=746

If they really want to find this alleged bigfoot, how about planting a few of these in the areas they suspect it lives.
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Old 10th September 2013, 12:44 PM   #245
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Trail cameras are already installed throughout the Bigfoot habitat and range.
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Old 10th September 2013, 12:46 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The point of the scenario is that I am presenting exactly what you are presenting, except for moose in NC vs bigfoot in KY.
. . . And that moose is a real, known, described taxon.
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Old 10th September 2013, 12:47 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It is an almost universal truth that Bigfooters have a very serious problem being civil. The history of this forum is a history of believers and knowers going off the deep end. We have a cemetery here with their gravestones.
Bill Munns has a whole mausoleum all by himself, 'course it's off limits in the Deep Storage area.
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Old 10th September 2013, 12:48 PM   #248
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The fact that there's never been a carcass or skeletal remains found is proof enough for me that BF is a myth - no mammal dies of old age in the wild, and they don't get to wander off to the "elephant's graveyard" to hide their existence.
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Old 10th September 2013, 01:00 PM   #249
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With apologies to the late, great Harry Nilsson:

Footer bought a Zag-a-nut, he bought it for a dime,
Sister had another one, she paid it for a cam
They got a cam and a Zag-a-nut, they set it all up,
Cam and a Zag-a-nut, they called the Bigfoot, woke him up
Said "Bigfoot, is there nothing we can take
said Bigfoot, 'cuz the skeptics think you're fake."

(Bigfoot voice)

Now lemme get this straight
You got a cam and a Zag-a-nut, you set it all up
Just a cam and a Zag-a-nut, call de Bigfoot, woke him up...

I'll finish this later, got too many ideas running around in my head right now plus I'm at work, gotta at least pretend to be productive.
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Old 10th September 2013, 01:03 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
You obviously don't know about the bigfoots hanging out in forest preserves in the Chicago suburbs.
The bf of the 'burbs.
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Old 10th September 2013, 01:11 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I do have a few concerns with the film. The "diaper butt" is not one of them.
The link below is a pic of a gorilla that someone added a football to.
I think it serves as an example that a "big booty" may not be uncommon to large primates.

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures...tball--643.jpg
The butt is round and has no horizontal line. Patty on the other hand does not show such a plump butt and plenty of bizarely placed horoziontal line matching no muscle or skinfold in currently known primate.
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Old 10th September 2013, 01:13 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
The gorilla is not standing fully erect but it is on a photo shop site and has been tampered with. Here's one that's a little better.
http://wheezer.org/GorillaButtLg.jpg

Dafydd, I don't wanna take us too far off topic as I don't want to discuss or defend the P/G film at length here. Photos like these are just some of the reasons I don't see a problem with an oversize butt on a large primate, especially one that has adapted to bipedal locomotion.
Is it intentional that you do not show the *profile* which is far more relevant ?









taken from : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-IS-human.html

No diaper butt.

ETA: who knew the daily mail would be so educatif

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Old 10th September 2013, 02:17 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Why does Patty have such long legs?

Hmmm.
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Old 10th September 2013, 03:34 PM   #254
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY
If I could get 5 mil for shoot a good HD photo or video that'd be nice. But without a body it likely could not pass as authentic footage of an unknown creature. The easy explanation would be it was a Hollywood production video/pic until then I've only got campfire stories.
FTFY

Finally, a sense of humor. I was beginning to wonder.
No, seriously, learn how to focus a camera - otherwise all you have are campfire stories.
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Old 10th September 2013, 03:41 PM   #255
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It is going to be hilarious watching Figbooters jump through smaller and smaller hoops as time goes on having to explain why no one can get a clear picture/video of bigfoot in a world were pretty much all of the population has a camera on them at all times.

Have Figbooters seen anyone under the age of 25? Have you seen their immediate, almost reflexive reaction to seeing anything out of the ordinary?
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Old 10th September 2013, 04:07 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Trail cameras are already installed throughout the Bigfoot habitat and range.
Are you serial? Game cam coverage is a joke. If 1 million game cams were operating around the clock and each one covered 2000 square feet, then they would cover the area denoted by the red dot on the map below (mid-Ontario).



Fallacy: Appeal to Ignorance

"After thousands of years and millions of game cams and billions of searchers, if bigfoot existed we would have discovered it by now."

An appeal to ignorance is an argument for or against a proposition on the basis of a lack of evidence against or for it. If there is positive evidence for the conclusion, then of course we have other reasons for accepting it, but a lack of evidence by itself is no evidence. In all its carnations, this is the fallacy that skeptics commit the most often.

Just sayin' this skeptical argument is weak tea. Otherwise, hey Sheriff.
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Old 10th September 2013, 04:07 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Trail cameras are already installed throughout the Bigfoot habitat and range.
So why haven't we seen any results?

These things can trigger from 50+ feet away. They don't require the subject to just about face-plant the camera in order to work.

If there were as many bigfeet wandering around in those trail areas as "Finding Bigfoot"* seems to imply (they chase at least one every programme), we ought to have dozens of clear, sharp full-frame photos, not just a couple of indistinct, blurry cropped ones.


* if anyone is wondering why I would watch "Finding Bigfoot", well, I like the comedy angle. Its quite funny watching a bunch of grown men (and women) running around like headless chickens, in the dark, chasing something that doesn't even exist!
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Last edited by smartcooky; 10th September 2013 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 10th September 2013, 04:10 PM   #258
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Gorillas are quadrupeds; our big buttocks are for bipedal locomotion. Long distance walking and running. Gorillas don't need those for lounging around eating leaves, or knuckle-walking around their habitat.

But the problem with the PGF "diaper butt" isn't its size: that's to be expected in a bipedal ape or whatever "she" is supposed to be. No, the main trouble is with that butt's loose, lumpy, baggy, nonfunctional appearance.

Show us a picture of an ape with one of those (cue Wal-Mart pic bonanza) and I'll show you a domesticated animal ("person") who lounges around doing very little after first evolving to have a big one for locomotion.

If BF has a big, lumpy diaper butt that means it evolved to stride over long distances and now just hangs out doing comparatively nothing. That doesn't fit the reports of its behavior, nor what we see in the PG film.

Also, did I mention the pelvic stitch lines that look exactly like the Gemora suit which believers prefer to ignore?
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Old 10th September 2013, 04:12 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
Are you serial? Game cam coverage is a joke. If 1 million game cams were operating around the clock and each one covered 2000 square feet, then they would cover the area denoted by the red dot on the map below (mid-Ontario).

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...onGamecams.gif

Fallacy: Appeal to Ignorance

"After thousands of years and millions of game cams and billions of searchers, if bigfoot existed we would have discovered it by now."

An appeal to ignorance is an argument for or against a proposition on the basis of a lack of evidence against or for it. If there is positive evidence for the conclusion, then of course we have other reasons for accepting it, but a lack of evidence by itself is no evidence. In all its carnations, this is the fallacy that skeptics commit the most often.

Just sayin' this skeptical argument is weak tea. Otherwise, hey Sheriff.
Therefore unicorns.
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Old 10th September 2013, 04:16 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
Are you serial? Game cam coverage is a joke. If 1 million game cams were operating around the clock and each one covered 2000 square feet, then they would cover the area denoted by the red dot on the map below (mid-Ontario).
A bit misleading though.

The bigfoot crowd claim to have seen them within a few feet in certain areas. If bigfoot is real, then its only means of transportation is on foot, so I doubt "individuals" would range over a wide area.
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Old 10th September 2013, 04:17 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
Are you serial? Game cam coverage is a joke. If 1 million game cams were operating around the clock and each one covered 2000 square feet, then they would cover the area denoted by the red dot on the map below (mid-Ontario).

Just sayin' this skeptical argument is weak tea. Otherwise, hey Sheriff.
Would you say then that Bigfoot is the only large North American mammal that has not been captured somewhere on a trail camera?
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Old 10th September 2013, 04:20 PM   #262
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It's more than "misleading", it's baloney. I claim that I saw a large ape living in the woods. A team goes out to look for hair, scat, skin, blood, any sign of its passing apart from a hoaxable "print", any bone or fossil remains of its ancestors, and turns up nothing. This happens hundreds or thousands of times across decades. That means the animal doesn't exist.
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Old 10th September 2013, 04:24 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
Are you serial? Game cam coverage is a joke. If 1 million game cams were operating around the clock and each one covered 2000 square feet, then they would cover the area denoted by the red dot on the map below (mid-Ontario).
These Game Cams have zero problem taking pictures of every other large North American animal.

Quote:
Fallacy: Appeal to Ignorance

"After thousands of years and millions of game cams and billions of searchers, if bigfoot existed we would have discovered it by now."

An appeal to ignorance is an argument for or against a proposition on the basis of a lack of evidence against or for it. If there is positive evidence for the conclusion, then of course we have other reasons for accepting it, but a lack of evidence by itself is no evidence. In all its carnations, this is the fallacy that skeptics commit the most often.
Not letting you make stuff up and not provide evidence is not "Appeal to Ignorance."
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Old 10th September 2013, 04:48 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
Therefore unicorns.
Or the celestial teapot. Lack of bigfoot is the bigfoot enthusiast's greatest problem and they will try any sham to direct attention away from that problem.

They just see it too often in too many places. Places it isn't.
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Old 10th September 2013, 04:56 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
...Fallacy:Appeal to Ignorance

"After thousands of years and millions of game cams and billions of searchers, if bigfoot existed we would have discovered it by now."

An appeal to ignorance is an argument for or against a proposition on the basis of a lack of evidence against or for it. If there is positive evidence for the conclusion, then of course we have other reasons for accepting it, but a lack of evidence by itself is no evidence. In all its carnations, this is the fallacy that skeptics commit the most often...
You should be careful with that kind of rhetoric. You could end up asking Santa Claus for a bigfoot.

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Old 10th September 2013, 05:10 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Would you say then that Bigfoot is the only large North American mammal that has not been captured somewhere on a trail camera?
My point is that this is not knowable. Just like we can't "know" which animals are extinct. But we also can't prove Santa doesn't exist either. Such is the burden of the skeptic.
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Old 10th September 2013, 05:15 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Vortigern99 View Post
It's more than "misleading", it's baloney. I claim that I saw a large ape living in the woods. A team goes out to look for hair, scat, skin, blood, any sign of its passing apart from a hoaxable "print", any bone or fossil remains of its ancestors, and turns up nothing. This happens hundreds or thousands of times across decades. That means the animal doesn't exist.
Sorry, but this is a classic example of an Appeal to Ignorance. All I'm saying is that this argument is weak and can never win a debate. I didn't make up the fallacies.
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Old 10th September 2013, 05:22 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
Sorry, but this is a classic example of an Appeal to Ignorance. All I'm saying is that this argument is weak and can never win a debate. I didn't make up the fallacies.
No you just applied it incorrectly.

And no one's concerned with winning a debate. The total lack of any credible evidence for the existence of something means that that something does not exist.
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Old 10th September 2013, 05:24 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
A bit misleading though.

The bigfoot crowd claim to have seen them within a few feet in certain areas. If bigfoot is real, then its only means of transportation is on foot, so I doubt "individuals" would range over a wide area.
The opinions of the bigfoot crowd are irrelevant since they can't be trusted. The range of bigfoot, however, is whatever it takes to make it a real animal. Also the population is whatever it takes to remain viable, yet undiscovered. We have to avoid using the numerous reports to claim bigfoot is everywhere, yet no where. It's a weak argument based on the bigfoot crowd's already dubious reported sightings.

Last edited by inn; 10th September 2013 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 10th September 2013, 05:26 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
No you just applied it incorrectly.

And no one's concerned with winning a debate. The total lack of any credible evidence for the existence of something means that that something does not exist.
No it doesn't. It means it likely does not exist. But it is not a fact. It's a guess.
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Old 10th September 2013, 05:28 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
My point is that this is not knowable. Just like we can't "know" which animals are extinct. But we also can't prove Santa doesn't exist either. Such is the burden of the skeptic.
A creature the size of Bigfoot with sufficient numbers to maintain a breeding population would a leave verifiable physical trace on the world.

There comes a point when the utter lack of ANY evidence becomes evidence something does not in fact exist.

The trope of "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" only can take you so far in a debate and we've long since crossed that line.

I'd love for Bigfoot and any number of other cryptids to be real. That is the honest truth.

Bigfoot simply is a legendary mythical creature and that is all it will ever be.
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Old 10th September 2013, 05:30 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
Sorry, but this is a classic example of an Appeal to Ignorance. All I'm saying is that this argument is weak and can never win a debate. I didn't make up the fallacies.
This isn't a formal debate but a discussion concerning a cryptid and the lack of any physical evidence where it would logically be expected.

Also, as Spindrift noted, you're misapplying your pet fallacy incorrectly in any event.
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Old 10th September 2013, 05:33 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
No it doesn't. It means it likely does not exist. But it is not a fact. It's a guess.
No, it's not a guess but a provisional conclusion arrived at through a logical examination of a hypothesis and the evidence provided for same.
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Old 10th September 2013, 05:43 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
My point is that this is not knowable. Just like we can't "know" which animals are extinct. But we also can't prove Santa doesn't exist either. Such is the burden of the skeptic.
Yes, it's the "burden of the skeptic" to show that unicorns, dragons, fairies, leprechauns, modern-day dinosaurs, ghosts and sixteen-toed orangutans don't exist. Otherwise you can say they do and no one can say you're wrong because logical fallacies and stuff.
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Old 10th September 2013, 05:44 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
No it doesn't. It means it likely does not exist. But it is not a fact. It's a guess.
No it's not a guess. The evidence for the existence of unicorns and leprechauns is just as strong (i.e. there isn't any) as bigfoot. Is it just a guess that unicorns and leprechauns don't exist?
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Old 10th September 2013, 06:08 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Who?
An elevator attendant.
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Old 10th September 2013, 06:28 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Alareth View Post
A creature the size of Bigfoot with sufficient numbers to maintain a breeding population would a leave verifiable physical trace on the world.

There comes a point when the utter lack of ANY evidence becomes evidence something does not in fact exist.

The trope of "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" only can take you so far in a debate and we've long since crossed that line.

I'd love for Bigfoot and any number of other cryptids to be real. That is the honest truth.

Bigfoot simply is a legendary mythical creature and that is all it will ever be.
As a kid I went to the movies and saw a documentary on bigfoot back in the 70's. I thought it was real at the time but it's quite apparent that bigfoot is just a legend like flying horses.

If someone really shot a bigfoot, they would have made one of the biggest discoveries in the last several decades. Nobody would wait until 2014 to put it on display.
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Old 10th September 2013, 07:02 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by inn View Post
My point is that this is not knowable. Just like we can't "know" which animals are extinct.
Yes, what we think we know is provisional. So? Grown-ups sometimes have to make actual decisions on that evidence, for example when determining if a species is extinct and no longer warrants the allocation of limited budgets to fund surveys to find it.

I am as confident that there is no bigfoot as I am that there are no Smilodon hiding in a remote valley in the San Bernadinos, which is as confident as I am that our planet is in orbit around the Sun.
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Old 10th September 2013, 07:02 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
So why haven't we seen any results?

These things can trigger from 50+ feet away. They don't require the subject to just about face-plant the camera in order to work.

If there were as many bigfeet wandering around in those trail areas as "Finding Bigfoot"* seems to imply (they chase at least one every programme), we ought to have dozens of clear, sharp full-frame photos, not just a couple of indistinct, blurry cropped ones.


* if anyone is wondering why I would watch "Finding Bigfoot", well, I like the comedy angle. Its quite funny watching a bunch of grown men (and women) running around like headless chickens, in the dark, chasing something that doesn't even exist!
I'm sure that paycheck is quite real.
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Old 10th September 2013, 07:06 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Yes, what we think we know is provisional. So? Grown-ups sometimes have to make actual decisions on that evidence, for example when determining if a species is extinct and no longer warrants the allocation of limited budgets to fund surveys to find it.

I am as confident that there is no bigfoot as I am that there are no Smilodon hiding in a remote valley in the San Bernadinos, which is as confident as I am that our planet is in orbit around the Sun.
This, this, a thousand times this. Otherwise it's turtles (and pegasi, and brontosauruses, etc. ad nauseam) all the way down.
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