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Old 22nd February 2019, 02:44 AM   #1
Wudang
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Putin finances Italian party

Via https://twitter.com/David_K_Clark/st...46220162949120

Quote:
Huge story breaking in Italy. Putin agreed to a request from Lega Nord leader Matteo Salvini to covertly finance his Euro election campaign. The plan was to conceal the payment behind an apparently normal business deal. Sound familiar?
Source : http://espresso.repubblica.it/inchie...ussia-1.331835

I'm unfamiliar with the source and can't read Italian. Anyone better able to evaluate this?
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Old 22nd February 2019, 02:59 AM   #2
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Regarding the source, La Republica used to be a very left wing paper back in the '70s and '80s. It's now Italian centre-left (US ultra-left).

As far as I'm aware, it's a fairly credible source.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 11:55 AM   #3
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Old News. Putin apparently was messing around in the Britex vote as well.
PUtin is out to destroy the Western Democracies by creating chaos by interfering with the electorial process.
I think this is his basic motive;if he can put somebody in power who can do him favors, that is just a nice bonus.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 11:59 AM   #4
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Putin is playing an ultimately stupid game. It might look like he's winning, but that is only because no one is currently playing against him.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 12:00 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Putin is playing an ultimately stupid game. It might look like he's winning, but that is only because no one is currently playing against him.
What would happen if they did?
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Old 22nd February 2019, 12:05 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Putin is playing an ultimately stupid game. It might look like he's winning, but that is only because no one is currently playing against him.
What surprised me is that Putin did not do a very good job of hiding what he was doing. One would expect more competence from a guy who used to head the KGB.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 12:06 PM   #7
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What would happen if they did?
For starters?
Freeze all assets of Putin and his loyalists.
that is why Putin hates the Magnitsky Act so much.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 12:11 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What surprised me is that Putin did not do a very good job of hiding what he was doing. One would expect more competence from a guy who used to head the KGB.
Or... he doesn't care about this part coming out. And maybe there's more stuff we don't know about that he's been pretty good at hiding.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 02:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Or... he doesn't care about this part coming out. And maybe there's more stuff we don't know about that he's been pretty good at hiding.
I think the first.

Word is that his goal was to destabilize various democracies and increase strife/chaos. For that purpose, someone getting caught is as good as him paying off a party. In fact, the "reveal" could well be an intended component of the plan.

And not just in Italy.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 02:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
I think the first.

Word is that his goal was to destabilize various democracies and increase strife/chaos. For that purpose, someone getting caught is as good as him paying off a party. In fact, the "reveal" could well be an intended component of the plan.

And not just in Italy.
I admit, that is a point I had not thought of. If you are a foreign government trying to cause chaos by interfering in an election letting people know you are interfering might add quite a bit to the chaos.
SO Putin might be cleverer then I thought.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 12:57 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I admit, that is a point I had not thought of. If you are a foreign government trying to cause chaos by interfering in an election letting people know you are interfering might add quite a bit to the chaos.

SO Putin might be cleverer then I thought.
Or even less resource consuming make it known that is what you are trying to do and you'll start a new "reds under the bed" paranoia.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 02:48 AM   #12
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Or it's part of Russia's "hypernormalisation" strategy. Per the eponymous film by Adam Curtis
Quote:
In Russia, Vladimir Putin and his cabinet of political technologists create mass confusion. Vladislav Surkov uses ideas from art to turn Russian politics into a bewildering piece of theatre. Donald Trump used the same techniques in his presidential campaign by using language from Occupy Wall Street and the extreme racist right-wing. Curtis asserts that Trump "defeated journalism" by rendering its fact-checking abilities irrelevant.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 05:43 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
I think the first.

Word is that his goal was to destabilize various democracies and increase strife/chaos. For that purpose, someone getting caught is as good as him paying off a party. In fact, the "reveal" could well be an intended component of the plan.

And not just in Italy.


Yes, it acts a force multiplier. Now, any time someone thinks there's even the slightest little bit "off" about a particular political party's success, they're much more likely to start throwing around accusations of being on Putin's payroll. Confusion abounds.
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Old 25th February 2019, 03:18 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Putin is playing an ultimately stupid game. It might look like he's winning, but that is only because no one is currently playing against him.
Yup. Russia is seeding the wind, and we know what they can expect to reap.

On the other hand, he's not playing to "win" in the conventional sense. To him a "victory" is something that sees Russia as powerful as possible when he kicks the bucket. If it collapses into a failed state shortly thereafter all the better, at least his memory will be the last time ever Russia was relevant at the world stage.

Cf. Hugo Chavez.

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Old 25th February 2019, 01:25 PM   #15
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When Putin kicks the bucket, I predict a new "Time of Troubles" for Russia.
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Old 26th February 2019, 02:43 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
When Putin kicks the bucket, I predict a new "Time of Troubles" for Russia.
That's like predicting casting a fair six sided die, where sides are marked with numbers ranging from 1 to 6 once will produce a result between 1 and 6 including 1 and 6 as possibilities).

But Putin will be absolved of all blame by Russian historians, he will be the last emperor to keep Russia peaceful and strong, the next guy will take all the blame.

Just like Venezuela, really. Maduro was set up to fail, he is a less than mediocre man in way over his head, but no one could do things notably better than him anyway. Venezuela was ruined by Chavez already, all his successor could do is to keep the ship afloat a little longer.

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Old 27th February 2019, 02:54 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
That's like predicting casting a fair six sided die, where sides are marked with numbers ranging from 1 to 6 once will produce a result between 1 and 6 including 1 and 6 as possibilities).

But Putin will be absolved of all blame by Russian historians, he will be the last emperor to keep Russia peaceful and strong, the next guy will take all the blame.

Just like Venezuela, really. Maduro was set up to fail, he is a less than mediocre man in way over his head, but no one could do things notably better than him anyway. Venezuela was ruined by Chavez already, all his successor could do is to keep the ship afloat a little longer.

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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

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Old 27th February 2019, 08:08 PM   #18
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Bunga bunga?
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Old 27th February 2019, 11:13 PM   #19
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Plus Putin always has his loyal RT and Sputnik to come from behind and yell "nuh uh!" at Western mainstream media. It works, unfortunately.

RT is Putin's favorite peacetime weapon, for good reason.
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