Dear Users… (A thread for Sysadmin, Technical Support, and Help Desk people) Part 10 - Page 63

arthwollipot · 5th June 2023, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Sometimes I think it might be better if it didn't ask at all. If it won't work without the certificate but the user insists it MUST work, just install the frigging thing and move on.

Yeah well when it's an essential tool that everybody needs and is asking to revalidate the certificate for NO REASON WHATSOEVER...

Ahem.

arthwollipot · 6th June 2023, 09:41 PM

Apparently it's called "Temporary Performance Loading" now.

I've just submitted my form so that I get paid for the next four weeks at the higher level.

The Man · 7th June 2023, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Apparently it's called "Temporary Performance Loading" now.

I've just submitted my form so that I get paid for the next four weeks at the higher level.

Sounds like some kind of euphemism for steroid use. “No, no it was just Temporary Performance Loading”!!

catsmate · 7th June 2023, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Apparently it's called "Temporary Performance Loading" now.

I've just submitted my form so that I get paid for the next four weeks at the higher level.

Yeah, one of my friends is becoming a "shared resource" at work....

arthwollipot · 7th June 2023, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Yeah, one of my friends is becoming a "shared resource" at work....

That's been my fantasy for, like, forever.

arthwollipot · 7th June 2023, 05:43 PM

I really wish we could send out an all-staff communication saying "The Certificate Validation message that some staff have been getting is genuine - please accept the certificate". I think we'd cut our current calls by about a fifth if we did that.

novaphile · 7th June 2023, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I really wish we could send out an all-staff communication saying "The Certificate Validation message that some staff have been getting is genuine - please accept the certificate". I think we'd cut our current calls by about a fifth if we did that.

I would have thought that pushing the certificate to all desktops would be easier.

arthwollipot · 7th June 2023, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by novaphile

I would have thought that pushing the certificate to all desktops would be easier.

I'm pretty sure it's automated, and that nobody realises that it's happening except the people it's happening to. And us.

That's the kind of thing that happens when you have a client base of some 6,000 users in fourteen different agencies.

arthwollipot · 7th June 2023, 07:45 PM

I just had a sort of mini-PA meeting with my admin team, who said that they were very happy with my performance at this time, including my performance as Team Leader, even though it's only been three days so far. It was very encouraging.

Darat · 7th June 2023, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I just had a sort of mini-PA meeting with my admin team, who said that they were very happy with my performance at this time, including my performance as Team Leader, even though it's only been three days so far. It was very encouraging.

Right before they dropped in holiday requests...

arthwollipot · 7th June 2023, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Right before they dropped in holiday requests...

I was going to request another week's holiday, which is something I've been doing 2-3 times a year for a couple of years, but then a whole lot of stuff started happening and it just isn't a great time for it right now. I might try for August. The position I'm acting in will be advertised in October.

The Man · 8th June 2023, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I just had a sort of mini-PA meeting with my admin team, who said that they were very happy with my performance at this time, including my performance as Team Leader, even though it's only been three days so far. It was very encouraging.

Hey, three days without a serious screw up, wish I could do that.

catsmate · 8th June 2023, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I just had a sort of mini-PA meeting with my admin team, who said that they were very happy with my performance at this time, including my performance as Team Leader, even though it's only been three days so far. It was very encouraging.

Blue Mountain · 8th June 2023, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

I was going to request another week's holiday, which is something I've been doing 2-3 times a year for a couple of years, but then a whole lot of stuff started happening and it just isn't a great time for it right now. I might try for August. The position I'm acting in will be advertised in October.

You take vacations in the middle of winter? All right, you're in Australia, so it's not like you're facing knee deep snow and -25 temperatures.

arthwollipot · 8th June 2023, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

You take vacations in the middle of winter? All right, you're in Australia, so it's not like you're facing knee deep snow and -25 temperatures.

We can have holidays whenever we like, as long as we have the leave balance available. Right now I have 8.93259 days of annual leave available, which is remarkably specific. I usually have the first week of January off, which is when I get in all the beach time I can. I'm kidding. I'm a nerd - I live in a cave.

Our HR system is going down shortly for an extended time for some much-needed upgrades so I won't be able to request the leave for a bit. But that's okay.

JoeMorgue · 9th June 2023, 06:19 AM

*Sighs*

1. You decided to move a user into a new "office."
2. The "office" was an old storage room with no data drops and no power outlets.
3. You've already moved someone into the user's original office.
4. The user has no where to work and is basically standing there counting ceiling tiles.

Where in steps 1-4 did anything happen that was my problem? Why are you demanding I "figure something out." I'm not an electrician and you have a different contractor for your internal ethernet wiring.

TragicMonkey · 9th June 2023, 10:42 AM

Dear User: no, we can't "just copy" an existing piece of software and change one thing so it serves a completely different purpose for a different audience. I spent two years making it customized to the highly peculiar requirements of one particular purpose and one particular audience. I realize you're a) cheap and b) very stupid but no, this is not going to happen. What you are asking is the equivalent of getting a dental crown placement, the same in every respect as a normal dental crown placement, except instead of putting it on a tooth you want it to go on an eyeball and fix their vision.

Norman Alexander · 9th June 2023, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Dear User: no, we can't "just copy" an existing piece of software and change one thing so it serves a completely different purpose for a different audience. I spent two years making it customized to the highly peculiar requirements of one particular purpose and one particular audience. I realize you're a) cheap and b) very stupid but no, this is not going to happen. What you are asking is the equivalent of getting a dental crown placement, the same in every respect as a normal dental crown placement, except instead of putting it on a tooth you want it to go on an eyeball and fix their vision.

Been down that road...

"I want your specialised payroll software to be modified to manage a bitumen production plant as well!"

"Nope. Not possible. But here's the source code. You have fun, now!"

"But...but...but I'm not a programmer! You are!"

"Yep, That's why I said what you asked for was not possible. You would have to pay me more than the cost of buying the proper software to make the changes, and the result would still be crap. So perhaps you should STOP BEING A CHEAPSKATE AND ACTUALLY PAY FOR THE RIGHT STUFF??!!"

JoeMorgue · 9th June 2023, 01:44 PM

People deeply, deeply understand that if I were capable of automating their processes to the point that all they had to do was push a button and everything would magically work like they want it to it would, near literally almost always, be easier to do AND take them pressing the button out of the equation.

I'd love to see some kind of metric on how much IT staff are expected to basically "Automate everything to some exact balancing point where my job requires zero effort but not so much that I'm obviously not needed." Because I bet it ain't zero.

a_unique_person · 10th June 2023, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Dear User: no, we can't "just copy" an existing piece of software and change one thing so it serves a completely different purpose for a different audience. I spent two years making it customized to the highly peculiar requirements of one particular purpose and one particular audience. I realize you're a) cheap and b) very stupid but no, this is not going to happen. What you are asking is the equivalent of getting a dental crown placement, the same in every respect as a normal dental crown placement, except instead of putting it on a tooth you want it to go on an eyeball and fix their vision.

What they mean is it just has to look the same, roughly.

Wudang · 10th June 2023, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Dear User: no, we can't "just copy" an existing piece of software and change one thing so it serves a completely different purpose for a different audience. I spent two years making it customized to the highly peculiar requirements of one particular purpose and one particular audience. I realize you're a) cheap and b) very stupid but no, this is not going to happen. What you are asking is the equivalent of getting a dental crown placement, the same in every respect as a normal dental crown placement, except instead of putting it on a tooth you want it to go on an eyeball and fix their vision.

Of course you can. It's just 1s and 0s, just move them around a bit. How hard can that be?

TragicMonkey · 10th June 2023, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

What they mean is it just has to look the same, roughly.

Not in this case, the people making the request never see the software or its output themselves.

novaphile · 11th June 2023, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Wudang

Of course you can. It's just 1s and 0s, just move them around a bit. How hard can that be?

"You computer people are just dumb typists anyway, all you do is sit there typing all day."

arthwollipot · 12th June 2023, 11:36 PM

Something happened today that caused our EL1 to post a table-flipping gif to the Leadership Chat on Teams.

Norman Alexander · 13th June 2023, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Something happened today that caused our EL1 to post a table-flipping gif to the Leadership Chat on Teams.

Oooo, share!

TragicMonkey · 13th June 2023, 02:11 PM

Dear User: do NOT ask me for X during a meeting for which I have already supplied X. It only causes you to look foolish and me to get angry. You didn't remember you had already asked for X seven days ago, you didn't register that you had received X six days ago, and you apparently didn't notice that X was open and being viewed by twenty people, including yourself, at that very moment. In conclusion: I'm going to scoop your eyeballs out, sprinkle them with garlic salt, then stuff them into the wrong sockets.

Yours in professionalism,
TragicMonkey

arthwollipot · 13th June 2023, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Oooo, share!

It's actually a bit complicated, which is why I didn't. In a nutshell, the IT system for one of our two largest departments is being reorganised, with new role groups and organisational codes. As a result, we can't process New Starter Requests (NSRs) during the transitional period as there will be two different role groups for each section in the org chart and reconciling them all after the fact would be a nightmare.

So the PTB decided to restrict access to the NSR form on our portal. Basically, shut the form down. Without telling anyone first that this was what they were going to do.

No table was flipped at this time. But it gets better.

Since our two largest departments were, until the most recent MOG, one big superdepartment, the two are still linked in a lot of ways. Including using the same NSR form. So when we shut it down for department 1, we were also shutting it down for department 2, even though there was no corresponding reorganisation to justify it.

That's when our EL1 flipped the table.

Norman Alexander · 13th June 2023, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

It's actually a bit complicated, which is why I didn't. In a nutshell, the IT system for one of our two largest departments is being reorganised, with new role groups and organisational codes. As a result, we can't process New Starter Requests (NSRs) during the transitional period as there will be two different role groups for each section in the org chart and reconciling them all after the fact would be a nightmare.

So the PTB decided to restrict access to the NSR form on our portal. Basically, shut the form down. Without telling anyone first that this was what they were going to do.

No table was flipped at this time. But it gets better.

Since our two largest departments were, until the most recent MOG, one big superdepartment, the two are still linked in a lot of ways. Including using the same NSR form. So when we shut it down for department 1, we were also shutting it down for department 2, even though there was no corresponding reorganisation to justify it.

That's when our EL1 flipped the table.

More from the Didn't-Really-Think-That-Through Department.

Would love to see the gif.

arthwollipot · 13th June 2023, 07:20 PM

It was this one. Teams sources gifs from giphy.com.

We just had a pretty vociferous complaint from someone who wasn't able to submit a NSR form for someone who had started employment two weeks ago.

Sorry buddy, that one's on you.

Norman Alexander · 13th June 2023, 11:51 PM

Noice!

catsmate · 14th June 2023, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

It was this one. Teams sources gifs from giphy.com.

https://media.giphy.com/media/6lScd4x2D5Oko/giphy.gif

We just had a pretty vociferous complaint from someone who wasn't able to submit a NSR form for someone who had started employment two weeks ago.

Sorry buddy, that one's on you.

That's a good flip, one good tug, no hesitation, plenty of drama. A solid B/B+ performance.

TragicMonkey · 14th June 2023, 08:00 AM

"There shouldn't be a noticeable performance impact". Sweetie, darling, honey, baby, walrus: when a query that normally takes 42 seconds takes 14 minutes I'd say that's a pretty noticeable performance impact. If you need a practical demonstration to understand why 14 minutes is longer than 42 seconds try holding your breath for both lengths of time. I can assist with plastic wrap if you're having trouble performing this demonstration.

Darat · 14th June 2023, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

"There shouldn't be a noticeable performance impact". Sweetie, darling, honey, baby, walrus: when a query that normally takes 42 seconds takes 14 minutes I'd say that's a pretty noticeable performance impact. If you need a practical demonstration to understand why 14 minutes is longer than 42 seconds try holding your breath for both lengths of time. I can assist with plastic wrap if you're having trouble performing this demonstration.

And to think some say you aren't a team player, you are always willing to help your colleagues.

arthwollipot · 14th June 2023, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

That's a good flip, one good tug, no hesitation, plenty of drama. A solid B/B+ performance.

Idris Elba is very talented.

arthwollipot · 14th June 2023, 10:50 PM

Um, okay, so a weird thing just happened. How can I explain this?

When we were one big superdepartment, we operated under an Enterprise Agreement for that department. When we split off, we ended up with something called a Determination, which is a temporary agreement until a new agreement could be drawn up. We've been under this agreement since June of last year.

Apparently in this Determination we can only post working hours of 6am to 6pm. Our Service Desk operates, and has always operated, from 7am to 7pm. This means that any work after 6pm is classified as overtime.

I have worked until 6:30pm or 7pm literally every week in that time.

The upshot? I may be owed a crapton of overtime. We don't quite know yet, but at this point it seems likely.

My response:

Norman Alexander · 14th June 2023, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Um, okay, so a weird thing just happened. How can I explain this?

When we were one big superdepartment, we operated under an Enterprise Agreement for that department. When we split off, we ended up with something called a Determination, which is a temporary agreement until a new agreement could be drawn up. We've been under this agreement since June of last year.

Apparently in this Determination we can only post working hours of 6am to 6pm. Our Service Desk operates, and has always operated, from 7am to 7pm. This means that any work after 6pm is classified as overtime.

I have worked until 6:30pm or 7pm literally every week in that time.

The upshot? I may be owed a crapton of overtime. We don't quite know yet, but at this point it seems likely.

My response:

It's taken them only a year to figure this out? Like lightning!

arthwollipot · 14th June 2023, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

It's taken them only a year to figure this out? Like lightning!

I have no explanation for that. But I'm not about to complain.

TragicMonkey · 15th June 2023, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Um, okay, so a weird thing just happened. How can I explain this?

When we were one big superdepartment, we operated under an Enterprise Agreement for that department. When we split off, we ended up with something called a Determination, which is a temporary agreement until a new agreement could be drawn up. We've been under this agreement since June of last year.

Apparently in this Determination we can only post working hours of 6am to 6pm. Our Service Desk operates, and has always operated, from 7am to 7pm. This means that any work after 6pm is classified as overtime.

I have worked until 6:30pm or 7pm literally every week in that time.

The upshot? I may be owed a crapton of overtime. We don't quite know yet, but at this point it seems likely.

My response:

Um, doesn't that mean you've been late an hour every day for a year? Cancelling out the "extra" time at the end of the day? Isn't overtime determined by total hours worked, not the particular span of when they occur?

zooterkin · 15th June 2023, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Um, doesn't that mean you've been late an hour every day for a year? Cancelling out the "extra" time at the end of the day? Isn't overtime determined by total hours worked, not the particular span of when they occur?

I doubt that arth is working 12 hour days.

arthwollipot · 15th June 2023, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Um, doesn't that mean you've been late an hour every day for a year? Cancelling out the "extra" time at the end of the day? Isn't overtime determined by total hours worked, not the particular span of when they occur?

The Enterprise Agreement, and the interim Determination, specify what hours departmental staff are permitted to work. It's a 12-hour span, during which staff are required to work 7:30 per day. Most public servants are on Flex time, which means that they can choose when their 7:30 occurs, but only within that 6am to 6pm weekday span. Hours worked outside that time are classified as overtime. Because the Service Desk has a roster, management tells us when our 7:30 is going to be each week. I'm lucky enough that my management has been flexible enough to permit me to do late shifts on an unofficially permanent basis because as I said, I like it and everybody else hates it.

So the 6am - 6pm span in the Determination collides with the 7am - 7pm span in our Service Level Agreement. And apparently nobody noticed that until now. Bureaucracy moves slow.

5th June 2023, 05:35 PM	#2481
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Sometimes I think it might be better if it didn't ask at all. If it won't work without the certificate but the user insists it MUST work, just install the frigging thing and move on. Yeah well when it's an essential tool that everybody needs and is asking to revalidate the certificate for NO REASON WHATSOEVER... Ahem.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

6th June 2023, 09:41 PM	#2482
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	Apparently it's called "Temporary Performance Loading" now. I've just submitted my form so that I get paid for the next four weeks at the higher level.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

7th June 2023, 07:32 AM	#2483
The Man Unbanned zombie poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 18,221	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Apparently it's called "Temporary Performance Loading" now. I've just submitted my form so that I get paid for the next four weeks at the higher level. Sounds like some kind of euphemism for steroid use. “No, no it was just Temporary Performance Loading”!!
	__________________ BRAINZZZZZZZZ

7th June 2023, 11:22 AM	#2484
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 29,354	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Apparently it's called "Temporary Performance Loading" now. I've just submitted my form so that I get paid for the next four weeks at the higher level. Yeah, one of my friends is becoming a "shared resource" at work....
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

7th June 2023, 05:42 PM	#2485
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	Originally Posted by catsmate Yeah, one of my friends is becoming a "shared resource" at work.... That's been my fantasy for, like, forever.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

7th June 2023, 05:43 PM	#2486
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	I really wish we could send out an all-staff communication saying "The Certificate Validation message that some staff have been getting is genuine - please accept the certificate". I think we'd cut our current calls by about a fifth if we did that.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

7th June 2023, 06:02 PM	#2487
novaphile Quester of Doglets Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 5,652	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I really wish we could send out an all-staff communication saying "The Certificate Validation message that some staff have been getting is genuine - please accept the certificate". I think we'd cut our current calls by about a fifth if we did that. I would have thought that pushing the certificate to all desktops would be easier.
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

7th June 2023, 06:04 PM	#2488
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	Originally Posted by novaphile I would have thought that pushing the certificate to all desktops would be easier. I'm pretty sure it's automated, and that nobody realises that it's happening except the people it's happening to. And us. That's the kind of thing that happens when you have a client base of some 6,000 users in fourteen different agencies.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

7th June 2023, 07:45 PM	#2489
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	I just had a sort of mini-PA meeting with my admin team, who said that they were very happy with my performance at this time, including my performance as Team Leader, even though it's only been three days so far. It was very encouraging.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

7th June 2023, 10:16 PM	#2490
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 111,175	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I just had a sort of mini-PA meeting with my admin team, who said that they were very happy with my performance at this time, including my performance as Team Leader, even though it's only been three days so far. It was very encouraging. Right before they dropped in holiday requests...
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

7th June 2023, 11:06 PM	#2491
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	Originally Posted by Darat Right before they dropped in holiday requests... I was going to request another week's holiday, which is something I've been doing 2-3 times a year for a couple of years, but then a whole lot of stuff started happening and it just isn't a great time for it right now. I might try for August. The position I'm acting in will be advertised in October.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

8th June 2023, 06:18 AM	#2492
The Man Unbanned zombie poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 18,221	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I just had a sort of mini-PA meeting with my admin team, who said that they were very happy with my performance at this time, including my performance as Team Leader, even though it's only been three days so far. It was very encouraging. Hey, three days without a serious screw up, wish I could do that.
	__________________ BRAINZZZZZZZZ

8th June 2023, 06:40 AM	#2493
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 29,354	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I just had a sort of mini-PA meeting with my admin team, who said that they were very happy with my performance at this time, including my performance as Team Leader, even though it's only been three days so far. It was very encouraging.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

8th June 2023, 02:44 PM	#2494
Blue Mountain Resident Skeptical Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg Posts: 7,494	Originally Posted by arthwollipot I was going to request another week's holiday, which is something I've been doing 2-3 times a year for a couple of years, but then a whole lot of stuff started happening and it just isn't a great time for it right now. I might try for August. The position I'm acting in will be advertised in October. You take vacations in the middle of winter? All right, you're in Australia, so it's not like you're facing knee deep snow and -25 temperatures.
	__________________ The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French)

8th June 2023, 05:52 PM	#2495
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	Originally Posted by Blue Mountain You take vacations in the middle of winter? All right, you're in Australia, so it's not like you're facing knee deep snow and -25 temperatures. We can have holidays whenever we like, as long as we have the leave balance available. Right now I have 8.93259 days of annual leave available, which is remarkably specific. I usually have the first week of January off, which is when I get in all the beach time I can. I'm kidding. I'm a nerd - I live in a cave. Our HR system is going down shortly for an extended time for some much-needed upgrades so I won't be able to request the leave for a bit. But that's okay.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

9th June 2023, 06:19 AM	#2496
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 45,355	Sighs 1. You decided to move a user into a new "office." 2. The "office" was an old storage room with no data drops and no power outlets. 3. You've already moved someone into the user's original office. 4. The user has no where to work and is basically standing there counting ceiling tiles. Where in steps 1-4 did anything happen that was my problem? Why are you demanding I "figure something out." I'm not an electrician and you have a different contractor for your internal ethernet wiring.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

9th June 2023, 10:42 AM	#2497
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 67,072	Dear User: no, we can't "just copy" an existing piece of software and change one thing so it serves a completely different purpose for a different audience. I spent two years making it customized to the highly peculiar requirements of one particular purpose and one particular audience. I realize you're a) cheap and b) very stupid but no, this is not going to happen. What you are asking is the equivalent of getting a dental crown placement, the same in every respect as a normal dental crown placement, except instead of putting it on a tooth you want it to go on an eyeball and fix their vision.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

9th June 2023, 01:28 PM	#2498
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 15,736	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Dear User: no, we can't "just copy" an existing piece of software and change one thing so it serves a completely different purpose for a different audience. I spent two years making it customized to the highly peculiar requirements of one particular purpose and one particular audience. I realize you're a) cheap and b) very stupid but no, this is not going to happen. What you are asking is the equivalent of getting a dental crown placement, the same in every respect as a normal dental crown placement, except instead of putting it on a tooth you want it to go on an eyeball and fix their vision. Been down that road... "I want your specialised payroll software to be modified to manage a bitumen production plant as well!" "Nope. Not possible. But here's the source code. You have fun, now!" "But...but...but I'm not a programmer! You are!" "Yep, That's why I said what you asked for was not possible. You would have to pay me more than the cost of buying the proper software to make the changes, and the result would still be crap. So perhaps you should STOP BEING A CHEAPSKATE AND ACTUALLY PAY FOR THE RIGHT STUFF??!!"
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

9th June 2023, 01:44 PM	#2499
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 45,355	People deeply, deeply understand that if I were capable of automating their processes to the point that all they had to do was push a button and everything would magically work like they want it to it would, near literally almost always, be easier to do AND take them pressing the button out of the equation. I'd love to see some kind of metric on how much IT staff are expected to basically "Automate everything to some exact balancing point where my job requires zero effort but not so much that I'm obviously not needed." Because I bet it ain't zero.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

10th June 2023, 07:22 PM	#2500
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 45,737	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Dear User: no, we can't "just copy" an existing piece of software and change one thing so it serves a completely different purpose for a different audience. I spent two years making it customized to the highly peculiar requirements of one particular purpose and one particular audience. I realize you're a) cheap and b) very stupid but no, this is not going to happen. What you are asking is the equivalent of getting a dental crown placement, the same in every respect as a normal dental crown placement, except instead of putting it on a tooth you want it to go on an eyeball and fix their vision. What they mean is it just has to look the same, roughly.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

10th June 2023, 07:36 PM	#2501
Wudang BOFH Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire Posts: 15,787	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Dear User: no, we can't "just copy" an existing piece of software and change one thing so it serves a completely different purpose for a different audience. I spent two years making it customized to the highly peculiar requirements of one particular purpose and one particular audience. I realize you're a) cheap and b) very stupid but no, this is not going to happen. What you are asking is the equivalent of getting a dental crown placement, the same in every respect as a normal dental crown placement, except instead of putting it on a tooth you want it to go on an eyeball and fix their vision. Of course you can. It's just 1s and 0s, just move them around a bit. How hard can that be?
	__________________ "Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.

10th June 2023, 08:18 PM	#2502
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 67,072	Originally Posted by a_unique_person What they mean is it just has to look the same, roughly. Not in this case, the people making the request never see the software or its output themselves.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

11th June 2023, 03:30 PM	#2503
novaphile Quester of Doglets Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 5,652	Originally Posted by Wudang Of course you can. It's just 1s and 0s, just move them around a bit. How hard can that be? "You computer people are just dumb typists anyway, all you do is sit there typing all day."
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

12th June 2023, 11:36 PM	#2504
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	Something happened today that caused our EL1 to post a table-flipping gif to the Leadership Chat on Teams.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

13th June 2023, 12:21 AM	#2505
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 15,736	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Something happened today that caused our EL1 to post a table-flipping gif to the Leadership Chat on Teams. Oooo, share!
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

13th June 2023, 02:11 PM	#2506
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 67,072	Dear User: do NOT ask me for X during a meeting for which I have already supplied X. It only causes you to look foolish and me to get angry. You didn't remember you had already asked for X seven days ago, you didn't register that you had received X six days ago, and you apparently didn't notice that X was open and being viewed by twenty people, including yourself, at that very moment. In conclusion: I'm going to scoop your eyeballs out, sprinkle them with garlic salt, then stuff them into the wrong sockets. Yours in professionalism, TragicMonkey
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

13th June 2023, 06:34 PM	#2507
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Oooo, share! It's actually a bit complicated, which is why I didn't. In a nutshell, the IT system for one of our two largest departments is being reorganised, with new role groups and organisational codes. As a result, we can't process New Starter Requests (NSRs) during the transitional period as there will be two different role groups for each section in the org chart and reconciling them all after the fact would be a nightmare. So the PTB decided to restrict access to the NSR form on our portal. Basically, shut the form down. Without telling anyone first that this was what they were going to do. No table was flipped at this time. But it gets better. Since our two largest departments were, until the most recent MOG, one big superdepartment, the two are still linked in a lot of ways. Including using the same NSR form. So when we shut it down for department 1, we were also shutting it down for department 2, even though there was no corresponding reorganisation to justify it. That's when our EL1 flipped the table.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

13th June 2023, 06:55 PM	#2508
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 15,736	Originally Posted by arthwollipot It's actually a bit complicated, which is why I didn't. In a nutshell, the IT system for one of our two largest departments is being reorganised, with new role groups and organisational codes. As a result, we can't process New Starter Requests (NSRs) during the transitional period as there will be two different role groups for each section in the org chart and reconciling them all after the fact would be a nightmare. So the PTB decided to restrict access to the NSR form on our portal. Basically, shut the form down. Without telling anyone first that this was what they were going to do. No table was flipped at this time. But it gets better. Since our two largest departments were, until the most recent MOG, one big superdepartment, the two are still linked in a lot of ways. Including using the same NSR form. So when we shut it down for department 1, we were also shutting it down for department 2, even though there was no corresponding reorganisation to justify it. That's when our EL1 flipped the table. More from the Didn't-Really-Think-That-Through Department. Would love to see the gif.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

13th June 2023, 07:20 PM	#2509
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	It was this one. Teams sources gifs from giphy.com. We just had a pretty vociferous complaint from someone who wasn't able to submit a NSR form for someone who had started employment two weeks ago. Sorry buddy, that one's on you.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

13th June 2023, 11:51 PM	#2510
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 15,736	Noice!
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

14th June 2023, 12:28 AM	#2511
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 29,354	Originally Posted by arthwollipot It was this one. Teams sources gifs from giphy.com. https://media.giphy.com/media/6lScd4x2D5Oko/giphy.gif We just had a pretty vociferous complaint from someone who wasn't able to submit a NSR form for someone who had started employment two weeks ago. Sorry buddy, that one's on you. That's a good flip, one good tug, no hesitation, plenty of drama. A solid B/B+ performance.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

14th June 2023, 08:00 AM	#2512
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 67,072	"There shouldn't be a noticeable performance impact". Sweetie, darling, honey, baby, walrus: when a query that normally takes 42 seconds takes 14 minutes I'd say that's a pretty noticeable performance impact. If you need a practical demonstration to understand why 14 minutes is longer than 42 seconds try holding your breath for both lengths of time. I can assist with plastic wrap if you're having trouble performing this demonstration.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

14th June 2023, 08:06 AM	#2513
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 111,175	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey "There shouldn't be a noticeable performance impact". Sweetie, darling, honey, baby, walrus: when a query that normally takes 42 seconds takes 14 minutes I'd say that's a pretty noticeable performance impact. If you need a practical demonstration to understand why 14 minutes is longer than 42 seconds try holding your breath for both lengths of time. I can assist with plastic wrap if you're having trouble performing this demonstration. And to think some say you aren't a team player, you are always willing to help your colleagues.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

14th June 2023, 07:58 PM	#2514
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	Originally Posted by catsmate That's a good flip, one good tug, no hesitation, plenty of drama. A solid B/B+ performance. Idris Elba is very talented.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

14th June 2023, 10:50 PM	#2515
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 84,520	Um, okay, so a weird thing just happened. How can I explain this? When we were one big superdepartment, we operated under an Enterprise Agreement for that department. When we split off, we ended up with something called a Determination, which is a temporary agreement until a new agreement could be drawn up. We've been under this agreement since June of last year. Apparently in this Determination we can only post working hours of 6am to 6pm. Our Service Desk operates, and has always operated, from 7am to 7pm. This means that any work after 6pm is classified as overtime. I have worked until 6:30pm or 7pm literally every week in that time. The upshot? I may be owed a crapton of overtime. We don't quite know yet, but at this point it seems likely. My response:
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/