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Tags general discussion , holocaust , holocaust denial , World War II history

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Old Yesterday, 04:54 PM   #2721
Saggy
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Bang away.
Here we go ... this is the photo of actual Greek arrowheads from the time of the Trojan war, 1000 BC, you can, believe it or not, buy them ....



http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/...k_weapons.html

And yet, there are no pictures of 'gas chambers' from WW II, 1945 AD !

Instead we have pictures of shower rooms, 'never used as a gas chamber' ....


The holohoax is a collection of preposterous and degenerate lies.
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Old Yesterday, 05:03 PM   #2722
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Old Yesterday, 05:41 PM   #2723
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Banging away is all Saggy has left; its the fall back position for people who refuse to debate honestly, and who cannot answer the tough questions being put to them. He has made a number of claims, and has not been able to substantiate any of them.

On some other forums, such a user would be put "on moderation". Only posts that contain answers to the questions they have been refusing to answer are published to the thread; the rest would be discarded. The user would not be taken off moderation until ALL the questions have been answered. I wonder if that is possible on ISF.
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Old Yesterday, 06:00 PM   #2724
LemmyCaution
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Here we go ... this is the photo of actual Greek arrowheads from the time of the Trojan war, 1000 BC, you can, believe it or not, buy them ....

http://i.imgur.com/ZhUkJTd.jpg

http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/...k_weapons.html

And yet, there are no pictures of 'gas chambers' from WW II, 1945 AD !

Instead we have pictures of shower rooms, 'never used as a gas chamber' ....
http://i.imgur.com/FnUSTRU.jpg

The holohoax is a collection of preposterous and degenerate lies.
Because collectors can't buy this



or this



or this




?????
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Old Yesterday, 07:39 PM   #2725
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Maybe Saggy would feel better if these


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28954765/n.../#.WXlP6q2ZPq0

and these


https://www.ushmm.org/information/ex...-focus/desbois

were being sold via catalogues?
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Old Today, 12:45 AM   #2726
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We are not in the field of a rational discussion anymore but rather trying to convince a member of a cult why his beliefs are wrong.

This remind me of the thread about the shroud of Turin with Jabba or discussions with a creationist. No way you can convince him he is wrong.

The only use of this kind of discussion is to show people who could have doubts and who could read this who has valuable arguments and who has no arguments at all.
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Old Today, 01:59 AM   #2727
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
You are refusing to deal with the hoax you are alleging has taken place. What you can do is prove the liberation and survival of c101,000 Dutch Jews, c34,000 who went to Sobibor.

The hoax you are claiming is the incredible one of they lived on after liberation, whilst the Dutch Government was declaring them victims and missing presumed dead. Meanwhile, no historian or tracing agency has been able to find any evidence of the liberation, let alone survival of all of those people.

Then you have the problem of the Dutch Jews who did get to survive and return to their lives. Have they been fooled, or are they in with the hoax?
Denialists all over ignore or pretend they do not have to deal with the consequences of their claim of mass transits and survival from the AR camps and sites such as Rumbula, Ponary and Babi Yar.

Fact is, if there had been no murder, about 3 million more Jews should have survived the war. They would have reappeared, as the known survivors did, usually back in their country of origin, or they emigrated to Israel or the USA.

The population figures for those countries show that all of occupied countries had drops in the Jewish population;

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...sh-population/

but there was no corresponding rise in the populations in North America nor Israel.

Therefore according to Saggy's beliefs, about 3 million people vanished whilst in the custody of the Nazis and he can just ignore that and claim they were not murdered.

Constantly pointing that out greatly weakens denialism and it has been the reason why Eric Hunt and BRoI finally accepted that they were wrong. They did understand evidence and accepted they should be able to prove their beliefs. Saggy is just one of those who does not bother about evidence and he is probably enjoying the attention.
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Old Today, 02:03 AM   #2728
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Originally Posted by Degeneve View Post
We are not in the field of a rational discussion anymore but rather trying to convince a member of a cult why his beliefs are wrong.

This remind me of the thread about the shroud of Turin with Jabba or discussions with a creationist. No way you can convince him he is wrong.

The only use of this kind of discussion is to show people who could have doubts and who could read this who has valuable arguments and who has no arguments at all.
Indeed, getting people like Saggy to put forward their beliefs and how they evidence them (terribly, fallacy ridden, ignoring many issues they should not) proves denialism is corrupt and peddling a hoax.

Saggy is only to be used as an example of that.
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Old Today, 03:34 AM   #2729
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Originally Posted by Degeneve View Post
We are not in the field of a rational discussion anymore but rather trying to convince a member of a cult why his beliefs are wrong.

This remind me of the thread about the shroud of Turin with Jabba or discussions with a creationist. No way you can convince him he is wrong.

The only use of this kind of discussion is to show people who could have doubts and who could read this who has valuable arguments and who has no arguments at all.
IMO we have been "playing to the audience" for quite a number of pages. This has been a really good opportunity for anyone following this "debate" to see first hand just how dishonest Holocaust Deniers are when it comes to debating and supporting their claims. They want to endlessly repeat their claims without substantiating them; they attempt to switch the burden of proof away from themselves; they refuse to answer questions which, if answered, will blow their claims out of the water, and they hand-wave away any and all evidence that doesn't fit their anti-Semitic and racist world view.
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Old Today, 04:11 AM   #2730
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Saggy is a little extreme in this regard in that he won't even pretend to engage issues raised - he's afraid to say whether Dutch Jews were even deported! - and pretty systematically stonewalls questions and challenges. But many deniers, even those who bother to tart up false scenarios or move past old memes, often trade in these same tactics of evasion and tedium, even as they cover up their methods a bit better so as not to be so obvious.
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Old Today, 06:02 AM   #2731
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He is using this discussion thread as a personal blog to post his 'feelings'.
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Old Today, 06:14 AM   #2732
Saggy
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
He is using this discussion thread as a personal blog to post his 'feelings'.
I'm using the discussion thread to post the truth.

It's worth noting that posting the truth about the holohoax is illegal in most European countries, as well as Russia, Canada, and Australia. And will and does result in serious jail time. See a partial list of those jailed here ...

Thought Control in Free Societies
http://www.holohoax101.org/thoughtcontrol/

So, we're living in a Orwellian world, where stating the truth is a crime in many countries. And of course the Jews are doing everything they can to make it a crime in the US but have thusfar been thwarted in the US by the 1st Amendment, see the ADL grouse about it here,

Racists, Bigots, and the Law on the Internet
https://web.archive.org/web/20060603...rnet/print.asp

So, they are reduced to sponsoring hasbara, who wreck any internet discussion with their imbecility. See...

A Guide to Hasbara Trolls
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/jona...ra-trolls.html
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Old Today, 06:20 AM   #2733
LemmyCaution
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
I'm using the discussion thread to post the truth.
So, truth-sayer, tell us the truth about what happened to Jews in the Netherlands during WWII.

No tangents, no dodging, no BS, no off topic links, no Wiesel: a direct answer to a straight question.
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Old Today, 07:30 AM   #2734
Degeneve
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
I'm using the discussion thread to post the truth.

It's worth noting that posting the truth about the holohoax is illegal in most European countries, as well as Russia, Canada, and Australia. And will and does result in serious jail time. See a partial list of those jailed here ...

Thought Control in Free Societies
http://www.holohoax101.org/thoughtcontrol/
If I remember well there are no more than 13 or maybe 14 European countries which have memory laws allowing to jail people for holocaust denial. This is far from being "most European countries".

Furthermore many of the guys on your list have never spent one single day in jail because they denied holocaust.

Last point for your information as you clearly ignore even this basic fact: Russia is an European country...
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Old Today, 07:45 AM   #2735
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
I'm using the discussion thread to post the truth.
Oh and how do you know its the truth?
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Old Today, 08:00 AM   #2736
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Oh and how do you know its the truth?
The only way you can know that the holocaust is a hoax is by studying the matter. We've all been brainwashed since birth practically with the lies. My 9th grade daugher has visited the hoax museum in DC, heard from a survivor, and heard a presentation on Anne Frank, all part of her middle school education. That is, the hoaxers are really stepping up their game and trying to pass laws mandating hoax education in every state. Here is the teacher's manual for teaching the hoax in KINDERGARTEN ! in FL .. you can google and download it ..



So, no antidote to this level of indoctrination is possible unless a person takes an active role in learning the truth.

However, once the truth is seen, the hoax is obvious and transparent. E.g. when you see a picture of a door to a 'gas chamber' as shown by the USHMM..



you know you're seeing preposterous and degenerate lies unlike anything else in history.

For anyone wanting to investigate, see
holohoax101.org

.... and I'll post a list of references later .....
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Old Today, 08:14 AM   #2737
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
However, once the truth is seen, the hoax is obvious and transparent. E.g. when you see a picture of a door to a 'gas chamber' as shown by the USHMM..

http://i.imgur.com/D9OfJN4.jpg

you know you're seeing preposterous and degenerate lies unlike anything else in history.

For anyone wanting to investigate, see
holohoax101.org

.... and I'll post a list of references later .....
The "door to a 'gas chamber'" hoax has been debunked one thousand times. This has never been the door of the gas chamber.

But to know it one needs something you have never done, i.e. do some home work.
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Old Today, 08:30 AM   #2738
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
The only way you can know that the holocaust is a hoax is by studying the matter. We've all been brainwashed since birth practically with the lies. My 9th grade daugher has visited the hoax museum in DC, heard from a survivor, and heard a presentation on Anne Frank, all part of her middle school education. That is, the hoaxers are really stepping up their game and trying to pass laws mandating hoax education in every state. Here is the teacher's manual for teaching the hoax in KINDERGARTEN ! in FL .. you can google and download it ..
But since the Holocaust happened, it'd be irresponsible not to teach about it.

And since you're shying away from supporting your views, explaining what's mistaken in the scholarship, and answering any specific questions anyone has - in favor of posting old, old links or repeating the words "hoax," "lies," "truth" - there's no reason anyone should take your posts seriously. They're so "Low Energy . . . sad!"
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Old Today, 09:26 AM   #2739
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
I'm using the discussion thread to post the truth.

.....
Please evidence the truth by evidencing and proving the mass transportation of c34,000 Dutch Jews away from Sobibor and the survival of c101,000 Dutch Jews, the total declared as victims of the Holocaust by the Dutch Government.
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Old Today, 10:06 AM   #2740
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Saggy, do you agree that about 34,000 Jews were deported from the Natherlands to Sobibór duing 1943. If so, can you answer about the supposed
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
mass transportation of c34,000 Dutch Jews away from Sobibor?
Further, do you agree that another 70,000 or so Jews were deported from the Netherlands roughly as accounted for in this chonrology from the Bundesarchiv? If so, can you tell us, counting all the Jews deported from the Netherlands during the war, about
Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
the survival of c101,000 Dutch Jews, the total declared as victims of the Holocaust by the Dutch Government.
This should not be hard at all for someone who's studied hoaxing and is a bold truth-teller.
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Old Today, 10:18 AM   #2741
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
Saggy, do you agree that about 34,000 Jews were deported from the Natherlands to Sobibór duing 1943. If so, can you answer about the supposed Further, do you agree that another 70,000 or so Jews were deported from the Netherlands roughly as accounted for in this chonrology from the Bundesarchiv? If so, can you tell us, counting all the Jews deported from the Netherlands during the war, about
This should not be hard at all for someone who's studied hoaxing and is a bold truth-teller.
Since Saggy could pretend there are translation mistakes I also post a link to the same page in German so he can check by himself the translation is accurate: https://www.bundesarchiv.de/gedenkbu...html.de?page=4
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Old Today, 10:40 AM   #2742
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
The only way you can know that the holocaust is a hoax is by studying the matter. We've all been brainwashed since birth practically with the lies. My 9th grade daugher has visited the hoax museum in DC, heard from a survivor, and heard a presentation on Anne Frank, all part of her middle school education. That is, the hoaxers are really stepping up their game and trying to pass laws mandating hoax education in every state. Here is the teacher's manual for teaching the hoax in KINDERGARTEN ! in FL .. you can google and download it ..

http://i.imgur.com/z5P7WVa.jpg

So, no antidote to this level of indoctrination is possible unless a person takes an active role in learning the truth.

However, once the truth is seen, the hoax is obvious and transparent. E.g. when you see a picture of a door to a 'gas chamber' as shown by the USHMM..

http://i.imgur.com/D9OfJN4.jpg

you know you're seeing preposterous and degenerate lies unlike anything else in history.

For anyone wanting to investigate, see
holohoax101.org

.... and I'll post a list of references later .....
You, of course, informed you daughter that it was all a hoax before her trip to the Holohoax museum?
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Old Today, 12:01 PM   #2743
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
You, of course, informed you daughter that it was all a hoax before her trip to the Holohoax museum?
Of course he did.

With my daughters, I ask them "What do you think? And why?"

Our proponent seems to be on a diametric trajectory.
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Old Today, 12:13 PM   #2744
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
The only way you can know that the holocaust is a hoax is by studying the matter.
How can you do that if you scream that you won't read their degenerate lies?

How do you know they are degenerative? You seem rather confused and contradictory.

Do you mean you read what others want you to believe instead of researching the actual history?
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Old Today, 10:16 PM   #2745
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
How can you do that if you scream that you won't read their degenerate lies?

How do you know they are degenerative? You seem rather confused and contradictory.

Do you mean you read what others want you to believe instead of researching the actual history?

Saggy has failed to heed the lessons of Sun Tsu, Chapter 3

"What is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy. It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperilled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperilled in every single battle"

How can you attack the validity of the Holocaust if you refuse to read anything about it other than from hoax site. You end up living in an echo chamber!
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