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3rd June 2017, 06:57 AM | #81 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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3rd June 2017, 07:14 AM | #82 |
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3rd June 2017, 07:26 AM | #83 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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3rd June 2017, 07:36 AM | #84 |
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We've got a whole thread about it. "Paul Bethke vs the 613 Mitzvot." I've even got a spreadsheet tracking them. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...t5bCPbxVzBMqNE Claiming you don't reject a large swath of the laws isn't just a lie on your part, it's a demonstrable lie for which we have evidence and ongoing discussion. |
3rd June 2017, 07:40 AM | #85 |
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3rd June 2017, 09:41 AM | #86 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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3rd June 2017, 09:43 AM | #87 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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4th June 2017, 04:07 AM | #88 |
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This shows how little you understand—there is no law that I do not teach, every law has an application ---but some laws have been replaced with a superior practice, far exceeding the original law, but not nullifying the original.
It can be compared with people who live in tents and the hassle of braking down the tent and moving on to a place where there will be a house a fixed abode---one is better than the other. Heb_9:26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Heb_10:5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; Heb_10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Heb_10:12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Heb_10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. So with the Torah, the sacrifice for sin and the Temple function has been replaced—the Temple is no longer there so the death of Jesus as an atoning sacrifice has replaced the Temple service. The many external functions have been replaced by an internal function. Heb 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. Heb 8:11 No longer will a man teach his neighbour, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. Heb 8:12 For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." Heb 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. You need to read the letter to the Hebrews to understand the new is superior to the old—but no one will understand the new unless they understand the OLD. |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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4th June 2017, 04:19 AM | #89 |
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And yet you keep refusing to actually go over those laws. Not much of a teacher, are you? The thread dedicated to exploring this topic has been inhibited by your flat out refusal to answer questions so there are still a LOT of unknowns, but here is a quick summary of what we know so far: 538 To be Determined 1 Unknown 0 N/A 13 Follows 32 Does not Follow 0 Does not Apply to Christians 2 Did not Answer 25 Does not apply to private citizens 0 Compliance implied but not explicitly stated 2 Do as I say, Don't do as I do I'll omit the laws we know you don't follow because they they're directed at the operation of a government and not at private individuals. laws you've been asked about but refused to answer Gen. 1:28 — To have children with one's wife Laws you say should be followed but refuse to answer if YOU follow them. Ex. 20:15 — Not to covet and scheme to acquire another's possession — Yemenite->Ex. 20:14 Ex. 21:10 — Not to withhold food, clothing, and sexual relations from your wife Laws we know you reject: Gen. 32:32 — Not to eat the sinew of the thigh 4Ex. 12:6 — To slaughter the paschal sacrifice at the specified time 5Ex. 12:8 — To eat the Paschal Lamb with matzah and Marror on the night of the fourteenth of Nisan 6Ex. 12:9 — Not to eat the paschal meat raw or boiled 7Ex. 12:10 — Not to leave any meat from the paschal offering over until morning 8Ex. 12:15 — To destroy all chametz on 14th day of Nisan 9Ex. 12:18 — To eat matzah on the first night of Passover 10Ex. 12:19 — Not to find chametz in your domain seven days 11Ex. 12:20 — Not to eat mixtures containing chametz all seven days of Passover 12Ex. 12:43 — An apostate must not eat from it 13Ex. 12:45 — A permanent or temporary hired worker must not eat from it 14Ex. 12:46 — Not to take the paschal meat from the confines of the group 15Ex. 12:46 — Not to break any bones from the paschal offering —> Ps. 34:20 16Ex. 12:48 — An uncircumcised Kohen (priest) must not eat Terumah (heave offering) 17Ex. 12:48 — An uncircumcised male must not eat from it 18Ex. 13:3 — Not to eat chametz all seven days of Passover 19Ex. 13:7 — Not to see chametz in your domain seven days 20Ex. 13:8 — To relate the Exodus from Egypt on that night 21Ex. 13:12 — To set aside the firstborn animals 22Ex. 13:13 — To redeem the firstborn donkey by giving a lamb to a Kohen 23Ex. 13:13 — To break the neck of the donkey if the owner does not intend to redeem it 24Ex. 16:29 — Not to walk outside the city boundary on Shabbat Ex. 20:7 — Not to take God's Name in vain — Yemenite->Ex. 20:6 Ex. 20:9 — To sanctify the day with Kiddush and Havdalah — Yemenite->Ex. 20:8 Ex. 20:11 — Not to do prohibited labor on the seventh day — Yemenite->Ex. 20:10 Ex. 20:13 — Not to murder — Yemenite->Ex. 20:12 Lev. 12:3 — To circumcise all males on the eighth day after their birth Num. 15:38 — To have tzitzit on four-cornered garments Deut. 6:8 — To wear tefillin (phylacteries) on the head Deut. 6:8 — To bind tefillin on the arm Deut. 6:9 — To put a mezuzah on each door post |
4th June 2017, 11:51 PM | #90 |
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You still do not understand, that the NEW replaces the OLD—but without the OLD the NEW cannot be understood.
The Temple was the central place of worship, but now the Temple is gone and a NEW temple is in its place---Matthew_12:6 I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. And John 2:20 The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" John 2:21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. Joh 4:23 [b] Yet a time is coming and has now come[/b\ when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. AND 1Co_6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; Now the place where Yahweh choose to manifest his presence was in the Temple, now that is passed and a greater order is in place, in that the believer becomes the temple of God. So now believers do not have to travel to Jerusalem in order to experience the Presence of Yahweh, but they themselves are the temple where the Shakina glory of God is manifest. But I know it is unfair of me to present you with these facts, because they are beyond your capability to understand such deep truths at this stage. So yes your list determines that the procedure that a Jew must take in order to be in a state to approach the Creator, is complicated—the teachings of Jesus leads us to understand that there is a better way, based on the OLD way. So now I have TWO witnesses---the Torah and the Presence of Yahweh. But is this not the END time thread and not the 613???? |
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5th June 2017, 04:43 AM | #91 |
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Make up your mind. A while back you claimed there was no difference in the covenant between the old and new testaments. Why do you bother trying to preach anything when you can't be bothered to at least have some semblance of consistency? It's like trying to discuss policy with Donald Trump. Different day completely different claims. At this rate it's only a matter of time before you flip-flop on race relations and claim to be, and always have been, a major proponent of desegregation and interracial marriage. |
5th June 2017, 05:07 AM | #92 |
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Then why do you need to keep ANY of the OT laws? If the new covenant has replaced the old, then none of the old, including the 10 Commandments remains. Essentially you're down to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
However, JC stated that he was not here to change one bit of the law, meaning that it all remains valid, and your cafeteria style Christianity is as flawed as any of the other sects.
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You have not demonstrated any skill or ability that would allow anyone to conclude that you have any facility or gift for parsing truth, interpreting text, or ability to teach. Concluding that other people who have demonstrated such abilities are too ignorant to learn is funny. Tell me, did you try this approach in school?
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In order to be compliant with JC you should therefore be compliant with the same laws for religious observation as Jews.
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If I wish to question the Presence of Yahweh, how will it answer? |
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5th June 2017, 05:28 AM | #93 |
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The Torah cannot be your witness. You just stated that it has been replaced. Jesus disagrees with you on that point, however. Furthermore, we know that the Torah is flat out wrong in many of it's claims and says nothing at all about the 21st or later centuries.
The Presence of Yahweh cannot be your witness because it is not capable of doing so any more than the presence of my dishwasher is capable of washing dishes. Do you really think that my dishes get cleaned simply by dint of the Presence of the Holy Dishwasher in my kitchen? In other words, you have no witnesses. |
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5th June 2017, 09:10 AM | #94 |
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The END time will be the Torah as the judge for all conduct—so every person and government will be judged by the Torah, so the Torah as Jesus stated will never pass away as it is the means to the END.
I have a witness, that you know not—that witness is an assurance that what I understand from the Tanakh is correct. In time to come I will demonstrate this. Jesus stated that the apostles will become witnesses---so the Prophets and the Apostles testify concerning what Jesus proclaimed—they are his witnesses, and I accept their testimony as fact. |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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5th June 2017, 09:13 AM | #95 |
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You can't be your own witness. And it's obvious you don't understand your own scriptures, so stop trying to insist you do.
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5th June 2017, 09:15 AM | #96 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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5th June 2017, 09:26 AM | #97 | |||
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There are three explanations for that line:
1. You lied in the past about having followers. 2. You are lying NOW about having a follower. 3. You have finally, at long last, acquired a follower. Which is it? My theory is #2.
It's been over a decade already. That song and dance has been a joke for quite a while now. |
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5th June 2017, 10:06 AM | #98 |
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5th June 2017, 11:08 AM | #99 |
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6th June 2017, 03:28 AM | #100 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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6th June 2017, 03:48 AM | #101 |
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And you were wrong, returning like a dog to your vomit, but in the interests of education we persist in trying to teach you that: A. Inanimate objects cannot be witnesses to anything; B. Words have commonly accepted meanings and you don't get to change them to suit your preference; C. You cannot use the Bible to prove the Bible; and D. Gas lighting is not an effective method of argumentation and persuasion. |
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6th June 2017, 06:50 AM | #102 |
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6th June 2017, 07:18 AM | #103 |
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This is a meaningless dodge. You whip out this band-aid statement every time you're shown in error. There is no magical body of knowledge and understanding that only you possess. Even third-graders have enough mentality to question this amatuerish level of gaslighting.
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6th June 2017, 08:33 AM | #104 |
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Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near. |
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6th June 2017, 08:38 AM | #105 |
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No the Bible is a dead book--what makes it come alive is the understanding of the prophetic word---John_3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
John_6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. So you cannot understand the words because they are made alive by the Spirit. So maybe it is futile trying to communicate with you, as you will not understand the Spirit of the Torah. So the Ten Commands will be used to make clear the reason for the judgement of the Creator coming on his creation. |
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6th June 2017, 08:51 AM | #106 |
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6th June 2017, 09:22 AM | #107 |
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6th June 2017, 09:36 AM | #108 |
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6th June 2017, 10:17 AM | #109 |
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Do not gaslight me, Bethke. The evidence shows you do not have a competent knowledge of scripture. Hence, you have invented this "prophetic meaning" as nothing more than knowledge you allegedly possess and which your critics allegedly cannot. In logic this is "special pleading," and it is not a valid argument.
To the point at hand, the scriptures say you require two other human witnesses. You have said the Torah is your witness. The Torah is not human; it cannot be a witness under the pertinent scripture. You have said Yahweh is your witness. Yahweh is not human; it cannot be a witness under the pertinent scripture. You have said your infallible interpretation of scripture serves as your witness. That is a concept, not a human. Even in the most charitable interpretation of that vague nonsense, the only human involved in that is you, and you cannot serve as your own witness. So name your witnesses or concede that you don't have any. |
6th June 2017, 10:21 AM | #110 |
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6th June 2017, 10:37 AM | #111 |
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6th June 2017, 10:47 AM | #112 |
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Take a drink every time Paul Bethke:
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6th June 2017, 10:50 AM | #113 |
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6th June 2017, 10:54 AM | #114 |
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6th June 2017, 11:36 AM | #115 |
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6th June 2017, 12:00 PM | #116 |
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6th June 2017, 12:08 PM | #117 |
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PB must by default chuck out 603 other commands, and if he is reaching for the jebus two, he must chuck out the ten as well.
Not to mention that the jebus two long predate the bible. Not to mention the variety of the ten. Not to mention that the whole 613 still apply according to jebus. Not to mention that PB does not follow them anyway as he has told us in this very thread. |
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6th June 2017, 12:10 PM | #118 |
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6th June 2017, 12:12 PM | #119 |
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6th June 2017, 01:52 PM | #120 |
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This proves you do not understand prophecy(!) about Abraham (who was a virgin after having sex with Sarah and Hagar) committing adultery with Eve (who is the whore of Babylon) in Sodom and Gomorrah during the Flood of Noah (who was a virgin after fathering three sons) before they went to Egypt and slaughtered everyone with swords (in a non-violent sort of way) so Jesus could ride on
But, since we do not have "perfect, infallible knowledge" like PB has, we cannot understand this! |
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