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Old 27th March 2020, 12:07 PM   #121
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Cruises are a luxury good. Nobody needs one. A business like that would be the first to get hurt in any economic downturn, let alone what we're going through now. What was your thinking about buying into them, as opposed to retail or just index funds?
I have a "diversified" portfolio, with the biggest portion in mutual funds, but I do pick individual stocks. A few years ago, I did think the stock market was undervalued, and I took a lot of money out of cash and dumped it into stocks. This, it turned out, was a very good move, until last month.

Overall I still ended up ahead because I sold a fair amount near the peak.

Cruise lines in particular seemed to look attractive because Carnival, specifically, seemed to be in a position to attact a lot of customers who just made a bundle in the stock market. And, they paid good dividends, and were not grossly overvalued based on earnings.

Not that I'm an expert at any of this. I spend fifteen minutes and say, "That looks cool." Carnival did me fine for a little while, but this event was something that blindsided everyone. As I've said before, if they manage to avoid bankruptcy, with or without a bailout, I think they are cheap right now, but it's a bit risky for my taste at the moment.
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Old 27th March 2020, 07:55 PM   #122
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So, they did the stimulus and the major cruise companies aren't getting anything.

Cruise lines, early source of coronavirus infections, out of bailout package

Quote:
Language in the 883-page bill passed by the Senate says that to be eligible for aid from the $500 billion fund companies must be certified as “created or organized in the United States or under the laws of the United States" as well as having “significant operations in” and a majority of employees based in the United States.

Major cruise companies have located their primary headquarters overseas, which for years has allowed them to pay almost no federal taxes and avoid some U.S. regulations. To staff their ships, the companies rely heavily on foreign workers from the Philippines, Indonesia and India.

The industry’s trade group, the Cruise Lines International Association, acknowledged Thursday that the major cruise lines weren’t included in the package, despite providing a plan to policymakers, meeting with Vice President Pence, and a phone call from Micky Arison, chairman of the Carnival Corp., to President Trump.
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Old 27th March 2020, 08:04 PM   #123
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Harumph. Don’t you hate those moralistic senators.
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Old 1st April 2020, 09:56 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Yeah this. It's like limited liability companies

"We deserve all the profits because we take the risks!"
"So if the company fails you'll personally pay off the creditors?"
"Hell No! LLC baby!"
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Old 1st April 2020, 10:03 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
He made that clear, non USA companies.

I do have to agree with that approach, seems rather sensible, would you expect Australian tax payers to bail out say BMW or Boeing?

Yes support your people who work for such companies but not the company itself.
My neighbour works at BMW's Cowley Mini plant. He'd certainly appreciate it (and if you guys did it on the strength of me asking he might buy me a pint. We'd make it Fosters to pay something back).
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Old 1st April 2020, 10:04 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Will Americans who have not filed a tax return for a few years due to being unemployed by choice, or working under-the-table, be eligible to collect their $1200?

If not, why should a corp that has not paid for several years be any different?
So you're suggesting that corporations only get $1200 each? Fair 'nuff.
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Old 1st April 2020, 10:08 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
My wife has taken a few cruises and she said that the people that work on the cruise ships all have little flags on their clothes that show what country they represent. The only ones that have an American flag are the department heads.

That's completely anecdotal so take it on face value.

There's also a lot more Americans in the entertainment positions, musicians and the like. But yeah, bartenders, waiters, cabin attendants, kitchen staff, security and other such jobs are all pretty much completely non-American, and largely non-Western. My last cruise there were a lot of Eastern European bartenders, for some reason. I think the mix depends a lot on where in the world you are cruising.
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Old 1st April 2020, 10:09 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
So you're suggesting that corporations only get $1200 each? Fair 'nuff.
Unless they make over 75,000....
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Old 1st April 2020, 10:11 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Yeah but the latter makes cooler products.
Buy! Buy! Buy!
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Old 1st April 2020, 10:21 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
There's also a lot more Americans in the entertainment positions, musicians and the like. But yeah, bartenders, waiters, cabin attendants, kitchen staff, security and other such jobs are all pretty much completely non-American, and largely non-Western. My last cruise there were a lot of Eastern European bartenders, for some reason. I think the mix depends a lot on where in the world you are cruising.
I assumed those were independent contractors that weren't really part of the cruise industry.
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Old 1st April 2020, 10:45 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
There's also a lot more Americans in the entertainment positions, musicians and the like. But yeah, bartenders, waiters, cabin attendants, kitchen staff, security and other such jobs are all pretty much completely non-American, and largely non-Western. My last cruise there were a lot of Eastern European bartenders, for some reason. I think the mix depends a lot on where in the world you are cruising.
I wonder if the benefit of not having to follow US labor law or other business regulation is more of a benefit than getting out of taxes.

Without these things the cruise industry wouldn't be able to undersell other US based vacation spots.

I'm not sure there is a worse candidate for a US bailout than that industry.
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Old 1st April 2020, 12:04 PM   #132
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Coast Guard is turning away cruise ships with sick and dead passengers says they should seek help from where they are flagged.

https://abc11.com/cruise-ship-coast-...virus/6068074/

" The U.S. Coast Guard has directed all cruise ships to remain at sea where they may be sequestered "indefinitely" during the coronavirus pandemic and be prepared to send any severely ill passengers to the countries where the vessels are registered.

For most of South Florida's cruise ships, that means the Bahamas, where people are still recovering from last year's hurricanes.

...

Carnival notified the SEC Tuesday that it has more than 6,000 passengers still at sea."
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Old 1st April 2020, 01:10 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Coast Guard is turning away cruise ships with sick and dead passengers says they should seek help from where they are flagged.

https://abc11.com/cruise-ship-coast-...virus/6068074/

" The U.S. Coast Guard has directed all cruise ships to remain at sea where they may be sequestered "indefinitely" during the coronavirus pandemic and be prepared to send any severely ill passengers to the countries where the vessels are registered.

For most of South Florida's cruise ships, that means the Bahamas, where people are still recovering from last year's hurricanes.

...

Carnival notified the SEC Tuesday that it has more than 6,000 passengers still at sea."
Why the **** are they still running ships?
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Old 1st April 2020, 01:14 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Why the **** are they still running ships?
At least some where supposed to finish a week and a half ago, but no one would accept the passengers. And then the are the crews who live on them they didn't exactly get suddenly somewhere else to be.
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Old 1st April 2020, 01:17 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
At least some where supposed to finish a week and a half ago, but no one would accept the passengers. And then the are the crews who live on them they didn't exactly get suddenly somewhere else to be.
Sounds like, for an industry that exists on a floating petri dish, they need to get their **** together when this pops up. This is all on the cruise industry.
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Old 4th April 2020, 03:20 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Don’t bail out the cruise industry

They chose to strategically incorporate in tax havens to avoid paying taxes on their profits in the US. Therefore, the US taxpayer should not be bailing out these non-taxpayers.

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Old 5th April 2020, 05:10 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Coast Guard is turning away cruise ships with sick and dead passengers says they should seek help from where they are flagged.

https://abc11.com/cruise-ship-coast-...virus/6068074/

" The U.S. Coast Guard has directed all cruise ships to remain at sea where they may be sequestered "indefinitely" during the coronavirus pandemic and be prepared to send any severely ill passengers to the countries where the vessels are registered.

For most of South Florida's cruise ships, that means the Bahamas, where people are still recovering from last year's hurricanes.

...

Carnival notified the SEC Tuesday that it has more than 6,000 passengers still at sea."
BTW, this is sloppy.Properly handled, the US should be able to deal with this far better than any third world or small island. And this is a worldwide pandemic - we need to throw our weight in.

Of course, the Dolt 45 admin has screwed this up royally, but that's another issue.
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