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Tags donald trump , Trump controversies

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Old 20th March 2019, 11:47 AM   #401
ChrisBFRPKY
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You just said, in the post I quoted right there, that you didn't say he didn't lie. I'm asking you what in the blue **** does that have to do with the fact that Trump is a bigger liar than Obama?

Stop taking the piss.
They both lie. I have admitted that. It's just that Obama's lies were they only lies that took money directly from my pocket due to increased healthcare premiums.

So far Trump's lies haven't cost me a cent.

Chris B.
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Old 20th March 2019, 11:49 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
They both lie.
And BAM! You're right back to false equivalence. You just can't bring yourself to say it.

NO ONE IS DISPUTING that all humans lie. Do you understand that? That is NOT the discussion. The discussion is whether Trump, himself, is a colossal liar. Forget Obama or your mother-in-law. They're not part of the discussion. Trump is a YUGE liar. That is the claim.

Do you agree that Trump lies MORE than most, YES or NO?
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Old 20th March 2019, 11:54 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
They both lie. I have admitted that. It's just that Obama's lies were they only lies that took money directly from my pocket due to increased healthcare premiums.

So far Trump's lies haven't cost me a cent.

Chris B.
That is like saying a kid who steals a candy bar and a robber who steals millions and kills people in a bank heist are the same.
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:03 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
And BAM! You're right back to false equivalence. You just can't bring yourself to say it.

NO ONE IS DISPUTING that all humans lie. Do you understand that? That is NOT the discussion. The discussion is whether Trump, himself, is a colossal liar. Forget Obama or your mother-in-law. They're not part of the discussion. Trump is a YUGE liar. That is the claim.

Do you agree that Trump lies MORE than most, YES or NO?
I don't think Trump lies any more than any other successful businessman. I'm not sure how we can compare them.

Chris B.
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:04 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
That is like saying a kid who steals a candy bar and a robber who steals millions and kills people in a bank heist are the same.
That's quite a bit of difference, but we can agree that both steal.

Chris B.
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:11 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I don't think Trump lies any more than any other successful businessman.
Then you're deluded.

How often does Trump tell the truth? Do you even know of anyone who has that low of a truth rating?
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:24 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Funny story about that: As of the last time I checked those numbers, Obamaís ďkeep your doctorĒ statement had been false due to the ACA for less than 3% of Americans. He was not completely correct, but mostly correct.

I can try to find the thread where we went through the numbers, if youíre interested. Itís kind of informative just to see the difference in some forum membersí tolerance for presidential lies between then and now.
Then there is the fact that the Trumpers and the GOP keep repeating a single supposed lie of Obama's. That is the equivalence of lying multiple times a day, every single day.

And it wasn't a "lie". It was Obama's failure to anticipate the insurers themselves would choose to drop their less than competitive plans.
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:34 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
They both lie. I have admitted that. It's just that Obama's lies were they only lies that took money directly from my pocket due to increased healthcare premiums.
So you being stuck by the user-pays situation created by someone else (that is the basis of GOP policy, incidentally) and suddenly it's personal animus and a slightly thinner wallet which turns Obama into a bad guy. Got it.

Quote:
So far Trump's lies haven't cost me a cent.

Chris B.
They have cost you your integrity, reliability, alliances and country. Trump and his krewe and his wall and his tariffs are paid for by your taxes. YOUR taxes. You do pay. This costs you. A lot more than your slightly increased medical premiums.

By the way, if you want your medical premiums to cost less, there is a way...the single-payer model. But hey. Your "side" is trying desperately to NOT have that. So they are costing you more anyway. A vote for Obama or Hillary could have changed that...
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:36 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Then there is the fact that the Trumpers and the GOP keep repeating a single supposed lie of Obama's. That is the equivalence of lying multiple times a day, every single day.

Never underestimate the power of an out of context quote turned into a soundbite and hammered on over and over and over.
"You didn't build that."
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:58 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
So far Trump's lies haven't cost me a cent.
Lucky you. I've not been as lucky.
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:23 PM   #411
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Trump put the country one trillion in debt - which is also your debt, Chris.
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:42 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
They both lie. I have admitted that. It's just that Obama's lies were they only lies that took money directly from my pocket due to increased healthcare premiums.

So far Trump's lies haven't cost me a cent.

Chris B.
Trump said he was going to create a healthcare plan that would cost less but give better coverage. Do you have that? If not, his lies have cost you.

And let's not get into the ... seriously uninformed idea that healthcare premiums only rose because of Obama or the ACA, as though they had not been increasing by double digit percentages every year before Obama.
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:49 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I don't think Trump lies any more than any other successful businessman. I'm not sure how we can compare them.

Chris B.
I agree.
"Businessmen" are disgusting.
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:55 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I remember the thread. I was one of the bellyachers as my premiums went up and choice of Doctors went down. I was able to finally use my overpriced health coverage though for a heart attack and bypass surgery so Ha! Oh my, winning can be ironic.
If your coverage later paid for cardiac bypass surgery, then maybe it wasn't overpriced.

If you're under 65 and don't have a full-time job with benefits, be aware that Republicans have been trying to strip away your ability to obtain insurance at all, what with your pre-existing condition.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Further, I've yet to meet one person, one, whose healthcare costs decreased. How about you? Did your healthcare costs increase or decrease?
Did you meet anyone whose health-care costs decreased before Obamacare?

My premium went up after I obtained insurance through the marketplace, but only because it had been underpriced for the 2 years that the feds insured me directly ($300/month for a woman in her 50s, previously uninsurable.)

ETA: And I'd say Obama's lie was immaterial to the actual passage of the act, since it occurred years later. So I don't know how you figure the lie cost you anything.

Last edited by Minoosh; 20th March 2019 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 20th March 2019, 01:58 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
They both lie. I have admitted that. It's just that Obama's lies were they only lies that took money directly from my pocket due to increased healthcare premiums.
.....
Compared to what? What did you have before the ACA? Could your insurer cancel your policy if you filed expensive claims? Without the ACA, what would your premiums be today? I suspect that the picture is more complicated than you are willing to admit. (And, after your cardiac surgery, you would likely now have no insurance from anybody because insurers could cancel your policy for having a pre-existing condition.)

Last edited by Bob001; 20th March 2019 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 20th March 2019, 02:10 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I don't think Trump lies any more than any other successful businessman. I'm not sure how we can compare them.

Chris B.
Trump is not a "successful businessman." He's a grifter and a pathological liar. He lies about things both big and small, including what a success he is, but worse, he uses lies for personal gain and as weapons in personal attacks. And even worse, it's impossible to tell where the lies end and the delusions of grandeur, infallibility, and paranoia begin. I sincerely hope you're wasting your time trying to normalize that as "modern presidential."
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Old 20th March 2019, 04:02 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Everybody lies. However, it seems youíre suggesting an equivalency between Trump and Obama.

ETA: Looks like others have trod the path already.
Anyone still bringing up the Trump apology that all POTUSes lie and they are all narcissists surely has heard over and over why that is a false equivalence. It's like they wake up in the morning and voila, groundhog day, it's all erased and they start over with a spotless mind.

Never do they present any reasoning why Trump's narcissism and lying is equivalent. Nope, they simply repeat the assertion about other legislators and POTUSes as if no one has ever pointed out to them about the false equivalence.
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Old 20th March 2019, 04:25 PM   #418
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After this I'm done with this conversation.

[quote=ChrisBFRPKY;12639560]Not many seem interested in discussion in this thread. From the evidence presented by various posts, it would seem rude comments and closed minded extremism make up most of the opinions.
[quote=ChrisBFRPKY]Setting aside that you could well lose a contest on tallying up that behavior and comparing, why on earth does it bother you? You don't care about POTUS's rudeness or lying or pandering or alternate facts or insulting war heroes or all the other behavior. And yet closed minded extremism gets your goat?

Since we are apparently to judge by apparent results instead of behavior and since the results of the closed minded extremism are that the closed minded extremists are in power here you should be applauding it.


Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY
You haven't been following the thread. I'm not tasked with explaining away lies from either side. I did point out that both sides are guilty and neither can claim high moral ground over the other.
And that's the equivocation which you continue to do in this thread to cover yourself. "They both steal." In this you are simply wrong. In regard to lies, Trump has the lowest of moral grounds, your "all businessmen lie" silliness notwithstanding.


Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY
Violence is to be condemned on any side.
Illustrating my point. That's not where you started; it's where you ended up and only after what was blindingly obvious even to you was pointed out as being blindingly obvious so that you couldn't avoid it any more.


Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY
Wrong,you'll need to go back and reread.
Not wrong. I read it.


Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY
Error of fact? What error of fact would you like me to admit to?
That part of my post was aimed at Trumpists in general, not you in particular, which if you had applied the context you insist upon would be clear. But it applies to you any way though you try to be more clever in your factual denials. The lying equivalency is one.


Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY
Added info: The reason there has been so much effort put into derailing this thread is because I've already shown Trump's comments were taken out of context from the Breitbart piece.
No. You have attempted to redefine the meaning by very sneakily constricting the context. The context is Trump's behavior and comments over the course of his campaign and Presidency. Even without that, the interpretation of most in this thread is easily as plausible as yours; with it, your interpretation falls flat.


Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
They both lie. I have admitted that. It's just that Obama's lies were they only lies that took money directly from my pocket due to increased healthcare premiums.

So far Trump's lies haven't cost me a cent.

Chris B.
And you have joined Trump on the moral low ground because this is exactly the framework of everything he does. If it profits him financially, politically, socially, or otherwise, it is good, to hell with anyone else.

Like I have said on other forums: I am a Republican. I have always been registered Republican. I will never vote Republican again until they demonstrate values far beyond this behavior.
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Old 20th March 2019, 10:26 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
They both lie. I have admitted that. It's just that Obama's lies were they only lies that took money directly from my pocket due to increased healthcare premiums.

So far Trump's lies haven't cost me a cent.

Chris B.
And that's what matters, right? He didn't COST YOU ANYTHING. Despite the numerous other people that his lies have brought harm to. As long as it didn't effect you, it's all fine.

May I suggest you preserve this (your) post for posterity. When you run for "poster boy of the amoral GOP" it'd be worth a whole lot of votes. I'd suggest you don't submit it as part of your dissertation for a degree in economics, though.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I don't think Trump lies any more than any other successful businessman. I'm not sure how we can compare them.

Chris B.
You'd have to prove that if anyone cared. He's not a businessman. He's the President of the United States of America. And he's a pathological liar, a bully, a white supremacist, a misogynist, a tax cheat, a philanderer, and is enriching himself with taxpayer money, laundered through his property holdings.

And for each of those items, you or Judge Pirro or Hannity or The Big Dog or Ziggurat will come up with "a lie" or "an example of bullying" or "a sex offender".... as a counter-example for attempted equivalency purposes. But in Trump you have the whole package. He's all of them. And y'all line up behind him in dutiful support because you're such fine upstanding citizens.
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Old 20th March 2019, 10:53 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
True. Kim has the military and police supporting him.

Uh-oh.
it is a parody account
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 20th March 2019, 10:58 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Trump is not a "successful businessman." He's a grifter and a pathological liar. He lies about things both big and small, including what a success he is, but worse, he uses lies for personal gain and as weapons in personal attacks. And even worse, it's impossible to tell where the lies end and the delusions of grandeur, infallibility, and paranoia begin. I sincerely hope you're wasting your time trying to normalize that as "modern presidential."
Since Trump has absolute zero credibility in the business world of the USA and is a multiple bankrupt, he has no history of success to fall back on. Trump is a desperately loud attempt at smoke and mirrors. With no smoke. And no mirrors.
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Old Yesterday, 06:56 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Is it your opinion that only Republicans lie? Or only Republicans are violent? Attack people etc?
My opinion is irrelevant.

Itís a fact that Trumpís off-the-charts dishonesty and blatant condonement of violence is tolerated and sometimes even celebrated by Republicans.
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Old Yesterday, 07:10 AM   #423
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Since all politicians lie, let's give them an allowance of 25 lies/year.
Above that, it ought to cost ya.
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Old Yesterday, 07:12 AM   #424
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Since all politicians lie, let's give them an allowance of 25 lies/year.
Above that, it ought to cost ya.
You're going to ruin Trump!
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Old Yesterday, 11:47 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I don't think Trump lies any more than any other successful businessman. I'm not sure how we can compare them.

Chris B.
Just reiterating as noted above, Trump isn't just not a successful businessman, he's crook who was given a golden egg by daddy and has barely managed to hold onto it.

Secondly, I've dealt with very senior businessmen & women my whole life, and while a few are pathological liars also, the enormous majority of them are scrupulously honest, because they have other people auditing them, and checks in place. Completely unlike the orange toad.
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Old Today, 12:01 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
And that's what matters, right? He didn't COST YOU ANYTHING. Despite the numerous other people that his lies have brought harm to. As long as it didn't effect you, it's all fine.

May I suggest you preserve this (your) post for posterity. When you run for "poster boy of the amoral GOP" it'd be worth a whole lot of votes. I'd suggest you don't submit it as part of your dissertation for a degree in economics, though.



You'd have to prove that if anyone cared. He's not a businessman. He's the President of the United States of America. And he's a pathological liar, a bully, a white supremacist, a misogynist, a tax cheat, a philanderer, and is enriching himself with taxpayer money, laundered through his property holdings.

And for each of those items, you or Judge Pirro or Hannity or The Big Dog or Ziggurat will come up with "a lie" or "an example of bullying" or "a sex offender".... as a counter-example for attempted equivalency purposes. But in Trump you have the whole package. He's all of them. And y'all line up behind him in dutiful support because you're such fine upstanding citizens.
Well said!!
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