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Old 3rd November 2016, 05:18 AM   #241
Border Reiver
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Paul appears to have put a face to the rape victim, and he can't bring himself to accept that the Bible says she should become her rapist's wife.
If your analysis is correct, then it would be a recent event. I've brought this very point up in the earlier thread and Paul's response was no where near as humane.

If this is indeed what has happened, then my sympathies go out to the victim, and I sincerely hope she can find the support that she needs.
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Old 3rd November 2016, 06:06 AM   #242
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I suppose an interpretation already so utterly devoid of any understanding and merit that it could not possibly fail any more than it already does is kind of infallible... from a certain point of view.
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Old 3rd November 2016, 06:15 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
I suppose an interpretation already so utterly devoid of any understanding and merit that it could not possibly fail any more than it already does is kind of infallible... from a certain point of view.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

Quote:
Not even wrong
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Not even wrong (disambiguation).
The phrase "not even wrong" describes any argument that purports to be scientific but fails at some fundamental level, usually in that it contains a terminal logical fallacy or it cannot be falsified by experiment (i.e., tested with the possibility of being rejected), or cannot be used to make predictions about the natural world.

The phrase is generally attributed to theoretical physicist Wolfgang Pauli, who was known for his colorful objections to incorrect or sloppy thinking.[1][2] Rudolf Peierls documents an instance in which "a friend showed Pauli the paper of a young physicist which he suspected was not of great value but on which he wanted Pauli's views. Pauli remarked sadly, 'It is not even wrong'."[3] This is also often quoted as "That is not only not right, it is not even wrong," or "Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!" in Pauli's native German. Peierls remarks that quite a few apocryphal stories of this kind have been circulated and mentions that he listed only the ones personally vouched for by him. He also quotes another example when Pauli replied to Lev Landau, "What you said was so confused that one could not tell whether it was nonsense or not."[3]

The phrase is often used to describe pseudoscience or bad science and is considered derogatory.[4]
I think the phrase "What you said was so confused that one could not tell whether it was nonsense or not," applies nicely to Paul's argument that the word "discovered" implies there was consent.
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Old 3rd November 2016, 08:51 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I think the phrase "What you said was so confused that one could not tell whether it was nonsense or not," applies nicely to Paul's argument that the word "discovered" implies there was consent.
I've been thinking about that, and I think I know where the nonsense comes from. Recently the word "discovered" has frequently been applied in two particular contexts:

- finding things that have never been seen before, or were previously unknown; as in the discovery of a new sub atomic particle at CERN
- finding things that have been intentionally concealed, as in the discovery by Allied cryptanalysis of the secret keys for the Enigma cipher machine during WW2.

Now Paul seems to think that by referring to the "discovery" of a sexual liaison, it must be being implied that this activity was intentionally concealed - by the joint agreement of both participants - so it must therefore have been consensual.

Even if this argument was valid - and it is utterly ludicrous - Deuteronomy was not composed in English, and therefore conclusions that might or might not be drawn from an English word, used in translation of the original term, are of no moment whatever.
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Old 3rd November 2016, 09:15 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
I've been thinking about that, and I think I know where the nonsense comes from. Recently the word "discovered" has frequently been applied in two particular contexts:

- finding things that have never been seen before, or were previously unknown; as in the discovery of a new sub atomic particle at CERN
- finding things that have been intentionally concealed, as in the discovery by Allied cryptanalysis of the secret keys for the Enigma cipher machine during WW2.

Now Paul seems to think that by referring to the "discovery" of a sexual liaison, it must be being implied that this activity was intentionally concealed - by the joint agreement of both participants - so it must therefore have been consensual.

Even if this argument was valid - and it is utterly ludicrous - Deuteronomy was not composed in English, and therefore conclusions that might or might not be drawn from an English word, used in translation of the original term, are of no moment whatever.
Wut? Wait...

Here it almost seems that you are implying that depending upon interpretations of translations can lead to inaccuracies, turning exegesis into indogesis...

Whodathunkit?
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Old 3rd November 2016, 09:20 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
Wut? Wait...

Here it almost seems that you are implying that depending upon interpretations of translations can lead to inaccuracies, turning exegesis into indogesis balderdash...
Fixed that for you.
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Old 3rd November 2016, 09:22 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Fixed that for you.
Ta ever so!
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Old 4th November 2016, 12:24 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
If your analysis is correct, then it would be a recent event. I've brought this very point up in the earlier thread and Paul's response was no where near as humane.

If this is indeed what has happened, then my sympathies go out to the victim, and I sincerely hope she can find the support that she needs.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove breach of rule 0 and rule 12
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Old 4th November 2016, 01:09 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove rule breach in quote
If you had provided me with the indisputable proof of the existence of your god that you have promised me, I wouldn't need to guess, and neither would anyone else.
There are, as I see it, two possible reasons why you have not yet done this. Firstly, you don't actually have any indisputable proof. If this is the case, then you've just proved the NT to be wrong, as the two quotes you supplied to me clearly show that proof should be easy to find.
Secondly, you do have proof, but you don't want to post it. This makes all your professed love for your neighbours and devotion to the words of your god (who told you to evangelise) so much hollow vanity. You don't want to save my soul, nor the soul of anyone else. Instead, you get off on your self-proclaimed position as the voice of your god, and the only true Christian in the world, a position that enables you to talk down to people as you did in the post I have quoted above.

Which of these choices most accurately summarises your position, Paul Bethke?

ETA: A third option has just occurred to me. When you offered to provide indisputable proof, you were actually lying, and had no intention of providing it, whether you had it or not.
It doesn't really help your unenviable position, but it does give you a third option besides a rock and a hard place. Never let it be said that I am not a generous debater.
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Old 4th November 2016, 01:30 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
If you had provided me with the indisputable proof of the existence of your god that you have promised me, I wouldn't need to guess, and neither would anyone else.
There are, as I see it, two possible reasons why you have not yet done this. Firstly, you don't actually have any indisputable proof. If this is the case, then you've just proved the NT to be wrong, as the two quotes you supplied to me clearly show that proof should be easy to find.
Secondly, you do have proof, but you don't want to post it. This makes all your professed love for your neighbours and devotion to the words of your god (who told you to evangelise) so much hollow vanity. You don't want to save my soul, nor the soul of anyone else. Instead, you get off on your self-proclaimed position as the voice of your god, and the only true Christian in the world, a position that enables you to talk down to people as you did in the post I have quoted above.

Which of these choices most accurately summarises your position, Paul Bethke?
Well Sir, if you want to enter into the faith, I have already stated what is required.

My post above is to those who spend their time on speculating on their imagination, which is way off the mark, a clear sign of dilution—so it is of no avail to refute their dilutions.

The question is do you want to be saved from the destiny of those who reject the truth.

Another point that I have referred to, is that the Creator will decide when the time coincides with his plans.
I can only wait for the given word to start—so in the meantime I find amusement from the posts on the Forum. Knowing that the time is near.

The proof of my confidence in the upcoming events is of a personal revelation, which cannot be understood by those who suffer from misplaced speculation.

So when the time comes I will show people the proof of the existence of the Creator, the God of Israel.
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Old 4th November 2016, 02:25 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
I can only wait for the given word to start—so in the meantime I find amusement from the posts on the Forum. Knowing that the time is near.

The proof of my confidence in the upcoming events is of a personal revelation, which cannot be understood by those who suffer from misplaced speculation.

So when the time comes I will show people the proof of the existence of the Creator, the God of Israel.
In your forecast of the coming of the day, I hope you will be more accurate than "the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ" who assured the author of Revelation about things that "must shortly come to pass" for which we are still waiting nineteen hundred years later.

It also turns out that the "scoffers" who so irritated the author of 2 Peter were better informed than "the holy prophets" and "the apostles of the Lord and Saviour" when they asked "Where is the promise of his coming?" For he came not. Nor do I think you are any better informed than all these angels and prophets and apostles when you utter the same verbiage as they did two millennia ago.
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ ...

2 Peter 3:2 that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3 knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
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Old 4th November 2016, 02:35 AM   #252
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I do sometimes wonder what the early Christians would have thought if they had known that, 2000 years later, we would still be waiting for the events that "must shortly come to pass". Paul (the NT one, not the OP) was clearly an intelligent man, I like to think it would have made him reconsider.
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Old 4th November 2016, 03:24 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove rule breach in quote
.
That's rich coming from just one in a seemingly endless string of doomsday prophets. You're like all the rest, wrong about everything.

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Old 4th November 2016, 03:56 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove rule breach in quote
Ironic, given that you're guessing that god exists without a shred of evidence.
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Old 4th November 2016, 03:57 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove rule breach in quote
As opposed to changing definitions of words and terms to meet one's own prejudices?

Something about a removing a beam from your own eye first seems appropriate here.
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Old 4th November 2016, 04:11 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Well Sir, if you want to enter into the faith, I have already stated what is required.
No, thank you very much. I have no desire to hand control of my brain to any religious person for any reason. Why would I? Why would anyone?

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
My post above is to those who spend their time on speculating on their imagination, which is way off the mark, a clear sign of dilution—so it is of no avail to refute their dilutions.
Like the withered grass you imagined? Like the blindings you imagined?

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
The question is do you want to be saved from the destiny of those who reject the truth.
Nope. The gunderscored you propose is utterly morally repugnant. Nobody should have anything to do with him/her/it/housecat.

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Another point that I have referred to, is that the Creator will decide when the time coincides with his plans.
That was in 2010, remember? How did that work out for you?

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
I can only wait for the given word to start—
To start what, exactly?

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
so in the meantime I find amusement from the posts on the Forum. Knowing that the time is near.
People like you have been declaring that the time is near for 2000 years. You are simply one of the more recent ones.

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
The proof of my confidence in the upcoming events is of a personal revelation, which cannot be understood by those who suffer from misplaced speculation.
Now you claim that you have all the answers but you wont tell us. That alone makes you a non-prophet. What is the mandated punishment for that Paul Bethke?

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
So when the time comes I will show people the proof of the existence of the Creator, the God of Israel.
In other words, you will make a post-diction. What useless "prophecy".
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Old 4th November 2016, 04:41 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Ironic, given that you're guessing that god exists without a shred of evidence.
Not guessing at all--could not rely on a guess---I have unequivocal proof that the Creator YHVH is a real person, who gave us the Scriptures through our fellow man to have a record of himself, also revealing his plans and purpose.

You see for starters the world around us declares his creative ability.
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Old 4th November 2016, 04:47 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
No, thank you very much. I have no desire to hand control of my brain to any religious person for any reason. Why would I? Why would anyone?

Like the withered grass you imagined? Like the blindings you imagined?

Nope. The gunderscored you propose is utterly morally repugnant. Nobody should have anything to do with him/her/it/housecat.

That was in 2010, remember? How did that work out for you?

To start what, exactly?

People like you have been declaring that the time is near for 2000 years. You are simply one of the more recent ones.

Now you claim that you have all the answers but you wont tell us. That alone makes you a non-prophet. What is the mandated punishment for that Paul Bethke?

In other words, you will make a post-diction. What useless "prophecy".
You may be correct with my failed prediction, but that is not the END of the matter---failure can and has been the reassessment of my knowledge.

Now I am even more convinced that a far greater demonstration of power will be forthcoming—the need to convince man may require a more stringent demonstration, but this can only be assessed when the sign is given to commence.
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Old 4th November 2016, 04:47 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Well Sir, if you want to enter into the faith, I have already stated what is required.
No, that wasn't our deal. Let me remind you:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...9#post11529769

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak
How about showing us now?
Show us the empty graves, whose former occupants were taken into hell, according to the Bible quote you supplied.
Show us the unmistakable proof of your god's power that, according to the Bible quote you supplied, should have been given 2,000 years ago.
Then you've proved your point and saved my soul.
Don't you want my soul to be saved?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11531373

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke
So you are saying that when I provide indisputable evidence then you will convert to the faith?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...9#post11533109

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak
Yup. I thought that was quite clear.

Whenever you're ready, Paul.
I refer you back to my original post:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7#post11570867

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak
If you had provided me with the indisputable proof of the existence of your god that you have promised me, I wouldn't need to guess, and neither would anyone else.
There are, as I see it, two possible reasons why you have not yet done this. Firstly, you don't actually have any indisputable proof. If this is the case, then you've just proved the NT to be wrong, as the two quotes you supplied to me clearly show that proof should be easy to find.
Secondly, you do have proof, but you don't want to post it. This makes all your professed love for your neighbours and devotion to the words of your god (who told you to evangelise) so much hollow vanity. You don't want to save my soul, nor the soul of anyone else. Instead, you get off on your self-proclaimed position as the voice of your god, and the only true Christian in the world, a position that enables you to talk down to people as you did in the post I have quoted above.

Which of these choices most accurately summarises your position, Paul Bethke?

ETA: A third option has just occurred to me. When you offered to provide indisputable proof, you were actually lying, and had no intention of providing it, whether you had it or not.
It doesn't really help your unenviable position, but it does give you a third option besides a rock and a hard place. Never let it be said that I am not a generous debater.
Option 1, option 2 or option 3, Paul Bethke.Please don't dodge like you did before. Let your yes be yes, and your no be no.
Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
The proof of my confidence in the upcoming events is of a personal revelation, which cannot be understood by those who suffer from misplaced speculation.

So when the time comes I will show people the proof of the existence of the Creator, the God of Israel.
So, lookng at that, my guess is option 1: you don't have the evidence the NT says exists. No need for secret personal revelations at all, unless what you quoted was false. Right?

So, one more time: stick to the deal. Show me the indisputable proof, and I will convert. If you keep acting shifty about this, you damage your credibility even more than you already have. It's out here on the internet for everyone to see. Now's your chance, Paul Bethke. Show the world the proof, and save a soul to boot.
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Old 4th November 2016, 04:54 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I do sometimes wonder what the early Christians would have thought if they had known that, 2000 years later, we would still be waiting for the events that "must shortly come to pass". Paul (the NT one, not the OP) was clearly an intelligent man, I like to think it would have made him reconsider.
This was discussed, in the greatest possible detail, by Jeremy Bentham, in his hostile study of Paul: Not Paul But Jesus, in which Bentham proposed that the concept of the Antichrist was invented by Paul as a way of postponing the Parousia, as expectation of the imminence of this event was causing disorder among Paul's followers. This work may be downloaded from the Gutenberg site, and the relevant material is in CHAPTER XII. More Falsehoods.—Resurrection Witnesses multiplied.—World's End predicted.—To save credit, Antichrist invented.

This biography of Paul is of course very much dated - It was published in 1825 - but it is great fun, and still worth a read.

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Old 4th November 2016, 04:55 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
No, that wasn't our deal. Let me remind you:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...9#post11529769


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11531373



http://www.internationalskeptics.com...9#post11533109



I refer you back to my original post:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7#post11570867



Option 1, option 2 or option 3, Paul Bethke.Please don't dodge like you did before. Let your yes be yes, and your no be no.


So, lookng at that, my guess is option 1: you don't have the evidence the NT says exists. No need for secret personal revelations at all, unless what you quoted was false. Right?
Quote:
So, one more time: stick to the deal. Show me the indisputable proof, and I will convert. If you keep acting shifty about this, you damage your credibility even more than you already have. It's out here on the internet for everyone to see. Now's your chance, Paul Bethke. Show the world the proof, and save a soul to boot.
As I have said, YHVH decides the time for me to begin—I have learnt to wait and not to
preempt his timing.

So you will like the rest, disregard what I have said, OR wait. I will know when the time comes.
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Old 4th November 2016, 05:00 AM   #262
Craig B
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
As I have said, YHVH decides the time for me to begin—I have learnt to wait and not to
preempt his timing.

So you will like the rest, disregard what I have said, OR wait. I will know when the time comes.
If we had started waiting when John sat in Patmos writing his "revelation" we would all now be dead. I hope you have learned to wait for tens of centuries.
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Old 4th November 2016, 05:01 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove rule breach in quote


You say that now, but you've spent the last couple days rebelling against the text of the Bible, trying to twist words into a meaning that's more humane than the one found in the texts you deem holy.

For all your racism and genocide advocacy you are still in possession of a more humanitarian moral compass than the god of the Old Testament. The question becomes, will this realization set you on a path to enlightenment or will you bury your head in the sand?

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Old 4th November 2016, 05:01 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Not guessing at all--could not rely on a guess---I have unequivocal proof that the Creator YHVH is a real person
No you don't. If you had, you would have presented it.

Quote:
You see for starters the world around us declares his creative ability.
Word salad. The world around us is a mechanism. Nothing about it indicates an intelligent being behind it all. Quite the opposite, in fact. The chaotic, unstructured larger universe shows no intelligence at all. It behaves exactly as we'd expect it to were it formed through random forces.
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Old 4th November 2016, 05:01 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
As opposed to changing definitions of words and terms to meet one's own prejudices?

Something about a removing a beam from your own eye first seems appropriate here.
As I said delusion makes one see things that are not there. So I have no beam and can see clearly.

I cannot change what is written--it is final, so the truth can always be maintained.
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Old 4th November 2016, 05:06 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
No you don't. If you had, you would have presented it.



Word salad. The world around us is a mechanism. Nothing about it indicates an intelligent being behind it all. Quite the opposite, in fact. The chaotic, unstructured larger universe shows no intelligence at all. It behaves exactly as we'd expect it to were it formed through random forces.
No the world around us clearly demonstrates a creative design—to see it any other way is ludicrous.
To suggest that creation started by some chance or other makes no sense—hence nonsense!
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Old 4th November 2016, 05:14 AM   #267
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Signs of the End Times - Part Two

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
As I said delusion makes one see things that are not there. So I have no beam and can see clearly.



I cannot change what is written--it is final, so the truth can always be maintained.


And yet it is clear you do not actually believe that. You argued for two different interpretations on that verse and have contorted yourself into absurdity over fanciful notions of "discovered" having additional meanings previously unknown.

Your morality is not actually based upon the Bible. For all your racism you are still morally superior to the God of the Old Testament. Your mind is fracturing in an effort to reconcile your faith with your morality. Stop trying to defile your conscience in order to worship an unworthy bully.

You are better than the "god" you've been worshiping.
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Old 4th November 2016, 05:17 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
No the world around us clearly demonstrates [no quantifiable traces of] a creative design—to see it [that] way is ludicrous.
To suggest that creation [was] started by some [hypothesized but unproven supernatural agency] makes no sense—hence nonsense!
Fixed it to more closely reflect reality.

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Old 4th November 2016, 05:19 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
No the world around us clearly demonstrates a creative design—to see it any other way is ludicrous.
You're clearly not very informed on reason and science. Tell me, what creative design do you see here:

http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.../lss_slice.png

Quote:
To suggest that creation started by some chance or other makes no sense
Why not?
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Old 4th November 2016, 05:57 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You may be correct with my failed prediction, but that is not the END of the matter---failure can and has been the reassessment of my knowledge.
Are you accepting your dismal previous failures?

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Now I am even more convinced that a far greater demonstration of power will be forthcoming—the need to convince man may require a more stringent demonstration, but this can only be assessed when the sign is given to commence.
A sign you cannot identify which will occur at a time you cannot identify to people you cannot identify at a location you cannot identify.

In the role of a prophet, you really are as useful as a fart in a hurricane. All you have to show for your prognostications is a track record of abject failure.
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Old 4th November 2016, 06:01 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
As I said delusion makes one see things that are not there.
Like random deities, no?
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Old 4th November 2016, 06:02 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Just another impotent god.
Arnold, the Small God of teddy bears, is more formidable.

Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Prepare for an enternity of boredom and submission.
And not the fun kind...

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Old 4th November 2016, 06:39 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post

Now now. Heaven is not the same for everyone. Why, there's even a highly reliable travelogue on the topic. While a bit dated, this is Heaven we're talking about. I doubt all that much has changed.

Extract from Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven by Mark Twain
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Old 4th November 2016, 07:01 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Edited by Agatha:  Edited to remove rule breach in quote
Mr. Bethke:

You have continued to avoid substantively responding to even the most simple questions.

I repeat mine: Do you, personally, think that the earth rotates on its axis, and revolves around the sun (technically, as part of the earth-moon couple); or is it the other way 'round?
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Old 4th November 2016, 07:12 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
As I said delusion makes one see things that are not there. So I have no beam and can see clearly.
Are you a man bereft of prejudices, biases and life experiences that shape how you perceive the world around you, your actions and the actions of others? Or are you the sort of person that is unable to consider that you may be wrong, or that other people looking at the same thing as you may perceive it differently?

Quote:
I cannot change what is written--it is final, so the truth can always be maintained.
You haven't heard of editing?

As you are aware there are a substantial number of translations of what we call the Bible. These all differ in ways that range from substantial (some contain more books than others), to subtle (the same word from the original language is translated differently into a modern language). Those differences make it rather challenging to parse out "the truth."

It becomes even harder to do so when an event or person can only be found in one source, or if the physical evidence of such an event or person is absent.
Much of the Bible falls into this - as outside of the Bible there is no mention of the many of the events or people described.

Having only one source leads to a lack of perspective or context for what is found within that source. As an example, Vlad Dracula can be seen as either a tough, but fair ruler or as a bloodthirsty monster depending on whether you are reading the pamphlets or chronicles prepared by either the Turks, or if you consult Wallachian sources. If you only consulted the Wallachian sources, you'd come away with the idea that Vlad II was a fierce defender of his principality from all foreigners bent on exploiting it and a man of uncompromising ideals, but if you could only find the pamphlets put out by the Saxon merchants of Tirgoviste, or the court histories of the Ottomans you'd come away thinking that Vlad was a madman, ruling by fear and force. The existence of additional sources allows us to get a better, more balanced picture of the events or persons depicted.
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Old 4th November 2016, 07:15 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Well Sir, if you want to enter into the faith, I have already stated what is required.
Except that is not the issue; the poster asked for your proof of you 'god's' existence.

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
My post above is to those who spend their time on speculating on their imagination, which is way off the mark, a clear sign of dilution—so it is of no avail to refute their dilutions.
Interesting that your "infallible, perfect understanding" does not prevent you from making simple grammatico-lexical errors. What do you think ypou mean by "dilution", a word you are continuing to use incorrectly?

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
The question is do you want to be saved from the destiny of those who reject the truth.
So far, "http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/truth" does not seem to be a component of any of your arguments.

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Another point that I have referred to, is that the Creator will decide when the time coincides with his plans.
I can only wait for the given word to start—so in the meantime I find amusement from the posts on the Forum. Knowing that the time is near.
Mr. Bethke, you have yet to demonstrate the least indication of your "Creator".

Not to mention, you boasted that you would present "signs". Has your "infallible, perfect undertstanding"...changed?

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
The proof of my confidence in the upcoming events is of a personal revelation, which cannot be understood by those who suffer from misplaced speculation.
Your "vision" is not proof of anything.

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
So when the time comes I will show people the proof of the existence of the Creator, the God of Israel.
You have made this brag before, and have suffered the fate of false prophets in the hands of rational people. It certainly looks as if, this time, you are hoping to wait for some calamity, than, after the fact, claim it in the name of your 'god'-monster.

How...holy.
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Old 4th November 2016, 07:26 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Well Sir, if you want to enter into the faith, I have already stated what is required.

My post above is to those who spend their time on speculating on their imagination, which is way off the mark, a clear sign of dilution—so it is of no avail to refute their dilutions.
Homeopathy?

Tell you what, you keep making camera jokes whenever I use too many "n"s in "Canon" and I'll keep making homeopathy jokes when you use "dilution" in place of "delusion." A little lighthearted humor is acceptable in religious debates. If there is a god, she/he/it MUST have a sense of humor, just look at the Duck-Billed Platypus.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120655/quotes
Quote:
Bethany: What's he like?
Metatron: God? Lonely. But funny. He's got a great sense of humor. Take sex for example. There's nothing funnier than the ridiculous faces you people make mid-coitus.
Bethany: Sex is a joke in heaven?
Metatron: The way I understand it, it's mostly a joke down here, too.

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Old 4th November 2016, 07:27 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Not guessing at all--could not rely on a guess---I have unequivocal proof...
Another word you are using incorrectly. "Infallible, perfect understanding" does not seem to be helping you.

Your argument is built upon equivocation, as you shop back-and-forth from version to version, desperately hoping you can find an interpretation of a translationn that you can claim supports your innate racism, bigotry, misogyny, and revenge-fantasies; all that while ignoring all others, including that actual words of the actual text.

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
... that the Creator YHVH is a real person...
Unsupported assertion of a fairy tale.

Why did you use "YHVH[sic]", here, instead of "HASHEM[sic]"?

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
...who gave us the Scriptures through our fellow man to have a record of himself, also revealing his plans and purpose.
"Scriptures" you do not (per your boasts you cannot) read; leaving you free to equivocate among version-shopped "proof".

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
You see for starters the world around us declares his creative ability.
The "world around us" declares an odd preponderance of beetles...and the fact that that most of "creation" spends its life in terror of being eaten. Nice 'god'.
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Old 4th November 2016, 07:31 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
As I said delusion makes one see things that are not there. So I have no beam and can see clearly.

I cannot change what is written--it is final, so the truth can always be maintained.
Mr. Bethke:

You constantly "change what is written"; as with (for instance) your desire to ignore the actual significance of "Peter's" "vision"; or with your several-day's struggle with the law, above (wherein your version-shopping resulted in comical self-contradiction).
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Old 4th November 2016, 07:33 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
No the world around us clearly demonstrates a creative design—to see it any other way is ludicrous.
I eagerly await your support of this assertion...

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
To suggest that creation started by some chance or other makes no sense—hence nonsense!
...whenever you are ready.

Does your fantasy about your 'god's' "creative design" incorporate a sun that revolves around the earth?
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