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3rd August 2017, 06:10 AM | #361 |
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"Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov |
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3rd August 2017, 06:30 AM | #362 |
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3rd August 2017, 06:33 AM | #363 |
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"Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov |
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3rd August 2017, 06:37 AM | #364 |
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At least for another 28 posts.
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3rd August 2017, 06:51 AM | #365 |
... and your little dog too.
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3rd August 2017, 06:57 AM | #366 |
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3rd August 2017, 09:53 AM | #367 |
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No, the OP is about a woman who gave birth while living as a man. The OP clearly shows that objective reality remains unchanged despite one's delusions and compulsions.
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3rd August 2017, 11:12 AM | #368 |
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If you like? I think it might be easier if you just accepted a correction every now and then.
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If you prefer, a woman is: 1. an adult human female 2. someone who has the gender attributes of a woman1. There's nothing circular about that second sense. It just has a dependency on the (different) first sense, kind of like how our definition of woman1 depends on the definition of female, and especially in understanding that it isn't synonymous with woman.
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Taking that on board does constitute progress, because its allows us to deal with the world as it actually is, and develop our simplifying assumptions in light of that, rather than just projecting received beliefs onto the world. Which is why there's a great deal of irony in all the people yammering on about "objective reality." |
3rd August 2017, 11:18 AM | #369 |
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3rd August 2017, 11:58 AM | #370 |
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3rd August 2017, 12:00 PM | #371 |
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3rd August 2017, 12:03 PM | #372 |
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Part of what makes the matter fuzzy. We've become less rigid in what constitutes "typically associated". When describing typical female behavior, cultural, and psychological traits, what even are those? Women can fall along a pretty wide spectrum in all these areas.
They may be typically more nurturing, wear their hair in longer or softer styles, dress in certain clothing, be less aggressive in career pursuits, etc., but any given woman is likely to have these traits to a greater or lesser extent or not at all. And many possess traits "typically associated" with males. I know "girly-girl" women and "mannish" women, and every type in between. The same with men - macho? effeminate? what defines typical? If we can't determine or assign a "gender" based solely on how many of these traits one does or does not possess, then it becomes up to the individual to tell us how they want to be seen and to live their lives in society (what difference would it make to a hermit, after all?) For most of us, it's not something we have to worry about. We got parts, we go with it and fall somewhere along our respective male or female spectrum. For others, apparently the disconnect between the parts and the traits is so large that they feel compelled to switch teams, as it were. |
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3rd August 2017, 12:18 PM | #373 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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3rd August 2017, 12:27 PM | #374 |
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3rd August 2017, 12:36 PM | #375 |
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No one has said that. It is this simple. A man cannot have a baby. To have a baby you need the female sex organs. Men do not have female sex organs. That is not saying that a woman who has had something like a hysterectomy or whatever is not a woman.
Now, I understand there are some people who feel like they have the wrong parts. I hope they live their life in whatever way makes them feel complete. If this person wants to call themselves a man they are free to do so. We are all free to call ourselves whatever we want. To pretend that this is a case of a man having a baby is utter nonsense. This is simply a case of someone who wants to be, but is not currently, a man. I mean not biologically a man. |
3rd August 2017, 12:39 PM | #376 |
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3rd August 2017, 12:56 PM | #377 |
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So we have a person who is a man (gender is masculine), but not a male (because his sex is female). Great. Good terms.
Take down all the locker room signs that say "men" and replace them with ones that say "male", and it works for me. Oh.......not everyone agrees? Hmmm.....figures. |
3rd August 2017, 12:58 PM | #378 |
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3rd August 2017, 02:23 PM | #379 |
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3rd August 2017, 02:41 PM | #380 |
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Not simple. This is a logical fallacy (someone help me, I've forgotten the term).
All persons who can give birth are female. This person cannot give birth. ___________________________________ Therefore: this person is not female. This is a fallacy, because the statement "All persons who can give birth are female" does not exclude persons who cannot give birth, but simply includes in the term a certain group which is potentially a subset of all those who are female. |
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3rd August 2017, 03:11 PM | #381 |
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3rd August 2017, 03:42 PM | #382 |
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3rd August 2017, 04:03 PM | #383 |
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biologically xx is female and xy is male,
there are exceptions and they tend to have been recognised and labelled already. If you wake up and feel like changing whether your a girl/boy which you identify with but you're not in the exception group, then I feel you are being lead by whats the cool and fashionable thing to do that makes you feel special. |
3rd August 2017, 04:23 PM | #384 |
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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3rd August 2017, 05:06 PM | #385 |
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3rd August 2017, 05:34 PM | #386 |
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I mentioned that already
your example would come under the above in the sense that its biological thing, ie physical. If you have none of the above then you're just following a trend that you find compelling and you're just trying to feel special. |
3rd August 2017, 05:40 PM | #387 |
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Speaking of logical fallacies, you have managed to do a fantastic job of illustrating the fallacy of the straw man. That term is thrown around here with reckless abandon, but this is an actual case. PonderingTurtle has substituted a phony argument for a real one, and you have demonstrated the flaw with the phony one. That's exactly how the straw man fallacy is supposed to work. To demonstrate the fallacy with an argument about logical fallacies is quite cool.
There is one aspect of the straw man fallacy that I am not sure this fits, though. The straw man is supposed to be a deliberate construction. I'm not sure ponderingturtle understands the original argument adequately to deliberately construct the substitute. I'm not sure there's such a thing as an "accidental" straw man. |
3rd August 2017, 05:48 PM | #388 |
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I think it's important for you as a human being to understand this.
Communication requires interpretation. If I merely took the literal value of your words, and made no attempt to interpret, then I'd have to conclude that you made no argument and simply ignore you. Instead, I make the interpretation that you're actually trying to make an argument and try to discern what argument that is. It's what human beings do every fricking day. Now I have a few options when my attempt at interpretation leaves me looking at an argument that does not look rational. Most responses would be more or less variations on these handful. 1) I can use my magical mind reading powers to discern what you really meant but left no reasonable clues of. Not too likely as I am not a psychic. 2) I can broadly ask you what the heck you mean, but then I'm very likely to get another bit of language that requires interpretation, so we're back at square one. 3) I can assume my interpretation is correct and respond as though the argument is as flawed as it appears to be. 4) I can present my interpretation in a context using words like "seems" to give you an opportunity to clarify what you mean. Now I'm sorry if the word "seems" or the fact that casual language requires interpretations has triggered your delicate sensibilities. But some of us are concerned with clarity and truth. |
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3rd August 2017, 06:02 PM | #389 |
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The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping. |
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3rd August 2017, 06:08 PM | #390 |
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3rd August 2017, 06:24 PM | #391 |
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3rd August 2017, 06:27 PM | #392 |
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Stop there. If you can't post without condescension, don't bother. And don't pretend that your weasel words fool me.
However, this:
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3rd August 2017, 07:01 PM | #393 |
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Funniest post in the thread!
So in your world, women are allowed to define their "gender" any way they want, just as long as that definition doesn't discriminate against confused men who might want to become women? "So why again is the horse behind the cart?" You're like a walking logical fallacy. Good stuff! I've read that paragraph above 15 times and I'll be damned if I truly understand a ******* thing you're saying. If it's in any way profound then I'm a monkey's uncle. Really? Clarity and truth? "As flawed as it appears to be"? Really? This is the best you got? And all while acting like a complete ********? You're literally making things up and then accusing those things of being flawed/irrational. Pro Tip™: Quit while you're not too far behind. |
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3rd August 2017, 07:58 PM | #394 |
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The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON |
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4th August 2017, 12:39 AM | #395 |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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4th August 2017, 02:11 AM | #397 |
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4th August 2017, 02:13 AM | #398 |
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4th August 2017, 02:53 AM | #399 |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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4th August 2017, 03:10 AM | #400 |
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