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4th August 2017, 02:37 PM | #481 |
Muse
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4th August 2017, 03:14 PM | #482 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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4th August 2017, 03:19 PM | #483 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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4th August 2017, 03:37 PM | #485 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2012
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No, a man did not have a baby. A woman that is taking hormone treatments so that they can become like a man had a baby, they had a womb and an uterus and all the female components that are involved in having a baby.
That statement doesn't even make any sense. |
4th August 2017, 03:47 PM | #486 |
Species traitor
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The bait-and-switch is not in ever saying "man gives birth", it's in working very hard to create the impression that a male pregnancy has occurred and withholding important details until you click through.
Trystan Reese, apart from not being part of "the media" in the ordinary sense, cannot be accused of withholding the fact that he's transgendered. It's all over his web site, which is presumably where the video came from. |
4th August 2017, 04:02 PM | #487 |
Illuminator
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4th August 2017, 04:08 PM | #488 |
... and your little dog too.
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4th August 2017, 04:11 PM | #489 |
Fiend God
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And you answer only one question per thread, is that it?
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Your entire argument is based on ideology, such that you can't even formulate a response that isn't either a lie, a misrepresentation, or projection. |
4th August 2017, 04:14 PM | #490 |
Fiend God
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4th August 2017, 04:16 PM | #491 |
Fiend God
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4th August 2017, 06:08 PM | #492 |
Graduate Poster
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Because mental illness should be allowed to do anything it wants. Who are you to try to prohibit a 300 pound "man who thinks he's a woman with a penis" from wearing just one piece of a DKNY™ bikini while demanding urinals with mango flavored urinal cakes in all women's restrooms?! Why would you try to stop that? Why? You must hate
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4th August 2017, 06:14 PM | #493 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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4th August 2017, 06:18 PM | #494 |
Penultimate Amazing
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What?
I answered your question. Did you have another? You were. No, we were discussing minding your own business. The clue was in the phrase "minding your own business". You are the dishonest one in this exchange. You are projecting. I am? Where did I say that? Please provide a link. Don't run away this time. ETA: Actually, don't bother. I'm done with your crap. You know absolutely jack **** about my ideology. You think you do, so you are arguing against what you think I believe, but you never even stop to think that maybe, just maybe, you actually don't have a clue. You are projecting so bad I feel ashamed on your behalf. Bye-bye. |
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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4th August 2017, 06:19 PM | #495 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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4th August 2017, 06:29 PM | #496 |
Master Poster
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DoYouEverWonder - Engineers and architects don't have to design steel buildings not to collapse from gravity. They already conquered gravity when they built it. - Professional Wastrel |
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4th August 2017, 06:30 PM | #497 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Which is to say, a woman who is hoping that modern medicine will help her feel more like what she thinks society is telling her a man should feel; and is kindly asking us to treat her as a man to help complete the illusion.
Of course, HAVING A *********** BABY kind of shatters the illusion, so I don't see how society owes her anything, at this point. This signature is intended to irradiate people. |
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4th August 2017, 06:36 PM | #498 |
Banned
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4th August 2017, 06:37 PM | #499 |
Banned
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Will dad be breastfeeding her baby?
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4th August 2017, 06:49 PM | #500 |
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4th August 2017, 06:55 PM | #501 |
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So, if he's doing it by divine means, I can only tell him this: 'Mr. Geller, you're doing it the hard way.' --James Randi |
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4th August 2017, 07:04 PM | #502 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Complicity in her medically induced and insincere cosplay, obviously. I mean, sure, call her a dude if it means dodging a workplace harassment charge. But beyond that... She had a baby. Be honest, johnny karate: what do you think is going on up in that belly of hers? Boy stuff? Or girl stuff?
This signature is intended to irradiate people. |
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4th August 2017, 07:12 PM | #503 |
... and your little dog too.
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4th August 2017, 07:34 PM | #504 |
... and your little dog too.
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4th August 2017, 08:01 PM | #505 |
Muse
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Again, the transman himself said a man gave birth. Shouldn't that count above anything else? He was not saying it tongue in cheek like someone suggested. He clearly feels he is a man that gave birth and seems to want others to think the same. He said it more like, "Ha, ha to anyone that says a man can't give birth."
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4th August 2017, 08:32 PM | #506 |
... and your little dog too.
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4th August 2017, 10:49 PM | #507 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Well, would you find anything wrong with that yourself? Trans man walks into a woman's locker room. What should happen? We know what would happen--shrieks and covering up and maybe one of the gals has been practicing boxing.
But the trans man has an explanation. Yeah, he's been a man for a couple years now, but it really isn't working out and he's thinking of transitioning back to being a woman and this is part of the process. Okay, no harm, no foul, sorry the women were upset and little Miss Right Hook is going to find out that assault and battery against a transgendered person is a hate crime. |
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4th August 2017, 11:22 PM | #508 |
... and your little dog too.
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5th August 2017, 02:02 AM | #509 |
Master Poster
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I think you are a little confused. The argument is that transgender persons should be able to use the facility that matches the gender they are presenting as. Opponents want them to use their biologically assigned facility, regardless of how they actually appear to themselves or others. There wouldn't be a fuss about it if everyone were on the same side...
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DoYouEverWonder - Engineers and architects don't have to design steel buildings not to collapse from gravity. They already conquered gravity when they built it. - Professional Wastrel |
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5th August 2017, 02:44 AM | #510 |
Fiend God
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Ah, there's that pretense of not knowing what's going on, again.
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5th August 2017, 02:46 AM | #511 |
Fiend God
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5th August 2017, 02:48 AM | #512 |
Fiend God
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5th August 2017, 07:17 AM | #513 |
... and your little dog too.
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5th August 2017, 07:52 AM | #514 |
Illuminator
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I'm surprised it wasn't spun as a male homosexual couple have a natural childbirth of a non gender assigned child.
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"Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov |
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5th August 2017, 08:02 AM | #515 |
Fiend God
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Except it didn't seem to me like you were saying that you didn't believe he wanted the actual answer, but rather that the real answer didn't matter.
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There's a difference between one (speaking out in frustration, which tends to bring hyperbole) and the other (changing the topic repeatedly). |
5th August 2017, 08:25 AM | #516 |
Penultimate Amazing
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No, when people who complain about hypocrisy and childishness display such brazen and childish hypocrisy with nary a word from their cohorts, it shows the entire discussion to be bankrupt of critical exploration of a topic and more about advancing a side.
As you were never discussing this honestly, there is no reason for them to continue engaging you. I thank Cavemonster for the attempt, as well as a few others in this thread, but when people cite the dictionary and don't even see it doesn't say what they think it says, there is no room for advancement. Moreover, when people just refuse the context and continue on with their vapid strawmen without even acknowledging the bad arguments others on their 'side' are making, you're doing nothing for them and are just arguing for the lurkers. Gender is not the same as sex, and this distinction is both useful and factual. Arguing that sex overrides all in all contexts is foolishly ignoring context and nuance. It's the same as saying light always behaves as a particle, or that tomatoes are always a fruit despite knowing that in culinary contexts they're vegetables. Keep the strawman about feelings being everything, the old people locked into their silly gender biases don't have to get it, and it seems more than a few of them are determined to willfully not. |
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Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong |
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5th August 2017, 08:31 AM | #517 |
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This isn't quite accurate. An awful lot of "opponents" would agree with the argument in your first statement above.
Let's take me, for example. I agree that transgender people should use the facility that matches the gender they are presenting as. Now, here's where I part company with many other people. As soon as they present a penis, I say they are presenting as a man. I don't care about their hair or their waistline or their makeup or even their hormonally induced breast-like tissue. I think you would actually find that a very common opinion of "opponents" as evidenced by so many people's reaction, when someone upthread tried the familiar "I'll show you a picture of someone who looks very feminine or masculine and ask which locker room they ought to use." Everyone who answered said we couldn't know, because we can't see the things that we would see if they were using a locker room. Indeed, I will go one step farther, and say that even if the people using the locker room can't see the penis, but they know it's there, that person is presenting, to them, as a man. This is what comes up again and again in various school locker room battles, and I'm constantly amazed that grown-ups can't figure out what the problem is. (As the senior girl said at the Palatine, Illinois school board meeting, "Can she put the towel over her eyes?") So, in that delivery room, the person who inspired this thread was presenting as a woman. |
5th August 2017, 09:27 AM | #518 |
Master Poster
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It seems rather disingenuous to suggest that everyone is in agreement about X when you are using different meanings for a key term. How does this resolve anything? You still have an issue with two (or more) sides at an apparent impasse.
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DoYouEverWonder - Engineers and architects don't have to design steel buildings not to collapse from gravity. They already conquered gravity when they built it. - Professional Wastrel |
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5th August 2017, 11:42 AM | #519 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Gosh, do I feel silly! Here I thought quite a few people were saying that a trans woman who has not had the operation should be allowed to use a women's locker room, even though "she" still has the genitals of a male. Glad to see you aren't proposing anything kooky like that.
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5th August 2017, 12:11 PM | #520 |
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A key term? Like "opponent", as in "Opponents want them", or maybe "presents"? when "presents" isn't really defined? Does "presents" mean "attempts to be seen as", or does it mean "appears to be to most observers"? Or is there some other meaning?
Or are we talking about a key word like "gender", which not everyone uses the same way? Ten years ago, almost no one used it the way we are told is "correct" today, and I'll bet that 25 years ago, literally no one used it the way we are told is correct today. And then there are the terms "man" and "woman", "boy" and "girl". But I thought I made it clear in my post that I was describing my opinion, which I explicitly stated was held by an "awful lot of 'opponents'", as opposed to being a universally shared opinion, even among the poorly defined set of "opponents". I must admit, I referred to "people using the locker room", which could mistakenly be read as "all people using the locker room", instead of "many people using the locker room", which was the intended meaning. But I think the problem of painting with too broad of a brush in this case occurred primarily when you described what "opponents" wanted, and you did so inaccurately. There are some people who believe that, but it is far from a universally held opinion. My guess is that the largest faction of "opponents" believe as I do, that post op transgenders should use the facility of the adopted gender.
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Well....nothing comes to mind immediately, and I don't have time to do a google scholar literature search, but I do recall from college days that one of the key cognitive developmental milestones identified by Piaget was the point at which children realize that an object that is hidden does not cease to exist. i.e. When you put the cup over the ball, the ball is still there, though it is hidden. I'm sure that the same principle holds for the plural. |
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