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6th August 2017, 02:48 PM | #561 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
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A person (A) who is genetically male, and has a history of heterosexual male activity, dates a person who self-identifies as a woman (B) after meeting on an internet dating site. They get close and cuddly, and A discovers that B has a a full set of "a boy's dangly bits".
Does he get a refund, or just an interesting new experience? Seriously ... the scenario regarding the spa, upthread, is a real consideration. |
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6th August 2017, 02:52 PM | #562 |
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If you're refering the time where _I_ quoted the dictionary, that isn't me being shown the definitions, and I didn't reject it. I disagreed on the interpretation. Once again you twist words in order to protect your conclusion.
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6th August 2017, 02:56 PM | #563 |
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6th August 2017, 04:53 PM | #564 |
Illuminator
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6th August 2017, 05:26 PM | #565 |
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6th August 2017, 05:41 PM | #566 | |||
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Somewhat on topic.
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6th August 2017, 06:21 PM | #567 | |||
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Corrected link.
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6th August 2017, 06:49 PM | #568 |
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So, if he's doing it by divine means, I can only tell him this: 'Mr. Geller, you're doing it the hard way.' --James Randi |
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6th August 2017, 07:25 PM | #569 |
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So what if he does not want to get sexual with a penis? If he does not want to, he is a bigot!
A lesbian woman meets someone that claims to be a woman. Later she finds out the woman has a penis. She should just go ahead and have sex with her or else she is a bigot too! |
6th August 2017, 07:45 PM | #570 |
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These are especially stupid or dishonest straw men. No one has here has made any argument even adjacent to this. The quote from Argumemnon there is a straight up lie. No one has said you're a bigot if you don't want to date or have sexual relations with a transwoman. No one has implied that. The two possibilities are you all know that no one has said that, in which case you're being dishonest, or you honestly think that is what others are saying, in which case you're not comprehending. First of all, what counts as a 'dealbreaker' for you personally is your own to decide. If penis kills it for you, penis kills it for you. If red hair kills if for you, red hair kills it for you. Second, and more importantly, do you all not even understand how horribly sexist to both men and women (cis, trans, or otherwise) what you are saying is? If you don't want to have sex with a person, that person's not a woman? Are men defined by just always wanting to have sex with all women? The actually hell? Is that how you all think? Is that why you think people like me think like that? This just raises so many more questions. It does make it pretty clear that it's just not worth it. The outright lies were bad enough, but this exposes some pretty messed up thinking that I was not prepared for. Stuff all those 'PC SJW' accusations, you all know I've had my own issues with them. You guys though, damn. |
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6th August 2017, 08:44 PM | #571 |
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You're wrong. People have definitely said that. I don't know about on this board specifically (though Argumemnon didn't claim anyone here said that either), but such an argument has in fact been made, explicitly.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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6th August 2017, 09:54 PM | #572 |
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There was a thread here on this, complete with a lot of brave "I wouldn't rule it outs," but I don't recall a lot of finger-wagging at the more hesitant.
https://static.pjmedia.com/instapund...y-600x322.jpeg That is terrific! |
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7th August 2017, 02:38 AM | #573 |
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I'm sorry Tyr, but perhaps you didn't participate in said thread. I was there. It was said. If I remember correctly the whole thread was about whether you would be ok if you learned that your partner used to be of a different sex, and anyone who said no was said to be a bigot. So I'd like you to retract your accusation (see, there's that word again), because you seem to be very eager to use it even when you don't know what you're talking about.
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7th August 2017, 04:32 AM | #574 |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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7th August 2017, 05:01 AM | #575 |
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7th August 2017, 05:23 AM | #576 |
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There is no Antimemetics Division. |
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7th August 2017, 05:23 AM | #577 |
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Is there a name for the idea that because someone somewhere on 'your side' expressed a position, that you can't argue your own position without addressing what they said? Or that you can't just say 'that's not the position I'm arguing' and the conversation gets to move on? 'Nobody is saying that' is not generally understood to mean 'literally nobody anywhere ever said that' and is more typically meant to be read as 'nobody in this current discussion/general consensus is saying that.'
It really is tiresome how much these things get derailed into arguments about argument. I mean this is a topic I'm interested in even, but the posts are more abysmal meta than meat. "Oh? Nobody would call me a bigot if X? Well somebody in a thread from last year says I'm a bigot if X so you're wrong" like yes 40 tech points but can we please have a conversation instead of that? |
7th August 2017, 06:52 AM | #578 |
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Had tyr simply said that this wasn't the issue here in this thread, then we could have quite easily moved on. But he didn't. He called Argumemnon a liar, and then basically said it wasn't worth talking to him because he's a liar, even though Argumemnon didn't actually lie. You think that advances the conversation?
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th August 2017, 07:08 AM | #579 |
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Because the way Arg said it sounded like everyone had agreed on that conclusion. That you're a bigot if X. As opposed to it being an extreme position not being advocated in this discussion. That's why it was called a lie.
Why must we focus so damn hard on miscommunication? "I don't see what people don't like about cream cheese" "Oh we've had this conversation before. You're an idiot if you don't like cream cheese." "What? That's a lie" *links to thread where somebody said you're an idiot if you don't like cream cheese* |
7th August 2017, 07:08 AM | #580 |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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7th August 2017, 07:12 AM | #581 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th August 2017, 07:26 AM | #582 |
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7th August 2017, 07:27 AM | #583 |
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There is probably either a chemical or hormonal or structural, genetically-driven reason behind said belief. Contrary to some here would like us to believe, saying that doesn't mean transgender people aren't people, or that they should be harassed, or that they should off themselves. However, it also does not mean that suddenly, gender is all about, or mainly about, or even significantly about, that belief.
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7th August 2017, 07:29 AM | #584 |
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Perhaps you didn't follow, but my comment was in response to someone bringing up that exact scenario, and the last time that was discussed here, to my knowledge, was the thread I was refering to.
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7th August 2017, 07:40 AM | #585 |
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7th August 2017, 07:46 AM | #586 |
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Every time I've interacted with you in this thread has been me trying to guess what you meant because you didn't spell anything out. It's like you're making shadow puppets and I go "is it a bunny?" and you go "I in no way meant for that to be a bunny"
I'll respectfully withdraw from this thread, it's way too frustrating for me. |
7th August 2017, 09:10 AM | #587 | ||
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7th August 2017, 09:28 AM | #588 |
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7th August 2017, 09:31 AM | #589 |
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And we totally have to stop pretending androgen insenstive men are women. They need to use the male locker room. Simple and direct.
You can't depend on a simple look at someones genitals to be sure what their sex is after all. You need detailed physicals to determine what locker room someone is allowed to use. |
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7th August 2017, 09:43 AM | #590 |
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7th August 2017, 09:49 AM | #591 |
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I imagined that the other women would MOSTLY be uncomfortable. I don't think that's off-base. See my reply to Aepervius below.
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I would also add that responding to a poll is one thing; being confronted with a person who has a penis openly walking around in your dressing room is quite another. You didn't say anything about pre-surgical transwomen so I'm not sure if the poll covered that situation. But still, it reveals significant discomfort in the general idea of transgendered people in a locker room situation. |
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7th August 2017, 10:02 AM | #592 |
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Is discomfort or expectation of discomfort a reason to exclude a group of people from something carte blanche? It seems like we have, on occasion, rejected that idea. By "we" I mean our representative system or society in general, not people on this forum in general or specific.
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7th August 2017, 10:03 AM | #593 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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7th August 2017, 10:04 AM | #594 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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7th August 2017, 10:07 AM | #595 |
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Is this get rid of the trans women or trans men from your locker room? Which one do you want in there with you? Likewise your wife.
From the first paragraph it seems to be ban all trans people because they are not a high enough percentage to matter. But what is that percentage, why do gay people meet that percentage but not trans people? |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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7th August 2017, 10:08 AM | #596 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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7th August 2017, 10:26 AM | #597 |
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Agreed. No matter how much a person might identify as female*, if they need (and here I'm assuming the truth of my guess - just ftsoa) a catheter to deal with a urogenital problem and ask for a female-style catheter then their doctor is fully entitled to point out that, physically, they are not 'female' as they possess male genitals and need a male's catheter.
(*And reverse the whole scenario if you wish.) Self-identification doesn't trump physical reality. To go back to my 'dating scene' a while back - if the cis-hetero-male notes that his date is not cis-female and wasn't made aware of this before they met up then I'd say he'd be very entitled to be pretty miffed. He doesn't become a bigot for refusing to get sexual with her, nor even for going off in a huff; he* shouldn't have been exposed to the situation in the first place. (*See * above) |
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7th August 2017, 10:36 AM | #598 |
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So, if he's doing it by divine means, I can only tell him this: 'Mr. Geller, you're doing it the hard way.' --James Randi |
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7th August 2017, 10:38 AM | #599 |
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"Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov |
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7th August 2017, 10:39 AM | #600 |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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