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Tags LGBT issues , transgender incidents , transgender issues

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Old 7th August 2017, 10:49 AM   #601
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Originally Posted by CosCos View Post
My "issue" is shared by billions of people around the world. It is not normal for people to walk around naked and unafraid. It is basic human nature and codified in law. I'm not going to get into this argument, I already stated that we are not the odd ones out.
That does seem to be normal in some locations. Well maybe with a 3' penis sheath.
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Old 7th August 2017, 10:55 AM   #602
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Okay; I've read the whole thread, but I have questions:

Why is there a fine for calling someone the wrong gender? To me, that's essentially a fine for "saying mean things" or simply "name calling".
It is about degree and scope. Like sexual harassment laws do not make it illegal to ask a coworker on a date, this is rather similar. It is meant to target gender based harassment.
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Old 7th August 2017, 10:58 AM   #603
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Wow. You really shouldn't go into mind-reading, because you failed spectacularly. My argument is that people who argue that trans gendered people should use the "right" locker room would be freaked out if that actually happened, and one of those trans men walked into a women's locker room.
It is like the cartoon says trans people have the option of getting yelled at or getting beat up. That is working as it is intended to work.
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Old 7th August 2017, 10:59 AM   #604
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
What's wrong with using the term transman? That makes it clear and shouldn't be offensive. We can still use the male pronouns and be polite, but we aren't denying reality either.
Because it shows that trans men are not real men. Think of it worded like this

Real American
African American.

You see the problem.
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Old 7th August 2017, 11:02 AM   #605
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Originally Posted by sylvan8798 View Post
People with mental illness who are a disruption or a danger to themselves and those around them should be put in mental hospitals.
And making people uncomfortable is a disruption. This is why all gay people need to be put into mental hospitals. They are causing disruptions and as society will not countenance that.
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Old 7th August 2017, 11:05 AM   #606
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If a pre surgical transwoman wants to go to the spa and use the whirlpool before her massage, which lounge should she use? If your answer is "women's," I would imagine the other women in there would mostly be uncomfortable with a penis-possessing person seeing them naked.
And they will be totally comfortable with the trans man?
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Old 7th August 2017, 11:07 AM   #607
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Poll shows about 66% acceptance among young women of TG women in women changing room (accepting or not having opinion), and a 33% acceptance in old women. ETA: interestingly it seems similar among gender by age. So the factor on rejection/acceptance is not gender, but age.
What do they they of sharing spaces with transgender men?

Everyone was up in arms when the transgender boy won the texas girls wrestling competition. That was going by everyone's arguments here about biology but there many of the same people seem to think it was wrong that girls had to wrestle against him.
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Old 7th August 2017, 11:09 AM   #608
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
A person (A) who is genetically male, and has a history of heterosexual male activity, dates a person who self-identifies as a woman (B) after meeting on an internet dating site. They get close and cuddly, and A discovers that B has a a full set of "a boy's dangly bits".

Does he get a refund, or just an interesting new experience?

Seriously ... the scenario regarding the spa, upthread, is a real consideration.
He gets a free murder under trans panic guidelines.
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Old 7th August 2017, 11:11 AM   #609
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Transgender people *believe* their sex doesn't match their gender.
Which is why the best thing they can do is kill themselves, that way normal people don't have to deal with them. It is like the disabled in that.
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Old 7th August 2017, 11:17 AM   #610
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To all the people who are freaked out about dating a woman with a penis, would you date a man with a vagina?

And the message is clear, it isn't that you want to keep trans women out of the ladies locker room, it is you want to keep all transgender people out of all locker rooms.
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Old 7th August 2017, 11:31 AM   #611
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Because said person asked you to.
The question is, why should you be *required* to. In the context of this discussion, required by a third party, with penalties for non compliance.

Because they asked you to? That might be enough to create a purely social obligation, out of common courtesy. But I don't know that it creates a government duty to compel you to observe that social obligation against your will.

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Old 7th August 2017, 12:11 PM   #612
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
To all the people who are freaked out about dating a woman with a penis, would you date a man with a vagina?
No. I'm a natural born male with a penis that only wants a natural born woman with a vagina. Does that make me a bigot too? How about anyone that does not want to date me? Are they bigots because they are only attracted to people not like me?

Look, I'm a pretty liberal guy. Especially with sexual issues. I believe everyone should do what ever makes them happy as long as they are not interfering with the rights of someone else.

This extreme left wing nonsense is just as bad a extreme right wing nonsense. It's like they are saying mind your own business, but at the same time telling everyone else how they should act and feel.
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Old 7th August 2017, 12:19 PM   #613
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
I would use the same type of catheter on a man or a woman.
Totally missing the point, and one that was covered in my post under "ftsoa". Jesus H Xhristos, were you so keen to demonstrate medical expertise that you didn't even read the post?

eta: my apologies - that was a nasty response. Heat-stressed here
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Old 7th August 2017, 12:23 PM   #614
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
No. I'm a natural born male with a penis that only wants a natural born woman with a vagina. Does that make me a bigot too? How about anyone that does not want to date me? Are they bigots because they are only attracted to people not like me?

Look, I'm a pretty liberal guy. Especially with sexual issues. I believe everyone should do what ever makes them happy as long as they are not interfering with the rights of someone else.

This extreme left wing nonsense is just as bad a extreme right wing nonsense. It's like they are saying mind your own business, but at the same time telling everyone else how they should act and feel.
*facepalm*

Nobody is making you date girls with dicks.

Seriously... is this what it's all about?
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Old 7th August 2017, 12:29 PM   #615
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Nobody is making you date girls with dicks.
Unless they don't announce their possession of a dick until you meet them? (pretty much my A+B dating scenario upthread there somewhere)

It's a bit like (but not too much ) when a dinner guest waits until they arrive to tell you they're vegan.
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Old 7th August 2017, 12:29 PM   #616
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Just to keep everyone on the same page:

Nobody (in this thread) is saying that you need to date trans-gendered people. If you want to, that's cool, but nobody (here) is going to call you a bigot if you say "no thanks" to a girl with a dick.

What trans-gendered people are asking for (at least what we're talking about in this thread) is that you kindly refer to them in the pronoun they chose, or not at all (at least to their face), and that you maybe allow them to use the bathroom/locker room that corresponds with the gender they are transitioning to.

All if it's not too bloody much to ask, of course.
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Old 7th August 2017, 12:30 PM   #617
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Unless they don't announce their possession of a dick until you meet them? (pretty much my A+B dating scenario upthread there somewhere)

It's a bit like (but not too much ) when a dinner guest waits until they arrive to tell you they're vegan.
Maybe by that time you're too into it to stop. Is that what's frightening you?
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Old 7th August 2017, 12:33 PM   #618
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Because it shows that trans men are not real men. Think of it worded like this

Real American
African American.

You see the problem.
Not really.

As a "Mexican-"American who never lived in Mexico (2nd time today this has come up!), I think X-American is a stupid thing to call someone. One is either Mexican or American. Maybe those with dual citizenship could logically be called Mexican-American. In any case, any citizen of the US is American and that really should be the end of it. Until we stop using these dumb hyphens to refer to each other, we are going to have problems with race and ethnicity.

As far as transmen, I wouldn't put it as whether or not they are "real" men. "Real," in this context, carries unnecessary connotations. If a man cried or worked as a nurse, I would never say they weren't "real" men, for a simple example. The social and cultural roles assigned to men and women are arbitrary and don't reflect the true diversity of the human species. So from a sociocultural outlook, transmen are as "real" as any man, IMHO. But from a biological outlook, no matter how many hormones they take or surgeries they undergo, a biological female will always be a biological female. Men don't have babies in that context and they never will. So strictly speaking, transmen are not in fact men.

So when we are speaking about biological function, we should never say that a man gave birth because it's just plain inaccurate. In hindsight, I should have paid more attention to the source. I got caught up in the deeper argument when in fact, it really wasn't warranted. Tabloids be tabloids -gotta generate them clicks.
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Old 7th August 2017, 12:33 PM   #619
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
No. I'm a natural born male with a penis that only wants a natural born woman with a vagina. Does that make me a bigot too? How about anyone that does not want to date me? Are they bigots because they are only attracted to people not like me?
It's ok, trans panic has you totally covered to get away with the murder. You don't have to worry about it, and really no one worries about trans women who get killed in such altercations.
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Old 7th August 2017, 12:37 PM   #620
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Not really.

As a "Mexican-"American who never lived in Mexico (2nd time today this has come up!), I think X-American is a stupid thing to call someone. One is either Mexican or American. Maybe those with dual citizenship could logically be called Mexican-American. In any case, any citizen of the US is American and that really should be the end of it. Until we stop using these dumb hyphens to refer to each other, we are going to have problems with race and ethnicity.
Exactly you are not an american, you are a mexican american. Just like the trans man is not a man only a transman.

American does not include mexican american and Man does not include transman simple really.

Other wise you have Men as a category that includes both cis men and trans men. Like American including white americans, african americans, mexican americans and that would be crazy.
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Old 7th August 2017, 12:41 PM   #621
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
*facepalm*

Nobody is making you date girls with dicks.

Seriously... is this what it's all about?
A question was asked and I answered.

Last edited by mike81; 7th August 2017 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 7th August 2017, 12:49 PM   #622
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Just to keep everyone on the same page:

Nobody (in this thread) is saying that you need to date trans-gendered people. If you want to, that's cool, but nobody (here) is going to call you a bigot if you say "no thanks" to a girl with a dick.
Why not? After all a transwoman is a woman, right, whether or not she has had her male parts removed? And what about after the operation? Now there can be no possible objection to dating her, unless you're some bigot who can't get over the "ick" factor.

Quote:
What trans-gendered people are asking for (at least what we're talking about in this thread) is that you kindly refer to them in the pronoun they chose, or not at all (at least to their face), and that you maybe allow them to use the bathroom/locker room that corresponds with the gender they are transitioning to.
And I think most of us are okay with them using the bathroom of the gender they are transitioning to, and fine with them using the locker room of the gender they have completed the transition to. But no, we are not fine with them using the locker room of the gender they have not completed the transition to.
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Old 7th August 2017, 12:53 PM   #623
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Why not? After all a transwoman is a woman, right, whether or not she has had her male parts removed? And what about after the operation? Now there can be no possible objection to dating her, unless you're some bigot who can't get over the "ick" factor.
The same reason I'm not making you date anyone else.


Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
And I think most of us are okay with them using the bathroom of the gender they are transitioning to, and fine with them using the locker room of the gender they have completed the transition to. But no, we are not fine with them using the locker room of the gender they have not completed the transition to.
Why not? What harm does it do to you?
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Old 7th August 2017, 01:03 PM   #624
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
The same reason I'm not making you date anyone else.




Why not? What harm does it do to you?
Maybe someone does not want their child exposed to genitals of the opposite sex? Maybe some grown adults don't want to?

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Old 7th August 2017, 01:04 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
Maybe someone does not want their child exposed to genitals of the opposite sex?
Then tell the kid not to oogle other people's genitals?

And if they do catch a glance of a willy, what harm do you imagine it would do to the child?
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Old 7th August 2017, 01:11 PM   #626
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
Maybe someone does not want their child exposed to genitals of the opposite sex? Maybe some grown adults don't want to?
And you are totally comfortable with transwomen in your locker room. It is clear you are not comfortable with trans men.

These arguments always seem disingenuous as there seems to be a discomfort with all trans people. Not simply those of the same gender.
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Old 7th August 2017, 01:11 PM   #627
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Just to keep everyone on the same page:

Nobody (in this thread) is saying that you need to date trans-gendered people. If you want to, that's cool, but nobody (here) is going to call you a bigot if you say "no thanks" to a girl with a dick.
I agree that nobody in this thread is doing that. But this conversation is also about what those in the transgendered community want from larger society.

Quote:
What trans-gendered people are asking for (at least what we're talking about in this thread) is that you kindly refer to them in the pronoun they chose, or not at all (at least to their face), and that you maybe allow them to use the bathroom/locker room that corresponds with the gender they are transitioning to.

All if it's not too bloody much to ask, of course.
But that does not reflect what some in the actual transgendered community is asking of us.

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/no-...ore-dating-you

http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/12/...iscriminatory/

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/07...sgender-women/

So yeah, we are being asked to "work through" our issues with dating a transgendered person.
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Old 7th August 2017, 01:16 PM   #628
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Maybe by that time you're too into it to stop. Is that what's frightening you?
I don't even begin to understand what you're saying here. Please explain.
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Old 7th August 2017, 01:22 PM   #629
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Exactly you are not an american, you are a mexican american. Just like the trans man is not a man only a transman.

American does not include mexican american and Man does not include transman simple really.

Other wise you have Men as a category that includes both cis men and trans men. Like American including white americans, african americans, mexican americans and that would be crazy.
On a sociocultural level, I mostly agree with you. Men does include transmen.

Biology, not so much.
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Old 7th August 2017, 01:27 PM   #630
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I agree that nobody in this thread is doing that. But this conversation is also about what those in the transgendered community want from larger society.


But that does not reflect what some in the actual transgendered community is asking of us.

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/no-...ore-dating-you

http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/12/...iscriminatory/

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/07...sgender-women/

So yeah, we are being asked to "work through" our issues with dating a transgendered person.
And think all they need to worry about is being assaulted and murdered. Totally feel for you.
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Old 7th August 2017, 01:28 PM   #631
xjx388
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I don't even begin to understand what you're saying here. Please explain.
Uke2se seems to be saying that if you were attracted to the transwoman enough to get to the sex stage and then you get un-attracted when you see the penis or find out they were born male, then maybe somewhere in your heart of hearts, you're afraid that you are homosexual.

Maybe we've had it wrong all this time: Maybe sexual attraction is learned and not innately biological. Guess we should start up the conversion therapy again!
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Old 7th August 2017, 01:37 PM   #632
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
This extreme left wing nonsense is just as bad a extreme right wing nonsense. It's like they are saying mind your own business, but at the same time telling everyone else how they should act and feel.
Hear, hear.

Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Then tell the kid not to oogle other people's genitals?

And if they do catch a glance of a willy, what harm do you imagine it would do to the child?
I'd say about as much harm, on average, as being told you're not a biological woman just because you believe that you are.
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Old 7th August 2017, 01:38 PM   #633
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Originally Posted by sylvan8798 View Post
Is discomfort or expectation of discomfort a reason to exclude a group of people from something carte blanche? It seems like we have, on occasion, rejected that idea. By "we" I mean our representative system or society in general, not people on this forum in general or specific.
We have also, on occasion, embraced that idea.

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Old 7th August 2017, 01:39 PM   #634
Belz...
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
On a sociocultural level, I mostly agree with you. Men does include transmen.

Biology, not so much.
Personally I don't see a need for the distinction unless we're talking about post-op trans-men.
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Old 7th August 2017, 02:02 PM   #635
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Uke2se seems to be saying that if you were attracted to the transwoman enough to get to the sex stage and then you get un-attracted when you see the penis or find out they were born male, then maybe somewhere in your heart of hearts, you're afraid that you are homosexual.

Maybe we've had it wrong all this time: Maybe sexual attraction is learned and not innately biological. Guess we should start up the conversion therapy again!
Nice!

There are certain people who seem to believe, or want it believed by others, that everybody is a bit gay but they just don't realize it. It somehow reinforces their own gayness and makes them feel more normal. I guess. Seems silly.

My step sister is gay but I don't know many other gay people so my experience is limited. I just don't see people really giving a crap about most of this stuff. We are talking about the fringe of the fringe.

I think the people causing most of the fuss are lawyers with an agenda.
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Old 7th August 2017, 02:04 PM   #636
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
There are certain people who seem to believe, or want it believed by others, that everybody is a bit gay but they just don't realize it. It somehow reinforces their own gayness and makes them feel more normal. I guess. Seems silly.
Everybody's a bit left-handed. That's how I sleep at night.
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Old 7th August 2017, 03:01 PM   #637
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Uke2se seems to be saying that if you were attracted to the transwoman enough to get to the sex stage and then you get un-attracted when you see the penis or find out they were born male, then maybe somewhere in your heart of hearts, you're afraid that you are homosexual.
Ah, I see. But no, that isn't it.

He (theoretically) was attracted to the head+shoulders photo on the dating website and the chat that ensued.

In person he noticed that his date was all the wrong shape for a 'biological woman' and had rather a deep voice. Plus a hint of 5 o'clock shadow. Pretty soon the mistake became clear and he delicately asked his date "ytf didn't you tell me????. I've driven 40 miles for this poxy useless date with a person whose genitals are ************ male, and I can't even picture getting excited by that. Just be honest next time, ffs. Good luck, you moron!"
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Old 7th August 2017, 03:11 PM   #638
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I think the people causing most of the fuss are lawyers with an agenda.
True. And it's also unsurpassed fodder for virtue signalers.
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Old 7th August 2017, 03:21 PM   #639
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Because it shows that trans men are not real men. Think of it worded like this

Real American
African American.

You see the problem.
but transmen are not real men. That's why they go through the whole trans thing in the first place.
If they were really the thing they wanted to be then they would not have to change a thing about themselves to get there.

Last edited by p0lka; 7th August 2017 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 7th August 2017, 04:15 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Because it shows that trans men are not real men. Think of it worded like this

Real American
African American.

You see the problem.
The problem is with your logic.

Forged Picasso
Real Picasso

There is, without question, a difference even with your mistaken use of the word "real" in your comparison. The issue is more accurately, and less inflammitorily, expressed this way:

Transman
Man

Once again there is an obvious difference.
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