[Continuation] Brexit: Now What? 9 Below Zero - Page 65

abaddon · 27th January 2020, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

That's an interesting issue. Seems to me the funds would need to be ring-fenced. There'll need to be a safeguard against misappropriation.

Great. What "ring-fences" has boris commited to? None.

Originally Posted by Vixen

In addition, if it now becomes a charitable donation rather than for a specific aim, then there is gift aid to be added on if you can, which'd mean getting a GA declaration from all those who donated. It'll need to give donors the option of a refund of their money.

Whee. And you fall for the distraction. Good luck. The team you elected could not figure their way out of a paper bag let alone negotiate a trade deal with a mollusc.

catsmate · 27th January 2020, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Vixen

It now knows what a narwhal tusk is.

Pity there are no narwhals in UK waters.

Steve · 27th January 2020, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Pity there are no narwhals in UK waters.

Give it time.

Darat · 27th January 2020, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Pity there are no narwhals in UK waters.

Now we are out of the EU we can get rid of those pesky EU regulations banning narwhals from UK waters.

Delphic Oracle · 27th January 2020, 05:23 PM

Reminds me of the Deepwater Horizon environmental response plan that discussed the impact on wildlife.

Someone noticed a lot of mentions of animals more familiar to an arctic climate. Sure enough large portions had been lifted right out of a report on a previous oil spill. The report as a whole was largely boilerplate pablum.

Nobody actually had to sit around, discuss, brainstorm, or research facts to generate that report. It wasn't just not intended to be taken seriously as an informative outlay, it flat out wasn't meant to be read, let alone ingested or processed by critical minds and people in positions of authority to make anything happen at all.

The Don · 28th January 2020, 02:32 AM

Last autumn's government "Get Ready for Brexit" Campaign has come in for criticism:

Quote:

A multi-million pound publicity blitz to prepare the public for leaving the EU appears to have had little impact, a spending watchdog has said.

The National Audit Office said £46m was spent on the "Get ready for Brexit" campaign ahead of the UK's expected departure at the end of last October.

Of course it's really difficult to prepare for something when we have no idea what it's going to be like.

It sounds to me like the government is gearing up to blame individuals and companies for failing to prepare effectively for Brexit when they run into problems.

Captain_Swoop · 28th January 2020, 03:45 AM

The Times thinks the European Court of Justice is in Strasbourg and puts this as a headline on its front page

"EU Demands it's Judges keep control after Brexit, Strasbourg would rule on future UK trade rights"

GlennB · 28th January 2020, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

It sounds to me like the government is gearing up to blame individuals and companies for failing to prepare effectively for Brexit when they run into problems.

You missed out the EU itself and remain voters. And the 10 Downing Street cat, the local road cleaner, bus drivers and school dinner ladies.

Vixen · 28th January 2020, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by abaddon

Does "it"?

What does "it" refer to? UKGov? Pretty clear it can't find bum with both hands. So what "it"?

The subject of the question:

"Does the UK even know what a fisheries department does?"

should adequately inform you as to what the 'it' in the answer refers to.

Vixen · 28th January 2020, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by abaddon

Great. What "ring-fences" has boris commited to? None.

Whee. And you fall for the distraction. Good luck. The team you elected could not figure their way out of a paper bag let alone negotiate a trade deal with a mollusc.

Not me, guv.

Vixen · 28th January 2020, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

The Times thinks the European Court of Justice is in Strasbourg and puts this as a headline on its front page

"EU Demands it's Judges keep control after Brexit, Strasbourg would rule on future UK trade rights"

Haha

It has confused the ECJ with the ECHR (human rights).

Oh well, nice to know even the TIMES can get it wrong (remembering the grief I got from this forum for mistakingly thinking Strasbourg was in Switzerland).

ECJ is in Luxemburg.

Vixen · 28th January 2020, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

You missed out the EU itself and remain voters. And the 10 Downing Street cat, the local road cleaner, bus drivers and school dinner ladies.

It's certainly taking the 'peace' with its offer of prosperity and friendship with all nations. Except the frogs and the krauts, of course.

The Don · 28th January 2020, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

The Times thinks the European Court of Justice is in Strasbourg and puts this as a headline on its front page

"EU Demands it's Judges keep control after Brexit, Strasbourg would rule on future UK trade rights"

For all it's exalted reputation as a newspaper, when push comes to shove it's still a Murdoch rag. IMO one should lower one's expectations regarding factual accuracy accordingly.

The Don · 28th January 2020, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by abaddon

Great. What "ring-fences" has boris commited to? None.

Whee. And you fall for the distraction. Good luck. The team you elected could not figure their way out of a paper bag let alone negotiate a trade deal with a mollusc.

Originally Posted by Vixen

Not me, guv.

To be fair to Vixen, it was me who was wondering whether a fund set up to restore the bongs to Big Ben for Brexit could seamlessly be diverted to fund Help for Heroes instead (though IMO that would be a better use for the money).

I haven't been sufficiently bothered to find out how the money was being raised. If, for example, I set up a GoFundMe ostensibly to pay for medical treatment and instead decide to spend it all on hookers and blow, do those who have donated have any come back ?

In the case of the bong campaign, the organisers have said that they were always clear that any excess money, or all money if the campaign was unsuccessful, would be donated to HfH. IMO it's a better result than wasting the money on useless bongs.

Darat · 28th January 2020, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Last autumn's government "Get Ready for Brexit" Campaign has come in for criticism:

Of course it's really difficult to prepare for something when we have no idea what it's going to be like.

It sounds to me like the government is gearing up to blame individuals and companies for failing to prepare effectively for Brexit when they run into problems.

Quite seriously, which campaign?

Darat · 28th January 2020, 05:50 AM

I genuinely am feeling very sad this week, I feel I am losing a hell of a lot with nothing in compensation. From Saturday I'll simply have less opportunities and less rights. Bummer.

Pixel42 · 28th January 2020, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

I haven't been sufficiently bothered to find out how the money was being raised. If, for example, I set up a GoFundMe ostensibly to pay for medical treatment and instead decide to spend it all on hookers and blow, do those who have donated have any come back ?

I'm now imagining a parallel, far superior, universe in which FoolMeWunz came out of his coma and did just that.

Originally Posted by Darat

I genuinely am feeling very sad this week, I feel I am losing a hell of a lot with nothing in compensation. From Saturday I'll simply have less opportunities and less rights. Bummer.

We're all poorer, not just financially, as a result of this insane act of self harm. I've bought an EU flag, which I plan to put in my window on Friday.

Dave Rogers · 28th January 2020, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

I've bought an EU flag, which I plan to put in my window on Friday.

I will do absolutely nothing to mark the date of the UK leaving the EU. Life will, most likely, just get a tiny bit ********, but I'll just carry on living the best life I can in the circumstances I'm faced with, and let that be my response.

Dave

Ian Osborne · 28th January 2020, 06:52 AM

There's a campaign to get Ode to Joy in the charts for Brexit. I didn't bother buying it.

The Don · 28th January 2020, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

I genuinely am feeling very sad this week, I feel I am losing a hell of a lot with nothing in compensation. From Saturday I'll simply have less opportunities and less rights. Bummer.

I'll have fewer opportunities and fewer rights but the sentiment's the same.

Of course we'll be in a transition period for most, if not all, of 2020 so we shouldn't expect to see any changes, except perhaps not being able to go through the "EU Passports" line on our European trips.

This will allow Brexiteers to assert that any concerns about negative consequences are just Project Fear ^TM, as they have for the past three years or so. The real problems will start to surface in 2021 at which point they are far enough away from the referendum to be disconnected in peoples minds.

Even then I think it'll be a case of things gradually getting worse rather than OMFG DISASTER !!1!!!!11!!!!!

In 15/20 years instead of being economically on a par with Germany, The Netherlands and Scandinavia, we'll be on a par with Spain, Portugal and the more successful former Eastern-bloc countries. There won't be a sudden economic collapse, just an ongoing 1% or so brake on growth.

Belgian thought · 28th January 2020, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

I genuinely am feeling very sad this week, I feel I am losing a hell of a lot with nothing in compensation. From Saturday I'll simply have less opportunities and less rights. Bummer.

I lived most of my childhood, including schooling and university, and worked over 25 years in the UK. I am now in Spain and at my age, cannot realistically go back to live or retire in the UK. I feel very cut off.

My biggest worry for Friday is the timing. 11 PM, pub closing time (or near enough), on the first monthly payday after Christmas.

There were reports of increased racial tension and attacks after the referendum results. As of the 31st it becomes a fact and I fear for some very nasty behaviour.

catsmate · 28th January 2020, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Steve

Give it time.

Originally Posted by Darat

Now we are out of the EU we can get rid of those pesky EU regulations banning narwhals from UK waters.

Yes, BoJo's take on climate change will certainly help; once the Gulf Stream decreases significantly UK waters will be far more suited to narwhals.
There may be other consequences however.

GlennB · 28th January 2020, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Belgian thought

I lived most of my childhood, including schooling and university, and worked over 25 years in the UK. I am now in Spain and at my age, cannot realistically go back to live or retire in the UK. I feel very cut off.

I can only wish you the best of luck. What a mess.

Originally Posted by Belgian thought

My biggest worry for Friday is the timing. 11 PM, pub closing time (or near enough), on the first monthly payday after Christmas.

There were reports of increased racial tension and attacks after the referendum results. As of the 31st it becomes a fact and I fear for some very nasty behaviour.

Good point. Might be a night for a lot of people to stay at home. Possibly several nights

In other news, I see that post-Brexit talks are due to start on March 3rd, so there's 1/11th of the time available straight down the toilet.

The Don · 28th January 2020, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

In other news, I see that post-Brexit talks are due to start on March 3rd, so there's 1/11th of the time available straight down the toilet.

Only if the intent is to have a negotiated trade deal.

IMO the intent is to half-heartedly try to engage the EU but only on an "all the benefits of and none of the responsibilities of EU membership" basis. If the EU were to suddenly cave and accept all of the UK's demands then so much the better. If, as is far more likely, the talks fail then the UK crashes out of the EU with no deal, as the architects of Brexit want.

Losing 1/11 of the available negotiation time is ideal if the objective is no-deal.

ponderingturtle · 28th January 2020, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Only if the intent is to have a negotiated trade deal.

IMO the intent is to half-heartedly try to engage the EU but only on an "all the benefits of and none of the responsibilities of EU membership" basis. If the EU were to suddenly cave and accept all of the UK's demands then so much the better. If, as is far more likely, the talks fail then the UK crashes out of the EU with no deal, as the architects of Brexit want.

Losing 1/11 of the available negotiation time is ideal if the objective is no-deal.

If the people wanted a deal, Boris Johnson wouldn't be prime minister. They have elections and everything and chose Johnson and no deal.

P.J. Denyer · 28th January 2020, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

I genuinely am feeling very sad this week, I feel I am losing a hell of a lot with nothing in compensation. From Saturday I'll simply have less opportunities and less rights. Bummer.

Yeah I agree. Some of my best customers are European citizens, one of them (who's Polish) interviewed for an Italian company today, Brexit has cost my wife's job and a large part of my income from my second job, I'm worried now that I'm going to lose these customers from my own little business and I honestly can't see we're getting anything worthwhile in return...

abaddon · 28th January 2020, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

Yeah I agree. Some of my best customers are European citizens, one of them (who's Polish) interviewed for an Italian company today, Brexit has cost my wife's job and a large part of my income from my second job, I'm worried now that I'm going to lose these customers from my own little business and I honestly can't see we're getting anything worthwhile in return...

You are getting "sovereignty". And you can chuck that pole out of the country. Isn't that nice?

jimbob · 28th January 2020, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Last autumn's government "Get Ready for Brexit" Campaign has come in for criticism:

Quote:

A multi-million pound publicity blitz to prepare the public for leaving the EU appears to have had little impact, a spending watchdog has said.

The National Audit Office said £46m was spent on the "Get ready for Brexit" campaign ahead of the UK's expected departure at the end of last October.

Of course it's really difficult to prepare for something when we have no idea what it's going to be like.

It sounds to me like the government is gearing up to blame individuals and companies for failing to prepare effectively for Brexit when they run into problems.

From Scrutable.science (former badscience)
https://scrutable.science/viewtopic.php?p=16830#p16830

Originally Posted by Little waster

£46m "Get Ready for Brexit" campaign had "little effect" says NAO.

Quote:

“Not undertaking the campaign would have risked significant and unnecessary disruption to businesses and to people’s lives,” a spokesperson for the cabinet office said.

I leave the punchline as an exercise for the reader ...

Vixen · 28th January 2020, 11:35 AM

I'll be drinking some sovrin tea on Friday and thinking of you all in the UK. So glad I got away. Funny thing is, I rarely bothered with a full English breakfast before but now I eat it every day, ever since discovering 'Englanti/Engelsk' bacon in the supermarkets with a union jack background on the packet.

ceptimus · 28th January 2020, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

In other news, I see that post-Brexit talks are due to start on March 3rd, so there's 1/11th of the time available straight down the toilet.

It's the EU that are delaying the trade talks. The UK wants to begin them immediately - in fact the UK has wanted to begin them for the last three years or so, but the EU's self-imposed rules prevented that.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4339386.html

jimbob · 28th January 2020, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by ceptimus

It's the EU that are delaying the trade talks. The UK wants to begin them immediately - in fact the UK has wanted to begin them for the last three years or so, but the EU's self-imposed rules prevented that.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4339386.html

Who insisted that there would be no further extension, whilst giving far less time than it took Canada, say, to negotiate a simpler trade deal with the EU?

Anyway - I thought the UK England held all the cards, so can't Johnson simply demonstrate his undoubted superiority and insist on his preferred terms?

Captain_Swoop · 28th January 2020, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer

Yeah I agree. Some of my best customers are European citizens, one of them (who's Polish) interviewed for an Italian company today, Brexit has cost my wife's job and a large part of my income from my second job, I'm worried now that I'm going to lose these customers from my own little business and I honestly can't see we're getting anything worthwhile in return...

Blue Passports made in France!

SezMe · 28th January 2020, 05:39 PM

A thought just occurred to me: Chunnel. How will Brexit affect its operation, if at all?

Skeptic Ginger · 28th January 2020, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Now we are out of the EU we can get rid of those pesky EU regulations banning narwhals from UK waters.

So you've brexited now? I didn't see the fireworks and parties. Did they do it quietly in the night?

And the big question is, why couldn't this have been done sooner?

Mojo · 28th January 2020, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Now we are out of the EU we can get rid of those pesky EU regulations banning narwhals from UK waters.

Yes, but they’ll most likely be caught by the migrant salary threshold. How many narwhals are going to be earning over £30,000 a year?

Mojo · 28th January 2020, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by The Don

Last autumn's government "Get Ready for Brexit" Campaign has come in for criticism:

Of course it's really difficult to prepare for something when we have no idea what it's going to be like.

It sounds to me like the government is gearing up to blame individuals and companies for failing to prepare effectively for Brexit when they run into problems.

This would be the government that ran a “get ready for Brexit” campaign while claiming that everything would be absolutely fine after Brexit...

Lothian · 29th January 2020, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by SezMe

A thought just occurred to me: Chunnel. How will Brexit affect its operation, if at all?

Customs checks will be needed. Otherwise probably not much from a passenger point of view. Demand is likely to be lower as EU UK trade is likely to be lower.

Pixel42 · 29th January 2020, 01:09 AM

MEP Seb Dance is collecting signatures for an open letter to the EU.

https://actionnetwork.org/forms/sign...e=direct_link&

Quote:

To Ursula Von Der Leyen (President of the European Commission), Charles Michel (President of the European Council), Guy Verhofstadt MEP (European Parliament's Brexit Coordinator), David Sassoli MEP (President of the European Parliament) and all our other friends across the EU,

I am writing to you on behalf of all those people in the UK for whom 31 January will be a day, not of celebration, but of anger and grief.

Hardline Brexiteers like Mark Francois and Nigel Farage have received a lot of coverage for their plans to celebrate the day we leave the EU - the most ludicrous suggestion being that Big Ben should ring to mark the occasion. Millions of us in the UK will not be celebrating Brexit, but will be thinking of everything we have lost by leaving, and counting down the days until we rejoin the EU.

Britain is taking a sabbatical. We now have the largest and most active pro-European movement on the continent, and that will not disappear on 31 January. There are still millions of us who know that the great challenges of our time can only be faced by working in partnership with our closest friends and neighbours. Please keep the door open for us to return.

The Don · 29th January 2020, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

This would be the government that ran a “get ready for Brexit” campaign while claiming that everything would be absolutely fine after Brexit...

Of course everything will be fine so long as people and companies are positioned to take advantage of the fabulous opportunities that Brexit presents.

Only those companies and individuals who failed to prepare properly for Brexit will have suffered. Those who have taken the necessary precautions, a handful of hedge fund managers and messers Bamford and Dyson, will have turned out to to have done very nicely indeed.

It's hardly the government's fault that not everyone in the UK is a multi-millionaire with a global company which stands to gain from the low-tax low regulation post-Brexit environment. The government can't be expected to mollycoddle every single person who isn't a billionaire (or who doesn't benefit from a billionaire's largesse like our current Prime Minister has for the last three decades). Honesty, if people cannot be bothered to take charge of their own financial affairs, it's their look-out.

Just get into the chlorinated chicken processing or hazardous waste disposal industries and you'll be coining it in.

Mojo · 29th January 2020, 01:33 AM

The government was also running the “Get ready for Brexit” campaign while also having a policy of “just getting Brexit done” and sorting out the details afterwards. If they weren’t taking any notice of their own publicity, why would they expect anyone else to?

27th January 2020, 03:26 PM	#2561
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 21,300	Originally Posted by Vixen That's an interesting issue. Seems to me the funds would need to be ring-fenced. There'll need to be a safeguard against misappropriation. Great. What "ring-fences" has boris commited to? None. Originally Posted by Vixen In addition, if it now becomes a charitable donation rather than for a specific aim, then there is gift aid to be added on if you can, which'd mean getting a GA declaration from all those who donated. It'll need to give donors the option of a refund of their money. Whee. And you fall for the distraction. Good luck. The team you elected could not figure their way out of a paper bag let alone negotiate a trade deal with a mollusc.
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...

27th January 2020, 03:33 PM	#2562
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,864	Originally Posted by Vixen It now knows what a narwhal tusk is. Pity there are no narwhals in UK waters.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

27th January 2020, 03:36 PM	#2563
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 8,417	Originally Posted by catsmate Pity there are no narwhals in UK waters. Give it time.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

27th January 2020, 03:40 PM	#2564
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,021	Originally Posted by catsmate Pity there are no narwhals in UK waters. Now we are out of the EU we can get rid of those pesky EU regulations banning narwhals from UK waters.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

28th January 2020, 03:45 AM	#2567
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,899	The Times thinks the European Court of Justice is in Strasbourg and puts this as a headline on its front page "EU Demands it's Judges keep control after Brexit, Strasbourg would rule on future UK trade rights"
	Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 28th January 2020 at 03:46 AM.

27th January 2020, 05:23 PM	#2565
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 5,358	Reminds me of the Deepwater Horizon environmental response plan that discussed the impact on wildlife. Someone noticed a lot of mentions of animals more familiar to an arctic climate. Sure enough large portions had been lifted right out of a report on a previous oil spill. The report as a whole was largely boilerplate pablum. Nobody actually had to sit around, discuss, brainstorm, or research facts to generate that report. It wasn't just not intended to be taken seriously as an informative outlay, it flat out wasn't meant to be read, let alone ingested or processed by critical minds and people in positions of authority to make anything happen at all.

28th January 2020, 02:32 AM	#2566
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,352	Last autumn's government "Get Ready for Brexit" Campaign has come in for criticism: Quote: A multi-million pound publicity blitz to prepare the public for leaving the EU appears to have had little impact, a spending watchdog has said. The National Audit Office said £46m was spent on the "Get ready for Brexit" campaign ahead of the UK's expected departure at the end of last October. Of course it's really difficult to prepare for something when we have no idea what it's going to be like. It sounds to me like the government is gearing up to blame individuals and companies for failing to prepare effectively for Brexit when they run into problems.

28th January 2020, 03:57 AM	#2568
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Usk, Wales Posts: 26,404	Originally Posted by The Don It sounds to me like the government is gearing up to blame individuals and companies for failing to prepare effectively for Brexit when they run into problems. You missed out the EU itself and remain voters. And the 10 Downing Street cat, the local road cleaner, bus drivers and school dinner ladies.
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

28th January 2020, 04:13 AM	#2569
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 20,848	Originally Posted by abaddon Does "it"? What does "it" refer to? UKGov? Pretty clear it can't find bum with both hands. So what "it"? The subject of the question: "Does the UK even know what a fisheries department does?" should adequately inform you as to what the 'it' in the answer refers to.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

28th January 2020, 04:16 AM	#2570
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 20,848	Originally Posted by abaddon Great. What "ring-fences" has boris commited to? None. Whee. And you fall for the distraction. Good luck. The team you elected could not figure their way out of a paper bag let alone negotiate a trade deal with a mollusc. Not me, guv.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

28th January 2020, 04:23 AM	#2571
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 20,848	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop The Times thinks the European Court of Justice is in Strasbourg and puts this as a headline on its front page "EU Demands it's Judges keep control after Brexit, Strasbourg would rule on future UK trade rights" Haha It has confused the ECJ with the ECHR (human rights). Oh well, nice to know even the TIMES can get it wrong (remembering the grief I got from this forum for mistakingly thinking Strasbourg was in Switzerland). ECJ is in Luxemburg.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

28th January 2020, 04:25 AM	#2572
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 20,848	Originally Posted by GlennB You missed out the EU itself and remain voters. And the 10 Downing Street cat, the local road cleaner, bus drivers and school dinner ladies. It's certainly taking the 'peace' with its offer of prosperity and friendship with all nations. Except the frogs and the krauts, of course.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

28th January 2020, 04:32 AM	#2573
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,352	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop The Times thinks the European Court of Justice is in Strasbourg and puts this as a headline on its front page "EU Demands it's Judges keep control after Brexit, Strasbourg would rule on future UK trade rights" For all it's exalted reputation as a newspaper, when push comes to shove it's still a Murdoch rag. IMO one should lower one's expectations regarding factual accuracy accordingly.

28th January 2020, 04:42 AM	#2574
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,352	Originally Posted by abaddon Great. What "ring-fences" has boris commited to? None. Whee. And you fall for the distraction. Good luck. The team you elected could not figure their way out of a paper bag let alone negotiate a trade deal with a mollusc. Originally Posted by Vixen Not me, guv. To be fair to Vixen, it was me who was wondering whether a fund set up to restore the bongs to Big Ben for Brexit could seamlessly be diverted to fund Help for Heroes instead (though IMO that would be a better use for the money). I haven't been sufficiently bothered to find out how the money was being raised. If, for example, I set up a GoFundMe ostensibly to pay for medical treatment and instead decide to spend it all on hookers and blow, do those who have donated have any come back ? In the case of the bong campaign, the organisers have said that they were always clear that any excess money, or all money if the campaign was unsuccessful, would be donated to HfH. IMO it's a better result than wasting the money on useless bongs.

28th January 2020, 05:31 AM	#2575
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,021	Originally Posted by The Don Last autumn's government "Get Ready for Brexit" Campaign has come in for criticism: Of course it's really difficult to prepare for something when we have no idea what it's going to be like. It sounds to me like the government is gearing up to blame individuals and companies for failing to prepare effectively for Brexit when they run into problems. Quite seriously, which campaign?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

28th January 2020, 05:50 AM	#2576
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,021	I genuinely am feeling very sad this week, I feel I am losing a hell of a lot with nothing in compensation. From Saturday I'll simply have less opportunities and less rights. Bummer.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

28th January 2020, 06:30 AM	#2577
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 13,010	Originally Posted by The Don I haven't been sufficiently bothered to find out how the money was being raised. If, for example, I set up a GoFundMe ostensibly to pay for medical treatment and instead decide to spend it all on hookers and blow, do those who have donated have any come back ? I'm now imagining a parallel, far superior, universe in which FoolMeWunz came out of his coma and did just that. Originally Posted by Darat I genuinely am feeling very sad this week, I feel I am losing a hell of a lot with nothing in compensation. From Saturday I'll simply have less opportunities and less rights. Bummer. We're all poorer, not just financially, as a result of this insane act of self harm. I've bought an EU flag, which I plan to put in my window on Friday.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

28th January 2020, 06:46 AM	#2578
Dave Rogers Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD Posts: 32,367	Originally Posted by Pixel42 I've bought an EU flag, which I plan to put in my window on Friday. I will do absolutely nothing to mark the date of the UK leaving the EU. Life will, most likely, just get a tiny bit ********, but I'll just carry on living the best life I can in the circumstances I'm faced with, and let that be my response. Dave
	__________________ There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021

28th January 2020, 06:52 AM	#2579
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,234	There's a campaign to get Ode to Joy in the charts for Brexit. I didn't bother buying it.
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

28th January 2020, 07:11 AM	#2580
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,352	Originally Posted by Darat I genuinely am feeling very sad this week, I feel I am losing a hell of a lot with nothing in compensation. From Saturday I'll simply have less opportunities and less rights. Bummer. I'll have fewer opportunities and fewer rights but the sentiment's the same. Of course we'll be in a transition period for most, if not all, of 2020 so we shouldn't expect to see any changes, except perhaps not being able to go through the "EU Passports" line on our European trips. This will allow Brexiteers to assert that any concerns about negative consequences are just Project Fear ^TM, as they have for the past three years or so. The real problems will start to surface in 2021 at which point they are far enough away from the referendum to be disconnected in peoples minds. Even then I think it'll be a case of things gradually getting worse rather than OMFG DISASTER !!1!!!!11!!!!! In 15/20 years instead of being economically on a par with Germany, The Netherlands and Scandinavia, we'll be on a par with Spain, Portugal and the more successful former Eastern-bloc countries. There won't be a sudden economic collapse, just an ongoing 1% or so brake on growth.

28th January 2020, 08:10 AM	#2581
Belgian thought Master Poster Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,315	Originally Posted by Darat I genuinely am feeling very sad this week, I feel I am losing a hell of a lot with nothing in compensation. From Saturday I'll simply have less opportunities and less rights. Bummer. I lived most of my childhood, including schooling and university, and worked over 25 years in the UK. I am now in Spain and at my age, cannot realistically go back to live or retire in the UK. I feel very cut off. My biggest worry for Friday is the timing. 11 PM, pub closing time (or near enough), on the first monthly payday after Christmas. There were reports of increased racial tension and attacks after the referendum results. As of the 31st it becomes a fact and I fear for some very nasty behaviour.
	__________________ ... er, that's it

28th January 2020, 08:29 AM	#2582
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,864	Originally Posted by Steve Give it time. Originally Posted by Darat Now we are out of the EU we can get rid of those pesky EU regulations banning narwhals from UK waters. Yes, BoJo's take on climate change will certainly help; once the Gulf Stream decreases significantly UK waters will be far more suited to narwhals. There may be other consequences however.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

28th January 2020, 09:00 AM	#2583
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Usk, Wales Posts: 26,404	Originally Posted by Belgian thought I lived most of my childhood, including schooling and university, and worked over 25 years in the UK. I am now in Spain and at my age, cannot realistically go back to live or retire in the UK. I feel very cut off. I can only wish you the best of luck. What a mess. Originally Posted by Belgian thought My biggest worry for Friday is the timing. 11 PM, pub closing time (or near enough), on the first monthly payday after Christmas. There were reports of increased racial tension and attacks after the referendum results. As of the 31st it becomes a fact and I fear for some very nasty behaviour. Good point. Might be a night for a lot of people to stay at home. Possibly several nights In other news, I see that post-Brexit talks are due to start on March 3rd, so there's 1/11th of the time available straight down the toilet.
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

28th January 2020, 09:09 AM	#2584
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,352	Originally Posted by GlennB In other news, I see that post-Brexit talks are due to start on March 3rd, so there's 1/11th of the time available straight down the toilet. Only if the intent is to have a negotiated trade deal. IMO the intent is to half-heartedly try to engage the EU but only on an "all the benefits of and none of the responsibilities of EU membership" basis. If the EU were to suddenly cave and accept all of the UK's demands then so much the better. If, as is far more likely, the talks fail then the UK crashes out of the EU with no deal, as the architects of Brexit want. Losing 1/11 of the available negotiation time is ideal if the objective is no-deal.

28th January 2020, 09:35 AM	#2585
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,461	Originally Posted by The Don Only if the intent is to have a negotiated trade deal. IMO the intent is to half-heartedly try to engage the EU but only on an "all the benefits of and none of the responsibilities of EU membership" basis. If the EU were to suddenly cave and accept all of the UK's demands then so much the better. If, as is far more likely, the talks fail then the UK crashes out of the EU with no deal, as the architects of Brexit want. Losing 1/11 of the available negotiation time is ideal if the objective is no-deal. If the people wanted a deal, Boris Johnson wouldn't be prime minister. They have elections and everything and chose Johnson and no deal.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

28th January 2020, 10:13 AM	#2586
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,842	Originally Posted by Darat I genuinely am feeling very sad this week, I feel I am losing a hell of a lot with nothing in compensation. From Saturday I'll simply have less opportunities and less rights. Bummer. Yeah I agree. Some of my best customers are European citizens, one of them (who's Polish) interviewed for an Italian company today, Brexit has cost my wife's job and a large part of my income from my second job, I'm worried now that I'm going to lose these customers from my own little business and I honestly can't see we're getting anything worthwhile in return...
P.J. Denyer Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,842	__________________ "I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills

28th January 2020, 11:18 AM	#2587
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 21,300	Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer Yeah I agree. Some of my best customers are European citizens, one of them (who's Polish) interviewed for an Italian company today, Brexit has cost my wife's job and a large part of my income from my second job, I'm worried now that I'm going to lose these customers from my own little business and I honestly can't see we're getting anything worthwhile in return... You are getting "sovereignty". And you can chuck that pole out of the country. Isn't that nice?
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...

28th January 2020, 11:20 AM	#2588
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 22,803	Originally Posted by The Don Last autumn's government "Get Ready for Brexit" Campaign has come in for criticism: Quote: A multi-million pound publicity blitz to prepare the public for leaving the EU appears to have had little impact, a spending watchdog has said. The National Audit Office said £46m was spent on the "Get ready for Brexit" campaign ahead of the UK's expected departure at the end of last October. Of course it's really difficult to prepare for something when we have no idea what it's going to be like. It sounds to me like the government is gearing up to blame individuals and companies for failing to prepare effectively for Brexit when they run into problems. From Scrutable.science (former badscience) https://scrutable.science/viewtopic.php?p=16830#p16830 Originally Posted by Little waster £46m "Get Ready for Brexit" campaign had "little effect" says NAO. Quote: “Not undertaking the campaign would have risked significant and unnecessary disruption to businesses and to people’s lives,” a spokesperson for the cabinet office said. I leave the punchline as an exercise for the reader ...
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending

28th January 2020, 11:35 AM	#2589
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 20,848	I'll be drinking some sovrin tea on Friday and thinking of you all in the UK. So glad I got away. Funny thing is, I rarely bothered with a full English breakfast before but now I eat it every day, ever since discovering 'Englanti/Engelsk' bacon in the supermarkets with a union jack background on the packet.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

28th January 2020, 11:41 AM	#2590
ceptimus puzzler Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 6,460	Originally Posted by GlennB In other news, I see that post-Brexit talks are due to start on March 3rd, so there's 1/11th of the time available straight down the toilet. It's the EU that are delaying the trade talks. The UK wants to begin them immediately - in fact the UK has wanted to begin them for the last three years or so, but the EU's self-imposed rules prevented that. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4339386.html
ceptimus puzzler Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 6,460

28th January 2020, 11:59 AM	#2591
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 22,803	Originally Posted by ceptimus It's the EU that are delaying the trade talks. The UK wants to begin them immediately - in fact the UK has wanted to begin them for the last three years or so, but the EU's self-imposed rules prevented that. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4339386.html Who insisted that there would be no further extension, whilst giving far less time than it took Canada, say, to negotiate a simpler trade deal with the EU? Anyway - I thought the UK England held all the cards, so can't Johnson simply demonstrate his undoubted superiority and insist on his preferred terms?
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending

28th January 2020, 02:13 PM	#2592
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,899	Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer Yeah I agree. Some of my best customers are European citizens, one of them (who's Polish) interviewed for an Italian company today, Brexit has cost my wife's job and a large part of my income from my second job, I'm worried now that I'm going to lose these customers from my own little business and I honestly can't see we're getting anything worthwhile in return... Blue Passports made in France!

28th January 2020, 05:39 PM	#2593
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 24,982	A thought just occurred to me: Chunnel. How will Brexit affect its operation, if at all?

28th January 2020, 05:54 PM	#2594
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,969	Originally Posted by Darat Now we are out of the EU we can get rid of those pesky EU regulations banning narwhals from UK waters. So you've brexited now? I didn't see the fireworks and parties. Did they do it quietly in the night? And the big question is, why couldn't this have been done sooner?

28th January 2020, 10:01 PM	#2595
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,760	Originally Posted by Darat Now we are out of the EU we can get rid of those pesky EU regulations banning narwhals from UK waters. Yes, but they’ll most likely be caught by the migrant salary threshold. How many narwhals are going to be earning over £30,000 a year?
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky