[Continuation] Brexit: Now What? 9 Below Zero - Page 76

Lukraak_Sisser · 19th February 2020, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...te-citizenship

This is what's called having your cake and eating it too. British people really have an inflated sense of importance.

As others have said, I'm sure the EU would allow that, provided the UK gives the same rights to EU citizens.

But the current UK government, sorry, Dominic Cummings has made clear he does not want that. It must be great to replace lots of unelected bureacrats with a single one.

The Don · 19th February 2020, 12:36 AM

The government has announced its points-based immigration system with no allowance for low paid (which implies low skilled but IMO that's often a nonsense) workers.

Quote:

Low-skilled workers would not get visas under post-Brexit immigration plans unveiled by the government.

It is urging employers to "move away" from relying on "cheap labour" from Europe and invest in retaining staff and developing automation technology.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51550421

Of course automating away the low-skilled jobs will hit many of those people who voted for Brexit - those left behind in an economy which is more skills driven - whilst rewarding those with higher skills.

Industries which rely on large numbers of low paid (but not necessarily low skilled) workers such as agriculture, food processing and social care are naturally up in arms. Whilst the Porkmaster 3000 may be able to turn pigs into ham and bacon, there isn't a similar machine who can look after Auntie Doris in her care home.

It seems that labour costs will rise in the UK which in turn will make UK businesses less competitive both at home and abroad. A lot of the cost in the food we buy in the supermarket are the labour costs of harvesting and processing it. If labour becomes more expensive then the costs of providing that labour and/or automating it will be passed onto the consumer.

If the government is serious about tariff-free trade then this means that UK producers will lose out to cheaper EU produced goods. If it isn't and protectionist tariffs are introduced then exports will suffer and the UK consumer will have to bear the additional costs.

Those people who will be hit hardest will be those who can afford the additional costs least well, the low paid and retirees on low and/or fixed incomes - many of whom voted in favour of Brexit.

Garrison · 19th February 2020, 04:26 AM

Well I assume the intention is to strip away rights so all those people who lose their jobs when various industries pack up and move to Europe have no choice but to take jobs picking fruit, cleaning hospitals, etc. or end up sleeping on the streets.

The Don · 19th February 2020, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Garrison

Well I assume the intention is to strip away rights so all those people who lose their jobs when various industries pack up and move to Europe have no choice but to take jobs picking fruit, cleaning hospitals, etc. or end up sleeping on the streets.

That would be a plan, and one which would unfortunately end up hurting those who, because they felt left behind by changes to the economy and/or the effects of austerity, voted in favour of Brexit.

There would have to be a mass migration of people from areas of high unemployment to areas where there is high demand for labour which would mean that all the complaints that led to the Brexit vote; a shortage of local services, a lack of housing stock, pressure on the NHS and school places; would still be in place in those Brexit-voting areas.

This presupposes that a family from the Welsh valleys would be willing to take seasonal agricultural work hundreds of miles away. There's a reason why so much of the seasonal work is done by young people with few or no ties.

KDLarsen · 19th February 2020, 05:56 AM

Priti Patel was on BBC radio, arguing that the loss of low skill immigrants would be offset by companies training the large proportion of British 16-64 year olds who are not 'economically active'.

When it was put to her, that most of those are either students, long-term unemployed, retired, or with caring responsibilities, and that the UK is at almost full employment, she doubled down, insisting that there are 8 million 'non-economically active' available and ready for training.

This isn't going to end well, is it?

abaddon · 19th February 2020, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

Priti Patel was on BBC radio, arguing that the loss of low skill immigrants would be offset by companies training the large proportion of British 16-64 year olds who are not 'economically active'.

When it was put to her, that most of those are either students, long-term unemployed, retired, or with caring responsibilities, and that the UK is at almost full employment, she doubled down, insisting that there are 8 million 'non-economically active' available and ready for training.

This isn't going to end well, is it?

Re-education camps? Forced labour?

Seems familiar.

The Don · 19th February 2020, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

Priti Patel was on BBC radio, arguing that the loss of low skill immigrants would be offset by companies training the large proportion of British 16-64 year olds who are not 'economically active'.

When it was put to her, that most of those are either students, long-term unemployed, retired, or with caring responsibilities, and that the UK is at almost full employment, she doubled down, insisting that there are 8 million 'non-economically active' available and ready for training.

This isn't going to end well, is it?

Even if you ignore the fact that a significant proportion (most ?) of the 8 million economically inactive because they are in education or training, are disabled or otherwise unable to work, have retired and so on - are these people in the right place ?

Is someone in their late 50's who has a house in the Welsh valleys and who isn't in the best physical health really going to relocate themselves and their dependants to Lincolnshire for six weeks' casual labour picking cabbages for minimum wage ?

If so how will they get there ? Where will they live while they are there ? Will people really have the skills - and attitude - to perform these allegedly low-skill jobs ?

It's going to end as expected, with a scrapping of workers' rights and an evisceration of the welfare state. Employers will be able to hire and fire at will, claiming any benefits other than the retirement pension will be nigh-on impossible and the government will have recreated the underclass whose exploitation provided the grease for the Industrial Revolution.

Looks like the architects of Brexit will get all their wishes.

KDLarsen · 19th February 2020, 06:32 AM

Then again, probably just as much sheer incompetence. Some real wonder stories coming out of the Home Office, such as that of a 101 year old being asked to have his parents(!) sign off on his birth certificate. Yes indeed, a Y2K bug in 2020...

The Don · 19th February 2020, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

Then again, probably just as much sheer incompetence

It's typical Priti Patel tbh. Given a talking point she simply repeats it - or gets it wrong repeatedly

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

- regardless of points raised or how irrelevant subsequent conversation has made it

Pixel42 · 19th February 2020, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Looks like the architects of Brexit will get all their wishes.

You have to admit they've played an absolute blinder. They've gone from the Tory party's crackpot right wing, whose silence Cameron bought in the 2015 election by agreeing to the referendum so their extreme views wouldn't scupper his chance of re-election, to total control of their party and the country. They now have five years to do whatever the **** they want to maximise their own personal wealth, which was always their one and only priority.

The Don · 19th February 2020, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

You have to admit they've played an absolute blinder. They've gone from the Tory party's crackpot right wing, whose silence Cameron bought in the 2015 election by agreeing to the referendum so their extreme views wouldn't scupper his chance of re-election, to total control of their party and the country. They now have five years to do whatever the **** they want to maximise their own personal wealth, which was always their one and only priority.

The only thing I'd disagree with is that I think that they'll have a generation or more to do whatever they want, not just 5 years. The next part of the project is to have a managed Scottish Independence and Irish reunification so as to ensure a Conservative Majority in Westminster for the foreseeable future.

I'm hoping that Mrs Don and I are wealthy enough to be the "right " side of the economic chasm when it opens up. Sadly although we're "very comfortably off", I think we're a long way off.

catsmate · 19th February 2020, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

The government has announced its points-based immigration system with no allowance for low paid (which implies low skilled but IMO that's often a nonsense) workers.

Meh, not unexpected. Using illegals will be even cheaper....

Originally Posted by The Don

Of course automating away the low-skilled jobs will hit many of those people who voted for Brexit - those left behind in an economy which is more skills driven - whilst rewarding those with higher skills.

True. Though I suspect that the irony will be lost on the D³ crowd.

Originally Posted by The Don

...there isn't a similar machine who can look after Auntie Doris in her care home.

Actually there is. Meet Stevie.

Originally Posted by The Don

It seems that labour costs will rise in the UK which in turn will make UK businesses less competitive both at home and abroad. A lot of the cost in the food we buy in the supermarket are the labour costs of harvesting and processing it. If labour becomes more expensive then the costs of providing that labour and/or automating it will be passed onto the consumer.

If the government is serious about tariff-free trade then this means that UK producers will lose out to cheaper EU produced goods. If it isn't and protectionist tariffs are introduced then exports will suffer and the UK consumer will have to bear the additional costs.

Those people who will be hit hardest will be those who can afford the additional costs least well, the low paid and retirees on low and/or fixed incomes - many of whom voted in favour of Brexit.

Fundamentally most of the pro-Bexit voters are (IMO) too dumb, and willfully uninformed, to be allowed to vote. They're incapable of thinking through the consequences of their actions and blinded by a media churned fecalstorm of lies and nonsense, racism and nationalism.

The Don · 19th February 2020, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Actually there is. Meet Stevie.

Whilst that may help, Steve's range of skills/duties are very narrow. Thinking of Daddy Don's 18 months in care, Steve would only have met a fraction of his needs and for the final 6 months would have freaked him out completely.

Which is not to say that something far better won't be in place when I need them in 30 or so years time.

Lothian · 19th February 2020, 08:17 AM

Fairly sure the Tories will withdraw benefits from those who refuse to upsticks to areas needing workers.
Who knows perhaps in 18 months the good folk of Boston will be campaigning to convert the co-op to a Polish Deli in a desperate attempt to attract back those nice young people who worked hard snd kept themselves to themselves as opposed to the spice addled feckless who have been bused in by the government to take their place.

wobs · 19th February 2020, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Industries which rely on large numbers of low paid (but not necessarily low skilled) workers such as agriculture, food processing and social care are naturally up in arms. Whilst the Porkmaster 3000 may be able to turn pigs into ham and bacon, there isn't a similar machine who can look after Auntie Doris in her care home.

Perhaps they are hoping that the sausage maker who is laid off due to automation, can look after Auntie Doris.

Darat · 19th February 2020, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Lothian

Fairly sure the Tories will withdraw benefits from those who refuse to upsticks to areas needing workers.
Who knows perhaps in 18 months the good folk of Boston will be campaigning to convert the co-op to a Polish Deli in a desperate attempt to attract back those nice young people who worked hard snd kept themselves to themselves as opposed to the spice addled feckless who have been bused in by the government to take their place.

Bused in? Why can't they walk? Lazy good for nothings.

And I'm sure they will enjoy the luxury of their time shared bunk in the room with 8 other bunks and a house with one toilet and bathroom for the 32 people living there...

jimbob · 19th February 2020, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

It's typical Priti Patel tbh. Given a talking point she simply repeats it - or gets it wrong repeatedly

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

- regardless of points raised or how irrelevant subsequent conversation has made it

See also

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Look at Ian Hislop's expression

"It's not a deterrent to kill the wrong people"

The Don · 20th February 2020, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

Priti Patel was on BBC radio, arguing that the loss of low skill immigrants would be offset by companies training the large proportion of British 16-64 year olds who are not 'economically active'.

When it was put to her, that most of those are either students, long-term unemployed, retired, or with caring responsibilities, and that the UK is at almost full employment, she doubled down, insisting that there are 8 million 'non-economically active' available and ready for training.

This isn't going to end well, is it?

The BBC have done a breakdown of the Office of National Statistics (ONS) analysis of the 8 million "economically inactive" people and have found that:

27% are in education - so at best could do part-time work
26% are unable to work due to sickness - almost all are long-term sick
22% are carers - if you force them to work, you're creating demand elsewhere
13% are retired - good luck forcing them back into work

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51560120

That does leave around 12% who are "other" which includes those waiting to start a job, those in the process of application and a very small number who are "discouraged".

Some of those in other categories could be tempted into work and the ONS have found that nearly 1.9 million would like a job but:

That doesn't mean that they'd take any job. If I retire before 65 I might be tempted to part-time work in a music shop or upscale off-licence. I wouldn't work in a care home for all the money in the world.
They may be in the wrong place. If I retire before 65 I'd only consider work within an easy commute. If I was a second wage earner in a home, I wouldn't take a job which would require me to work away from home or move my family (especially if the commuting and accommodation costs were higher than my wages)
That doesn't mean that they are suitable for that job. I'm a terrible fit for any kind of customer-facing or personal care job and though I'm reasonably spry, at 52 I'm not cut out for outdoor work with heavy lifting
That also doesn't mean that they have the skills, or can easily acquire the skills to do an allegedly low-skilled job

IMO Lothian has hit the nail on the head. This is the usual Conservative attack on the benefits system. Someone who doesn't take a job, no matter how unsuited they are for it or how impossible it is for them to get to it will lose their benefits.

Ulf Nereng · 20th February 2020, 03:50 AM

Well, there is a large economic potential for UK in the low-skill sector, I'm sure! And when the low-skill market in the UK itself is filled you can get back at those EU countries by sending your low-skill workers there to take the jobs from the locals. That'll learn them!

wobs · 20th February 2020, 04:20 AM

Its a de-skilling excercise. By only letting in skilled workers, you push many Brits into low skilled work, where they will stay.

Darat · 20th February 2020, 06:04 AM

Reuters: Exclusive: Google users in UK to lose EU data protection - sources.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...Partner-Google

Mojo · 20th February 2020, 06:04 AM

I had assumed that the figure of 8 million unemployed just meant that they’ve been fiddling the figures all this time.

Ian Osborne · 20th February 2020, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

I had assumed that the figure of 8 million unemployed just meant that they’ve been fiddling the figures all this time.

...Just for a change.

GlennB · 20th February 2020, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

I had assumed that the figure of 8 million unemployed just meant that they’ve been fiddling the figures all this time.

I believe the lower figure is for "Unemployed and claiming benefits". Not quite the same as "not economically active".

The Don · 20th February 2020, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by GlennB

I believe the lower figure is for "Unemployed and claiming benefits". Not quite the same as "not economically active".

Exactly.

Wyld Bird Seed's bassist and his wife are "not economically active" having retired in their late 50's. He was the managing director of a large bridge building company and is comfortably retired with no money worries whatsoever.

He isn't going to want to pick cabbages in Lincolnshire.

Mojo · 20th February 2020, 11:51 AM

But that’s what the Brexiteers voted for: all of them metropolitan elites being rounded up and made to do some real work!

SezMe · 21st February 2020, 10:19 AM

Here is an interesting story on a little-noticed colateral damage of Brexit: museum pieces.

abaddon · 21st February 2020, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Here is an interesting story on a little-noticed colateral damage of Brexit: museum pieces.

colateral damage of Brexit? I keep thinking of unintended consequence on my own, yet still find myself going "dammit, I didn't think of that" as and when these things arise.

quadraginta · 21st February 2020, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Reuters: Exclusive: Google users in UK to lose EU data protection - sources.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...Partner-Google

Right-thinking Englishmen will glory in this further freedom from the smothering shackles of the EU nanny state.

SezMe · 21st February 2020, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by abaddon

colateral damage of Brexit? I keep thinking of unintended consequence on my own, yet still find myself going "dammit, I didn't think of that" as and when these things arise.

You're right. I didn't like "colateral damage' even as I posted but couldn't think of a better word at the (senior) moment.

"unintended consequence" is what I meant.

Pixel42 · 22nd February 2020, 12:23 AM

Knowing all the Doctor Whos in order will get you 70 points instantly, immigrants told

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...20200221193666

The Don · 22nd February 2020, 12:36 AM

Meanwhile, the sole "benefit" of Brexit - getting our blue passports back - is going to happen some time in March.

Quote:

The first blue British passports for nearly 30 years will be issued next month, the Home Office has said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018

I mean of course we could have had blue passports all along had we chosen to do so and the new "English" passports will be produced in France (though like the Chinese MGs, they will be shipped in CKD form and assembled locally).

Quote:

The blue passports will be made by Gemalto, owned by French firm Thales. However, they will be personalised with the holder's details in the UK.

KDLarsen · 23rd February 2020, 03:14 AM

Even better, the passports will be produced in Poland. The previous red ones? Made by a British company (De La Rue) and produced in Britain, and as a result of the lost contract, they've put 200 jobs at risk

Darat · 23rd February 2020, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

Even better, the passports will be produced in Poland. The previous red ones? Made by a British company (De La Rue) and produced in Britain, and as a result of the lost contract, they've put 200 jobs at risk

That's what we all voted for! It is worth any amount of economic pain to be able to have blue passports back.

2024: Department of Health press release:

We are pleased to announce that we have hit our target a year early and have already reached 60,000 children contracting the Polio virus annually, we've not seen such figures since the 1950s. Once again Boris delivers on his Brexit pledges.

Captain_Swoop · 23rd February 2020, 05:05 AM

Boris want's smaller briefs.

Quote:

aides have been ordered to send him shorter memos, limiting papers to just two sides of A4”

It’s also been revealed that MI5 officers

Quote:

have reduced amount of intelligence they pass to Priti Patel because they “do not trust” the Home Secretary

Taking lessons from Donald?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...iefs-67mt0bg95

Captain_Swoop · 23rd February 2020, 05:22 AM

Boris likes to be seen as Churchillian, but the more I see of how he operates the more he seems to emulate Churchill's German adversary.
Lazy, let's others do all the work, underlings made to fight for favours, sack those who disagree and blame everyone else for failures.

Planigale · 23rd February 2020, 05:58 AM

Given the issues in Italy my guess is Europe is going to be distracted by trying to control covid 19 in the next few months, and negotiations on Brexit may take a bit of a low priority. The UK needs to restrict freedom of travel for EU citizens promptly. Covid 19 might be an acceptable excuse for prolonging the interim transitional arrangements.

Lothian · 23rd February 2020, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Boris want's smaller briefs.

One pagers are common for ministers, and have been for a lot by time.

Mojo · 23rd February 2020, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Boris want's smaller briefs.

I’ve heard that tight underwear reduces male fertility.

quadraginta · 23rd February 2020, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Lothian

One pagers are common for ministers, and have been for a lot by time.

And the Prime Minister is, of course, nothing more than first among equals.

It isn't like the office has any greater duties or responsibilities.

19th February 2020, 04:26 AM	#3003
Garrison Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: UK Posts: 5,528	Well I assume the intention is to strip away rights so all those people who lose their jobs when various industries pack up and move to Europe have no choice but to take jobs picking fruit, cleaning hospitals, etc. or end up sleeping on the streets.
	__________________ So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/ And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX

19th February 2020, 05:56 AM	#3005
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,373	Priti Patel was on BBC radio, arguing that the loss of low skill immigrants would be offset by companies training the large proportion of British 16-64 year olds who are not 'economically active'. When it was put to her, that most of those are either students, long-term unemployed, retired, or with caring responsibilities, and that the UK is at almost full employment, she doubled down, insisting that there are 8 million 'non-economically active' available and ready for training. This isn't going to end well, is it?
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,373

19th February 2020, 06:16 AM	#3006
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 21,294	Originally Posted by KDLarsen Priti Patel was on BBC radio, arguing that the loss of low skill immigrants would be offset by companies training the large proportion of British 16-64 year olds who are not 'economically active'. When it was put to her, that most of those are either students, long-term unemployed, retired, or with caring responsibilities, and that the UK is at almost full employment, she doubled down, insisting that there are 8 million 'non-economically active' available and ready for training. This isn't going to end well, is it? Re-education camps? Forced labour? Seems familiar.
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...

19th February 2020, 06:32 AM	#3008
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,373	Then again, probably just as much sheer incompetence. Some real wonder stories coming out of the Home Office, such as that of a 101 year old being asked to have his parents(!) sign off on his birth certificate. Yes indeed, a Y2K bug in 2020...
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,373

19th February 2020, 06:41 AM	#3010
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 12,998	Originally Posted by The Don Looks like the architects of Brexit will get all their wishes. You have to admit they've played an absolute blinder. They've gone from the Tory party's crackpot right wing, whose silence Cameron bought in the 2015 election by agreeing to the referendum so their extreme views wouldn't scupper his chance of re-election, to total control of their party and the country. They now have five years to do whatever the **** they want to maximise their own personal wealth, which was always their one and only priority.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

19th February 2020, 12:00 AM	#3001
Lukraak_Sisser Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,963	Originally Posted by Arcade22 https://www.theguardian.com/politics...te-citizenship This is what's called having your cake and eating it too. British people really have an inflated sense of importance. As others have said, I'm sure the EU would allow that, provided the UK gives the same rights to EU citizens. But the current UK government, sorry, Dominic Cummings has made clear he does not want that. It must be great to replace lots of unelected bureacrats with a single one.

19th February 2020, 12:36 AM	#3002
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,341	The government has announced its points-based immigration system with no allowance for low paid (which implies low skilled but IMO that's often a nonsense) workers. Quote: Low-skilled workers would not get visas under post-Brexit immigration plans unveiled by the government. It is urging employers to "move away" from relying on "cheap labour" from Europe and invest in retaining staff and developing automation technology. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51550421 Of course automating away the low-skilled jobs will hit many of those people who voted for Brexit - those left behind in an economy which is more skills driven - whilst rewarding those with higher skills. Industries which rely on large numbers of low paid (but not necessarily low skilled) workers such as agriculture, food processing and social care are naturally up in arms. Whilst the Porkmaster 3000 may be able to turn pigs into ham and bacon, there isn't a similar machine who can look after Auntie Doris in her care home. It seems that labour costs will rise in the UK which in turn will make UK businesses less competitive both at home and abroad. A lot of the cost in the food we buy in the supermarket are the labour costs of harvesting and processing it. If labour becomes more expensive then the costs of providing that labour and/or automating it will be passed onto the consumer. If the government is serious about tariff-free trade then this means that UK producers will lose out to cheaper EU produced goods. If it isn't and protectionist tariffs are introduced then exports will suffer and the UK consumer will have to bear the additional costs. Those people who will be hit hardest will be those who can afford the additional costs least well, the low paid and retirees on low and/or fixed incomes - many of whom voted in favour of Brexit.

19th February 2020, 04:32 AM	#3004
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,341	Originally Posted by Garrison Well I assume the intention is to strip away rights so all those people who lose their jobs when various industries pack up and move to Europe have no choice but to take jobs picking fruit, cleaning hospitals, etc. or end up sleeping on the streets. That would be a plan, and one which would unfortunately end up hurting those who, because they felt left behind by changes to the economy and/or the effects of austerity, voted in favour of Brexit. There would have to be a mass migration of people from areas of high unemployment to areas where there is high demand for labour which would mean that all the complaints that led to the Brexit vote; a shortage of local services, a lack of housing stock, pressure on the NHS and school places; would still be in place in those Brexit-voting areas. This presupposes that a family from the Welsh valleys would be willing to take seasonal agricultural work hundreds of miles away. There's a reason why so much of the seasonal work is done by young people with few or no ties.

19th February 2020, 06:31 AM	#3007
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,341	Originally Posted by KDLarsen Priti Patel was on BBC radio, arguing that the loss of low skill immigrants would be offset by companies training the large proportion of British 16-64 year olds who are not 'economically active'. When it was put to her, that most of those are either students, long-term unemployed, retired, or with caring responsibilities, and that the UK is at almost full employment, she doubled down, insisting that there are 8 million 'non-economically active' available and ready for training. This isn't going to end well, is it? Even if you ignore the fact that a significant proportion (most ?) of the 8 million economically inactive because they are in education or training, are disabled or otherwise unable to work, have retired and so on - are these people in the right place ? Is someone in their late 50's who has a house in the Welsh valleys and who isn't in the best physical health really going to relocate themselves and their dependants to Lincolnshire for six weeks' casual labour picking cabbages for minimum wage ? If so how will they get there ? Where will they live while they are there ? Will people really have the skills - and attitude - to perform these allegedly low-skill jobs ? It's going to end as expected, with a scrapping of workers' rights and an evisceration of the welfare state. Employers will be able to hire and fire at will, claiming any benefits other than the retirement pension will be nigh-on impossible and the government will have recreated the underclass whose exploitation provided the grease for the Industrial Revolution. Looks like the architects of Brexit will get all their wishes.

19th February 2020, 06:47 AM	#3011
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,341	Originally Posted by Pixel42 You have to admit they've played an absolute blinder. They've gone from the Tory party's crackpot right wing, whose silence Cameron bought in the 2015 election by agreeing to the referendum so their extreme views wouldn't scupper his chance of re-election, to total control of their party and the country. They now have five years to do whatever the **** they want to maximise their own personal wealth, which was always their one and only priority. The only thing I'd disagree with is that I think that they'll have a generation or more to do whatever they want, not just 5 years. The next part of the project is to have a managed Scottish Independence and Irish reunification so as to ensure a Conservative Majority in Westminster for the foreseeable future. I'm hoping that Mrs Don and I are wealthy enough to be the "right " side of the economic chasm when it opens up. Sadly although we're "very comfortably off", I think we're a long way off.

19th February 2020, 08:02 AM	#3012
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,833	Originally Posted by The Don The government has announced its points-based immigration system with no allowance for low paid (which implies low skilled but IMO that's often a nonsense) workers. Meh, not unexpected. Using illegals will be even cheaper.... Originally Posted by The Don Of course automating away the low-skilled jobs will hit many of those people who voted for Brexit - those left behind in an economy which is more skills driven - whilst rewarding those with higher skills. True. Though I suspect that the irony will be lost on the D³ crowd. Originally Posted by The Don ...there isn't a similar machine who can look after Auntie Doris in her care home. Actually there is. Meet Stevie. Originally Posted by The Don It seems that labour costs will rise in the UK which in turn will make UK businesses less competitive both at home and abroad. A lot of the cost in the food we buy in the supermarket are the labour costs of harvesting and processing it. If labour becomes more expensive then the costs of providing that labour and/or automating it will be passed onto the consumer. If the government is serious about tariff-free trade then this means that UK producers will lose out to cheaper EU produced goods. If it isn't and protectionist tariffs are introduced then exports will suffer and the UK consumer will have to bear the additional costs. Those people who will be hit hardest will be those who can afford the additional costs least well, the low paid and retirees on low and/or fixed incomes - many of whom voted in favour of Brexit. Fundamentally most of the pro-Bexit voters are (IMO) too dumb, and willfully uninformed, to be allowed to vote. They're incapable of thinking through the consequences of their actions and blinded by a media churned fecalstorm of lies and nonsense, racism and nationalism.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

19th February 2020, 08:06 AM	#3013
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,341	Originally Posted by catsmate Actually there is. Meet Stevie. Whilst that may help, Steve's range of skills/duties are very narrow. Thinking of Daddy Don's 18 months in care, Steve would only have met a fraction of his needs and for the final 6 months would have freaked him out completely. Which is not to say that something far better won't be in place when I need them in 30 or so years time.

19th February 2020, 08:17 AM	#3014
Lothian should be banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside Posts: 16,119	Fairly sure the Tories will withdraw benefits from those who refuse to upsticks to areas needing workers. Who knows perhaps in 18 months the good folk of Boston will be campaigning to convert the co-op to a Polish Deli in a desperate attempt to attract back those nice young people who worked hard snd kept themselves to themselves as opposed to the spice addled feckless who have been bused in by the government to take their place.

19th February 2020, 08:45 AM	#3015
wobs Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Hull Posts: 2,310	Originally Posted by The Don Industries which rely on large numbers of low paid (but not necessarily low skilled) workers such as agriculture, food processing and social care are naturally up in arms. Whilst the Porkmaster 3000 may be able to turn pigs into ham and bacon, there isn't a similar machine who can look after Auntie Doris in her care home. Perhaps they are hoping that the sausage maker who is laid off due to automation, can look after Auntie Doris.
	__________________ "To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag."

19th February 2020, 09:05 AM	#3016
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,936	Originally Posted by Lothian Fairly sure the Tories will withdraw benefits from those who refuse to upsticks to areas needing workers. Who knows perhaps in 18 months the good folk of Boston will be campaigning to convert the co-op to a Polish Deli in a desperate attempt to attract back those nice young people who worked hard snd kept themselves to themselves as opposed to the spice addled feckless who have been bused in by the government to take their place. Bused in? Why can't they walk? Lazy good for nothings. And I'm sure they will enjoy the luxury of their time shared bunk in the room with 8 other bunks and a house with one toilet and bathroom for the 32 people living there...
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

20th February 2020, 02:03 AM	#3018
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,341	Originally Posted by KDLarsen Priti Patel was on BBC radio, arguing that the loss of low skill immigrants would be offset by companies training the large proportion of British 16-64 year olds who are not 'economically active'. When it was put to her, that most of those are either students, long-term unemployed, retired, or with caring responsibilities, and that the UK is at almost full employment, she doubled down, insisting that there are 8 million 'non-economically active' available and ready for training. This isn't going to end well, is it? The BBC have done a breakdown of the Office of National Statistics (ONS) analysis of the 8 million "economically inactive" people and have found that: 27% are in education - so at best could do part-time work 26% are unable to work due to sickness - almost all are long-term sick 22% are carers - if you force them to work, you're creating demand elsewhere 13% are retired - good luck forcing them back into work https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51560120 That does leave around 12% who are "other" which includes those waiting to start a job, those in the process of application and a very small number who are "discouraged". Some of those in other categories could be tempted into work and the ONS have found that nearly 1.9 million would like a job but: That doesn't mean that they'd take any job. If I retire before 65 I might be tempted to part-time work in a music shop or upscale off-licence. I wouldn't work in a care home for all the money in the world. They may be in the wrong place. If I retire before 65 I'd only consider work within an easy commute. If I was a second wage earner in a home, I wouldn't take a job which would require me to work away from home or move my family (especially if the commuting and accommodation costs were higher than my wages) That doesn't mean that they are suitable for that job. I'm a terrible fit for any kind of customer-facing or personal care job and though I'm reasonably spry, at 52 I'm not cut out for outdoor work with heavy lifting That also doesn't mean that they have the skills, or can easily acquire the skills to do an allegedly low-skilled job IMO Lothian has hit the nail on the head. This is the usual Conservative attack on the benefits system. Someone who doesn't take a job, no matter how unsuited they are for it or how impossible it is for them to get to it will lose their benefits.

20th February 2020, 03:50 AM	#3019
Ulf Nereng Muse Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Norway Posts: 570	Well, there is a large economic potential for UK in the low-skill sector, I'm sure! And when the low-skill market in the UK itself is filled you can get back at those EU countries by sending your low-skill workers there to take the jobs from the locals. That'll learn them!

20th February 2020, 04:20 AM	#3020
wobs Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Hull Posts: 2,310	Its a de-skilling excercise. By only letting in skilled workers, you push many Brits into low skilled work, where they will stay.
	__________________ "To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag."

20th February 2020, 06:04 AM	#3021
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,936	Reuters: Exclusive: Google users in UK to lose EU data protection - sources. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...Partner-Google
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

20th February 2020, 06:04 AM	#3022
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,752	I had assumed that the figure of 8 million unemployed just meant that they’ve been fiddling the figures all this time.
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

20th February 2020, 09:20 AM	#3023
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,234	Originally Posted by Mojo I had assumed that the figure of 8 million unemployed just meant that they’ve been fiddling the figures all this time. ...Just for a change.
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

20th February 2020, 10:36 AM	#3024
GlennB Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Usk, Wales Posts: 26,381	Originally Posted by Mojo I had assumed that the figure of 8 million unemployed just meant that they’ve been fiddling the figures all this time. I believe the lower figure is for "Unemployed and claiming benefits". Not quite the same as "not economically active".
	__________________ "Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut

20th February 2020, 10:48 AM	#3025
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,341	Originally Posted by GlennB I believe the lower figure is for "Unemployed and claiming benefits". Not quite the same as "not economically active". Exactly. Wyld Bird Seed's bassist and his wife are "not economically active" having retired in their late 50's. He was the managing director of a large bridge building company and is comfortably retired with no money worries whatsoever. He isn't going to want to pick cabbages in Lincolnshire.

20th February 2020, 11:51 AM	#3026
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 33,752	But that’s what the Brexiteers voted for: all of them metropolitan elites being rounded up and made to do some real work!
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

21st February 2020, 10:19 AM	#3027
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 24,970	Here is an interesting story on a little-noticed colateral damage of Brexit: museum pieces.

21st February 2020, 10:49 AM	#3028
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 21,294	Originally Posted by SezMe Here is an interesting story on a little-noticed colateral damage of Brexit: museum pieces. colateral damage of Brexit? I keep thinking of unintended consequence on my own, yet still find myself going "dammit, I didn't think of that" as and when these things arise.
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...

21st February 2020, 12:09 PM	#3029
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,172	Originally Posted by Darat Reuters: Exclusive: Google users in UK to lose EU data protection - sources. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...Partner-Google Right-thinking Englishmen will glory in this further freedom from the smothering shackles of the EU nanny state.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

21st February 2020, 06:56 PM	#3030
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 24,970	Originally Posted by abaddon colateral damage of Brexit? I keep thinking of unintended consequence on my own, yet still find myself going "dammit, I didn't think of that" as and when these things arise. You're right. I didn't like "colateral damage' even as I posted but couldn't think of a better word at the (senior) moment. "unintended consequence" is what I meant.

22nd February 2020, 12:23 AM	#3031
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 12,998	Knowing all the Doctor Whos in order will get you 70 points instantly, immigrants told https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...20200221193666
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett Last edited by Pixel42; 22nd February 2020 at 12:24 AM.

22nd February 2020, 12:36 AM	#3032
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,341	Meanwhile, the sole "benefit" of Brexit - getting our blue passports back - is going to happen some time in March. Quote: The first blue British passports for nearly 30 years will be issued next month, the Home Office has said. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51585018 I mean of course we could have had blue passports all along had we chosen to do so and the new "English" passports will be produced in France (though like the Chinese MGs, they will be shipped in CKD form and assembled locally). Quote: The blue passports will be made by Gemalto, owned by French firm Thales. However, they will be personalised with the holder's details in the UK.

23rd February 2020, 03:14 AM	#3033
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,373	Even better, the passports will be produced in Poland. The previous red ones? Made by a British company (De La Rue) and produced in Britain, and as a result of the lost contract, they've put 200 jobs at risk
KDLarsen Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,373

23rd February 2020, 04:38 AM	#3034
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,936	Originally Posted by KDLarsen Even better, the passports will be produced in Poland. The previous red ones? Made by a British company (De La Rue) and produced in Britain, and as a result of the lost contract, they've put 200 jobs at risk That's what we all voted for! It is worth any amount of economic pain to be able to have blue passports back. 2024: Department of Health press release: We are pleased to announce that we have hit our target a year early and have already reached 60,000 children contracting the Polio virus annually, we've not seen such figures since the 1950s. Once again Boris delivers on his Brexit pledges.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

23rd February 2020, 05:05 AM	#3035
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,867	Boris want's smaller briefs. Quote: aides have been ordered to send him shorter memos, limiting papers to just two sides of A4” It’s also been revealed that MI5 officers Quote: have reduced amount of intelligence they pass to Priti Patel because they “do not trust” the Home Secretary Taking lessons from Donald? https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...iefs-67mt0bg95

23rd February 2020, 05:22 AM	#3036
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,867	Boris likes to be seen as Churchillian, but the more I see of how he operates the more he seems to emulate Churchill's German adversary. Lazy, let's others do all the work, underlings made to fight for favours, sack those who disagree and blame everyone else for failures.

23rd February 2020, 05:58 AM	#3037
Planigale Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: 49 North Posts: 4,639	Given the issues in Italy my guess is Europe is going to be distracted by trying to control covid 19 in the next few months, and negotiations on Brexit may take a bit of a low priority. The UK needs to restrict freedom of travel for EU citizens promptly. Covid 19 might be an acceptable excuse for prolonging the interim transitional arrangements.