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3rd March 2024, 06:26 PM | #1 |
Graduate Poster
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Non-compete clauses
I've always thought these were mostly unfair in most (though not all) cases. Anyway, came up today with this medical non-compete. Medicine is so weird in the US, where it's so privatized that patient health is so often secondary to profit.
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3rd March 2024, 06:30 PM | #2 |
Penultimate Amazing
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If someone told me that 9/11 was because of outrage over this, I'd be like, yeah, I kind of feel you.
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There is no Antimemetics Division. |
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3rd March 2024, 06:39 PM | #3 |
Illuminator
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States vary in whether, and to what extent, they allow non-compete clauses.
Back in the 80's the company I worked in suddenly asked tech employees to sign non-compete agreements. This was because the company was looking at going public and likely the potential underwriters noticed they didn't have them and were pushing them to do it. I was not amused and proceeded to make it clear to other employees that there was no effing way I was going to sign it. At the time I was manager of R&D so had some clout. Within a week the company decided not to pursue it and retracted the request from everyone. I suffered no repercussions. Funny thing is that a couple years later the state of California made such agreements void except for unusual circumstances such as for the owners of a business when selling the business. |
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3rd March 2024, 09:53 PM | #4 |
Maledictorian
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Non-competes would be fine, if the company continued to pay your a salary for the duration plus retraining.
The way it is, it's just a very nasty type of wage theft. |
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3rd March 2024, 10:36 PM | #5 |
Illuminator
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
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Employers in Ontario, Canada Employers are not permitted to issue non-compete agreements to their employees in Ontario.
It's against the law. |
4th March 2024, 03:50 AM | #6 |
Lackey
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In the UK they are difficult to have enforced especially if they attempt to be wide ranging, they are normally struck down on the grounds of if I recall correctly "restriction to trade". And even their limited use are being looked at. There was a recentish consultation that ended with (all from memory) it being proposed to limit them to 3 months and the employer will have to compensate the ex-employee for the enforcement period.
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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4th March 2024, 06:13 AM | #7 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 16,041
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Perhaps a little insight into the issues:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...3982/ECTA18128
Quote:
Quote:
https://marginalrevolution.com/margi...e-clauses.html
Quote:
Quote:
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4th March 2024, 06:19 AM | #8 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Meanwhile in South Korea, doctors go on strike to protest a government plan to train more doctors to address a shortage of doctors.
South Korean doctors strike in protest of plans to add more physicians They really do seem like the villains in this case. |
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4th March 2024, 06:54 AM | #9 |
Graduate Poster
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'Restraint of trade', I think.
Anyway, they make sense in some cases. At the place I worked (an airline) people in the planning departments were covered by contract terms about working for competitors without a significant break between jobs. Higher up the management chain, iirc, you got several months 'gardening leave'. |
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4th March 2024, 07:56 AM | #10 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,661
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This isn't even the worst think hospitals do to reduce competition, some states have a thing called "certificate of need" to start a new medical practice you basically need the existing providers to agree to more competition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_need That being said, I don't see a problem with a limited no compete clause for executives and in some cases research scientists, for most jobs, like doctors, shouldn't exist. |
4th March 2024, 08:01 AM | #11 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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4th March 2024, 08:56 AM | #12 |
Lackey
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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4th March 2024, 01:18 PM | #13 |
Not a doctor.
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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4th March 2024, 05:03 PM | #14 |
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4th March 2024, 06:36 PM | #15 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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4th March 2024, 09:16 PM | #16 |
Penultimate Amazing
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That's a nice change since I last had to worry about such a thing. The law came into effect on October 25, 2021.
I do note however that:
Quote:
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4th March 2024, 10:16 PM | #17 |
Philosopher
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Yeah I've had to sign non-competition; and agreed it's hard to enforce. Just basically a way of not taking your clients with you if you choose to leave, with whom you which you have a had a long and trusting relationship.
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5th March 2024, 05:30 AM | #18 |
Not a doctor.
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Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake. |
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6th March 2024, 03:19 AM | #19 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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6th March 2024, 03:48 AM | #20 |
Beauf
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At a former employer of mine they tried including contract terms forbidding us from going to work for a client without a twelve month cooling-off period. This was unpopular, even more so when our CEO announced his retirement and in the same message mentioned that he’d accepted non-exec director positions at two of our biggest clients.
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6th March 2024, 04:14 AM | #21 |
Lackey
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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8th March 2024, 06:41 AM | #22 |
Philosopher
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Posts: 9,774
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I'm all for employers having to sign non-compete agreements with their employees.
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8th March 2024, 09:33 AM | #23 |
Master Poster
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My mate in the algorithmic trading ‘industry’ got 9 months’ paid gardening leave about 10 years ago, which is the longest I’ve heard of. He has also had a couple of 3 month periods and one 6. Sadly my wife, also in the financial field but not as gambly, hasn’t yet had any gardening leave when changing banks.
ETA: she has to agree to a bond of the equivalent of more than £50k when she signs a contract, which prevents her leaving within 3 years (well, it doesn’t, her new employer pays it for her), and whenever she moves from one bank to another, the receiving bank has to pay the equivalent of £20k into a mutual training fund. |
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