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Tags Building What , nyccan , nyccant , reThink911

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Old 28th August 2014, 06:33 PM   #441
Orphia Nay
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This link literally just arrived in my inbox from NYCCAN'T.

http://highrisesafetynyc.org/lawsuit-in-full-swing/
"Yesterday we submitted our first brief laying out our arguments against the City’s challenge to our petition. In addition to addressing the objections listed in the City Clerk’s August 4th certificate, the brief also vigorously counters the City’s attempt to have our case thrown out on a procedural technicality related to our initial court filing three weeks ago. It’s become clear over the last few weeks that the City is playing every card it possibly can, and then some, to keep us from appearing on the ballot. But so far, we’re standing tough, with the law firmly on our side.

Earlier today, we submitted our “Bill of Particulars” documenting 5,268 signatures wrongly invalidated by the City, which puts us well over the 30,000 mark. We anticipate the City will concede that we have enough valid signatures before the referee begins a line-by-line review of the disputed signatures. The line-by-line review has not yet been scheduled, but would likely begin late next week if the City does not concede."
Brief: http://highrisesafetynyc.org/wp-cont...ent-Motion.pdf

Exhibits: http://highrisesafetynyc.org/wp-cont...n-Exhibits.pdf

Bill of Particulars: http://highrisesafetynyc.org/wp-cont...articulars.pdf
"The City is required to respond with its own brief by next Thursday, September 4th. We will have the opportunity to respond by September 10th, and the City again by September 12th. The referee will make an initial ruling shortly thereafter, after which Justice Paul Wooten will hear oral arguments and issue a decision. An appeal by either side would happen during the last week of September, with October 3rd the final cutoff date for submitting items to the ballot."

I'm off to read the LegaltainmentTM!
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Old 28th August 2014, 06:37 PM   #442
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What a complete waste of everyone's time and money.
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Old 28th August 2014, 07:25 PM   #443
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
It’s become clear over the last few weeks that the City is playing every card it possibly can, and then some, to keep us from appearing on the ballot.
Bad, bad City!

(Or maybe the City is not fond of these antics.)
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Old 28th August 2014, 10:27 PM   #444
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I'm 10 pages into the brief, and it seems to me they are claiming that they had no way of confirming the signatures were valid, but they claim the signatures are valid.
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Old 29th August 2014, 12:00 AM   #445
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Rut-roh. This looks like a showstopper for Our Heroes:

Quote:
A tax is defined as a levy made for the purpose of raising revenue for a general governmental purpose; a fee is enacted principally as an integral part of the regulation of an activity and to cover the cost of regulation.
The charge they would impose is clearly a tax under the law, not a fee; taxes require state approval, not city approval. That's their funding plan out the window.

Also, much of the brief is taken up with whingeing about how they are being held to a higher standard than other types of petitions, never mind that the standards are written into the City Charter and have been since probably before any of these people were born.
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Old 29th August 2014, 12:02 AM   #446
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Where's your slam-dunk quote from, jhunter1163?
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Old 29th August 2014, 12:55 AM   #447
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Where's your slam-dunk quote from, jhunter1163?
The brief, last paragraph of page 22. I don't see how that's even arguable. On the one hand, they're claiming the petition confers no regulatory powers, but on the other their "fee" is supposed to cover the cost of regulating.

It's a tax.
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Old 29th August 2014, 08:08 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
This link literally just arrived in my inbox from NYCCAN'T.

I find it curious that they didn't include the exhibits (1 through 7) that were part of the City's August 13, 2014 affirmation in response to the order to show cause. History shows that NYCCANT (and truthers generally) have a tendency to attempt to hide or bury inconvenient facts while simultaneously trying to continue to hustle a few more bucks from the rubes, the True Believers™, by over-stating their actual position and under-stating the opposition.
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Old 29th August 2014, 09:04 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
It's a tax.

That was one of my very first thoughts and very first objections to the New and Improved™ petition when I read it for the first time, and that hasn't changed. So I was pleased, and not at all surprised, to see that raised foremost in the present proceedings.

It's bad enough that the petition does not define the term 'construction permits' and that it's so vague as to be meaningless; it is even worse that if one were to assume that "construction permits" means "permits to engage in construction", then that would potentially mean that any homeowner who sought a permit to conduct a renovation in their home to install a skylight, or to add a rec room, or to re-roof, or to add a deck requiring a permit, or to add a room, or to add a storey of rooms, and that any builder who applied for a permit to build a new single family dwelling, or to build a number of single family dwellings, or to build a lowrise condo or apartment building, and that any builder who applied for a permit to build anything other than a 'high rise' building, would also be required to pay a percentage on top of the permit fee for something that has no relationship whatsoever to the "high rise initiative's" proposed "funding" scheme, something that has no relationship whatsoever to investigating the collapse of 7 WTC (which is what the 'ballot initiative' is actually about) and which cannot reasonably be interpreted as anything other than an impermissible tax.

Why on earth should a homeowner who wants to add a skylight or re-roof or renovate or add a sunroom, or even demolish and rebuild a single family dwelling, for that matter, be subject to the imposition of such a fee?
Similarly with any builder or developer whose plans have nothing to do with high-rise buildings and nothing to do with "high rise safety"? The answer is they shouldn't, and imposing such a fee would amount to a tax that would be entirely inappropriate and illegal for multiple reasons.

And that's before we even begin to get into the other issues. (I wrote a note-to-self at the outset of this thread about all of the issues I see with the latest incarnation of the petition, which I didn't post at the time so as not to give the tinhatters any ideas about how they could have/should have amended their petition to try to avoid the obvious pitfalls, as I posted previously, but I can't readily put my finger on that doc just now - because there's a lot going on in real life here at the moment - but I will look for it for future posting later.)
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Old 30th August 2014, 06:11 AM   #450
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
I find it curious that they didn't include the exhibits (1 through 7) that were part of the City's August 13, 2014 affirmation in response to the order to show cause. History shows that NYCCANT (and truthers generally) have a tendency to attempt to hide or bury inconvenient facts while simultaneously trying to continue to hustle a few more bucks from the rubes, the True Believers™, by over-stating their actual position and under-stating the opposition.
Do you have access to those? They aren't on SCROLL. I'd be interested to see them, assuming of course that you 1) have such access and 2) aren't too busy with real life issues, which of course are far more important.
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Old 30th August 2014, 11:54 AM   #451
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Do you have access to those? They aren't on SCROLL. I'd be interested to see them, assuming of course that you 1) have such access and 2) aren't too busy with real life issues, which of course are far more important.

I should be able to get them through a friend, but the friend is currently on vacation, and won't be back until next week. In light of all that is going on in real life at present, I may not have time to take the extra steps of uploading them to my site etc., but I should be able to at least e-mail them to someone else to share here.
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Old 30th August 2014, 11:13 PM   #452
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Today's the deadline for donations, and they're about $10,000 short of their goal. I sure hope they can afford to continue with the Legaltainment™ (but not so much that I would donate.)
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Old 31st August 2014, 10:30 AM   #453
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I've got the exhibits to the affirmation now; they are the e-mails back and forth as set out in the affirmation showing the moving party's belated requests and the prompt response by the city to those requests (in respect of the signatures that were deemed invalid).

The city's responding materials will be filed on Thursday. Meanwhile, I will see if I can also obtain the exhibits to the bill of particulars that NYCCAN filed.
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Old 31st August 2014, 10:57 AM   #454
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Okay, the exhibits to the bill of particulars are rather voluminous and too large to e-mail, but they are apparently simply lists of signatures that the truthers contend were wrongly determined to be invalid.
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Old 1st September 2014, 05:16 PM   #455
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Quote:
We are in the midst of a lawsuit against the City to have the High-Rise Safety Initiative placed on the November ballot, and we must raise $30,000 by Sunday, September 7th to fund our ongoing litigation.
Guess the moved the goal line again
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Old 1st September 2014, 05:20 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by Trojan View Post
Guess the moved the goal line again
At least the Lawyers are making money...vbg.
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Old 4th September 2014, 07:15 AM   #457
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Should be some Legaltainment™ today.
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Old 4th September 2014, 05:24 PM   #458
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http://highrisesafetynyc.org/second-...ion-submitted/

Quote:
Earlier today we submitted over 33,000 petition signatures to the City of New York, more than double the requisite 15,000 needed to override the City Council’s lack of action in response to the first petition submitted on July 3rd.

With our petitioning now officially over – and both petitions extremely likely to meet their respective thresholds of 30,000 and 15,000 valid signatures – the only remaining obstacle to appearing on the ballot this November 4th is the City’s legal challenge.

[...]Next week we’ll be submitting a second brief in response to the City’s first brief, which is expected later today. After that there will be oral arguments before New York Supreme Court Justice Paul Wooten, and most likely an appeal by whichever side loses at the trial level.

Just $3,000 Left to Raise

Mr. Glickman and his firm have been working around the clock, and at a significantly reduced rate, to make sure we have the best possible chance of prevailing against the City.
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Old 4th September 2014, 08:36 PM   #459
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Quote:
Mr. Glickman and his firm have been working around the clock
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post

All those wonderful billable hours.
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Old 6th September 2014, 05:35 PM   #460
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http://highrisesafetynyc.org/its-off...gh-signatures/

Quote:
After claiming the petition submitted on July 3rd had only 27,892 valid signatures – 2,108 short of the 30,000 threshold – the City has finally conceded that we have enough signatures, paving the way for the anticipated battle over the petition’s legality.

The great news came on Friday afternoon as we were about to head into the weekend unsure whether the line-by-line review scheduled to begin on Monday morning would indeed go forward. But, as expected, the line-by-line review was called off after the City acknowledged it would be a waste of the court’s time and resources.

[...]The City Clerk is required to respond by September 24th as to whether the second petition has at least 15,000 valid signatures. If the City once again claims that we have less than the required number, we will need to review the challenged signatures immediately and quickly, with the October 3rd cutoff date just a week later.
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Old 6th September 2014, 05:45 PM   #461
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It doesn't matter if they have three million signatures; as before, the petition is legally deficient and will not stand up under the Corporation Counsel's scrutiny. This is yet another example of the Truthers trumpeting a "victory" that is, in the end, utterly meaningless; the CC's attitude is, no doubt, "Let's not waste time with the signatures and get on with the legal smackdown."
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Old 6th September 2014, 05:46 PM   #462
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Spot on, jhunter1163.
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Old 6th September 2014, 06:21 PM   #463
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Wouldn't it be better to spend this money on a new investigation instead of going though all this trouble asking someone else to do it?

We all know "truthers" are not the brightest bulbs on the tree but, this is a no brainer.
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Old 6th September 2014, 07:12 PM   #464
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Wouldn't it be better to spend this money on a new investigation instead of going though all this trouble asking someone else to do it?

We all know "truthers" are not the brightest bulbs on the tree but, this is a no brainer.
Of course but they want subpoena power to go after pols.... not just have some engineers play with dust in labs... THAT is the investigation they want.
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Old 8th September 2014, 07:57 AM   #465
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I have the materials that were filed by the City's counsel in response to the truthers' stuff.

The City is bringing a cross-motion for summary judgment; their materials include three affidavits (one by a Chief Structural Engineer for NYC, one by the Executive Director for Budget and Fiscal Operations, and one by the Deputy Comptroller for Accountancy and the Chief Acountant for NYC), as well as a 55 page memorandum of law, and an affirmation of the City's counsel attaching batch of documents including shots of various pages of the truther site (total of 39 pages).

I haven't had time to thoroughly read the materials yet but I've quickly scanned them and they look pretty good.

I don't have time to upload them to my website and publish them at the moment but if someone else can publish them, I can email them out to someone who wants to post them up. Alternatively, perhaps I can attach them as pdfs here, I'm not sure if that will work, but I'll try.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 1 Notice of Cross-Motion.pdf (10.6 KB, 15 views)
File Type: pdf 2 Levine Affidavit.pdf (154.3 KB, 13 views)
File Type: pdf 3 Eschenasy Affidavit.pdf (60.8 KB, 17 views)
File Type: pdf 4 Pemberton Affidavit.pdf (49.7 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by LashL; 8th September 2014 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 8th September 2014, 07:59 AM   #466
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Okay, the first four attached but the upload of the 5th one failed. Maybe it's a size limit of attachments on a post, so I'll try again with #5 and #6.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 6 Memo of Law.pdf (154.1 KB, 17 views)
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Old 8th September 2014, 08:01 AM   #467
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Grr. For some unknown reason, the affirmation of the City's counsel won't upload. I've no idea why. Sorry, but no more time to figure it out. I'll try later or email it to someone else to work with.

Gotta fly.

Enjoy!
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Old 8th September 2014, 08:44 AM   #468
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
Grr. For some unknown reason, the affirmation of the City's counsel won't upload. I've no idea why. Sorry, but no more time to figure it out. I'll try later or email it to someone else to work with.

Gotta fly.

Enjoy!
Can share it through my Onedrive account.
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Old 8th September 2014, 09:15 AM   #469
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
I don't have time to upload them to my website and publish them at the moment but if someone else can publish them, I can email them out to someone who wants to post them up. Alternatively, perhaps I can attach them as pdfs here, I'm not sure if that will work, but I'll try.
My (variable) email address is in this page: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/

I've uploaded the materials and made a small page to show them, here:

http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgim...materials.html
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Old 8th September 2014, 09:35 AM   #470
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Oh, man. That is what we call in the States a "trip to the woodshed" for the Truthers.
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Old 8th September 2014, 11:50 AM   #471
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Oh, man. That is what we call in the States a "trip to the woodshed" for the Truthers.
Allow me to applaud you and others who spotted the gaping holes in legal logic and common sense in the ballot proposal way back when, and kept beautifully quiet about them until the petition was submitted.

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Old 8th September 2014, 12:06 PM   #472
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Thanks, LashL and pgimeno, for providing these.

They're absolutely dead on the accounting issue; it's "black letter law," as the saying goes. I'll be interested in how they try to spin their latest failure.
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Old 8th September 2014, 12:17 PM   #473
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I just read the part about how the DOB didn't even have jurisdiction over WTC 7, because it was under the jurisdiction of the PANYNJ. I'd say that rips the bottom out of their failboat right there.
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Old 8th September 2014, 12:30 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
I just read the part about how the DOB didn't even have jurisdiction over WTC 7, because it was under the jurisdiction of the PANYNJ. I'd say that rips the bottom out of their failboat right there.
I hope the lawyer who came up with that one allowed themselves a full five minutes to wet themselves laughing.
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Old 8th September 2014, 12:32 PM   #475
LashL
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
My (variable) email address is in this page: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/

I've uploaded the materials and made a small page to show them, here:

http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgim...materials.html

Excellent and thanks! I've sent #5, counsel's affirmation, to you by email.
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Old 8th September 2014, 12:40 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
I've uploaded the materials and made a small page to show them, here:

http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgim...materials.html
And it's updated with the last one.
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Old 8th September 2014, 12:45 PM   #477
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Quote:
Further, a permitting-related enforcement or regulatory purpose for investigation by the DOB of the events of September 11, 2001 is even more remote in light of the fact that the buildings that collapsed in the course of those tragic events were within the governmental jurisdiction of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and therefore not subject to DOB regulation and enforcement.
Not withstanding the other fatal flaws, this is the ultimate fatal flaw.

If its not within their jurisdiction, I think everything else is done. You may as well ask the department to investigate the moon landings.
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Old 8th September 2014, 04:24 PM   #478
jhunter1163
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Originally Posted by Trojan View Post
Not withstanding the other fatal flaws, this is the ultimate fatal flaw.

If its not within their jurisdiction, I think everything else is done. You may as well ask the department to investigate the moon landings.
I would think this would put the kibosh to any future efforts; it's pointless to ask the City to investigate the collapse of a building they had no jurisdiction over.
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Old 8th September 2014, 04:42 PM   #479
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I hope they're beefing up security for 9/11 this year. With this slap-down of Teh Truth, those tens of thousands of concerned citizens are going to be mobbing the site,.... (Yeah, sure... about six of 'em! )
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Old 9th September 2014, 06:45 AM   #480
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
Oh, man. That is what we call in the States a "trip to the woodshed" for the Truthers.

If this thing had passed wouldn't it have amounted to a three million dollar slush fund for Gage since he could determine what investigations were needed?
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