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Tags 9/11 litigation , ballot initiatives , nyccan , nyccant

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Old 10th October 2009, 01:11 AM   #801
Foolmewunz
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
I sincerely appreciate all of the thank you posts, but really, the thanks should rightly go to my contact, who provided the documents on such a timely basis. Had it not been for the fact that they were being posted here, the conspiracy fantasists behind NYCCANT would never have posted anything except their own propaganda for as long as they could string their gullible followers along, and I think that we collectively did a good job here at the JREF forums to force them to acknowledge reality, at least temporarily, as a direct result of the documents being posted here so that the NYCCANT conspiracy fantasists were forced into posting them after we did so here.

I am not going to publicly disclose the name of the person who made this all come together, but to "you know who you are": Thank you!

Cheers,
Lash
That's mighty humble and gracious of you, Lash, and I'm sure Les Jamieson er, uh "Youknowwhoyouare"(wink wink, nudge nudge) appreciates not having his role known.
But in terms of NWO business, I think maybe it's time for The Kitty to pay a visit to NYC. I mean, I don't think we can get much more value out of Les him now that he's snookered them into this Double Hot Fudge Fail Sundae With Sprinkles On The Top.
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Old 10th October 2009, 01:16 AM   #802
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
I sincerely appreciate all of the thank you posts, but really, the thanks should rightly go to my contact, who provided the documents on such a timely basis. Had it not been for the fact that they were being posted here, the conspiracy fantasists behind NYCCANT would never have posted anything except their own propaganda for as long as they could string their gullible followers along, and I think that we collectively did a good job here at the JREF forums to force them to acknowledge reality, at least temporarily, as a direct result of the documents being posted here so that the NYCCANT conspiracy fantasists were forced into posting them after we did so here.

I am not going to publicly disclose the name of the person who made this all come together, but to "you know who you are": Thank you!

Cheers,
Lash
Great job by the source as well, but don't sell yourself short. There are "Truthers" like Victronix (aka Victoria Ashley, wife of Jim Hoffman), who have noted that disclosure was severely lacking by the NYC-CAN group, and bemoaned that they had to go to sites like SLC to find out the real scoop:

Quote:
It's too bad this report is so limited.

Screwloosechange -- and no, I don't approve of them or support them -- provides the pdf of the actual document. The relevant paragraph are these --
Of course, SLC would not have had the PDF of the actual document without your efforts. She goes on to cite a few key paragraphs that have been noted here and adds:

Quote:
What parts exactly were relevant? The "private" aspect as opposed to a public commission? This is highly meaningful as it could set a terrible precedent if not well thought out. It would be good to know the details, to review, and to ask why those aspects were included in the first place. But so far, it doesn't appear that the people involved in the petition are interested in being that transparent. Which is why I had to go to a debunker site just to see the actual decision.

This page on NYCCAN could have included the pdf, but did not. Why?
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Last edited by Brainster; 10th October 2009 at 01:36 AM.
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Old 10th October 2009, 02:27 AM   #803
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I know it's not supposed to be nice to dance on people's graves, but is this too much to hope for? Not only does their noisiest effort of the past year go down in flames, but before the wax is dry on the notary seal, they start cannibalizing the movement?

Be still, my heart!
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Old 10th October 2009, 02:40 AM   #804
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I know it's not supposed to be nice to dance on people's graves, but is this too much to hope for? Not only does their noisiest effort of the past year go down in flames, but before the wax is dry on the notary seal, they start cannibalizing the movement?

Be still, my heart!
Not nice? To paraphrase Megadeth, someday I will dance on their grave even if their buried at sea. As I once said so eloquently and truthfully, the truthotards are a bunch of impotent failures.
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Old 10th October 2009, 07:45 AM   #805
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
(Truther)

"Waiter, I would like the Fail fricassee, with a side of Fail fries, a Fail salad with Fail dressing, and for dessert, two scoops of frozen Fail, with Fail sauce and Fail sprinkles on top."

(borrowed from another member )
- with a decaff latte fail and some fail-flavoured mints, and a doggy-bag for any left-over fail.

Sorry, couldn't resist:

"Waiter! Could you please hail
My homebound yellow cab of FAIL.
Driver! Please take me to my pad,
I’m full of FAIL and feeling sad.
As up the brownstone steps I trudge.
My dose of FAIL just will not budge.
Oh! FAIL apartment, let me weep,
Fall on my bed of FAIL and sleep."

Last edited by ComsatAngel2017; 10th October 2009 at 08:02 AM. Reason: The muse struck.
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Old 10th October 2009, 07:48 AM   #806
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More seriously, last month (IIRC), an Anonymous poster over at Screw Loose Change claimed to have been involved with the ballot initiative at the beginning, but bailed out when Les Jamieson became involved, due to Les's patent inability.

Also, isn't NYCCAN the result of two different groups who were both pursuing a ballot initiative and who combined? If so, expect a split along these lines, with lots of finger-pointing and accusations of shillery.
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Old 10th October 2009, 08:22 AM   #807
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
There are "Truthers" like Victronix (aka Victoria Ashley, wife of Jim Hoffman), who have noted that disclosure was severely lacking by the NYC-CAN group, and bemoaned that they had to go to sites like SLC to find out the real scoop:

Heh. She had to go to a "debunker" website to find out the whole truth? *gasp* Horror of horrors!
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Old 10th October 2009, 09:11 AM   #808
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Heh. She had to go to a "debunker" website to find out the whole truth? *gasp* Horror of horrors!
Later on in the blog she said this:

Quote:
The JREfers and SLCers are to be ignored.
Wee bit of a contradiction here?
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Old 10th October 2009, 09:28 AM   #809
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So it's NYCCA*N. The New York City Coalition for Accountability* Now.

* - Except when being accountable is inconvenient to our delusions/cash flow.
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Old 10th October 2009, 11:36 AM   #810
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Heh. She had to go to a "debunker" website to find out the whole truth? *gasp* Horror of horrors!
Sweet irony.
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Old 10th October 2009, 12:21 PM   #811
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I know it's not supposed to be nice to dance on people's graves, but is this too much to hope for? Not only does their noisiest effort of the past year go down in flames, but before the wax is dry on the notary seal, they start cannibalizing the movement?

Be still, my heart!
That's been going on for quite a while, hasn't it?

Victoria Ashley called out CIT (and PfT) in "To Con a Movement". In "Discrediting by Association: Undermining the Case for Patriots Who Question 9/11", she tried to distance the truth movement(s) from Morgan Reynolds, David Shayler, Judy Wood, and James Fetzer.

The truthers are a mixed bag. Some of them admit it.

Will
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Old 10th October 2009, 01:37 PM   #812
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Sweet irony.

Indeed. I find it most amusing to keep seeing the link to Justice Lehner's decision being a link to the document uploaded to my site.
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Old 10th October 2009, 01:49 PM   #813
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
Indeed. I find it most amusing to keep seeing the link to Justice Lehner's decision being a link to the document uploaded to my site.
Oh the evil things you could do to someone who hotlinks to your site...

Not that I'm suggesting that you do anything of course.
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Old 10th October 2009, 01:56 PM   #814
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
There are "Truthers" like Victronix (aka Victoria Ashley, wife of Jim Hoffman), who have noted that disclosure was severely lacking by the NYC-CAN group, and bemoaned that they had to go to sites like SLC to find out the real scoop
Indeed, and although Ms. Ashley appears to be in the minority, it is good that at least some of them question the lack of transparency and accountability by a group purporting to be all about transparency and accountability. As jhunter noted, NYCCANT needs an asterisk in its name next to the A.

Also, several of the "truthers" over there appear to be wholly astounded by the decision, and do not seem to know how to find the materials submitted by counsel for the City Clerk, nor the Referee's report and recommendation, which was ultimately adopted in full by Justice Lehner.

Perhaps they missed them when they were posted here and here, or maybe they do not wish to sully their beautiful minds with *gasp* information, preferring to maintain their ignorance and engage in perpetual uninformed speculation. Hmm, that's a tough one.
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Old 10th October 2009, 02:13 PM   #815
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Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am View Post
Oh the evil things you could do to someone who hotlinks to your site...

Not that I'm suggesting that you do anything of course.
Now that would be cute. At the link they are using put a PDF by the same name of 100 fail pictures. Then put a new link to the real PDF
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Old 10th October 2009, 03:02 PM   #816
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Originally Posted by ~enigma~ View Post
Now that would be cute. At the link they are using put a PDF by the same name of 100 fail pictures. Then put a new link to the real PDF

As far as I am concerned, the current PDF is the equivalent of 100 fail pictures.
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Old 10th October 2009, 03:16 PM   #817
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Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
As far as I am concerned, the current PDF is the equivalent of 100 fail pictures.
Count again...it is worth 100 Ameros
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Old 10th October 2009, 03:38 PM   #818
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Ah crap, I was off by 90 Ameros.
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Old 10th October 2009, 06:01 PM   #819
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Originally Posted by Comsat Angel View Post
More seriously, last month (IIRC), an Anonymous poster over at Screw Loose Change claimed to have been involved with the ballot initiative at the beginning, but bailed out when Les Jamieson became involved, due to Les's patent inability.

Also, isn't NYCCAN the result of two different groups who were both pursuing a ballot initiative and who combined? If so, expect a split along these lines, with lots of finger-pointing and accusations of shillery.
Yes, as FMW pointed out to me, NYCCANT merged with the 9/11 Ballot Initiative earlier this year.

Someone called "rm" at 9/11 Blogger (I quoted him earlier) says 9/11 Ballot Initiative founder Carl Person helped write NYCANT's original petition, and rm now says:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/21583
Quote:
I don't think it's fair or accurate to generalize in this way about those involved in drafting the petition, as if there were no differences among them. Carl Person did endeavor to anticipate objections, and included provisions to have the investigation placed under the charge of a newly created public office. And it was Pepper who later wanted to remove those provisions, and Les went along with him. Those provisions were removed from the language of the petition, and Carl Person had no further involvement.

Discussed here:

http://www.911blogger.com/node/21515#comment-218563
ETA: So it seems 'rm' was saying the petition was good because Carl Person was involved, and now he's saying the petition is bad because Carl Person wasn't involved.
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Last edited by Orphia Nay; 10th October 2009 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 10th October 2009, 06:06 PM   #820
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Apparently, someone associated with "NYCCA*N'T" (think it was Jon Gold, wouldn't swear to it) identified most of the legal flaws in the petition last year, but was ignored. Jamieson and crew went on their merry way and put out the hopelessly flawed pile of fail that the judge recently and summarily dismissed.

* - "Accountability for other people, not for us"
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Old 10th October 2009, 07:23 PM   #821
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Originally Posted by ~enigma~ View Post
Now that would be cute. At the link they are using put a PDF by the same name of 100 fail pictures. Then put a new link to the real PDF

Heh - that is so tempting. Must...restrain...self.

Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
As far as I am concerned, the current PDF is the equivalent of 100 fail pictures.

Indeed. Self...restrained.
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Old 10th October 2009, 07:36 PM   #822
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Originally Posted by Comsat Angel View Post
- with a decaff latte fail and some fail-flavoured mints, and a doggy-bag for any left-over fail.

Sorry, couldn't resist:

"Waiter! Could you please hail
My homebound yellow cab of FAIL.
Driver! Please take me to my pad,
I’m full of FAIL and feeling sad.
As up the brownstone steps I trudge.
My dose of FAIL just will not budge.
Oh! FAIL apartment, let me weep,
Fall on my bed of FAIL and sleep."

Your muse is most amusing.
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Old 10th October 2009, 09:07 PM   #823
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ANd our old friend Bill Smith Finally comments on the NYCCAN'T fiasco....in another thread and it is pretty much what we expected:

Quote:
Let's face it....we all knew that there is no way that the authorities in New York or anywhere in America for that matter could ever allow an investigation like this. It could be (possibly even literally) the end of them.

But maybe the citizenry do not like to be slappd in the face ? There may be a more profound effect from this that has not yet bitten deep. There are now at least 100,000 joined-up citizens in New York who have ' gotten it '. We will have to see how it plays out.
THe Mind truly boggles.
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Old 11th October 2009, 06:01 AM   #824
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
I sincerely appreciate all of the thank you posts, but really, the thanks should rightly go to my contact, who provided the documents on such a timely basis. Had it not been for the fact that they were being posted here, the conspiracy fantasists behind NYCCANT would never have posted anything except their own propaganda for as long as they could string their gullible followers along, and I think that we collectively did a good job here at the JREF forums to force them to acknowledge reality, at least temporarily, as a direct result of the documents being posted here so that the NYCCANT conspiracy fantasists were forced into posting them after we did so here.

I am not going to publicly disclose the name of the person who made this all come together, but to "you know who you are": Thank you!

Cheers,
Lash
Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
Yes, thanks NWO Secret Agent #357!


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Old 11th October 2009, 08:00 AM   #825
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
Your muse is most amusing.
Thank you! Sometimes it strikes, sometimes not.
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Old 11th October 2009, 10:59 AM   #826
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
Heh - that is so tempting. Must...restrain...self.




Indeed. Self...restrained.
I hate to mess with your self control, but why not just put a fail picture or two before and after the text ... in another pdf of the same name, at the same location.
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Old 12th October 2009, 08:08 PM   #827
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post

Bwahahahaha. Good one (as usual) Horatius!
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Old 12th October 2009, 09:30 PM   #828
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I guess this would be a good time to add that NYCCANT did actually consult a real election lawyer (an experienced and well respected one) after they submitted their horrifically doomed-to-fail petition, but the real lawyer told them that their petition could not and would not possibly succeed.

So, NYCCANT carried on with its doomed-to-fail petition and its doomed-to-fail non-practicing lawyer, Dennis Whatsisname, instead of retaining the real lawyer, and instead of telling its membership that the petition could not possibly succeed.

NYCCANT chose to fleece as many naive truthers as possible for a few more dollars before it went down in flames, as it knew would happen.

Normally, one would say "good on ya" to NYCCANT for actually consulting a legitimate lawyer with legitimate experience (unlike that Dennis fellow), but NYCCANT never once told its gaggle of naive morons that it had received legal advice indicating that the petition was destined to fail, and NYCCANT knew that it was going to fail spectacularly but remained silent about that. Instead, NYCCANT strung its gaggle of "truther" lemmings along for as long as it could, right up to the enbarrassing failure that iresulted.

How frigging sad is that? Very, very sad.

Last edited by LashL; 12th October 2009 at 10:22 PM. Reason: blabbedy blah, edited for alcohol and such :)
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Old 12th October 2009, 10:35 PM   #829
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
How frigging sad is that? Very, very sad.

What is truly sad is that the people who could most benefit from this lesson, won't.
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Old 12th October 2009, 10:38 PM   #830
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post


Last edited by LashL; Today at 01:22 PM. Reason: blabbedy blah, edited for alcohol and such


Bolding mine.


Ooh, I love it when you talk all that legal mumbo jumbo and go all lawyerly and stuff, but I'm at work. Now I have to go take a cold shower.
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Old 13th October 2009, 12:38 AM   #831
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Wow. Just... wow. If I was a Truther and found this out, I would exit the movement forthwith. The fraudulence of these people truly boggles the mind.
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Old 13th October 2009, 02:09 AM   #832
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I missed this entirely. In the comments to the article on 911Blogger, Jon Gold posts that he's thinking of giving up his job and his apartment to move to DC (that part's implied) and chain himself to the White House fence every day with Cindy Sheehan.

Quote:
I may be... Participating in this(see link below). It all depends on whether or not I decide to give up my job, my apt, etc... If you don't care about those things, then I recommend you participate.

Edit: I would just like to say thank you to everyone that helped with this effort.

Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 10/09/2009 - 2:29pm.
(Parenthetical statement mine - FMW.)


http://cindysheehanssoapbox.blogspot...y-sheehan.html


So Cindy's giving up everything, moving to Washington DC and trying to get 5000 dedicated volunteers to agree to daily civil disobedience. There's apparently no plugging of 911 Conspiradroid crud - just an old fashioned peacenik action? And Jon Gold's thinking of joining her.

Is this yet another indication that the TM has essentially shot its wad? The career counter-culturists are moving on to fields that offer more permanent opportunities? (There's always a good war to protest, somewhere.)

Is Jon really capable of climbing up out of the rabbit hole and chucking 911 conspiracies to go all monkish on us and work for peace?

((I have many OTHER reasons to dislike Cindy and Jon - I have nothing against peace protesters, as such, having spent a number of years doing similar acts.))
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Old 13th October 2009, 02:16 AM   #833
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
I guess this would be a good time to add that NYCCANT did actually consult a real election lawyer (an experienced and well respected one) after they submitted their horrifically doomed-to-fail petition, but the real lawyer told them that their petition could not and would not possibly succeed.

So, NYCCANT carried on with its doomed-to-fail petition and its doomed-to-fail non-practicing lawyer, Dennis Whatsisname, instead of retaining the real lawyer, and instead of telling its membership that the petition could not possibly succeed.

NYCCANT chose to fleece as many naive truthers as possible for a few more dollars before it went down in flames, as it knew would happen.

Normally, one would say "good on ya" to NYCCANT for actually consulting a legitimate lawyer with legitimate experience (unlike that Dennis fellow), but NYCCANT never once told its gaggle of naive morons that it had received legal advice indicating that the petition was destined to fail, and NYCCANT knew that it was going to fail spectacularly but remained silent about that. Instead, NYCCANT strung its gaggle of "truther" lemmings along for as long as it could, right up to the enbarrassing failure that iresulted.

How frigging sad is that? Very, very sad.
Sad, pathetic, and despicable.

Who was the real election lawyer?
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Old 13th October 2009, 03:00 AM   #834
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Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
Sad, pathetic, and despicable.

Who was the real election lawyer?
Hmmm! If Lash hasn't given it already, then I suspect she's not going to at all. One reason being that the Twoof kooks might decide to harrass them.
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Old 13th October 2009, 08:00 AM   #835
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
How frigging sad is that? Very, very sad.
But hardly unexpected, considering Twoofers' relationship with reality.
Obviously, any lawyer that tells them they can't do what they want to do is in on it.
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Old 13th October 2009, 11:11 AM   #836
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
Normally, one would say "good on ya" to NYCCANT for actually consulting a legitimate lawyer with legitimate experience (unlike that Dennis fellow), but NYCCANT never once told its gaggle of naive morons that it had received legal advice indicating that the petition was destined to fail, and NYCCANT knew that it was going to fail spectacularly but remained silent about that. Instead, NYCCANT strung its gaggle of "truther" lemmings along for as long as it could, right up to the enbarrassing failure that iresulted.

How frigging sad is that? Very, very sad.
It would be sad if rational people were dumb enough to fall for it.

Seeing how only truthers fell for it, I'd say the whole things is downright hilarious.
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Old 14th October 2009, 12:49 AM   #837
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Originally Posted by Comsat Angel View Post
Hmmm! If Lash hasn't given it already, then I suspect she's not going to at all. One reason being that the Twoof kooks might decide to harrass them.
Yes.

On a different note... more twoofer fail.

Only 2 news agencies have reported this news (according to a Google News search).

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/o...w_10-13-09.php
(Basically just paraphrasing NYCCAN'T's press release.)

And:

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publ...cle_5196.shtml

which is full of appeals to emotion and false dichotomies, and a suggestion that Justice Lehner was threatened:

"Were you, too, “doomed to failure” by any visible or invisible “arm twisting,” the phone call, the voice in the night whispering “no,” the threat of a curtailed career? Could that possibly be? Or do you from the bottom of your heart agree that the 3,000 souls that perished at the World Trade Center did not merit another investigation, that their lives were expendable, the fatalities of an unpleasant inciting incident for a War on Terror very much like Pearl Harbor, which all of America had to suck up in 1941, in order to facilitate a late entry into a World War against the Axis?"

The author is a "freelance writer" and poet. Poets for 9/11 Truth, anyone?
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Old 14th October 2009, 12:55 AM   #838
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Hey I'm sure they will soon have
sk8ers for 9/11 truth
douchbags for 9/11 truth
and
dropouts for 9/11 truth
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Old 14th October 2009, 02:49 AM   #839
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Originally Posted by TruthersLie View Post
Hey I'm sure they will soon have
sk8ers for 9/11 truth
douchbags for 9/11 truth
and
dropouts for 9/11 truth
That doesn't rhyme.
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Old 14th October 2009, 04:07 AM   #840
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Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
The author is a "freelance writer" and poet. Poets for 9/11 Truth, anyone?
This dolt can start it up:

http://www.myspace.com/911poet
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