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Old 9th April 2022, 09:03 PM   #1
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Pakistan

Pakistan's Prime Minister Imran Khan has been ousted from power after losing a no-confidence vote in his leadership.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-61055210

Thought I'd start a general Pakistan thread.
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Old 9th April 2022, 09:16 PM   #2
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Pakistani politics has always been a hotbed of intrigue, betrayals and double-dealings. This is hardly new. Expect riots now, and the next PM to suffer a similar fate.
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Old 9th April 2022, 09:17 PM   #3
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It’s always worrying when a nation with nuclear weapons is unstable.
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Old 10th April 2022, 05:55 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
It’s always worrying when a nation with nuclear weapons is unstable.
My thoughts exactly.
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Old 10th April 2022, 06:39 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
It’s always worrying when a nation with nuclear weapons is unstable.
Pakistan is hardly stable even at the best of times. I doubt this current circus actually changes much.
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Old 10th April 2022, 07:26 AM   #6
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It's worth noting, that in this particular case, the system - such that it is - appears to have worked.

Khan's party tried to duck out of a no confidence motion he would have lost, the Supreme Court stepped in and said "Not so fast", and the motion was voted on and passed.

It's interesting to note that the Pakistani military appears to have acted passively in this, aside from apparently subtly letting Khan and deputy speaker Suri know they weren't pleased with their behaviour.
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Old 10th April 2022, 07:34 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
It’s always worrying when a nation with nuclear weapons is unstable.
My understanding is that the Pakistani weapons are disassembled, with the subassemblies stored at separate sites. And that there is some degree of distance between the military units controlling access and assembly, and the politicians running the government. So, ironically, it would have to be a very stable Pakistan, with a lot of alignment between government and military, to actually get the nuke parts out of storage, put them together, and start using them. Like if India was about to overrun the country or something.
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Old 10th April 2022, 12:37 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Pakistani politics has always been a hotbed of intrigue, betrayals and double-dealings. This is hardly new. Expect riots now, and the next PM to suffer a similar fate.
You lose track of the coups after a while.
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Old 10th April 2022, 12:39 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
It’s always worrying when a nation with nuclear weapons is unstable.
True, but when has Pakistan not been unstable?
And India is no better under that nutjob Modi.
What is worrying is with Pakistan and India you have two nations with nukes that just plain hate each other.
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Old 11th April 2022, 12:37 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
True, but when has Pakistan not been unstable?
And India is no better under that nutjob Modi.
What is worrying is with Pakistan and India you have two nations with nukes that just plain hate each other.
The thing is that the current government in India, they hate a large number of its ow citizens. Pakistan is just an excuse to oppress a large number of our own population...and I am not talking just about the Muslims in India.

From what I hear, the probable replacement is from the Nawaz Sharief camp. And Sharief and Modi have rather cozy relationship where each "helps" the other with poll numbers. The maximum number of attacks by "Pakistani insurgents" in India has been when Modi's "close friend" Sharief was at the helm in Pakistan. Most of these attacks helped greatly in the polls for Modi and the BJP.
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Old 11th April 2022, 01:55 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You lose track of the coups after a while.
Even inside elected governments.
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Old 12th April 2022, 03:05 AM   #12
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Once again demonstrating what happens if you're the Prime Minister of Pakistan and fall out of favour with the army.

I was uncomfortable with the way that Imran Khan was pandering to the religious nutjobs, but I think I'm even more uncomfortable with the Pakistan Army being the voice of moderation.
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Old 13th April 2022, 10:36 AM   #13
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I'm not normally an optimist, but this looks a lot better than the even more newsworthy changes of govrenment that Pakistan has had in the past.
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Old 13th April 2022, 03:26 PM   #14
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Pakistan

For posterity's sake:

"Shehbaz Sharif elected as new Prime Minister of Pakistan completing the ousting of predecessor Imran Khan"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-...khan/100983938

"Shehbaz, 70, who has a reputation domestically as an effective administrator more than as a politician, is the younger brother of three-time prime minister Nawaz Sharif.

"Analysts say Shehbaz, unlike Nawaz, enjoys amicable relations with Pakistan's military, which traditionally controls foreign and defence policy in the nuclear-armed nation of 220 million people."

"Just minutes before the vote, legislators from Mr Khan's party resigned en masse from the lower house of parliament in protest at the expected formation of a government by his political opponents.

''The mass resignations will require fresh by-elections in well over 100 seats."

Last edited by Orphia Nay; 13th April 2022 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 13th April 2022, 04:00 PM   #15
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The arc of Nawaz Sharif's career is just insane.
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Old 3rd May 2022, 07:02 PM   #16
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Now, after recently supporting blasphemy laws, Imran Khan has been charged with blasphemy.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2354994...masjid-e-nabwi
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Old 3rd November 2022, 02:56 PM   #17
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Imran Khan has been shot in the leg while participating in a protest for early elections.

Imran Khan: Pakistan ex-prime minister wounded at protest march https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-63496202
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Old 3rd November 2022, 03:03 PM   #18
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Just when Pakistan ggot some good publicity because of
"Ms Marvel"
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Old 9th May 2023, 05:42 PM   #19
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Imran Khan has been arrested in Pakistan.

"ISLAMABAD (AP) — Pakistan’s former Prime Minister Imran Khan was arrested and dragged from court Tuesday as he appeared to face charges in multiple graft cases, a dramatic escalation of political tensions that sparked violent demonstrations by his angry supporters across the country."


"Khan was removed from the Islamabad High Court by security agents from the National Accountability Bureau, said Fawad Chaudhry, a senior official with his Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf party, and then shoved into an armored car and whisked away."


https://apnews.com/article/55a53535b...9c9b57b0bc9a54
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Old 9th May 2023, 05:49 PM   #20
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Shows just how hardline and determined the military is.

Absolute outrage.
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Old 9th May 2023, 05:53 PM   #21
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Yes, it's an absolute outrage.

Utter chaos that the military have such power.
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Old 10th May 2023, 07:01 PM   #22
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Khan's being held for 8 days, meanwhile the country is pretty much in chaos, with a weekly inflation rate of 46%.

https://apnews.com/article/9132cc405...72c3f4eb1ea07e
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Old 10th May 2023, 07:56 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Yes, it's an absolute outrage.

Utter chaos that the military have such power.
More like the Military has a dozen generals, each seeing himself as the next leader.
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Old 10th May 2023, 07:57 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Khan's being held for 8 days, meanwhile the country is pretty much in chaos, with a weekly inflation rate of 46%.

https://apnews.com/article/9132cc405...72c3f4eb1ea07e
God, now both India and Pakistan are going down the tubes.
And they baiscally hate each other, and both have nukes. Scary.
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Old 11th May 2023, 10:54 AM   #25
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Supreme Court has ordered his release, but it's not clear if he's actually been let go yet.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-65561807
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Old 14th May 2023, 08:02 PM   #26
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Thr military shut down the country's internet out of fear of Khan's numerous supporters online:

"Pakistan shut down the internet - but that didn't stop the protests"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-65541769
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Old 16th October 2023, 02:26 PM   #27
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179 people are currently under arrest in Pakistan for blasphemy.

17 have been convicted.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1780893
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Old 16th October 2023, 02:54 PM   #28
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Those seem like rookie numbers, for Pakistan.
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Old 16th October 2023, 04:01 PM   #29
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The problem is are you better being accused of blasphemy and arrested to not being arrested?

I hate this sectarian / religious violence. I know people who believe in this nonsense, that the Koran is divine, that insulting the Quran is insulting god. As an atheist I only despair.

But in the tribal territories you are probably safer if arrested than not. Safer does not mean safe.
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Old 16th October 2023, 04:07 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Those seem like rookie numbers, for Pakistan.
I was reading they might be using blasphemy charges to crack dwon on opponents to the regime.
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Old 14th November 2023, 05:32 AM   #31
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YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Tribal People Learn about The Solar System Part 02

Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
The problem is are you better being accused of blasphemy and arrested to not being arrested?

I hate this sectarian / religious violence. I know people who believe in this nonsense, that the Koran is divine, that insulting the Quran is insulting god. As an atheist I only despair.

But in the tribal territories you are probably safer if arrested than not. Safer does not mean safe.

The video is of tribal people from Sindh in Pakistan learning about our solar system. The two men are of the muslim religion. The lady is an adherant of hindu. At the 17:30 mark in the video, Abdul Aziz Rind doesn't want any more explanation. (Keep in mind the contribution to astronomy from the medieval islamic world.) I don't know what caste Parvati Bheel was born into but the questions she asks [ETA: in video Part 01] is beyond her Grade 5 schooling. Muharam Khan Bughio is the other participant.

While the host is university educated and well-meaning, I've watched some of his Trybals channel on YouTube and his cultural insensitivity can be be appalling. Here, I'm also wary of selective editing.

The highlighted text is a conclusion arrived at via speculation.

Last edited by dellarte; 14th November 2023 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 15th November 2023, 02:26 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
The problem is are you better being accused of blasphemy and arrested to not being arrested?

I hate this sectarian / religious violence. I know people who believe in this nonsense, that the Koran is divine, that insulting the Quran is insulting god. As an atheist I only despair.

But in the tribal territories you are probably safer if arrested than not. Safer does not mean safe.
Who would arrest you in the tribal areas?
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Old 18th November 2023, 03:32 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by dellarte View Post
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Tribal People Learn about The Solar System Part 02




The video is of tribal people from Sindh in Pakistan learning about our solar system. The two men are of the muslim religion. The lady is an adherant of hindu. At the 17:30 mark in the video, Abdul Aziz Rind doesn't want any more explanation. (Keep in mind the contribution to astronomy from the medieval islamic world.) I don't know what caste Parvati Bheel was born into but the questions she asks [ETA: in video Part 01] is beyond her Grade 5 schooling. Muharam Khan Bughio is the other participant.

While the host is university educated and well-meaning, I've watched some of his Trybals channel on YouTube and his cultural insensitivity can be be appalling. Here, I'm also wary of selective editing.

The highlighted text is a conclusion arrived at via speculation.
The "surname" Bheel indicates that she belongs to the tribal community of Bheel/Bhil.
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Old 18th November 2023, 05:21 AM   #34
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Tribal lady Parvati learns about the Earth, Moon & Sun


Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
The "surname" Bheel indicates that she belongs to the tribal community of Bheel/Bhil.
Thank-you. Her first name, Parvati, indicates she is named after the goddess. Search engine tells me in 2011 Bhil was the largest tribal group in India (she and her family reside in Pakistan and they're hindu). The Bhils are labeled a "scheduled tribe", meaning that they have low status... https://joshuaproject.net/people_groups/16414/IN and to be a christian Bhil is the lowest status within the Bhil.

In this YT episode, Parvati mentions she thinks there are different moons that appear in different parts of Earth and that the United States is on another planet - although there might be something lost in translation there. She also thought that the sun that appears in Karachi is different to the one that appears where she lives.

She's educated to 5th grade and learns things from movies. I'm not sure if she has a cell phone or if she knows how to use one.

The host did well in this episode, showed respect, exemplary understanding and modesty.

Last edited by dellarte; 18th November 2023 at 05:51 AM. Reason: Corrected URL title and name spelling.
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Old 3rd February 2024, 08:43 PM   #35
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Fascinating - if appalling situation in Pakistan, with Imran Khan given jail sentences as follows:

14 years for illegally selling state gifts
10 years for leaking state secrets
7 years for an illegal marriage {his wife got the same)

The opposition may well think having him out of the way is a good thing, but martyrs gain support and putting him in jail might well turn out to be the death knell of the military/intelligence alliance that dominates the country.

Interesting times ahead.
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Old 11th February 2024, 06:06 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
...The opposition may well think having him out of the way is a good thing, but martyrs gain support and putting him in jail might well turn out to be the death knell of the military/intelligence alliance that dominates the country. Interesting times ahead.
Looks like that is exactly what's happening. CNN reports:
Quote:
Pakistan’s official election results were announced by the election commission on Sunday, with independent candidates affiliated with former Prime Minister Imran Khan’s Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) party securing the most seats [102] in parliament...None of the three major parties of the country will win the necessary 169 seats to have a majority in parliament and, therefore, will be unable to form government on their own, leaving it unclear who will be picked as the country’s next prime minister. CNN news link
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Old 11th February 2024, 06:18 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Looks like that is exactly what's happening. CNN reports:
Too early to say, but Khan has enormous support,so we can at least hope.
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Old 12th February 2024, 01:11 PM   #38
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From my vantage point in the United States I used to see political events like this in other countries and never could really understand how things could get to that point.

Now I know.
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Old 12th February 2024, 08:57 PM   #39
dudalb
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Looks like that is exactly what's happening. CNN reports:
You really think the Military in Pakistan will not overthrow the elections if they think it threatens their power?
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Old 13th February 2024, 06:07 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Too early to say, but Khan has enormous support,so we can at least hope.
I wouldn't put too much hope in Khan. The western media forget he's as authoritarian as his opponents.
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