IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Computers and the Internet
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 14th October 2021, 08:39 PM   #1
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 19,630
Printer nightmare....

...or How the Incompetent Code Monkeys at Microsoft Managed to Bork Network Shared Printing World-wide.

It all began in August when Microsoft released an update (KB5005565) that was supposed to address a vulnerability the Windows 10 sprint spooler... "A remote code execution vulnerability exists when the Windows Print Spooler service improperly performs privileged file operations." An unintended side-effect of the update was that printing to a network printer hosted by a Windows 8 or 10 computer stopped working. In some cases, the attempts would be accompanied by error 0x0000011b, in other cases, no error code appear, but it just doesn't print and when you go Devices & Printers and open the print dialog for that printer, the print job has "Access denied" in the Status column.

This issue only appears to happen when printing to network shared printers, that is printers attached, say via USB, to a host windows computer or print server, and you are trying to print to them from a client computer. It does not appear to effect network attached printers, that is printers that are directly connected to a network using their own built in Wi-Fi adaptor, or using an Ethernet cable to a network port.

A search of the internet revealed two possible workarounds

Option 1 - Uninstall KB5005565 and use wushowhide.diagcab (available from the Microsoft website) to block the update from downloading and installing, and

Option 2 - 1 Uninstall KB5005565 and find (or if it doesn't exist, create) the registry key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Print\ and set the DWORD value of RpcAuthnLevelPrivacyEnabled to 0.

These workarounds were only necessary on the host machine, the one with the printer(s). Option 2 fixed it for me, and everything was going swimmingly, until this week, when, wouldn't you know it, the idiot Microsoft Code Monkeys went and did it again. This update KB5006670 borked printing to network shared printers, even with the above mentioned registry key correctly set.

Again a search of the internet revealed two possible workarounds

Option 1 - Uninstall KB5006670 and use wushowhide.diagcab to block the update from downloading and installing, and

Option 2 - Leave KB5006670 installed, and get a copy of Win32spl.dll (its in C:\Windows\System32) from a non-updated machine and overwrite the existing file on the updated machine.

I mean, what the actual **** is going on here. Don't these idiots test their updates before they release them?

Anaaanyway... the issue here is that, apparently, this issue only affects network shared printers that were not installed "with Administrative Privileges" Well, unless I have done something wrong, I installed and shared all the printers at my business using my Admin Account, and I still got hit with this problem... twice!
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!

Last edited by smartcooky; 14th October 2021 at 09:02 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th October 2021, 10:09 PM   #2
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
 
Blue Mountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg
Posts: 6,717
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
...or How the Incompetent Code Monkeys at Microsoft Managed to Bork Network Shared Printing World-wide.

(snip)

I mean, what the actual **** is going on here. Don't these idiots test their updates before they release them?
The short answer is "No." Years ago Microsoft got rid of most of their Windows QA folks in favour of a programme that lets people who wish to live on the edge download, install, and run pre-release versions of their updates. They rely on feedback from these people to find and report bugs.

This is, in fact, very similar to how the Linux kernel is developed and tested.

Unfortunately, with so many diverse combinations of systems out there, it's inevitable that some bugs won't be caught in the pre-release phase because none of the people testing it have that combination of hardware and software running. So updates with bugs end up getting released, and only then does Microsoft discover the edge cases.

Obligatory Linux pitch (because it's me): Does the printer have to run from a Windows machine? Would a small hardware print server or Linux system do the trick?
__________________
The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French)
Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum.
Blue Mountain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th October 2021, 10:30 PM   #3
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 19,630
Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
The short answer is "No." Years ago Microsoft got rid of most of their Windows QA folks in favour of a programme that lets people who wish to live on the edge download, install, and run pre-release versions of their updates. They rely on feedback from these people to find and report bugs.

This is, in fact, very similar to how the Linux kernel is developed and tested.

Unfortunately, with so many diverse combinations of systems out there, it's inevitable that some bugs won't be caught in the pre-release phase because none of the people testing it have that combination of hardware and software running. So updates with bugs end up getting released, and only then does Microsoft discover the edge cases.
Useless bastards then.

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Obligatory Linux pitch (because it's me): Does the printer have to run from a Windows machine? Would a small hardware print server or Linux system do the trick?
Unfortunately, yes. The network printing side is the printer's secondary operation,. Its primary operation used proprietary software that cannot "see" network printers at all, of if I were to install the two printers on a Linux server, it would not work.
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2021, 05:52 AM   #4
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 61,263
From my past experience, both professional and personal, I would say that "printer nightmare" is a tautology. Printers have caused me to crawl around on operating room floors, printers have caused me to drive hundreds of miles in the dead of the night after a full working day, printers have caused me to swear at my mama. Even when I worked in a publishing company the printers didn't behave. I firmly believe humanity will achieve interstellar colonization before it gets printers that work properly most of the time.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2021, 08:02 AM   #5
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,450
So it isn't just my company. We have had to manually re-install drivers for several thousand users. Luckily, we discovered that once you do the first one, it works for all the rest. It's just a royal PITA. We can't even fix it with a general policy update
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2021, 08:46 AM   #6
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 10,992
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
From my past experience, both professional and personal, I would say that "printer nightmare" is a tautology. Printers have caused me to crawl around on operating room floors, printers have caused me to drive hundreds of miles in the dead of the night after a full working day, printers have caused me to swear at my mama. Even when I worked in a publishing company the printers didn't behave. I firmly believe humanity will achieve interstellar colonization before it gets printers that work properly most of the time.
Yeah, printers really are the bane of my existence. I think it's because they keep trying to get them to do more and more **** and it's getting to the point where it's just too damn much.

I haven't had any issues at all with the updates, but I download them and test them in a virtual environment before my end users get them. I also don't have any USB tethered printers, they're all network based.

I'm not sure what a good fix for smartcooky's issue would be given that he has to use the proprietary software. Statically set the PC, remove the gateway and DNS so it can't get to the internet and just don't do the updates? It would continue to work, and still give you internal access.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2021, 01:49 PM   #7
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 11,019
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The network printing side is the printer's secondary operation,. Its primary operation used proprietary software that cannot "see" network printers at all, of if I were to install the two printers on a Linux server, it would not work.
Can I ask what this is? That's VERY odd, in my experience.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2021, 02:40 PM   #8
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 19,630
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Can I ask what this is? That's VERY odd, in my experience.
Epson Surelab OrderController

https://www.epson.com.au/large-forma...?ID=C12C843926

It is used to operate a range of Epson Commercial Printers; in our case, we are operating two Epson Surelab D700s, and an Epson SureColour P5070 .

The printers have to be on a USB connection, and installed with driver/maintenance software that is specific to the printer, and each printer selected in the OrderController from a dropdown list. That list only contains printers that are compatible with the software, so even if you have another printer of a different brand connected via USB (for example, we have a Star TSP100 thermal receipt printer) it won't be on the list, so OrderController cannot see it. Even a compatible printer connected by network is not visible in the dropdown list.

Just as an aside, along similar lines on the input side, the OrderController will only see Drives and Folders, and then only image file types, so it only sees .jpg, .tif, .png, .eps, .bmp, .heic and .psd files - it sees no other file types. Also, it does not see links, so if you have a link to a folder of images on another computer, it won't see them. The only way to see them is to map the folder as a network drive.
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2021, 02:50 PM   #9
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 43,578
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
From my past experience, both professional and personal, I would say that "printer nightmare" is a tautology. Printers have caused me to crawl around on operating room floors, printers have caused me to drive hundreds of miles in the dead of the night after a full working day, printers have caused me to swear at my mama. Even when I worked in a publishing company the printers didn't behave. I firmly believe humanity will achieve interstellar colonization before it gets printers that work properly most of the time.
The first big SAP implementation project I worked on. The sage guru warned us to be beware of the printers.

Those words came back to haunt me over the years.

There was one project, for example, where they wanted to print their whole inventory or something just as stupid. I mean, why have computers when you can print so much in one report that it uses more than a whole ream of paper.

When the paper tray emptied an alert was sent back to the Unix print spooler. The print spooler would then restart the printing from the the start because it detected an error.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2021, 02:56 PM   #10
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 19,630
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
So it isn't just my company. We have had to manually re-install drivers for several thousand users. Luckily, we discovered that once you do the first one, it works for all the rest. It's just a royal PITA. We can't even fix it with a general policy update
The first issue, KB5005565 was only affecting the printe host computer. As long as you didnt have KB5005565 installed on it, or if you did have it installed, you have the the registry key...

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Print\RpcAuthnLevelPrivacyEnabled to 0

...then there is no problem, even if the clients have the update.

The problems came with the second update, KB5006670, which seemed to affect some client computers and not others, but getting Win32spl.dll from a NON-KB5006670 updated machine, and overwriting the file in C:\Windows\System32 on the updated machine seems to fix the issue.
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2021, 08:07 PM   #11
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 43,578
It says here ...
Quote:
Order Controller is supplied as a site license that is linked to a physical location. It requires a 64bit PC running Windows (Win 7 Pro/Ultimate or higher) with 8GB of memory and reasonable HDD storage. It can be configured to run as a background application on a stand-alone PC or as a network server. Each copy can be used to drive up to 4 printers with the licensing supporting installation of multiple copies on the same network at a single location. The software can be enhanced with an optional Layout & ID extension (C12C848061) that enables easy production of passport photos, images with custom borders & layouts.

I assume that means it networks only with printers with a network interface and yours have USB.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th October 2021, 09:43 PM   #12
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 19,630
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
It says here ...

I assume that means it networks only with printers with a network interface and yours have USB.
Yes, but you achieve nothing. The printers still have to be connected to the network server via USB and then OrderController runs as a background application on that server, for the sole purpose of running the printers. That is for larger lab setups that have OrderController on multiple client computers. Even if you share the printers using Windows, on OrderController on the client computers you will not see those network printers printers listed in the dropdown list because the software itself does all the network communications.

We have OrderController set up as a print workstation. It connects to two photo kiosks where customers can place orders using their smartphone or a camera card or USB stick. Staff members can also help a customer directly at the print workstation. Also, the print workstation can access "hotfolders" on other computers (the hotfolders are shared as drives) for print work such as scanned slides, negatives and prints.

All of the above covers about 85% of our printed work; the other 15% is odd jobs that are not done on the OrderController, or that it cannot handle such as PDF poster printing, passport, visa and ID photos, Calendars, Collages and odd print sizes, such as Instagram prints and Polaroid format prints. For this, we have all three printers shared on the network and we print these jobs to them from other applications that do see network printers (Adobe PhotoShop, Illustrator and Lightroom, ACDSee Ultimate and CorelDraw).

Its that other 15% of the work that gets stopped by the bad updates.

Keep in mind that every installation of OrderController is AUD$1,800 plus a monthly fee. Currently we have just one. If you wanted to use it from all our other client computers that would be another 4 x AUD$1,800 and four monthly fees.
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!

Last edited by smartcooky; 15th October 2021 at 09:46 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th October 2021, 08:49 AM   #13
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 31,664
Jeez! My own advice is to get someone else to do your printing for you. Pay them if necessary.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th October 2021, 10:48 AM   #14
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 19,630
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Jeez! My own advice is to get someone else to do your printing for you. Pay them if necessary.
We print... that's what our business is. We have about NZD$25,000 invested in printers and computers. Most of our work is "while you wait" or at the very least, same day. That is near impossible to achieve if some other business is doing your printing for you.

Besides, we aren't the only ones having this problem, its global. Some of the larger businesses than ours in our trade are reporting they have one of the staff almost full time going around trying to fix these printer issues faster than Microsoft updates are breaking them.
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!

Last edited by smartcooky; 16th October 2021 at 10:56 AM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th October 2021, 10:24 PM   #15
Blue Mountain
Resident Skeptical Hobbit
 
Blue Mountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg
Posts: 6,717
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
From my past experience, both professional and personal, I would say that "printer nightmare" is a tautology. Printers have caused me to crawl around on operating room floors, printers have caused me to drive hundreds of miles in the dead of the night after a full working day, printers have caused me to swear at my mama. Even when I worked in a publishing company the printers didn't behave. I firmly believe humanity will achieve interstellar colonization before it gets printers that work properly most of the time.
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
The first big SAP implementation project I worked on. The sage guru warned us to be beware of the printers.

Those words came back to haunt me over the years.
Over on Reddit's tales from tech support forum there's a running joke that part of the design process for a new printer line is summoning a demon from Hell to possess it.
__________________
The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French)
Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum.
Blue Mountain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2021, 04:30 AM   #16
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 11,019
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Ah, OK. Photo lab setup. Groovy.

Quote:
It is used to operate a range of Epson Commercial Printers; in our case, we are operating two Epson Surelab D700s, and an Epson SureColour P5070 .
Nice kit!

Quote:
The printers have to be on a USB connection, and installed with driver/maintenance software that is specific to the printer, ...
Not both of those models. The P5070 is supposed to have a high-speed (1Gb/S) LAN connection as well as USB. So you could put it on a different interface. Not sure if that is advantageous for you, except perhaps physically locating the printer further away in the lab?? The D700 appears to be USB 3.0 only. Meh.

Quote:
...and each printer selected in the OrderController from a dropdown list. That list only contains printers that are compatible with the software, so even if you have another printer of a different brand connected via USB (for example, we have a Star TSP100 thermal receipt printer) it won't be on the list, so OrderController cannot see it. Even a compatible printer connected by network is not visible in the dropdown list.
The order software spec says it has a specific limited set of supported printers, what look to be Epson photo printers. But it doesn't care if they are USB or network connected, a couple of the other supported Epson models you are not using are LAN-capable as well. It seems to be using the printer drivers to identify those printers which it will support, hence the requirement to have the printers installed properly and switched on beforehand.

Quote:
Just as an aside, along similar lines on the input side, the OrderController will only see Drives and Folders, and then only image file types, so it only sees .jpg, .tif, .png, .eps, .bmp, .heic and .psd files - it sees no other file types. Also, it does not see links, so if you have a link to a folder of images on another computer, it won't see them. The only way to see them is to map the folder as a network drive.
Yep, there's a difference. It appears to be designed specifically for THIS shop or lab RIGHT HERE, and that it will be all self-contained in one physical location. So you are should probably plan how you will map drives. But that also means you can employ shares from a central file server or NAS in that design, so there's plenty of scope for thinking bigger.

The software seems quite basic but (hopefully) robust. So it is not doing anything fancy - just one job, but does it well (hopefully). So don't try to out-think it. KISS. Use what you have available.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2021, 04:39 AM   #17
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 26,026
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Can I ask what this is? That's VERY odd, in my experience.
It used to be pretty common in Ye Olde Days; the software only 'saw' physical ports (or redirected ones). Some couldn't see USB ports either.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2021, 05:16 AM   #18
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 99,085
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
It used to be pretty common in Ye Olde Days; the software only 'saw' physical ports (or redirected ones). Some couldn't see USB ports either.
LPT1:

__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2021, 06:22 AM   #19
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,605
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
LPT1:

RS-232. CTS? RTS?
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2021, 08:24 AM   #20
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 26,026
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
LPT1:

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
RS-232. CTS? RTS?

NET USE LPT1: \\THISPC\USBPRINTER
After sharing the local USB printer because the app doesn't do USB.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2021, 11:47 AM   #21
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 19,630
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Not both of those models. The P5070 is supposed to have a high-speed (1Gb/S) LAN connection as well as
USB.
I tried that when I first set it up, plugging the P5070 into an Ethernet socket.

Yes, you can print to it via the network using the other applications but NOT OrderController. When you look in the dropdown list, its not there. This is because when OrderController starts up, it looks at what it has connected to the USB ports... any compatible printers that are plugged in are listed in the dropdown list. Network printers are not even looked at and are not listed.... and here's the kicker. If you try to plug that printer into both, it doesn't even show up on the network, but as soon as you unplug the USB, the printer comes online... plug it into USB, the printer goes offline (it must have some internal switch that disconnects its network adaptor when the USB is plugged in) The only way to share it on a network is using a windows share, and you're back with printer nightmare. All this is moot anyway, because 99.9% of that printer's work is done with the OrderController since all the preset sizes we use for printing on it are set up on that.

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
The order software spec says it has a specific limited set of supported printers, what look to be Epson photo printers. But it doesn't care if they are USB or network connected, a couple of the other supported Epson models you are not using are LAN-capable as well. It seems to be using the printer drivers to identify those printers which it will support, hence the requirement to have the printers installed properly and switched on beforehand
.

Nope. I have been over this with the IPS IT guys in Australia. OrderController only sees compatible printers, and only when they are connected via USB, nothing else. It does not see network connected printers, even compatible ones. It even says that in the user manual.
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2021, 01:03 PM   #22
Ryokan
Insert something funny here
 
Ryokan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 10,479
I don't use my printer often, but today I had to print out something.

I've been fighting my printer all day. I tried everything. It refused to print.

In the end I had to use my phone to print it, and that worked.

I guess I haven't been alone. I thought it was the printer being an ******* like printers always are.
Ryokan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2021, 01:57 PM   #23
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 11,019
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I tried that when I first set it up, plugging the P5070 into an Ethernet socket.

Yes, you can print to it via the network using the other applications but NOT OrderController. When you look in the dropdown list, its not there. This is because when OrderController starts up, it looks at what it has connected to the USB ports... any compatible printers that are plugged in are listed in the dropdown list. Network printers are not even looked at and are not listed.... and here's the kicker. If you try to plug that printer into both, it doesn't even show up on the network, but as soon as you unplug the USB, the printer comes online... plug it into USB, the printer goes offline (it must have some internal switch that disconnects its network adaptor when the USB is plugged in) The only way to share it on a network is using a windows share, and you're back with printer nightmare. All this is moot anyway, because 99.9% of that printer's work is done with the OrderController since all the preset sizes we use for printing on it are set up on that.
Out of curiosity, did you try setting it up using Telnet protocol? That makes it appear as a "serial printer port" to Windows. which is (more or less) how USB-connected printers appear as well. This is not a Windows "share" arrangement.

.

Quote:
Nope. I have been over this with the IPS IT guys in Australia. OrderController only sees compatible printers, and only when they are connected via USB, nothing else. It does not see network connected printers, even compatible ones. It even says that in the user manual.
Yep, I had a quick glance through the user manual.

Compatible printers is understood. But that is from a capability and compliance viewpoint. Epson software built for Epson printers of a specific model list. Keep the user "on brand". OK, then.

I'm just curious though about the connectivity. Having worked with high-end photo printers some years ago (HP), the IT response to a restriction like this seems to be more a response of "that's how we have always done it" than "have not tried it, let's test".
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2021, 01:32 AM   #24
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 19,630
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Out of curiosity, did you try setting it up using Telnet protocol? That makes it appear as a "serial printer port" to Windows. which is (more or less) how USB-connected printers appear as well. This is not a Windows "share" arrangement.
You might be talking stuff above my pay grade now

Do you mean, as in, it is still connected to the host via USB, but it also connected to the network using telnet? If so, I have no idea how to go about that in Windows 10 (I could probably do it from memory if we were talking DOS 3.1 or even Unix).


Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Yep, I had a quick glance through the user manual.
Compatible printers is understood. But that is from a capability and compliance viewpoint. Epson software built for Epson printers of a specific model list. Keep the user "on brand". OK, then.
You pretty much have to load each printer you want to use, and assign it to a channel that is related to the paper loaded in the target printer for that channel it. We have one printer for Glossy and another for Lustre, each up to 21cm wide, and the P5070 deals with everything above 21cm wide. When you do an order, you specify the paper type and print size, and the OrderController automatically send the job to the correct printer.

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
I'm just curious though about the connectivity. Having worked with high-end photo printers some years ago (HP), the IT response to a restriction like this seems to be more a response of "that's how we have always done it" than "have not tried it, let's test".
I spent an entire long weekend trying wrangle the printer and OrderController so that the network printer could be seen. I even tried (and failed) to connect it as a local printer using the host IP number or printer name as the Local Port name.
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2021, 04:04 AM   #25
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Gundungurra
Posts: 11,019
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You might be talking stuff above my pay grade now.
Nah, it's pretty simple really.

Quote:
Do you mean, as in, it is still connected to the host via USB, but it also connected to the network using telnet? If so, I have no idea how to go about that in Windows 10 (I could probably do it from memory if we were talking DOS 3.1 or even Unix).
Depends on the printer model and firmware. HP's will do this. Not knowing the Epson that well at all and certainly not your models, I would say "Yes". Or perhaps "No".

Quote:
I spent an entire long weekend trying wrangle the printer and OrderController so that the network printer could be seen. I even tried (and failed) to connect it as a local printer using the host IP number or printer name as the Local Port name.
Hmmm, you probably got closer than you thought.

While the below method doesn't use the term "telnet", it is the method for connecting a networked printer. Hopefully it will be talking telnet protocol with the printer via port 9100. This was an HP standard which, due to their sheer bulk and inertia, most other printer manufacturers complied with.

Windows 10 & 8

https://www.technipages.com/windows-...via-ip-address
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


You can test if your printer is compatible by getting a telnet session to it (from Linux is easier) on port 9100. If it responds sensibly then it should be able to set up us a network printer. No guarantees though.

LinuxPrompt> telnet <printer IP> 9100
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th October 2021, 12:11 AM   #26
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 19,630
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Nah, it's pretty simple really.

Depends on the printer model and firmware. HP's will do this. Not knowing the Epson that well at all and certainly not your models, I would say "Yes". Or perhaps "No".

Hmmm, you probably got closer than you thought.

While the below method doesn't use the term "telnet", it is the method for connecting a networked printer. Hopefully it will be talking telnet protocol with the printer via port 9100. This was an HP standard which, due to their sheer bulk and inertia, most other printer manufacturers complied with.

Windows 10 & 8

https://www.technipages.com/windows-...via-ip-address
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


You can test if your printer is compatible by getting a telnet session to it (from Linux is easier) on port 9100. If it responds sensibly then it should be able to set up us a network printer. No guarantees though.

LinuxPrompt> telnet <printer IP> 9100

Thank you Norman, I will give this a try on Sunday!
__________________
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Computers and the Internet

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:48 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.