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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , election conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump supporters

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Old 18th January 2022, 07:16 PM   #201
Warp12
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Actually, facts do matter. You should try using them now and again, instead of just repeating right wing propaganda.

Democrats have wanted a fair and impartial investigation from the beginning. That's why they initially proposed an independent committee, when they were under no obligation to do so.

Republicans, naturally, blocked this effort. And now they caterwaul about the committee being "politically motivated" when in fact, it's their obstructionism that made it political.

Democrats are acting good faith. Republicans - and the brain-dead cultists who parrot their lies on message boards - are not.
As I say, at least we are in agreement that the committee is highly partisan.
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Old 18th January 2022, 07:24 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Actually, facts do matter. You should try using them now and again, instead of just repeating right wing propaganda.

Democrats have wanted a fair and impartial investigation from the beginning. That's why they initially proposed an independent committee, when they were under no obligation to do so.

Republicans, naturally, blocked this effort. And now they caterwaul about the committee being "politically motivated" when in fact, it's their obstructionism that made it political.

Democrats are acting good faith. Republicans - and the brain-dead cultists who parrot their lies on message boards - are not.
This ^.

What we have is a party that refused to participate in a bi-partisan investigation, then proposed two highly vocal Trump supporters, then got all miffed and self-righteous when they were rejected and started screaming what a partisan investigation it was. Poor babies.
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Old 18th January 2022, 07:29 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This ^.

What we have is a party that refused to participate in a bi-partisan investigation, then proposed two highly vocal Trump supporters, then got all miffed and self-righteous when they were rejected and started screaming what a partisan investigation it was. Poor babies.
This is perhaps a watershed moment, with two vocal Dems admitting the highly partisan nature of this committee...in agreement with me.

Perhaps my opinion of the Dem position on this forum as being idiotic is misplaced.
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Old 18th January 2022, 07:56 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Well, at least we are in agreement. It is a highly partisan committee.

Blame it on whoever you want. It doesn't matter.
Most of the Republican side refuses to do the basic job of holding Trump accountable.

Because of this, the Jan 6 committee is filled with mostly Democrats. You're somehow screeching "PARTISAN! OUARNCUWEINRYW!" like it means anything, like it's some unwarranted hit job against Trump. He did something wrong, he just happens to be on the other side, but that side refuses to do anything, so this side has to. Get over it.
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Old 18th January 2022, 07:59 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Most of the Republican side refuses to do the basic job of holding Trump accountable.

Because of this, the Jan 6 committee is filled with mostly Democrats. You're somehow screeching "PARTISAN! OUARNCUWEINRYW!" like it means anything, like it's some unwarranted hit job against Trump. He did something wrong, he just happens to be on the other side, but that side refuses to do anything, so this side has to. Get over it.
Get over what? I hope the Dems use this opportunity to sink Trump, politically.

If they don't..what a bunch of losers.
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Old 18th January 2022, 08:11 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Get over what? I hope the Dems use this opportunity to sink Trump, politically.

If they don't..what a bunch of losers.
The Democrat track record in Congress, even just communicating its agenda to its base, has been piss poor for decades. So there's reason for pessimism. But what I'm trying to get into your head is there are two major players in this, and the relentless damage control and widespread propaganda from congressional Republicans and Republican-aligned media play a part in keeping Trump politically afloat.

"Okay let's see you get this done; if you fail you're a bunch of losers" is just downright simplistic.
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Old 18th January 2022, 09:29 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
As I say, at least we are in agreement that the committee is highly partisan.
Compared to Benghazi, it's not one iota partisan.

It is intellectually dishonest to assume that just because Republicans will always be partisan that Democrats will be, too.

You still haven presented any evidence for partisanship.
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Old 18th January 2022, 09:33 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Get over what? I hope the Dems use this opportunity to sink Trump, politically.

If they don't..what a bunch of losers.
And what will you say the Republicans - who know exactly what Trump is and did and yet actively worked to prevent them doing so - are a bunch of? Winners, I suppose.

The real losers will be the citizens of your country.
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Old 18th January 2022, 09:50 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Did you not read earlier, when I stated that the Republicans played the situation stupidly? I guess not. That doesn't change the factual eventual outcome of a highly partisan committee.

As I have also mentioned, Dems will squeal like a gerbil stuck in Richard Gere's ass in order to avoid admitting this.

Clearly demonstrated by the comments.
The problem is not us, Warp12. The problem is you claiming it is primarily a partisan committee when that is a minor issue. It's a GOP/Dump-cult talking point and you don't seem to recognize why no one is buying your claim of not being a Dump supporter.
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Old 18th January 2022, 10:02 PM   #210
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I guess Warp unreservedly supported both impeachments.
Right?
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Old 18th January 2022, 10:13 PM   #211
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Just a reminder that there are, in fact, two Republican representatives on the committee. At least one of them* is a solid conservative by any measure other than in the "undying loyalty to Donald Trump" metric.

The only way it is partisan is if you ignore the actual political parties and only define "party" by who has sworn fealty to Trump and who hasn't. That is not how anyone defines our political parties, except for the most fervent of Trump supporters.


*I really ought to spend some time learning more about Kinzinger.
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Old Yesterday, 02:43 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I guess Warp unreservedly supported both impeachments.
Right?
I am rather ambivalent towards both of them. Generally speaking, the first one was a complete waste of time and resources, and the second one very much rushed. Everyone knew they were both likely to die in the Senate.

So, a symbolic victory for the Democratic party, I suppose.
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Old Yesterday, 02:58 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I am rather ambivalent towards both of them. Generally speaking, the first one was a complete waste of time and resources, and the second one very much rushed. Everyone knew they were both likely to die in the Senate.

So, a symbolic victory for the Democratic party, I suppose.
But not hyper-partisan?
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Old Yesterday, 03:02 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
But not hyper-partisan?
Huh? They were both fairly split along party lines, as you might expect. But there are other threads for that discussion, I'm sure.

As I say, I am not overly passionate about the topic.
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Old Yesterday, 03:38 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Huh? They were both fairly split along party lines, as you might expect. But there are other threads for that discussion, I'm sure.

As I say, I am not overly passionate about the topic.
not in the Senate.

It's fascinating that you consider the Impeachments to be legitimate and bipartisan, if poorly executed, and the J6C as hyperpartisan.

Can you explain what makes them different, when in both cases it was refusal of Republican participation that made them a Democrat driven effort?
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Old Yesterday, 04:06 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
not in the Senate.

It's fascinating that you consider the Impeachments to be legitimate and bipartisan, if poorly executed, and the J6C as hyperpartisan.

Can you explain what makes them different, when in both cases it was refusal of Republican participation that made them a Democrat driven effort?
I don't think I am denying a highly partisan split in the impeachments. Just like I am pointing out the highly partisan nature of this committee. It is humorous, watching Dems deny this as a partisan committee. Meanwhile, they are screeching about a similar party divide in the SCOTUS, and willing to rewrite the rules after more than 150 years, in order to change it.

Why deny reality? Embrace it and make the most of it.
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Old Yesterday, 07:54 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't think I am denying a highly partisan split in the impeachments. Just like I am pointing out the highly partisan nature of this committee. It is humorous, watching Dems deny this as a partisan committee. Meanwhile, they are screeching about a similar party divide in the SCOTUS, and willing to rewrite the rules after more than 150 years, in order to change it.

Why deny reality? Embrace it and make the most of it.
150 years. How dramatic.

Didn't the Republicans decide in 2017 that SCOTUS nomination actions no longer need 60 votes (Gorsuch)?

Also, appeal to tradition is a logical fallacy.
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Old Yesterday, 08:41 AM   #218
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Thinking 2+2=4 and that 2+2=5 has to have a debate where both sides get to argue doesn't make you "bipartisan" or "open minded" or "outside the echo chamber" or "a free thinker" it just makes you an idiot, 9 times out of 10 an idiot who thinks 2+2=5.
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Old Yesterday, 10:17 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
As I say, at least we are in agreement that the committee is highly partisan.
We don't, but your detachment from reality on this point explains a lot about the garbage you routinely post.
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Old Yesterday, 11:01 AM   #220
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This has been pointed out before, but I might have missed the answer.

Isn't the fact that there are 2 Republicans on the committee make it, by definition, NOT partisan?
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Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
This has been pointed out before, but I might have missed the answer.

Isn't the fact that there are 2 Republicans on the committee make it, by definition, NOT partisan?
The Proudly Wrong Trolls on the Right are going to scream about it being "partisan" as long as reality doesn't agree with them.
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Old Yesterday, 11:08 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The Proudly Wrong Trolls on the Right are going to scream about it being "partisan" as long as reality doesn't agree with them.
I just find it ironic that...people who crow about the lack of skepticism on this forum are completely defying any form of logic when applying well-defined terms.

It is, by definition, bi-partisan in every way the word is used. Breaking with your party doesn't make you a member of the other party. It doesn't give the people breaking with said party an innate bias. To imply otherwise would be stupid.
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Old Yesterday, 11:10 AM   #223
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The problem is we're still treating "Bipartisan" as a positive concept when one side has adopted a post-fact mindset.

Again "Both sides" stops being a virtue when one side is probably wrong.

We don't need Republicans on anything related to Jan 6 anymore than we need mobsters on a jury to make "fair."
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Old Yesterday, 11:10 AM   #224
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And objectivity =/= neutrality
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Old Yesterday, 11:10 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
This has been pointed out before, but I might have missed the answer.

Isn't the fact that there are 2 Republicans on the committee make it, by definition, NOT partisan?
It's a supermajority, 7-2. As has been mentioned, this is along the lines of the SCOTUS. And that is considered such a partisan divide that Dems are considering changing what has been on the books for 150 years, by packing the court.

So all of this talk of this committee not being partisan is a joke.
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Old Yesterday, 11:13 AM   #226
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It should be Partisan because one Party didn't help the Coup.

This is not complicated, despite how much insane ranting you're doing about it.
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Old Yesterday, 11:17 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It should be Partisan because one Party didn't help the Coup.

This is not complicated, despite how much insane ranting you're doing about it.
You are right, it isn't complicated. The insanity is people denying it is partisan.
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Old Yesterday, 11:26 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It's a supermajority, 7-2. As has been mentioned, this is along the lines of the SCOTUS.
Absolutely. Lifetime appointments to the highest court on the land are reasonably compared to a committee. For sure. Totally the same.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
And that is considered such a partisan divide that Dems are considering changing what has been on the books for 150 years, by packing the court.
Ok, but having a partisan divide isn't the same as not being bi-partisan, is it? The SCOTUS is bi-partisan in that members of both parties are on the SCOTUS, as stupid as it is to have judges that belong to parties, but I digress.

The problem with comparing SCOTUS to this committee is that their political divide is extremely more serious than this committee and so the weight of that divide is significantly higher. SCOTUS also doesn't\didn't provide an opportunity for an even split of members, to which one "side" decided to, mostly, pick up their ball and go home.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So all of this talk of this committee not being partisan is a joke.
No, what's a joke is throwing out a false equivalence and pretending like it means jack ****. It doesn't. The two aren't even relatively comparable.

Also, you've been using loaded terms like "hyper partisan" and the like. Stick with one.
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Old Yesterday, 11:29 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You are right, it isn't complicated. The insanity is people denying it is partisan.
No it's sane. Whether it's partisn or not is depending how insane one party has gotten.

You can't hide behind "We have to be non-partisan" while one side slips further and further into insanity.

I mean well you can because for some reason reality doesn't work on you, but actual like real people can't.
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Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM   #230
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You don't often see "ITS NOT X" and "OF COURSE ITS X" argued side by side this closely.
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Old Yesterday, 12:00 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You don't often see "ITS NOT X" and "OF COURSE ITS X" argued side by side this closely.
You would if you weren't so partisan!

I dunno, it's all I had.
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Old Yesterday, 12:04 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You would if you weren't so partisan!

I dunno, it's all I had.
Maybe if we redefine "partisan" to mean "likes to party, son", we.could score some refreshing adult beverages and celebrate the New Year?
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Old Yesterday, 01:14 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It's a supermajority, 7-2. As has been mentioned, this is along the lines of the SCOTUS. And that is considered such a partisan divide that Dems are considering changing what has been on the books for 150 years, by packing the court.
Yes, we all remember that time the Republicans suggested an evenly split Court and the Democrats told them to go **** themselves, and the Republicans had no choice but to fill the Court with members of their own party. Totally the same thing.

Quote:
So all of this talk of this committee not being partisan is a joke.
Again, you're thinking of the numerous Benghazi investigations, none of which you had a problem with.

This January 6th committee was explicitly set up to not be partisan, and just because the majority of the members are Democrats doesn't mean it is partisan.

The only joke around here is this sad charade in which you try to convince people that you're a neutral arbiter of truth and not just regurgitating what you watched on Fox News last night.
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Old Yesterday, 01:34 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Again, you're thinking of the numerous Benghazi investigations, none of which you had a problem with.
Quite frankly, I didn't follow those investigations that closely. But I certainly have no problem admitting that they were partisan with political motivations, based on what I have read.

It's politics. Nobody has agreed to Marquess of Queensberry rules, I'm afraid.

As I say, Dems should use this to their best advantage. They would be stupid not to, and I think there are strong signs that they will try to make the most of it.
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Old Yesterday, 01:40 PM   #235
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Quite frankly, I didn't follow those investigations that closely.
What a truly stunning turn of events.
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Old Yesterday, 05:12 PM   #236
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Looks like one of the insurrectionists couldn't hold his act together:

Quote:
Capitol rioter ordered back to jail after DWI arrest, discovery of AR-15 rifle in car

A man accused of rioting at the U.S. Capitol has been ordered to be returned to federal custody after authorities said he tried to flee an arrest on suspicion of drunk driving last month and police found an AR-15 rifle in his car.
The man, James Tate Grant, 29, of North Carolina, was on pretrial release in connection with allegations that he assaulted two police officers at the rampage on Jan. 6, 2021.
Quote:
In Grant’s car, police recovered an AR-15 assault rifle, 60 rounds of ammunition, weapon accessories and combat fatigues, court documents said.
Quote:
The motion to detain Grant also said he provided urine samples that tested positive for amphetamines in October and November.
The motion said: "He was caught driving drunk with an assault rifle and over 60 rounds of ammunition in his vehicle, and initially attempted to flee from law enforcement. There are no conditions or combination of conditions that could ensure the safety of the community and Grant’s presence in court if he were to remain released."
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