ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags "Press for Truth" , Cofer Black , documentaries , george tenet , John Duffy , Khalid al-Mihdhar , Nawaf al-Hazmi , Ray Nowosielski , Richard Blee , richard clarke , sibel edmonds

Reply
Old 11th September 2018, 07:30 AM   #1161
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A pocket paradise between the sewage treatment plant and the railroad
Posts: 14,248
"Against all odds?" Are they all popular Game of Thrones characters, or something?
__________________
A zřmbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2018, 08:29 AM   #1162
tinribmancer
Hasbarian NWO Templar Cattle
 
tinribmancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,626
Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
"Against all odds?" Are they all popular Game of Thrones characters, or something?
That would be an insultment to Game Of Thrones. Can you imagine Gage, Jones (The fat one that just lost 90% of his social networks) or Tsamboti being cast members of that show?
__________________
"Bravery Is Not A Function Of Firepower." - JC Denton

"And belief in conspiracy theories is not the function of a higher intellect." - BStrong
tinribmancer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2018, 10:18 AM   #1163
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 19,765
Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
That would be an insultment to Game Of Thrones. Can you imagine Gage, Jones (The fat one that just lost 90% of his social networks) or Tsamboti being cast members of that show?
I can imagine them in the Thunderdome.
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2018, 10:32 AM   #1164
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 18,812
against all odds

Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
"Against all odds?" Are they all popular Game of Thrones characters, or something?
[nsfw]

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


[/nsfw]
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2018, 06:52 PM   #1165
AJM8125
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
 
AJM8125's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,245
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
So are you.
__________________
AJM8125 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2018, 07:14 PM   #1166
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,088
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Against all odds these people are still alive and just published a new book called "The Watchdogs Didn’t Bark". It's a bit different from the story the duhbunkies know from "the Looming Tower" and stuff like that.

Robbie Martin, the brother of Abby Martin, infamous dissident named in the "17 agencies" report as so influencial that she should be nuked (or something), interviewed them for almost 100 minutes in this very interesting podcast.
17 years, 9/11 truth exposes complete ignorance
__________________
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein
"... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK
https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2018, 08:01 PM   #1167
Redwood
Graduate Poster
 
Redwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,492
Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
That would be an insultment to Game Of Thrones. Can you imagine Gage, Jones (The fat one that just lost 90% of his social networks) or Tsamboti being cast members of that show?
HEY, C'MON! It's "Szamboti", a good Hungarian name. Dad was born in Hungary, so I should know! (Even if Tony seems to be under the impression that it's an Italian name!)
Redwood is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2018, 08:03 AM   #1168
CptColumbo
Just One More Question
 
CptColumbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Lots of places
Posts: 9,237
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Against all odds these people are still alive and just published a new book called "The Watchdogs Didn’t Bark". It's a bit different from the story the duhbunkies know from "the Looming Tower" and stuff like that.
You mean the "stuff" that won Pulitzers.
__________________
I've been involved in a lot of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.--Creed, "The Office"
The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be only found in the minds of men. Prejudices and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own.--Rod Serling
CptColumbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2018, 12:41 PM   #1169
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16,287
Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
HEY, C'MON! It's "Szamboti", a good Hungarian name. Dad was born in Hungary, so I should know! (Even if Tony seems to be under the impression that it's an Italian name!)
Really??
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2018, 05:58 PM   #1170
Redwood
Graduate Poster
 
Redwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,492
Yes. It's somewhere in one of the videos. But it's not worth looking it up.

Of course it's possible that his family has closer roots to Italy than Hungary. There are plenty of Germans with Hungarian names and plenty with Italian names for that matter.
Redwood is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2018, 10:21 AM   #1171
Tony Szamboti
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,976
Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
Yes. It's somewhere in one of the videos. But it's not worth looking it up.

Of course it's possible that his family has closer roots to Italy than Hungary. There are plenty of Germans with Hungarian names and plenty with Italian names for that matter.
It is Italian originally. The original spelling of the name on my grandmother's marriage license to my grandfather was Sgambati. They did not stay together and somehow the small "g" got turned into a "z" and the "a" after the "b" into an "o".

There are a lot of people with Italian ancestry with the last name of Sgambati in the Northeast U.S.

Here is a link to a famous Italian composer with that last name https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Sgambati

Last edited by Tony Szamboti; 13th October 2018 at 10:26 AM.
Tony Szamboti is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2018, 12:09 PM   #1172
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 16,027
Wow, another smear attempt gone wrong. Egészségedre!
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2018, 12:59 PM   #1173
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: A pocket paradise between the sewage treatment plant and the railroad
Posts: 14,248
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Wow, another smear attempt gone wrong. Egészségedre!

You think suggesting someone's ancestry could be Hungarian is smearing them? What's wrong with Hungarians?
__________________
A zřmbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th October 2018, 01:03 PM   #1174
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 16,027
Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
You think suggesting someone's ancestry could be Hungarian is smearing them? What's wrong with Hungarians?

Such a pithy guy as your humble self will of course have picked up that the smear attempt was about Tony not knowing his own ancestry. So why pollute the air?

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 13th October 2018 at 01:07 PM. Reason: pity -> pithy. Still struggle with English
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2018, 03:20 AM   #1175
CompusMentus
Waiting for the Worms
 
CompusMentus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,587
Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
.....What's wrong with Hungarians?


Goulash

Say no more
__________________
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit
CompusMentus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th October 2018, 09:05 AM   #1176
Allen773
Muse
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 928
I read The Watchdogs Didn't Bark. Intriguing, a bit sensational if not quite CT, and certainly very provocative. A lot of new (well new to me) details, some from anonymous sources, some not (and mostly, FWIW, from people deeply involved in the relevant events), that confirm some of my own suspicions regarding CIA's Alec Station in particular and some others in the CTC and CIA - almostly certainly going up to the DCI (George Tenet at the time) - regarding their failure/unwillingness to share the information regarding Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Midhar in a timely and useful manner to the FBI.

Definitely expands on the bad blood between Michael Scheuer (a real nutcase, for what it's worth) and his so-called "Manson Family" of mostly junior - and female - Alec Station analysts on one side, and John O'Neill, Richard Clarke, and their teams on the other. All three of these men - Scheuer, O'Neill, and Clarke - were very deeply attuned to the grave national security threat of Osama bin Laden, and very knowledgeable about al-Qaeda. And all three of them were notorious for rubbing others the wrong way, especially (and critically) their bosses and other senior officials.

There's also some more information that sheds light on the CIA's mission that routinely involves breaking the laws of other countries and obfuscating or even outright lying vs. the FBI's responsibility as a law enforcement and criminal investigative agency first and foremost - which inevitably clashes with the CIA's ongoing intelligence-gathering and threat-monitoring priorities, and the CIA's obsession (desperation?) to recruit members and associates of al-Qaeda as sources. Also critically, a few of Alec Station's most important prospective sources were in close proximity, or even suspects themselves, in the planning of the embassy bombings in Africa and the USS Cole bombing - including Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Midhar.

And then there's the whole suspicion/speculation regarding a possible joint CIA-Saudi operation in the US monitoring al-Hazmi, al-Midhar, and others that went awry - which if true, would implicate the Saudis directly in facilitating and assisting the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks (even if inadvertently - which may have been true for some Saudi officials and agents, but I don't doubt for a minute that there were at least a few Saudis operating in their embassy, consulates, and affiliated organizations in the US who supported al-Qaeda, perhaps extremists in the religious ministries and Saudi-sponsored mosques...). And the CIA would have been at least indirectly implicated in the consequences of an operation that went off-the-rails - again, assuming that such an operation existed. There's no direct evidence or proof of an operation of that nature pre-9/11, and I doubt that there ever will be.

Also some very interesting information about the NSA and its own internal politics and some possible conflicts of interest among key senior NSA officials...

All in all, a fascinating book - if ultimately, rather speculative and admittedly polemical. I would recommend it, but keep in mind the authors' own biases, which should be very clear!

Last edited by Allen773; 29th October 2018 at 09:08 AM.
Allen773 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:26 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.