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#2521 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,664
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#2522 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: nyc
Posts: 2,875
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I think you're are correct... they make pronouncements which seem serious and professional... but they are just marketing hype to lasso in more dollar. People don't want for the review or follow up studies before sending the dough. The money is meant to "start" the process conceptually... but they rake off lots for themselves.
Sadly these "groups" are money making scams in the end. |
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So many idiots and so little time. |
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#2523 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,428
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Probably true but there are some fundamental differences between the Basile undertaking and the Hulsey project
Basile's was a simple technical job to perform an analysis. Hulsey's project involves two claims both based on a false or at least dubious foundation of logic: "Fire could not cause collapse..." which stands on a fatal error of "cannot prove a negative"...certainly not by the path the project is taking; AND "Prove NIST was wrong" which seems to be following the 10 years old and consistent Szamboti strategy. Chasing a detail when the premise is wrong. It is probably heading towards the more recent Szamboti trademark error of false dichotomy..."If I (that is T Sz) prove someone wrong it means I am right". The NIST findings present a plausible solution. Falsifying a plausible solution does not prove a different solution. |
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#2524 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,122
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#2525 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,664
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Important update.................
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#2526 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,095
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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232 |
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#2527 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,624
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So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts. |
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#2528 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,225
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#2529 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,664
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__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#2530 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,428
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#2531 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,428
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It would suit Gage's purpose either way. Ongoing debate about why the study is wrong<>not wrong OR ongoing debate about why no paper...
...with occasional comments from me about the fatal flaw in the foundation logic. The project could never prove "fire couldn't cause collapse" >> no matter how many times Hulsey tries to "spin" the claim by obscure rewording the claim in "professional academic gobbledegook". |
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#2532 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,664
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..........exactly why there will never be a paper with university support (or a legitimate peer review).
This was sold as a University of Alaska study. Money was collected on a lie. I'm not surprised and no one should be considering this organisations track record(AE911). |
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#2533 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16,304
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Well, yes, but what do you imagine such "university support" would look like? Hulsey is the Departent Chair of the Department of Civil & Environmental within the UAF's College of Engineering and Mines. He is the top guy of the directly relevant Department, you can't get any more direct "support" from "the university" than that.
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
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#2534 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 458
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#2535 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16,304
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If that capitalized "TRUE" pertains to my entire post, including the first two words, I am happy and glad that you so whole-heartedly agree with DGM's assertion that any "University of Alaska support" is naught but a selling point, a PR gimmick. This is like saying a study by Richard Gage is "supported by AE911T", or that a claim made by Donald Trump is "supported by the US government". Such a claim is as trivially true as it is deceptive.
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
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#2536 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,095
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True, Hulsey is a conspiracy nut and his grad students figure out he was nuts, or Hulsey will do anything for money when he supported the idiot liar Richard Gage.
Got any evidence for any 9/11 truth related claims, or has 9/11 truth failed all these years? No, or as you like, "NO!" 9/11 truth, a movement based on the ignorance of the followers. True. |
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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK https://folding.stanford.edu/ fold with your computer - join team 13232 |
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#2537 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16,304
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Hulsey has done an interview with AE911T's propaganda minister, Andy Steele, on their PR channel "9/11 Free Fall radio":
http://911freefall.com/9-11-free-fal...-study-update/ Interview begins after 26 minutes and goes through the end of the hour. I have written some ad-hoc comments upon first listening to Hulsey's first words about project progress in a year, here at Metabunk: https://www.metabunk.org/posts/225253/ I may do a partial or full transcript there at a later time. Highlights:
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
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#2538 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,428
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^^^^ Thanks Oystein.
And let me add my hobby horse: He is still blatantly claiming to 'prove the negative of "fire couldn't cause collapse"' - which his project cannot achieve. To prove "couldn't" he must falsify all the alternates. On another forum or two I've explained it this way:
Quote:
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#2539 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,664
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Quote:
I'd like to see the papers the PhD student is working on (the real ones). |
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#2540 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,358
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If I had to bet, I'd bet this is a good candidate for publishing their paper:
https://www.benthamopen.com/TOCIEJ/ |
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Ask questions. Demand answers. But be prepared to accept the answers, or don't ask questions in the first place. |
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#2541 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 895
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How long? Has this been going on?
Hello chaps, and chapesses! First time back here in nearly a year, and before that I was last present when the JREF was still a going concern, so probably before this Hulsey fellow began his - er - 'study'. I don't intend to trawl through 64 pages as I do have a life, but allow me to summarise the timeline here, as I've understood it. May 2015: the two-year study begins. At some point this then becomes a three-year study. May 2018: After three years, still no results. Announcements are made that this science stuff is difficult, that more time (and $$$) is needed, and that because this science stuff is difficult, there's going to be an announcement "later in the year". Lots of castles-in-Spain bloviating about what AE9/11 will to do to The Man
I may have been gone a while, but it looks like Business As Usual amongst the truthers ![]() |
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#2542 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16,304
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Yes. At that time, budget also grows from a bit over $200K to a bit over $300K.
No. At least Hulsey is not asking for more money, or more to the point: The project budget as the UAF sees it remains at $316K. M'kay Well, they (Andrew Steele, Gage's propaganda minister) did an interview with Hulsey earlier this month, where Hulsey said he expects to have something finished by the end of this year. Yeah, fair enough. |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
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#2543 |
Scholar
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 64
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No. At best Dr. Hulsey can state under the simulation he ran fire did not cause the collapse. His study is not running all possible situation. His study makes assumptions as did NIST in areas where data is not known for sure. Example: exact fire behavior on each of the involved floors).
It is now mid November. Wonder how much longer Dr. Hulsey needs. |
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#2544 |
Skeptic not Atheist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,664
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__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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#2545 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: nyc
Posts: 2,875
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This is nothing but smoke and mirrors... junk engineering to be part of their never ending stream of marketing fantasies. The only thing this endeavor proves is that Truthers are gullible, Hulsey is a con and that no one can prove what a negative.... something we already knew.
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So many idiots and so little time. |
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#2546 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16,304
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A delegation of AE911T fools is going to the ASCE's "Top Forensic Engineering Conference". An excellent opportunity to present Hulsey's forensic WTC7 study to true experts, one might think.
But: They do not present anything at all there. They rent a hotel room offsite the conference. What a joke! |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
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#2547 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: nyc
Posts: 2,875
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truth movement has backed itself into a corner. They can't abandon their core belief... meme... so they just repeat the same falsehoods to their true believers and add some marketing gambits... like showing up at an engineering conference to give them creds.
I can't imagine them holding a presser saying they have finally realized they were barking up the wrong tree and are wrong and are disbanding their marketing campaign for a new investigation... which sounds benign... but is really code word for getting the world to accept their CD conspiracy theories. As long as there are suckers who send money... AE will go on. When the money stops so with the truth movement. |
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So many idiots and so little time. |
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#2548 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Spain
Posts: 3,358
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__________________
Ask questions. Demand answers. But be prepared to accept the answers, or don't ask questions in the first place. |
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#2549 |
Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Posts: 222
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This mail was quoted in a debate on 911facts.dk's Facebook page in the middle of December:
"Thanks for your email. My apologies for the delay in responding. We anticipate releasing a draft report along with the model animations/data in January. I hope this works with your schedule. Please let me know if you have any additional questions. Best regards, Ted Walter Director of Strategy and Development Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth" The one quoting the mail, did not want to reveal to who and when the mail was sent. Shortly January will also be gone. |
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Niels Harrit: "I do not actually understand why they fire insulates steel structures. It just slows the heating of the steel by one hour. There must be money in it." |
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#2550 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16,304
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__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
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#2551 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,428
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^^^ And - sign of the times - you just broke the ISF World Record attempt - we reached eight (8) days with no new post in the sub forum....
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#2552 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,122
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#2553 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 28,482
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right? Tony Szamboti: That is right |
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#2554 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 42,491
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Methinks the Uninversity of Alaska needs to look for a new department head....
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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#2555 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16,304
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Well, the AE911T November 21, 2015 Newsletter, that the OP quotes from (without acknowledgement, link or anything), said that the study would be "completed in April 2017".
It said that "UAF and AE911Truth will make this study completely open and transparent" and that soon, the'd "begin posting the process on the website WTC7Evaluation.org, where members of the architecture and engineering communities, as well as the general public, can follow and scrutinize the research as it is being conducted." And it asked for money based on those promises... |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) |
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#2556 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,122
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