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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 14th November 2018, 05:31 PM   #1841
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by sept79 View Post
Don't forget about the totally incriminating pizza eating binge . . .
That's nothing. It's her eyes that prove she's guilty. That and her smile.
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Old 15th November 2018, 08:57 AM   #1842
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The ECHR Grand Chamber on 15 Nov 2018 issued its judgment in NAVALNYY v. RUSSIA 29580/12 36847/12 11252/13...; this case concerns repeated "administative" arrests of a political dissident for participation in peaceful demonstrations. The case, including its predecessors before ECHR Chamber tribunals, while different from Knox v. Italy, does contain these ECHR statements of some relevance, relating to violations of defense rights in the domestic court proceedings due to failure to fairly allow or evaluate defense evidence:

71. By contrast, the courts in the six other sets of proceedings decided to base their judgments exclusively on the versions of events put forward by the police. They systematically failed to check the factual allegations made by the police, having refused the applicant’s requests for additional evidence such as video recordings to be admitted, or for witnesses to be called, in the absence of any obstacles to doing so. Moreover, when the courts did examine witnesses other than the police officers, they automatically presumed bias on the part of all witnesses who had testified in the applicant’s favour; on the contrary, the police officers were presumed to be parties with no vested interest.

72. The Court has already examined a number of cases concerning administrative proceedings against individuals charged with breaching rules of conduct of public events or with failing to obey police orders to disperse. It found that in those proceedings the Justices of the Peace had accepted the submissions of the police readily and unequivocally and had denied the applicants any opportunity to adduce any proof to the contrary. It held that in the dispute over the key facts underlying the charges where the only witnesses for the prosecution were the police officers who had played an active role in the contested events it was indispensable for the courts to use every reasonable opportunity to check their incriminating statements (see Kasparov and Others, § 64; Navalnyy and Yashin, § 83; and Frumkin, § 165, all cited above). Failure to do so ran contrary to the fundamental principles of criminal law, namely in dubio pro reo {meaning: a defendant may not be convicted by the court when doubts about his or her guilt remain}. (see Frumkin, cited above, § 166, and the cases cited therein). It also found that by dismissing all evidence in the defendant’s favour without justification the domestic courts had placed an extreme and unattainable burden of proof on the applicant, contrary to the basic requirement that the prosecution has to prove its case and to one of the fundamental principles of criminal law, namely in dubio pro reo (see Nemtsov, cited above, § 92).
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Old 15th November 2018, 09:43 AM   #1843
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One fundamental issue in the criminal proceedings - including pretrial questionings and trials - of Amanda Knox and Raffale Sollecito is "presumption of innocence". Some posters, particularly guilters, apparently do not understand or agree with this fundamental principle. The Boninsegna motivation report points out that the interrogation of Knox violated the principle of presumption of innocence, although that principle is a fundamental right under the Italian Constitution, Article 27.

Here's some information that may help clarify what is meant by presumption of innocence, and make clear that it is a principle accepted by international law, including by the UN, ECHR, and Italian law.

1. UN
"In many states, presumption of innocence is a legal right of the accused in a criminal trial, and it is an international human right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 11. Under the presumption of innocence, the legal burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which must collect and present compelling evidence to the trier of fact. The trier of fact (a judge or a jury) is thus restrained and ordered by law to consider only actual evidence and testimony presented in court. The prosecution must, in most cases prove that the accused is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. If reasonable doubt remains, the accused must be acquitted."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence

2. ECHR: European Convention on Human Rights, Article 6.2

"Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law."

ECHR case-law extends this right and other defense rights to include pre-trial questioning and arrest hearings.

3. Italy. Constitution, Article 27, second clause:

"A defendant shall be considered not guilty until a final sentence has been passed."

Source: English translation supplied by the Senate of the Italian Parliament
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Old 16th November 2018, 03:07 PM   #1844
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Congratulations Amanda and Chris Amanda you deserve a lifetime of happiness and joy! Chris comes across as a kind and wonderful man.

https://people.com/crime/amanda-knox...pher-robinson/
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Old 16th November 2018, 05:13 PM   #1845
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Originally Posted by ctb1234 View Post
Congratulations Amanda and Chris Amanda you deserve a lifetime of happiness and joy! Chris comes across as a kind and wonderful man.

https://people.com/crime/amanda-knox...pher-robinson/
That is so wonderful! I wish all the best for them. The way he asked her is so inventive.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 16th November 2018 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 16th November 2018, 05:52 PM   #1846
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Hopeful, one of the most hateful PGP on TJMK, wrote this piece of garbage on TJMK Front Page:

Quote:
The header is from a NY Times review of a book by the above pair, no irony intended (I presume).

Knox supports murderer Brendan Dassey and Avery, has a boyfriend who wears dark fingernail polish (some man!?), has a cat named Mr. Screams, and received a blue glass award from Arizona Public Defender Association in June 2018 “for sharing your inspiring story”.

You can’t make this stuff up (or can you), in Knox’s case the ultimate fantasist liar who has always wanted to mythologize her own life, she’s a born actress prostitute seeking to be Amelie but is Jekyll-Hyde and had to cannibalize Meredith’s clean life to morph into notoriety.

Now she links up with Christopher Robinson who can play paparazzi to her diabolical story while she allows him to wear the crazy hats, necklaces, fur and outlandish clothes that force her to become the opposite: Miss Demure, Miss Meredith, Miss Speaker at Innocence Conventions, Supporter of the Oppressed, Miss I-Know-the-Law, I have lived through controversy, I’m a Survivor, I am Wrongly Accused, I now dress modestly, this is my classy side,

I am allowing Chris to be the wild child of this use and be-used duo. Chris wrote his first novel with good friend Kovite, an Army veteran, titled “War of the Encyclopaedists”. Now in May 2018 they’ve got a new book out called, “Deliver Us”. I think Chris may mean deliver us from evil as in Knox. And guess where the two friends met? In Italy.
Quote:
But I think the hidden message of Chris Robinson’s “Deliver Us” is that he is questioning his Amanda Knox relationship (why not put a ring on it, Chris?) and already regrets slumming around. It’s a true cry of “deliver us from evil”. A bit late Chris. Do you even care if Knox killed Meredith or not?
Why is it that this sicko PGP has to extend her ugly, denigrating, hateful attacks to Chris Robinson? It's ironic that Hopeful calls him mentally ill. Look in the mirror, lady.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 16th November 2018 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 17th November 2018, 04:34 AM   #1847
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That is so wonderful! I wish all the best for them. The way he asked her is so inventive.
Er, what were you saying the other day about your bleeding heart towards the Kercher family?

The words 'insincerity', 'hypocrisy' and 'callous mockery' spring to mind.

Who cares what some rightly convicted ex-felon does?
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Old 17th November 2018, 04:35 AM   #1848
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Hopeful, one of the most hateful PGP on TJMK, wrote this piece of garbage on TJMK Front Page:





Why is it that this sicko PGP has to extend her ugly, denigrating, hateful attacks to Chris Robinson? It's ironic that Hopeful calls him mentally ill. Look in the mirror, lady.
Hopeful is a good writer and gets it right on the nail every time.
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Old 17th November 2018, 06:07 AM   #1849
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Hopeful is a good writer and gets it right on the nail every time.
Says the poster who thought Dusseldorf was in Ireland.
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Old 17th November 2018, 08:19 AM   #1850
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It is truly bizarre the bandwidth the mainline media gives to a random Seattleite, whose notoriety comes from being falsely accused of murder, a decade ago in a country far, far away.

So I guess we shouldn't be so hard on Vixen..... but why, why, why, why, why is the following even news, and why is it important enough (in 2018!) to make the front page of the CNN webpage?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/17/enter...son/index.html
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Old 17th November 2018, 12:00 PM   #1851
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Er, what were you saying the other day about your bleeding heart towards the Kercher family?

The words 'insincerity', 'hypocrisy' and 'callous mockery' spring to mind.

Who cares what some rightly convicted ex-felon does?
True to form, Vix, true to form. You're as predictable as the sun rising each morning.

So now she's an 'ex-felon', is she? Make up your mind, will you? Either way, you're wrong. As usual.
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Old 17th November 2018, 12:09 PM   #1852
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Hopeful is a good writer and gets it right on the nail every time.
She is very good if you like hate mongering, character assassination, sensationalism, and opinion masquerading as facts journalism. No wonder she is considered a 'good writer' who 'gets it right on the nail every time' by like minded people. Birds of a feather as the saying goes.
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Old 17th November 2018, 12:12 PM   #1853
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
It is truly bizarre the bandwidth the mainline media gives to a random Seattleite, whose notoriety comes from being falsely accused of murder, a decade ago in a country far, far away.

So I guess we shouldn't be so hard on Vixen..... but why, why, why, why, why is the following even news, and why is it important enough (in 2018!) to make the front page of the CNN webpage?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/17/enter...son/index.html
It's the entertainment section, Bill.
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Old 17th November 2018, 01:19 PM   #1854
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Er, what were you saying the other day about your bleeding heart towards the Kercher family?

The words 'insincerity', 'hypocrisy' and 'callous mockery' spring to mind.

Who cares what some rightly convicted ex-felon does?


Just what is an ex-felon?
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Old 17th November 2018, 03:59 PM   #1855
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Says the poster who thought Dusseldorf was in Ireland.
What?
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Old 17th November 2018, 04:03 PM   #1856
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Originally Posted by sept79 View Post
Just what is an ex-felon?
Amanda Knox was locked up for three years after being convicted of falsely advising official police investigators that an innocent man committed the rape and murder of Meredith Kercher.

She served her time, hence is an 'ex-convict'.

Clear now?
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Old 17th November 2018, 04:04 PM   #1857
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
What?
This...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6#post12505786
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Old 17th November 2018, 04:09 PM   #1858
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Amanda Knox was locked up for three years after being convicted of falsely advising official police investigators that an innocent man committed the rape and murder of Meredith Kercher.

She served her time, hence is an 'ex-convict'.

Clear now?
What you've proven in this thread is that you'll lie to make one of your silly points. For example you don't even dispute using the factoid term, "ex-felon". Please also note your example affords you no opportunity to vilify RS.

Maybe now's the opportunity for you to admit that the 2015 Italian Supreme Court exonerated the pair - exactly as even the original prosecutors said a year ago.

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Old 17th November 2018, 04:31 PM   #1859
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The news of the engagement of Amanda Knox and Chris Robinson certainly calls for best wishes.

But apparently some guilters have posted hateful and irrational reactions.

More relevant to the actual case then the hate-filled screeching of the guilters is an understanding of the current status of the Knox - Sollecito case.

As a reminder, Knox and Sollecito were finally and definitively acquitted of the charges of murder/rape of Kercher by the Italian Supreme Court of Cassation. They were acquitted with the specification that they had not committed the act of the crime. Thus, they are innocent of the murder/rape of Kercher under Italian law, and no further criminal or civil action regarding the facts underlying those charges can ever be lodged against them in Italy, according to Italian law.

Amanda Knox was convicted of false accusation (calunnia) against Patrick (Diya) Lumumba. She has lodged an application with the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) alleging that her defense rights under the European Convention on Human Rights were violated in the proceedings that led to the calunnia conviction and that the trial was thus unfair. That application was formalized as a case, Knox v. Italy, with an April, 2016, Communication to Italy. Under Italian law and ECHR case-law, if the ECHR finds that her trial was unfair, she will be entitled to request a revision trial in which her Convention rights would be fully respected.

In an important side trial, Knox was accused of calunnia against the police and the prosecutor (Mignini) because of statements she had made during her trial before the Massei court. Knox was finally and definitively acquitted of those charges in a trial before the Boninsegna court, on the specification that she had not committed the crime - because her defense rights had indeed been violated during the Nov. 5/6 interrogation.

On another forum, I was asked to summarize relevant information about the Communication to Italy for the Knox v. Italy case and the Boninsegna motivation report. I present that summary here as well.

In the following post, I have bolded my headings (or parts thereof) to distinguish them from ECHR or Boninsegna court MR texts.

1. The full texts of the Boninsegna court motivation report in Italian (only 34 pages long) and in an English translation (28 pages) are available within the "Miscellaneous" group in PDF format at: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/motiva...eal-documents/

There is also a link to the English translation from the amandaknoxcase.com home page.

2. I offer this very brief summary of the Boninsegna MR, in English, consisting of its concluding paragraphs, with my addition, shown in braces and highlighted, of additional summary of the body of the text :

"There is not, hence, sufficient evidence that the events did not occur as Knox reported, as regards the police. But it is also plausible, given the dramatic context that has been revealed {including apparent violations of her rights of defense as provided under the Italian Constitution and Italian law}, that Knox was convinced or had the - reasonable - doubt of being the victim of an unjustly oppressive and abusive machinery, which she described - in a basic and embryonic but effective manner - at the March hearing, as regards the status of the Prosecutor, evidently thought to be the hierarchical instigator and the authority overseeing the police activity. The Prosecutor was believed by her to be, albeit mistakenly, the primary architect and the inspiration behind her state of subjugation and submission. Hence it follows that, as regards this charge, the fact does not constitute an offense, since it is missing the subjective element [of knowing the innocence of the accused person], there being at most the possibility of [the defendant] accepting this eventuality [dolo eventuale], which is incompatible with the crime of calumny.

It can be, therefore, concluded that the chosen investigative practices induced in the defendant the conviction, or the reasonable doubt, that she was being subjected to a planned, oppressive and unfair investigative action - this also takes into account Knox’s definitive acquittal in the main criminal trial because she did not commit the crime of murder - in light of the overall way in which her interrogation was performed.

There is, therefore, an absence of the evidence to place beyond a reasonable doubt that the events did not indeed occur as the girl related and that she was fully aware of the non-involvement of the Prosecutor in the way the investigations concerning her were performed.

For These Reasons

Pursuant to article 530 of the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure,
acquits Knox Amanda Marie for the charge under letter a), because the facts do not exist, and for the charge under letter b), because the facts do not exist and because the act does not constitute an offense, as regards the accusations addressed to Dr. Giuliano Mignini"

3. The original initial Communication from the ECHR to Italy for Knox v. Italy is in French; I have created a translation to English using Google translate with assistance from Collins Reverso. There have been, based on ECHR information, two additional Communications. Only the text of the initial one is available from ECHR's online database, at
https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng#{%22itemid%22:[%22001-163098%22]}

There is also a link to this document in the ECHR database on the amandaknoxcase.com home page.

I have previously posted in this Forum the most relevant excerpts from the English translation of the original French text of the Communication to Italy. The beginning sections of the Communication essentially summarize the many trials and their verdicts, and repeating that summation here would not be the best use of this post, since the total length is 7 pages. I will again post here the "bottom line" of the Communication, that is, the Complaints, Information Request, and the Questions to the Parties, and also the ECHR's summary (Section 2(i) of the document) of what it considered the relevant part of the Boninsegna court MR for the purposes of its Communication.

3A: Complaints, Information Request, and Questions to the Parties (showing the case identifiers):

Communicated on 29 April 2016


FIRST SECTION {of the ECHR}

Application no. 76577/13
Amanda Marie KNOX
against Italy
lodged on November 24, 2013

COMPLAINTS

1. The applicant raises several complaints concerning the fairness of the criminal proceedings following which she was sentenced to three years in prison for false accusation.

a) Relying on Article 6 §§ 1 and 3 a) of the Convention, the applicant complained of not being informed promptly and in a language that she understood of the nature and cause of the accusation against her.

b) In terms of Article 6 §§ 1 and 3 c), she also alleges that she was not assisted by a lawyer during the interrogation of 6 November 2007.

c) Relying on Article 6 §§ 1 and 3 e), the applicant also complains that she was not assisted by a professional and independent interpreter during interrogation and that the police officer who assisted during the interrogation of 6 November 2007 performed the duties of a "mediator", thereby suggesting hypotheses about what events had taken place.

2. Relying on Article 3 of the Convention, the applicant complains that the slaps on the head that she suffered (scappellotti) constituted inhuman and degrading treatment.

3. Relying on Article 8 of the Convention, she denounces the violation of her right to respect for private and family life, on the grounds that, on 6 November 2007, she was forced to answer questions about Mr DL so that she was unable to exercise judgment and will (incapacità di intendere volere e) and under psychological pressure.


INFORMATION REQUEST

1. The applicant is requested to produce a copy of the judgment of the Perugia court of 5 December 2009 regarding her conviction for false accusation and a copy of the appeal and of the appeal regarding this procedure.

2. The parties are invited to indicate whether the judgment of the Florence Court of 14 January 2016 was appealed or if it has become final and to provide copies of relevant documents.

QUESTIONS TO THE PARTIES

1. Has the applicant exhausted the domestic remedies available to her to complain about the violation of Article 3 of the Convention, concerning the slaps (scappellotti) allegedly suffered, and Articles 6 §§ 1 and 3 a), c) and e) and 8 of the Convention?

2. If so:

a) Was the applicant subjected, in breach of Article 3 of the Convention, to inhuman or degrading treatment?

b) Was the applicant, as required by Article 6 § 3 a) of the Convention, informed promptly, in a language she could understand and in detail, of the nature and cause of the charges against her for false accusation?

c) Did the applicant have the assistance of counsel of her choice, as required by Article 6 § 3 c) of the Convention, especially during the interrogation of 6 November 2007?

d) Did the applicant obtain the free assistance of an interpreter, within the meaning of Article 6 § 3 e) of the Convention?

e) Did the psychological pressure allegedly suffered by the applicant during the interrogations of 6 November 2007, violate the right of the applicant to a fair trial within the meaning of Article 6 § 1 of the Convention, and the right to respect for private life protected by Article 8 § 1 of the Convention?

3B: Section 2(i) of the Communication - the ECHR's summary of relevant parts, in its opinion, of the Boninsegna MR:

Meanwhile, the applicant was the subject of another criminal trial for false accusation, in particular concerning the statements she had made on 13 March, 12 June and 13 June 2009 against the police officers who carried out her interrogations. By a judgment of 14 January 2016, the Florence Court {of Judge Boninsegna} acquitted the applicant.

In particular, the court considered that the applicant had been subjected to intense psychological pressure from the investigators, leading her to formulate the name of Mr. DL {Diya Lumumba} for the sole purpose of terminating a treatment contrary to the {legally guaranteed} rights of a person under investigation. The relevant passages of this judgment, as far as the present application is concerned, read as follows:

"The investigation activities (...) concerning the applicant {Knox, the accused in the case} are characterized by numerous procedural irregularities which led the Court of Cassation {the Gemelli CSC panel} to consider [1 April 2008] that the statements collected were not usable. (...)

Due to the deficiencies of the [investigation] activities, the minutes are not reliable as to the starting time of the activities. Moreover, the minutes do not indicate the closing times. (...)

The totally inappropriate choice of interpreters was also irregular. These were agents of the Perugia Police Bureau. Thus they were placed in a situation of professional collaboration with the colleagues who were carrying out the investigations. This resulted in emotionally empathic behavior [with the applicant]. This was taking place in an extremely delicate context, not only for the investigations (the declarations relating to them having been considered {by the CSC} unusable thereafter) but also concerning the position [of the applicant] who was at that time under investigation.

This ambiguous quality of the person performing auxiliary duties for the police and, at the same time, belonging to the investigators' own team was accompanied by maternal attitudes and overwhelmingly strong emotion (in particular regarding the behavior not required and at least atypical of [two interpreters] and one of the police officers [some having taken familiar attitudes tending to create empathy with the applicant and the other having taken her hand in hand and hugging {embracing} (abbracciata) her while she was making accusations against Mr. DL)] (...).

The interpreters should have been uninvolved and neutral in relation to the ongoing criminal procedure with the obvious and basic aim of avoiding contaminations that affect the professional performance of the auxiliary {task of interpretation}. (...)

All these circumstances do not appear in the minutes (...). The only appropriate approach in this case was to inform the person under investigation of her rights of defense, declared inviolable in our Constitution. This was for the obvious reason that she was a person who was to be put in a position to defend her personal freedom in relation to the authority of the State, the latter having already attributed to [the applicant], by the investigators' bias, the quality of the person being a suspect. (...)

This situation is in contradiction with the applicant's immediate subsequent detention, although she had just been treated with a maternal attitude and kind affection. This course of events certainly created some embarrassment, especially for the person concerned, which should have been avoided (...) in order to safeguard the dignity [of the applicant] (...), as well as her personal freedom as a fundamental and inviolable right of the person, which constitutes an aspect ... of fundamental human rights. (...)

[In this context] the principle of the presumption of innocence was also ignored. (...) »

Last edited by Numbers; 17th November 2018 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 17th November 2018, 05:57 PM   #1860
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Amanda Knox was locked up for three years after being convicted of falsely advising official police investigators that an innocent man committed the rape and murder of Meredith Kercher.

She served her time, hence is an 'ex-convict'.

Clear now?
"Ex-convict" is not the same thing as "ex-felon".

One can be an ex-convict as that commonly refers to someone who has served prison time and has been released. So you could call Amanda an ex-convict...for now. That will be incorrect once the ECHR rules in her favor and Italy corrects their horrendous mistake. However, if one is convicted of a felony and remains convicted, they are always a felon. There is no such thing as an 'ex-felon'.

Clear now?
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Old 17th November 2018, 06:06 PM   #1861
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The Perugia police in action:

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Old 17th November 2018, 06:12 PM   #1862
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Oh dear. You've migrated to another thread to try to form a gang.
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Old 17th November 2018, 06:45 PM   #1863
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Here's another falsehood, a very sloppy one, from a guilter post (emphasis added):

"Amanda Knox was locked up for three years after being convicted of falsely advising official police investigators that an innocent man committed the rape and murder of Meredith Kercher."

A subtle hint: I have added emphasis to a word that is a clue about the falsity of the statement.

Are there any guesses as to why the statement is false?
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Old 17th November 2018, 07:02 PM   #1864
Numbers
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Here's another little quiz game. This one may be challenging.

The Boninsegna court acquittal of Amanda Knox on charges of calunnia (false accusation) against the police and prosecutor Mignini became final because the prosecution did not file any appeal. Why did the prosecution not file an appeal?

Here are some possible choices:

1. The prosecution had intended to file, but they ran out of paper, and due to budget constraints were unable to buy more before the legal time limit expired. Thus, they couldn't submit an appeal document to the courts.

2. The prosecution had intended to file an appeal based on the audiovisual recordings and detailed minutes or notes the police and prosecutor had made of the interrogation, as required by Italian procedural law. The prosecution asked the police and prosecutor Mignini for this evidence, but for some reason, the police and Mignini did not supply it before the time limit for an appeal lapsed.

3. The Free Masons, the US Government, or pro-Knox web posters intervened by magically disappearing the prosecution appeal document before it could be submitted.

4. Some other reason to be specified by the contestant.

Last edited by Numbers; 17th November 2018 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 17th November 2018, 07:05 PM   #1865
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh dear. You've migrated to another thread to try to form a gang.
No, you said "what?" and she clarified what she meant.

And that link provided some very entertaining moments! "Classified" indeed! Har har har har har!!!!
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Old 17th November 2018, 07:58 PM   #1866
The Central Scrutinizer
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
It is truly bizarre the bandwidth the mainline media gives to a random Seattleite, whose notoriety comes from being falsely accused of murder, a decade ago in a country far, far away.

So I guess we shouldn't be so hard on Vixen..... but why, why, why, why, why is the following even news, and why is it important enough (in 2018!) to make the front page of the CNN webpage?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/17/enter...son/index.html
I hope that guy sleeps with one eye open, given her past behavior!
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Old 18th November 2018, 12:07 AM   #1867
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Here's another falsehood, a very sloppy one, from a guilter post (emphasis added):

"Amanda Knox was locked up for three years after being convicted of falsely advising official police investigators that an innocent man committed the rape and murder of Meredith Kercher."

A subtle hint: I have added emphasis to a word that is a clue about the falsity of the statement.

Are there any guesses as to why the statement is false?
I'm disappointed that there are no guesses so far, even though I provided a subtle but useful hint, and the statement as made by the guilter is absolutely false. It shows a really hilarious disregard for facts.

So here's the truth about the sentence imposed on Knox for calunnia against Lumumba:

When Amanda Knox was finally convicted of calunnia (false accusation) against Patrick (Diya) Lumumba, the date was 25 March 2013 and she was at home in Seattle. She spent no time in any prison after that date.

When on 3 October 2011 Amanda Knox was provisionally convicted of calunnia against Lumumba, she was also provisionally acquitted of the charges of murder/rape of Kercher. The court ordered that Knox be immediately released from prison and she returned to Seattle. The sentence of 3 years attributed to Charge F, calunnia against Lumumba, without the aggravating factor, was applied retroactively - that is, to the time Knox had already spent in prison while the Massei court and Hellmann appeal court trials had been proceeding.

One benefit of the conviction and sentencing for calunnia against Lumumba is that it gave Knox an excellent case to bring before the ECHR regarding her allegations that her Convention rights had been violated by that conviction. Had she been acquitted, Knox would likely not be able, under current ECHR case-law, to bring a case to the ECHR regarding the denial of a lawyer during her interrogation. However, ECHR case-law would allow her to bring a case alleging inhuman or degrading treatment. It is uncertain if the Italian courts can consistently and effectively recognize any such violations without the benefit of an ECHR judgment against Italy.

Last edited by Numbers; 18th November 2018 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 18th November 2018, 06:05 AM   #1868
Welshman
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Er, what were you saying the other day about your bleeding heart towards the Kercher family?

The words 'insincerity', 'hypocrisy' and 'callous mockery' spring to mind.

Who cares what some rightly convicted ex-felon does?
The above post is a perfect example of how PGP are repulsive and disgusting individuals. The PIP are sincere in their condolences towards the Kerchers and have never mocked the Kerchers and it disgusting to falsely accuse people of not being sincere in their condolences and mocking the Kerchers. Vixen and other members of TJMK had no problem with Gude having his sentence reduced and for some strange reason don’t regard this as mocking the Kerchers. Another example of repulsive hypocrisy by PGP.

It beggars belief Vixen can attack people for hypocrisy when as can be seen from the posts below Vixen has a long history of disgusting hypocrisy :-

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8#post12494768

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post12482001

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1#post12459161

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...9#post12455239

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post12311573

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7#post12296807

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...9#post12283599

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6#post12257176

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6#post12243936

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post12090230
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Old 18th November 2018, 07:39 AM   #1869
ctb1234
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
I hope that guy sleeps with one eye open, given her past behavior!
Chris is engaged to Amanda Knox who was falsely convicted, and has never shown any signs of worrying behaviour. He is not engaged to Rudy Guede, so he can safely sleep with both eyes shut. Do not fret my dear, you are not the only one who seems to make this mistake

Again congrats to Amanda and Chris xxx
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Old 18th November 2018, 08:14 AM   #1870
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Welshman View Post
The above post is a perfect example of how PGP are repulsive and disgusting individuals. The PIP are sincere in their condolences towards the Kerchers and have never mocked the Kerchers....
This is not entirely true. Over the years there have been two or three PIP who have treated the Kerchers very poorly. That has been the subject of one of the few episodes of friction within....
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Old 18th November 2018, 11:04 AM   #1871
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
I hope that guy sleeps with one eye open, given her past behavior!
If only there was some way that you could tell whether or not this ad hominem was justified. If only there was a corpus of material - like 24 continuations of a thread or something - that could be read through.

Oh wait. This just in.... even the original prosecutors conceded in 2017 that the pair had been exonerated.

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Old 18th November 2018, 11:18 AM   #1872
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Here's another little quiz game. This one may be challenging.

The Boninsegna court acquittal of Amanda Knox on charges of calunnia (false accusation) against the police and prosecutor Mignini became final because the prosecution did not file any appeal. Why did the prosecution not file an appeal?

Here are some possible choices:

1. The prosecution had intended to file, but they ran out of paper, and due to budget constraints were unable to buy more before the legal time limit expired. Thus, they couldn't submit an appeal document to the courts.

2. The prosecution had intended to file an appeal based on the audiovisual recordings and detailed minutes or notes the police and prosecutor had made of the interrogation, as required by Italian procedural law. The prosecution asked the police and prosecutor Mignini for this evidence, but for some reason, the police and Mignini did not supply it before the time limit for an appeal lapsed.

3. The Free Masons, the US Government, or pro-Knox web posters intervened by magically disappearing the prosecution appeal document before it could be submitted.

4. Some other reason to be specified by the contestant.
This question still needs to be answered.

I think those who believe the falsehood that the Italian judicial system requires or includes "automatic" appeals should be eager to respond.

However, those thinking that the Italian judicial system requires or includes "automatic" appeals may wish to read Italian Code of Criminal Procedure (CPP) Articles 568 - 592 and most specifically CPP Article 585, Time limits for appellate remedies, before responding.

Here's a hint summarizing the Italian law contained in the text of CPP Article 585: an appeal must be filed, for the most complex cases, within 45 days of the publication of the motivation report. The motivation report is also called the "grounds of the judgment" in the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure.

The "most complex cases" are those in which the short-term verdict that must be given at the conclusion of any trial deliberation must provide a publication date for the motivation report (see CPP 544). That publication date must be no later than 90 days after the end of trial deliberation.

The time limits for less complex cases depend on the degree of complexity: 15 days when the motivation report is published essentially immediately at the end of the trial deliberation or 30 days when the motivation report is published within 15 days of the end of the trial deliberation.

In all cases, the short-form verdict must be published immediately following the end of the trial deliberation. In a motivation report, the short-form verdict is repeated and attached at the end of the document, under the heading "For these reasons" - in Italian, "Per questi motivi", often seen abbreviated as "P. Q. M."

Last edited by Numbers; 18th November 2018 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 18th November 2018, 01:01 PM   #1873
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
This is not entirely true. Over the years there have been two or three PIP who have treated the Kerchers very poorly. That has been the subject of one of the few episodes of friction within....
I have never been one of those people, as you know. Vixen's false accusations against me of mocking the Kerchers or being insincere are just that: false. Anyone here who has read what I actually wrote can clearly see that. I think even Vixen can but chooses to take the low road anyway.
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Old 18th November 2018, 01:12 PM   #1874
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
I hope that guy sleeps with one eye open, given her past behavior!
I think you PGP are actually disappointed that, in the 7 years that she has been free, she has led nothing but a productive life. Do you so badly need to have your opinion of her being a psychopath killer verified? Is it so difficult to admit you were wrong?
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Old 18th November 2018, 03:08 PM   #1875
bagels
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
It is truly bizarre the bandwidth the mainline media gives to a random Seattleite, whose notoriety comes from being falsely accused of murder, a decade ago in a country far, far away.

So I guess we shouldn't be so hard on Vixen..... but why, why, why, why, why is the following even news, and why is it important enough (in 2018!) to make the front page of the CNN webpage?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/17/enter...son/index.html
Amanda's #1 fans are guilters. They can't get enough of her. She's still getting more comments and clicks at the Daily Mail than just about anybody.
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Old 18th November 2018, 03:57 PM   #1876
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Here's another little quiz game. This one may be challenging.

The Boninsegna court acquittal of Amanda Knox on charges of calunnia (false accusation) against the police and prosecutor Mignini became final because the prosecution did not file any appeal. Why did the prosecution not file an appeal?

Here are some possible choices:

1. The prosecution had intended to file, but they ran out of paper, and due to budget constraints were unable to buy more before the legal time limit expired. Thus, they couldn't submit an appeal document to the courts.

2. The prosecution had intended to file an appeal based on the audiovisual recordings and detailed minutes or notes the police and prosecutor had made of the interrogation, as required by Italian procedural law. The prosecution asked the police and prosecutor Mignini for this evidence, but for some reason, the police and Mignini did not supply it before the time limit for an appeal lapsed.

3. The Free Masons, the US Government, or pro-Knox web posters intervened by magically disappearing the prosecution appeal document before it could be submitted.

4. Some other reason to be specified by the contestant.
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
This question still needs to be answered.

I think those who believe the falsehood that the Italian judicial system requires or includes "automatic" appeals should be eager to respond.

However, those thinking that the Italian judicial system requires or includes "automatic" appeals may wish to read Italian Code of Criminal Procedure (CPP) Articles 568 - 592 and most specifically CPP Article 585, Time limits for appellate remedies, before responding.

Here's a hint summarizing the Italian law contained in the text of CPP Article 585: an appeal must be filed, for the most complex cases, within 45 days of the publication of the motivation report. The motivation report is also called the "grounds of the judgment" in the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure.

The "most complex cases" are those in which the short-term verdict that must be given at the conclusion of any trial deliberation must provide a publication date for the motivation report (see CPP 544). That publication date must be no later than 90 days after the end of trial deliberation.

The time limits for less complex cases depend on the degree of complexity: 15 days when the motivation report is published essentially immediately at the end of the trial deliberation or 30 days when the motivation report is published within 15 days of the end of the trial deliberation.

In all cases, the short-form verdict must be published immediately following the end of the trial deliberation. In a motivation report, the short-form verdict is repeated and attached at the end of the document, under the heading "For these reasons" - in Italian, "Per questi motivi", often seen abbreviated as "P. Q. M."
The Boninsegna court judgment acquitting Amanda Knox of calunnia against the police and prosecutor Mignini is a final judgment because it was not appealed. I suggest it was not appealed because the prosecutor could not find any credible evidence that would refute the judgment of acquittal, which specified that she had not committed the crime of calunnia because there was no intent by her to falsely accuse. The Boninsegna court motivation report states that the procedural and defense rights violations apparent in the Nov. 5/6, 2007 interrogation justified Amanda Knox's belief that she had been intentionally subjected to them by the police and prosecutor Mignini.

It is likely that the ECHR, when it judges Knox v. Italy, will rely on the Boninsegna court motivation report and similar information. An indication of that possibility is that the 29 April, 2016 Communication to Italy quoted a number of relevant excerpts from the Boninsegna court motivation report.

Last edited by Numbers; 18th November 2018 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 18th November 2018, 08:39 PM   #1877
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I have never been one of those people, as you know. Vixen's false accusations against me of mocking the Kerchers or being insincere are just that: false. Anyone here who has read what I actually wrote can clearly see that. I think even Vixen can but chooses to take the low road anyway.
I concur, you yourself have never been disparaging to the Kerchers, and Vixen is playing an overt game by not even so much as twisting your words.....

.... but by outright lying about what your words mean.
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Old 19th November 2018, 11:12 AM   #1878
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
I concur, you yourself have never been disparaging to the Kerchers, and Vixen is playing an overt game by not even so much as twisting your words.....

.... but by outright lying about what your words mean.
Doubling down on a lie doesn't make it any less a lie, either.
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Old 19th November 2018, 11:43 AM   #1879
Welshman
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
I concur, you yourself have never been disparaging to the Kerchers, and Vixen is playing an overt game by not even so much as twisting your words.....

.... but by outright lying about what your words mean.
Vixen constantly bangs on about Amanda telling lies but spreads malicious lies about members of the forum. A perfect example of repulsive hypocrisy. Vixen has the cheek to call people stupid when Vixen can't understand something as simple that it is hypocritical to lie whilst attacking people for lying.
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Old 19th November 2018, 03:42 PM   #1880
bagels
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To summarize the last 20,000 posts or so:

Us: Knox was acquitted cause the evidence against her was bad, the high court and all esteemed commenters unanimously agreed on this too.

Vixen: No you're wrong it's a mafia conspiracy.

Us: Nah lol
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