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Tags "Press for Truth" , Cofer Black , documentaries , george tenet , John Duffy , Khalid al-Mihdhar , Nawaf al-Hazmi , Ray Nowosielski , Richard Blee , richard clarke , sibel edmonds

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Old 21st May 2012, 06:06 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by ergo View Post
Oh, I see. You mocked and ridiculed "truthers" on an internet message board. Way to rock the establishment, Myriad. You're such a warrior.
And tirelessly pushing the kooky theories on said forum make one a Truther hero?
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Old 22nd May 2012, 03:08 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Exactly. The hypocrisy makes me want to puke. What do you suggest, oh "respectful" Myriad, I should have done other than what I did, namely drawing attention to it here and elsewhere and tell the dildo and his partners in cover-up time and time again that they are hiding behind alleged "kooks" to avoid the real issues? Hmm? If I would have had the power to throw the "kooks" into the dark dungeon below my Ivory Tower to shut them up, I would have done so and rest assured that you would have been thrown in with them for good measurement. But I hadn't.
Myriad didn't ask why you didn't do X in particular, he asked you why you didn't do anything to solve the problem. Nice straw man, which is why I assume you didn't respond until after Ergo graciously created an excuse for you not to respond to the original post.

Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Ah, so you were aware of the problem too.

But you did nothing about it, and it's too late now. Tough break, I know.

Respectfully,
Myriad

Originally Posted by ergo View Post
Oh, I see. You mocked and ridiculed "truthers" on an internet message board. Way to rock the establishment, Myriad. You're such a warrior.
Tu quoque, ad hominem, ignoring the actual point he's making. This is especially hypocritical since a large portion of your posts contain thinly or not so thinly-veiled mockery of "bedunkers" while you are remarkably loath to engage in any actual debate.

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Old 22nd May 2012, 04:12 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
You made up the "criminally obstructed" nonsense. The, "a crime" is made up too.

The conclusions you make are not clear from the evidence and facts. Books are already written which cover your "evidence" and "facts" you use to make politically biased nonsensical conclusions.

Not sure how anyone could stop 911 without clear knowledge of the means of the attack. Looking back, we should have had secure cockpits for the past 50 years, and never let a hijacker take a plane. All future USA hijackings have been ruined by 19 idiots who committed suicide and murder on 911.

911 was figured out on 911 by Flight 93 passengers first - they took action. Believe me, the CIA, FBI, and all DOD intel sources can not help you when you meet a new threat, a new tactic, a surprise, you need to be calm and take action. It is not the CIA and FBI fault we did not have secure cockpits before 911, it is our complacency. If you have great insight, what have you done to stop the next surprise attack?

Not a thing you produced explains how you get to preventing 911. You don't try to explain how the data they had would prevent 911. How would they get the plot by arresting anyone?

19 terrorists did 911 - they are solely responsible

If you have so much insight, like the OP author, why are you not advisers for fixing the FBI and CIA? Where is your Pulitzer?
We know these government investigations were criminally obstructed. While I can give you the exact details, it is easier just to say what else explains the fact that I could find the information that I have posted in this forum, using the exact same documents that the 9/11 Commission and DOJ Inspector General claimed they had. Both the 9/11 Commission and DOJ IG even completely ignored the information they did have when they drew up their conclusions, conclusions that were made only to protect the criminals at the CIA and FBI HQ who had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place. Perhaps they did not have the Moussaoui documents, but they did have the original emails from Wilshire, Corsi, Middleton, Bongardt, Soufan, the NSA release to Corsi so she could give her EC with the NSA cable to Bongardt, the CIA cables to the CIA that described the identification of Walid Bin Attash at Kuala Lumpur that went to the CIA and the CIA cables that left out any mention of Bin Attash, Mihdhar, or the meeting in Kuala Lumpur that went to the FBI and Soufan, plus all of the original testimony from Soufan, Wilshire, Shannon, Blee, Corsi, Middleton, Freeh, Tenet and Black.

This testimony along with these emails and CIA cables now prove that the CIA working with FBI HQ agents the CIA had corrupted had first intentionally and deliberately withheld material information from the ongoing FBI criminal investigation into the Cole bombing, the information that Walid Bin Attash had been identified at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting in January 2000, with Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi actually planning the Cole bombing and then shut down the criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi when FBI Agent Steve Bongardt found out that these terrorists were inside of the US, in order to take part in a horrific al Qaeda attack.

Both the CIA and FBI HQ knew by shutting down this one investigation that could have prevented this attack that they knew was just about to take place, would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out this attack and murder thousands of Americans. It is now clear from the US governments own reports on 9/11 that the CIA, and Tenet, Black, Blee, and many others, 50-60 people according to the CIA executive summary, deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 innocent Americans on 9/11.

Last edited by paloalto; 22nd May 2012 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 22nd May 2012, 04:23 PM   #204
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How do you differentiate between "criminally obstructed" and "made a mistake?"

Wouldn't you have to show the criminal benefited in some fashion?
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Old 22nd May 2012, 04:50 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
How do you differentiate between "criminally obstructed" and "made a mistake?"

Wouldn't you have to show the criminal benefited in some fashion?
Criminal obstruction is when you know you have information that could prevent a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack that will kill thousands of Americans and deliberately hide this information and even go so far as to shut down FBI criminal investigations to keep this information secret using lies and subterfuge.

And they did benefit. It is clear that the CIA wanted the information that Walid Bin Attash, one of the masterminds of the Cole bombing, had been identified at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting in January 2000, with Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi actually planning the Cole bombing, kept secret to hide their criminal culpability in allowing the attacks on the USS Cole to take place.

The CIA had known about the al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur in advance, had the attendees photographed and many identified as long time al Qaeda terrorists who had been connected to the east African bombings, and then inexplicably let them all walk away with no further surveillance to carry out the Cole bombing 9 months later.

Since these terrorists were already connected to the east Africa bombings, and since the FBI had jurisdiction over the investigation into the murder of 12 Americans from this bombing, the CIA had committed the crime of withholding material information from the FBI by not giving the FBI the information from this meeting and the fact that at least one and possibly other al Qaeda terrorists at this meeting had visas for the US. This was a crime.

When these actions allowed the al Qaeda terrorists, many of whom had been at this meeting, to carry out the Cole bombing the CIA knew it had to keep this information secret from the FBI Cole bombing investigators even though by doing this they were then committing another crime. Had this information come out Tenet, Black and Blee would have been out of a job, and maybe in prison, and the CIA investigated by Congress to find out why so much criminal activity had taken place at this one agency.
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Old 22nd May 2012, 08:45 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
... Both the CIA and FBI HQ knew by shutting down this one investigation that could have prevented this attack that they knew was just about to take place, would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out this attack and murder thousands of Americans. It is now clear from the US governments own reports on 9/11 that the CIA, and Tenet, Black, Blee, and many others, 50-60 people according to the CIA executive summary, deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 innocent Americans on 9/11.
They knew before 911 they could stop the attack? You make big giant leaps to fantasy conclusions.

Feel free to get a Pulitzer. Stop posting the same old junk and fake conclusions.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 07:06 AM   #207
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Thanks CE for the extremely interesting links.

...funny, how hysterical those lonely selfcentered hyper-posters react without taking the time to listen or read.

btw, the website of the investigators obviously was taken down but the link to their podcast is still active and it's full of interviews. Here is a link.



http://secrecy-kills.s3.amazonaws.com/BleePodcast1.mp3
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Old 23rd May 2012, 07:19 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by achimspok View Post
Thanks CE for the extremely interesting links.

...funny, how hysterical those lonely selfcentered hyper-posters react without taking the time to listen or read.

btw, the website of the investigators obviously was taken down but the link to their podcast is still active and it's full of interviews. Here is a link.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2e3sryv.jpg

http://secrecy-kills.s3.amazonaws.com/BleePodcast1.mp3
Wow, interesting and far out woo. The CIA must of taken the website down. Satan like guys in the CIA, a Major Tom bad guy thing. Wow. Did the CIA plant the passport too, in your paranoid fantasy world of 911?

No Pulitzer for Boiling Frogs? What?

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Old 23rd May 2012, 11:09 AM   #209
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Mod WarningRemoved breaches.
Posted By:LashL

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Old 23rd May 2012, 11:50 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I'm waiting for someone to address a specific something.
Originally Posted by achimspok View Post
Thanks CE for the extremely interesting links.

...funny, how hysterical those lonely selfcentered hyper-posters react without taking the time to listen or read.

btw, the website of the investigators obviously was taken down but the link to their podcast is still active and it's full of interviews.

You're welcome, Achim. That was the specific something I was waiting for to get addressed by someone. No surprise that it was none of our oh-so-investigative duhbunkie friends who did so. Yes, the site is offline since several months and the second part of the podcast was never released, at least not to my knowledge and that of some informed people i've asked.

Successfully threatened, one can conclude.

And as i've said before, all those people interviewed are now aware of the bigger, cumulative picture.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 12:04 PM   #211
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...

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Old 23rd May 2012, 12:55 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
Criminal obstruction is when you know you have information that could prevent a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack that will kill thousands of Americans and deliberately hide this information and even go so far as to shut down FBI criminal investigations to keep this information secret using lies and subterfuge.
You assume they "knew" their information "could" prevent an attack?

How do you know they believed the attack would actually take place instead of just being an option?

Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
And they did benefit. It is clear that the CIA wanted the information that Walid Bin Attash, one of the masterminds of the Cole bombing, had been identified at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting in January 2000, with Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi actually planning the Cole bombing, kept secret to hide their criminal culpability in allowing the attacks on the USS Cole to take place.
You have absolutely no idea that this was the motivation.........you are assuming based off of your uninformed opinion. Such assumptions are worthless in real life although they might carry weight on internet chat forums.

Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
The CIA had known about the al Qaeda planning meeting in Kuala Lumpur in advance, had the attendees photographed and many identified as long time al Qaeda terrorists who had been connected to the east African bombings, and then inexplicably let them all walk away with no further surveillance to carry out the Cole bombing 9 months later.
Inexplicably to you.

But you are inexperienced in anything related to Intel or actions based off of Intel.......so who cares if it is inexplicable to you? It is not relevant.

Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
Since these terrorists were already connected to the east Africa bombings, and since the FBI had jurisdiction over the investigation into the murder of 12 Americans from this bombing, the CIA had committed the crime of withholding material information from the FBI by not giving the FBI the information from this meeting and the fact that at least one and possibly other al Qaeda terrorists at this meeting had visas for the US. This was a crime.
The FBI's jurisdiction was not as broad or deep back then as it is now........the FBI has had their powers expanded post 9/11.

Withholding information was not and is not now a crime. These agencies withhold information from each other on a regular basis....for all kinds of reasons...some good reasons and some horrible reasons.

Should it be a prosecutable crime? Maybe it should be.....but it occured back then and it still does today and there are few consequences.

Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
When these actions allowed the al Qaeda terrorists, many of whom had been at this meeting, to carry out the Cole bombing the CIA knew it had to keep this information secret from the FBI Cole bombing investigators even though by doing this they were then committing another crime. Had this information come out Tenet, Black and Blee would have been out of a job, and maybe in prison, and the CIA investigated by Congress to find out why so much criminal activity had taken place at this one agency.
Why did they withhold it?

I'm not sure...........could it have been to cover their asses? Possibly. Are there other possible reasons that perhaps seemed to make sense at the time? Of course.

The truth is that we do not know exactly what people were thinking at the time.......maybe you should stop claiming to be able to read peoples minds.


There have been a few people on here with experience working with some of these agencies that have tried to explain things to you....tried to teach you a bit about a world that is almost completely alien to you. A world you know next to nothing about.......yet we have been gracious enough to try and talk to you like a grown up despite your ridiculous claims and lack of knowledge.

This is why most people with knowledge in areas such as engineering, the military, the FAA, the Intel agencies, etc eventually ignore truthers and do not engage them anymore unless it is to mock them.

Your opinions and assumptions have no weight with anyone who knows about this material and have zero impact on anything or anyone.....so you are free to live in your clueless world while those of us working to keep you safe continue to do so despite your armchair quarterback useless opinions of a world you know next to nothing about.
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Old 23rd May 2012, 03:03 PM   #213
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Good god almighty!

Originally Posted by achimspok View Post
Thanks CE for the extremely interesting links.

...funny, how hysterical those lonely selfcentered hyper-posters react without taking the time to listen or read.

btw, the website of the investigators obviously was taken down but the link to their podcast is still active and it's full of interviews. Here is a link.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2e3sryv.jpg

http://secrecy-kills.s3.amazonaws.com/BleePodcast1.mp3
In this podcast, Governor Kean, one of the heads of the 9/11 Commission, says 8 years after the release of the 9/11 Commission report the same thing I had found in my research of this report, that the CIA had lied to the 9/11 Commission and had deliberately withheld material information from the FBI on Mihdhar and Hazmi, and the fact that Mihdhar has a US visa, that Hazmi also had a US visa since the CIA had known since March 5, 2000 that Hazmi was already inside of the US. This is the information that if it had gone to the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing would have prevented the attacks on 9/11.

The CIA also withheld the fact from the FBI Cole bombing investigators that Walid Bin Attash had been positively identified from photos taken of him at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting in January 2000 with Mihdhar and Hazmi actually planning the Cole bombing. Why did it take 6 years for Kean to admit this and why does this completely contradict the 9/11 Commission conclusions that the attacks on 9/11 happened because of a lack of imagination. The 9/11 Commission knew that the CIA had deliberately allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place allowing the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 innocent people, and they somehow just left this out of their 9/11 Commission report.

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Old 23rd May 2012, 10:02 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
... The 9/11 Commission knew that the CIA had deliberately allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place allowing the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 innocent people, and they somehow just left this out of their 9/11 Commission report.
You take information known in hind sight, then leap to made up claims and made conclusions. You leave out how, add woo... What is it called, leaving out the how?
... leaving out the stuff between the stuff you googled, and the claims you make, the stuff, the how of the leap... how do you leap to the conclusions you make? How did you learn to read minds? Why have you failed to collect the JREF million dollar challenge?


Mihdhar and Hazmi, two dolts who could not learn to fly - not needed to do 911. 19 -2 = 17 (good pilots don't kill themselves or others - the only bad pilots on earth are those who fly jets on 911 into buildings and the grd in PA, and all pilots who sign up with Balsamo's failed pilots club who say they could not fly jets into buildings in the safety of a simulator)

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Old 24th May 2012, 01:32 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by newton3376 View Post
You assume they "knew" their information "could" prevent an attack?

How do you know they believed the attack would actually take place instead of just being an option?
I'm not sure that I understand your point. You say essentially
- after the Bojinka Plot ("48h terror" in FBI language) all the planners met in Malaysia
- two of them enter the US right after that meeting and start to take flying lessons
Just think it to the end.

Let me guess: The knowledge about these TWO became public because of one small footnote (Ch 6 [44]) in the Zelikow-Report and it took years of energy to find a spot of truth behind that tiny little detail.
I suspect that they knew much more about that. I remind you that Tenet, Kyl and sweet daddy Bob Graham had two secret meetings in Pakistan with General Mahmoud (the Atta paymaster). Coincidentally they all met in the White House on 9/11 in "reverse" so to say.
Given the knowledge of Tenet at that time + given the engagement of Blee in Afghanistan to link Iraq and Al Qaeda by the very first interrogation + given the desperate tries of Graham to white wash his role without being accused of anything + given that the US never wanted the Navy Seals to go in and shoot down Mahmoud after the money trail was an undeniable fact + given that UBL never was linked to 9/11 by any evidence of a similar magnitude + given that the US (military or CIA) has a strange amount of videotapes from Al Qaeda meetings at Tarnak Farm (taken with two separate cameras at the same meeting and professionally edited to fake an ongoing camcorder tape without sound***) + given the fact that the CIA observed Atta in Hamburg buying "chemicals" + given tha fact that some Atta tried to buy a cropduster in the US while Atta still was in Hamburg under surveillance and given the fact that the cropduster Atta apparently knew a lot about airplanes over Washington ...

***the faked camcorder type wasn't able to record without sound - it would have shown a service message

Do you think they just knew about those TWO? Do you see the forest?

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Old 24th May 2012, 12:23 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Yes, the site is offline since several months and the second part of the podcast was never released, at least not to my knowledge and that of some informed people i've asked. Successfully threatened, one can conclude.
I'm sure Aung San Suu Kyi weeps at the terrible injustice these men have suffered.
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Old 24th May 2012, 03:38 PM   #217
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Press what for truth?
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Old 24th May 2012, 04:16 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
You take information known in hind sight, then leap to made up claims and made conclusions. What is it called, leaving out the how?
... leaving out the stuff between the stuff you googled, and the claims you make, the stuff, the how of the leap... how do you leap to the conclusions you make? How did you learn to read minds? Why have you failed to collect the JREF million dollar challenge?


Mihdhar and Hazmi, two dolts who could not learn to fly - not needed to do 911. 19 -2 = 17 (good pilots don't kill themselves or others - the only bad pilots on earth are those who fly jets on 911 into buildings and the grd in PA, and all pilots who sign up with Balsamo's failed pilots club who say they could not fly jets into buildings in the safety of a simulator)
These are not my conclusions but conclusions and statements that Governor Kean, one of the heads of the 9/11 Commission, made in this podcast. These are Governor Kean’s conclusions. HELLO! HELLO! IS ANYONE HOME!

So your claim is that Governor Kean is " leaving out how, add woo...". You don't even believe the people who headed the original 9/11 Commission. What he is saying is that their conclusions in the final 9/11 Commission report were all a lie and that Tenet lied to the 9/11 Commission and the American people when he said that the CIA had given the information on Midhar and Hazmi to the FBI from the beginning.

What more can I say!

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Old 24th May 2012, 08:43 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Termites divide up the jobs between them too.
The interesting part is always who believes whom.

Mineta vs. Cheney:
Was Cheney in the PEOC and updated about the plane location?

Tenet vs. Clark:
Did the CIA withheld vital information?

Paul vs. Rice:
Was Paul sent to the UN with wrong information?

Rumsfeld vs. Rumsfeld:
Did he do his duty?

FBI vs. FBI:
Did the property owner of Abdul Rahman Alomari give the agents the licence number of Mohammed Atta as "authorized" to park infront of the house as sworn by the FBI?

My take: yes, yes, yes, no, no
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Old 24th May 2012, 10:38 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Triterope View Post
And so it is with the Press-For-Truth crowd when they occasionally stumble on a real fact. An explanation like "petty intraoffice FBI/CIA turf fights" isn't good enough for them. It's too mundane, too non-conspiratorial, and doesn't fulfill their fantasy of marching high-level Bush officials to the gallows. The material doesn't fit what they want to believe.

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
So, the 9/11 attacks were the result of "petty intraoffice FBI/CIA turf fights"?

Where's your evidence for this claim?
If this is an example of your reading for comprehension, your reasoning skills, or even your ability to construct clear, concise sentences Ö

Ö it's no wonder at all that you're a truther.

I'd be embarrassed to have this out in public as an example of mine.

Perhaps you'd care to try again ...?
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Old 25th May 2012, 04:01 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by achimspok View Post
The interesting part is always who believes whom.

Mineta vs. Cheney:
Was Cheney in the PEOC and updated about the plane location?

Tenet vs. Clark:
Did the CIA withheld vital information?

Paul vs. Rice:
Was Paul sent to the UN with wrong information?

Rumsfeld vs. Rumsfeld:
Did he do his duty?

FBI vs. FBI:
Did the property owner of Abdul Rahman Alomari give the agents the licence number of Mohammed Atta as "authorized" to park infront of the house as sworn by the FBI?

My take: yes, yes, yes, no, no
Why do you think that you know more than the experts?
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Old 25th May 2012, 06:43 AM   #222
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My post from another thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1921

Standard after-the-fact CYA.
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Old 25th May 2012, 07:22 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Why do you think that you know more than the experts?
LOL, it's not a question of experts, isn't it?

Who are the experts?

Is Cheney the expert or is Mineta the expert?
Is Tenet the expert or is Clark the expert?
...
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Old 25th May 2012, 07:57 AM   #224
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Oh great; another intel armchair quarterback who thinks the intel community is infallible and immediately, without any context, knows exactly what will happen and when and decides to do nothing about it.

I am so sick of you people thinking you know how the intel community works. Tell you what; get yourself a security clearance and a job working as an intel analyst (and good luck to you on passing the background investigations, considering your rampant demonstrated paranoia), and THEN come and talk to me about the way things should have gone.

I get incredibly pissed off at people who know absolutely NOTHING about how the US Intel Community works spouting off at the mouth about how things SHOULD have gone before 9/11 without ever once taking into account that you know exactly two things about how it works, Jack and ****, and Jack left town, to quote Mr. Bruce Campbell. Do the job first; THEN you might have an inkling of the way things actually were in the government before 9/11, as well as how they are now. Only then will you be able to speak with a modicum of knowledge about what may or may not have gone down prior to 9/11; until then, sit down, shut up, and acknowledge that you know absolutely NOTHING.

Last edited by Sabrina; 25th May 2012 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 25th May 2012, 09:29 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
Do the job first; THEN you might have an inkling of the way things actually were in the government before 9/11, as well as how they are now. Only then will you be able to speak with a modicum of knowledge about what may or may not have gone down prior to 9/11; until then, sit down, shut up, and acknowledge that you know absolutely NOTHING.
Yeah...........THIS^^^^^^
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Old 25th May 2012, 12:14 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by newton3376 View Post
Yeah...........THIS^^^^^^
Authoritarianism at its finest. This is the sort of commentary I would expect some Soviet citizens to make about the KGB during the Cold War.

If this is all hindsight and ignorant Internet posting then it shouldn't be difficult for someone to come forward and explain why it made sense to obstruct al Qaeda investigations. If you want context the initial CIA withholding took place just after the Millennium threat when the intelligence community was on full alert for possible attack. The later withholding took place during a time when "the system was blinking red."

Former Senator Graham mentioned the prospect of Saudi involvement and US corruption. Evidently you would have the public believe there is no possibility of corruption in the US intelligence community.

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Old 25th May 2012, 12:29 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by thatsmystory View Post
Authoritarianism at its finest.
Incorrect.

It's real world experience at it's finest...........Sabrina and I both have experience (somewhat different experiences when it comes to specifics but still the same world) when it comes to working with or for Intel agencies.....so unsurprisingly our views on certain topics are similar.

It's what happens when you have people with some real life experience as to how stuff works in the real world as opposed to fantasy-trutherland.

Originally Posted by thatsmystory View Post
This is the sort of commentary I would expect some Soviet citizens to make about the KGB during the Cold War.
Your expectations come from ignorance.........read what we wrote over and over and attempt to get some reality.........

Originally Posted by thatsmystory View Post
If this is all hindsight and ignorant Internet posting then it shouldn't be difficult for someone to come forward and explain why it made sense to obstruct al Qaeda investigations. If you want context the initial CIA withholding took place just after the Millennium threat when the intelligence community was on full alert for possible attack. The later withholding took place during a time when "the system was blinking red."
We have already explained various reasons why this occured.........not all of the reasons are reasons people like, but there it is.

If you want the EXACT reasons then I would suggest developing the ability to read minds and travel back in time.......good luck with that

Originally Posted by thatsmystory View Post
Former Senator Graham mentioned the prospect of Saudi involvement and US corruption. Evidently you would have the public believe there is no possibility of corruption in the US intelligence community.
There is always possibility of corruption.....just as there is possibility of arrogance, ignorance, pettyness, and incompetence.

The one possibility that I highly doubt is that of truthers making good arguments....so far you aren't disappointing
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Old 25th May 2012, 01:09 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by thatsmystory View Post
Authoritarianism at its finest. This is the sort of commentary I would expect some Soviet citizens to make about the KGB during the Cold War.

If this is all hindsight and ignorant Internet posting then it shouldn't be difficult for someone to come forward and explain why it made sense to obstruct al Qaeda investigations. If you want context the initial CIA withholding took place just after the Millennium threat when the intelligence community was on full alert for possible attack. The later withholding took place during a time when "the system was blinking red."

Former Senator Graham mentioned the prospect of Saudi involvement and US corruption. Evidently you would have the public believe there is no possibility of corruption in the US intelligence community.
Once again, you prove you have no idea what you are talking about.

Do the job yourself, then try to preach to those of us who actually know what we are talking about. Until then, you have absolutely nothing of use to add to the discussion.
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Old 25th May 2012, 03:12 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
Once again, you prove you have no idea what you are talking about.

Do the job yourself, then try to preach to those of us who actually know what we are talking about. Until then, you have absolutely nothing of use to add to the discussion.
Nonsense.

Here is an insider's account. He doesn't seem to think the CIA explanation makes any sense:

Quote:
While they were investigating the attack on the USS Cole in November 2000, Soufan's team learned that an al Qaeda operative had met with other terrorists in Asia and received a large sum of money. Soufan says he made three formal requests through the FBI to the CIA to see if anything was known about what this operative was up to. Each time, he says, the CIA indicated that it did not know anything.

But, Soufan says he later learned the CIA knew - eight months before 9/11 - that this same operative had met in Malaysia with two terrorism suspects who would later hijack the plane that crashed into the Pentagon. And the CIA also knew that those two suspects were heading to the U.S.

"The agency knew that these al Qaeda operatives in Southeast Asia flew to America or they have visas to come to the United States, and somebody decided, 'Let's not share the information,'" Soufan said.

"And if it had been shared with you, what then?" Logan asked.

"I try not to think about that. I try not to think about, about what could have happened. Maybe, maybe thousands of American lives will be spared, maybe," Soufan said.

The Interrogator
What was the point of the urgent CIA briefing to Rice on 7/10/01 in which Rich Blee, the chief of Alec Station, warned that "they're coming here." They were already here and the CIA knew it.
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Old 25th May 2012, 05:14 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by thatsmystory View Post
Nonsense.

Here is an insider's account. He doesn't seem to think the CIA explanation makes any sense:



What was the point of the urgent CIA briefing to Rice on 7/10/01 in which Rich Blee, the chief of Alec Station, warned that "they're coming here." They were already here and the CIA knew it.
You could be agent "googled it". The OP is about nonsense, paranoid nuts, press for truth.
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Old 25th May 2012, 08:27 PM   #231
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It doesn't matter whether or not anyone believes people with actual knowledge when they post here. It doesn't even matter whether anyone who posts here has actual knowledge or not.

What matters is that anyone in a legitimate position to act upon accusations of malfeasance within the intelligence community, of the type made in the OP and during the thread, will either be a person with actual knowledge or will have the sense and ability to consult with people who have actual knowledge.

Which is exactly why these accusations mean nothing, avail nothing, and have already come to nothing long since.

Wishing away expertise, as though it disappears as soon as anyone claims not to believe in it, is a conspiracy theorist hallmark. From the frequent use they make of it, they appear to believe that feckless denial of expertise is a potent weapon against the establishment. And yet, the actual expertise that exists in the world continues to stand between them and everything they claim to want, and has not moved an angstrom from all their noisy efforts.

Respectfully,
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Old 25th May 2012, 09:05 PM   #232
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So where was all this supposed intelligence community "expertise" on 9/11? Taking the day off? Why should anyone believe in a canard like "intelligence community expertise" when that expertise was so utterly impotent in thwarting the 9/11 attacks?

Because you pro-state trolls say so? Ha, ha, ha, fat chance!
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Old 25th May 2012, 09:09 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
Yeah, yeah, yeah. As if I've never heard this "I'm an expert, I know" song and dance before.

You're CIA, and I'm the Pope.
She is an expert.
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Old 25th May 2012, 09:13 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
So where was all this supposed intelligence community "expertise" on 9/11? Taking the day off? Why should anyone believe in a canard like "intelligence community expertise" when that expertise was so utterly impotent in thwarting the 9/11 attacks?

Because you pro-state trolls say so? Ha, ha, ha, fat chance!
The human element, number one cause of airplane disasters, security breaches and lapses in safety. The human element. Yet another thing you have zero knowledge in.
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Old 25th May 2012, 09:14 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
She is an expert.
www.link.com?

www.proof.com?

www.picsoritdidnthappen.com?
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Old 25th May 2012, 09:29 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert View Post
... , no substance to contribute to the failed OP, so we get SPAM. New tactic, how is that working out?

Why have you fail to get a security clearance? How many reasons? How many intelligence briefings have you sat through? How many intelligence officers have you known?

If she is not an expert, she has the knowledge and superior research compared to your failed efforts, zero evidence in support of the nonsense you present. Where is your evidence, and claims? You have zero experience with the CIA, or any intel agencies, and it shows, or you would not be spreading lies from 911 truth.

She is an expert. You lost this one, but next time try reality based research. Liked the SPAM, next time try some evidence for you claims.
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Old 25th May 2012, 09:38 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Liked the SPAM, next time try some evidence for you claims.
It would help if they would make actual claims first. Just saying.
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Old 25th May 2012, 09:40 PM   #238
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@ SpringHallConvert
Nice to see you back. Care to actually discuss the below or are you going to trot off for another week and then come back into the thread and seagullify it with your deposits of wisdom.
You speak in platitudes and cliches. Sloganeering for Truth.

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Feeding off of Mudcat's comment, if you remove the bias in your question and word it the way I've edited it, I think you'd find a number of members here would possibly concur - to varying degrees. As mentioned above, just because we don't believe in particle beam weapons, hush-a-boom explosives, thermite/thermate/thermute, missiles masquerading as pigeons or angels masquerading as pterodactyls does not mean that we automatically believe every utterance of every government official.

I'm sure this is very inconvenient for you because in Truther World if you find one inconsistency you are required to believe the whole fable, but that's just not the way it works.

Personally, I have no difficulty believing that the events leading up to 9/11 represent a massive failing of US intelligence gathering (and/or "intelligence responding to"). Nor do I have any difficulty believing that various folk - from the Executive level on down, have obfuscated to make sure that that particular cluster-fornication is not completely and openly discussed.

Does that mean Dick Cheney personally handed money to a guy at the Abu Nidhal bakery in Sheboygan? Or that Dubya plotted with the Saudi royal family to let their citizens attack our country and kill our people so his buddies could get more oil exploration deals. No, not unless proved.



Well, as Edmund Gwenn commented in Miracle on 34th Street (when he was asked in court for his residence), "That's what we're here to determine." I'm all for investigative journalism and dot connecting. Much of the material is very tenuous but there are little nuggets of truth that come out and other and more competent researchers may be able to put them altogether to finally get the whole story. History is like that. We were still putting together the accurate details of Operation Overlord fifty years after it happened, and it was incredibly well documented and amongst the allies, fairly "open".



Your need to pigeonhole people into Us versus Them is noted. It is misguided and inappropriate, but many people think like that - the world's a Marvel cartoon and the bad guys are on one side with the good guys on another. Unfortunately, the real world doesn't work like that.
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
SpringHallConvert, I note that you responded to Mudcat, but not to me. Why? Are you unable to have a nuanced discussion? This is all too common in Truther-Folk. They just want to be able to label and pigeonhole. If someone tries to bring any shades of gray into the discussion or burst their little bias bubble, they ignore it and go looking for someone else they can squeeze into a preconceived mold.

As I said, it doesn't work like that in the real world. We had an era here (up to the 2008 election) when every truther who came along wasted post after post attacking Bush and Cheney, totally unaware that the majority of the "debunking community" had no love for those two gentlemen and did not support them or their policies. (I can recall one regular who absolutely stunned them when it turned out he had more street cred and protester notches on his gunbelt than the whole bunch of them. Gee, whatever happened to that guy. Lived somewhere in Asia, I believe. Real attractive, too.)

It is possible to be against war, racism, poverty and injustice yet still not see ghosts under the bed. If someone brings me proof of the ghosts under the bed? Well, I'm your boy... but don't let the beams cross! But absent that proof or any actual evidence that someone in the government sat in and planned the events of that day I'm still in the LIHTI (Let It Happen Through Incompetence) camp.
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Old 26th May 2012, 02:54 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by thatsmystory View Post
Nonsense.

Here is an insider's account. He doesn't seem to think the CIA explanation makes any sense:
You are talking to at least two people with inside experience.

Quote:
What was the point of the urgent CIA briefing to Rice on 7/10/01 in which Rich Blee, the chief of Alec Station, warned that "they're coming here." They were already here and the CIA knew it.
Unsupported assertion. In fact, one that directly contradicts your own evidence, unless Rich Blee is somehow separate from "the CIA".
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Old 26th May 2012, 02:57 AM   #240
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SHC missed the obvious implication: Low level employees know the basics how things work. Nothing more is required. He in contrast does not.
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