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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Florida incidents , school incidents , school shootings , shooting incidents

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Old 16th February 2018, 08:55 AM   #361
Ranb
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The AK-15 assault rifle ....Rambo-style ....
Irony yes?
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:19 AM   #362
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Quote:
An arrest report makes it clear that staffers at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High immediately recognized Nikolas Cruz as a “former troubled student” as he emerged Wednesday from a small gold Uber car, carrying a black duffel bag and wearing a black hat. One staffer radioed a co-worker to alert authorities that Cruz was “walking purposefully” toward the school in Parkland.

But within seconds, it was too late. Cruz, according to an arrest report, methodically began firing an AR-15 assault rifle that had been stashed in the bag, methodically mowing down students and adults in the hallways. As chaos ensued, Cruz admitted to homicide detectives, the gunman ditched the gun to “blend into the crowd” fleeing the school.
It seems like everyone knew that Cruz was a ticking time bomb. Including the police, who were very familiar with Cruz and his behavior.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...200373444.html
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:24 AM   #363
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There is footage circulating, filmed by a neighbor, of him shooting off a BB gun in his backyard whilst in his undergarments. It looks suspiciously like he is wearing a MAGA hat, but I can't see well enough to tell. I am having trouble posting a still, but maybe one of our resident tekkies can zoom it in for us and post? Not saying that it has anything to do with the shooting (as of yet), but interesting nonetheless.

ETA for video link https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a3768051.html

Last edited by chrispy; 16th February 2018 at 09:25 AM. Reason: ETA for video
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:24 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Does anyone here believe that lack of a specific type of rapid fire gun is going to keep a killer like this one away from schools where he can kill with near impunity? I don't; it may inhibit some though
I don't. I think a categorical ban on all semi-automatic rifles would probably bring the kill numbers down some but bans of specific models like the AR-15 have never made sense to me even as a purely emotional "do something" reaction.
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:26 AM   #365
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An AK-15 is not an assault rifle. An assault rifle has a selector (this is military terminology) that can be set for single shot, burst (depending on design 3 or 5 shots last I heard/read about it) and auto-fire. The weapon he had was single shot only. And, I suspect we are talking about AR-15. AK is usually the Kalishnikov design (AK-47)
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:43 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I don't. I think a categorical ban on all semi-automatic rifles would probably bring the kill numbers down some but bans of specific models like the AR-15 have never made sense to me even as a purely emotional "do something" reaction.
Why ban rifles, which are statistically almost never used in crimes, and not pistols, which are pretty much always the guns used in crimes, and are easily concealed as well, and account for most gun deaths?
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:49 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Why ban rifles, which are statistically almost never used in crimes, and not pistols, which are pretty much always the guns used in crimes, and are easily concealed as well, and account for most gun deaths?
I was talking specifically about spree killings at schools. I make no representation that banning any type of rifle would have any significant impact on overall homicide rates.
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Old 16th February 2018, 10:05 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Does anyone here believe that lack of a specific type of rapid fire gun is going to keep a killer like this one away from schools where he can kill with near impunity? I don't; it may inhibit some though
That's both a false dichotomy and a straw man all rolled into one.

Are you answering someone in particular that makes your statement relevant?

Keeping deadly kids out of schools is one issue.

Keeping weapons capable of rapid killing en masse out of the hands of kids is another.

Limiting access to weapons capable of rapid killing en masse is another.

At a minimum making it harder for any homicidal person to rack up the body count is a valuable action to take. There is no reason people need 100-bullet clips. And the fact people can modify guns or drive cars into pedestrian crowds is not a valid reason to take no action whatsoever against rapid fire guns.

Prove you have a need for such armament. There's nothing in the second amendment that says people have a right to any arms they want. If that were true people should be able to own SAMs, who cares they might shoot a plane down.

Make it harder, you will at least see fewer deaths.
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Old 16th February 2018, 10:20 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That's both a false dichotomy and a straw man all rolled into one.

Are you answering someone in particular that makes your statement relevant?

Keeping deadly kids out of schools is one issue.

Keeping weapons capable of rapid killing en masse out of the hands of kids is another.

Limiting access to weapons capable of rapid killing en masse is another.

At a minimum making it harder for any homicidal person to rack up the body count is a valuable action to take. There is no reason people need 100-bullet clips. And the fact people can modify guns or drive cars into pedestrian crowds is not a valid reason to take no action whatsoever against rapid fire guns.

Prove you have a need for such armament. There's nothing in the second amendment that says people have a right to any arms they want. If that were true people should be able to own SAMs, who cares they might shoot a plane down.

Make it harder, you will at least see fewer deaths.
The big issue I'm having is we can't even disallow people from owning firearms even if they show clear violent tendencies. Police showed up at this shooters house 39 times over the last few years.... 39 times! But they can't do anything to prevent him from committing mass murder. The gun lobby, and lots of shooters (and I talk to them in RL) are up in arms over the government getting their guns. Theres some story circulating about some guy (maybe) unfairly having his guns taken in Colorado because of a domestic violence charge. That's always brought up anytime the idea of maybe disallowing violent people from owning weapons.

I own an AR-15... if I start spouting off how I want to go kill people with it on the internet then maybe I shouldn't be allowed to have it anymore. I'm cool with that given some form of due process.
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Old 16th February 2018, 10:22 AM   #370
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I was formerly of the opinion that this guy should be hanged, drawn, quartered and disembowelled in a public place and his remains dispersed to a landfill.

However, it is now apparent that this guy is a classic case of Foetal Alcohol Syndrome Disorder, abandoned at birth and adopted by a long-suffering lady who had to call out emergency services a staggering 37 times in seven years, including 'mental illness incident' and 'child/elder domestic abuse'.

This is truly heartbreaking in more ways than one:

Quote:
Conditions can range from mild to severe:

Abnormal facial features (such as a smooth ridge between the nose and upper lip)
Small head size
Shorter-than-average height
Low body weight
Poor coordination
Hyperactive behavior
Difficulty with attention
Poor memory
Difficulty in school (especially with math)
Learning disabilities
Speech and language delays
Intellectual disability or low IQ
Poor reasoning and judgment skills
Sleep and sucking problems as a baby
Vision or hearing problems
Problems with the heart, kidneys, or bones
There are no tests to diagnose FASD, and therefore doctors must rely on physical or mental signs.

Typically what is looked for are abnormal facial features; lower-than-average height, weight, or both; and central nervous system problems.

FASD is a lifelong disability for which there is no cure.
Whether Cruz has FASD or not, it seems clear from his strange facial features that he has a congenital condition.

The question that needs to be asked, is how come nobody did anything about it?
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Old 16th February 2018, 10:34 AM   #371
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Now they are claiming that the Republic of Florida claim was a 4chan hoax.

idiots.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/964479704618151937
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Old 16th February 2018, 10:43 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
...
Keeping deadly kids out of schools is one issue.

Keeping weapons capable of rapid killing en masse out of the hands of kids is another.

Limiting access to weapons capable of rapid killing en masse is another.
...
These are all links in a chain.

Other links further back up the chain that might be addressable include those around which factors take away someone's hope of a better life and makes them angry and frustrated enough to lash out violently or alternatively to want to take their own life. It would be great if people could be prevented from doing these things but better if they could be prevented from wanting to in the first place. This outsider's impression is that the US looks like a very stressful place to live, with wide inequality between rich and poor and low social mobility making it hard to bridge that gap, combined with a culture which highly prizes self-reliance thus making it seem all the more like whatever your standing (or lack) in society, you got what you deserved.

Even as a comfortably middle class type I'm sure I'd find American-style lack of job security, fewer days vacation and no universal health care stressful. It's undeniable that America's culture has made it hugely wealthy and globally successful, but it doesn't appear to be an especially happy place.
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Old 16th February 2018, 10:44 AM   #373
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After looking at his history of behavior and his apparent persona, I would seriously consider autism.
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Old 16th February 2018, 10:49 AM   #374
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Now it's "the FBI's fault". I bet The PDJT jumps on that like a kid on a trampoline.
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Old 16th February 2018, 10:57 AM   #375
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The (possible) average is every 2.6 days for the calendar year of 2018.

We're a tad bit ahead of schedule (and, also, depending on how this plays out)


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/highlin...-live-updates/
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Old 16th February 2018, 10:59 AM   #376
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What almost happened but didn't...


FBI: Hello Nikolas, we saw what you wrote on YouTube. Are you actually planning to shoot people at a school?

Cruz: No, I'm not.

FBI: Ok, bye.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:03 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
What almost happened but didn't...


FBI: Hello Nikolas, we saw what you wrote on YouTube. Are you actually planning to shoot people at a school?

Cruz: No, I'm not.

FBI: Ok, bye.
Not quite.

We now know that the FBI was directly and explicitly warned about Cruz on the phone tip line in January, but the tip was not acted on.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/pr...rkland-florida
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:03 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
After looking at his history of behavior and his apparent persona, I would seriously consider autism.
Looking at his pin head, his weird eyes and ears, he could be the product of incest.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:04 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That's both a false dichotomy and a straw man all rolled into one.

Are you answering someone in particular that makes your statement relevant?
I was answering this post; http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post12184770

But I understand if it is TL/DR for you, again. I think you're trying to create a fuss when calling my question a straw man and/or false dichotomy when it isn't, again.

Last edited by Ranb; 16th February 2018 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:07 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
The (possible) average is every 2.6 days for the calendar year of 2018.

We're a tad bit ahead of schedule (and, also, depending on how this plays out)


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/highlin...-live-updates/
This is in my neck of the woods. No victims, may just turn out to be false alarm or shots fired only. Someone taken to the hospital but the fire department says wasn't a gunshot victim.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:12 AM   #381
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Good afternoon alfaniner
Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Now it's "the FBI's fault". I bet The PDJT jumps on that like a kid on a trampoline.
Russian bots are already stoking both sides of the gun control issue. Certainly they will try to place doubt on the FBI and the way they handled this.
I'm guessing the FBI acted properly here.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:14 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I was talking specifically about spree killings at schools. I make no representation that banning any type of rifle would have any significant impact on overall homicide rates.
Sure, but one could conduct a school spree killing even easier with a Glock pistol.

The only reason these nutters use the AR-15 is because it's popular and it's constantly in the media, and it looks like an M-16.

A Glock makes much more sense, with it's 33 round magazines and concealability.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:16 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Now it's "the FBI's fault". I bet The PDJT jumps on that like a kid on a trampoline.
He probably should, because the FBI bears some fault here.

They made no effort to check out a detailed January tip line report on Cruz.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:17 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Would you then argue that political terrorists captured in the course of committing mass murder should be treated as insane, because they "do this kind of thing"?
I dont understand the question ... “treated as unsafe” can mean too many different things
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:19 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I was answering this post; http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post12184770

[unnecessary snark snipped]
Here's the bit you quoted and your reply. Are you suggesting people should research the part of a post you didn't quote or imagine you meant something other than what you wrote?
Originally Posted by Checkmite
... This guy didn't build special "high capacity mags" or other mods to make a normally low-powered weapon more lethal; the thing stock off the shelf is mass-murder in a box.
Originally Posted by RanB
Does anyone here believe that lack of a specific type of rapid fire gun is going to keep a killer like this one away from schools where he can kill with near impunity? I don't; it may inhibit some though
My reply holds.

Your wording, not mine: "is going to keep a killer like this one away from schools."

Perhaps you'd like to reword your reply?
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:20 AM   #386
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The PDJT's going to Florida, ostensibly to meet with some involved in the incident. I would bet that he only talks to and (rightfully) praises the first responders, but does not talk directly to any of the parents or families.

I for one would like to see him confronted directly for a change.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:20 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Not quite.

We now know that the FBI was directly and explicitly warned about Cruz on the phone tip line in January, but the tip was not acted on.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/pr...rkland-florida
I know that. My point was that the FBI would not have been able to stop this unless they permanently parked themselves on Cruz's doorstep. A quick comment on YouTube would not result in him being incarcerated or having his gun confiscated. They would need to find clear evidence showing that he was really going to do it.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:21 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by JPK View Post
Good afternoon alfaniner
Russian bots are already stoking both sides of the gun control issue. Certainly they will try to place doubt on the FBI and the way they handled this.
I'm guessing the FBI acted properly here.
Or the FBI didn't and the bots are running with that mistake the FBI made.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:23 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I know that. My point was that the FBI would not have been able to stop this unless they permanently parked themselves on Cruz's doorstep. A quick comment on YouTube would not result in him being incarcerated or having his gun confiscated. They would need to find clear evidence showing that he was really going to do it.
There's new news, someone more specifically alerted the FBI in Jan, beyond the Youtube complaint.

The shooter news is sorting itself out in between Mueller's new indictment announcement that was just posted.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:42 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I know that. My point was that the FBI would not have been able to stop this unless they permanently parked themselves on Cruz's doorstep. A quick comment on YouTube would not result in him being incarcerated or having his gun confiscated. They would need to find clear evidence showing that he was really going to do it.
Sure the Youtube post might be dismissed, but I bet they could have tracked Cruz down then if they wanted to, and at least had it on record.

I bet one dollar that if they acted on the phone tip, as they should have, Cruz doesn't take kindly to the FBI at his doorstep asking pointed questions, and he gets arrested or worse.
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Old 16th February 2018, 12:36 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
But what problems? You've described the end point, how does a 19 year old get to the point where he has so many problems he has to solve them all at once at many feet per second?

This man is 19 and has decided that the biggest impact he can make on the world is to end as many lives as possible, solving, as you say, all his problems John Wayne style. My question is why?

What does it say about his view of his prospects for the rest of his life in the land of the free and the home of the brave where anyone can grow up to be president if he thought his best option was to go out in blaze of glory at the age of 19?
Both parents dead and other mental problems may have had a lot to do with it. Systems here seem to be unable to properly deal with that kind and level of situation.
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Old 16th February 2018, 12:53 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This is in my neck of the woods. No victims, may just turn out to be false alarm or shots fired only. Someone taken to the hospital but the fire department says wasn't a gunshot victim.
There was also an arrest in Everett a few days ago of a guy who was apparently planning to shoot up his high school. Happened just before the Florida event, I think.
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Old 16th February 2018, 01:10 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Both parents dead and other mental problems may have had a lot to do with it. Systems here seem to be unable to properly deal with that kind and level of situation.
They'd manage a hell of a lot easier if people weren't allowed guns below the age at which they're allowed to buy a beer, though, wouldn't you say?
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Old 16th February 2018, 02:08 PM   #394
Ranb
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Perhaps you'd like to reword your reply?
Of course not. Killers enter schools with weapons other than guns.
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Old 16th February 2018, 02:18 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by JPK View Post
Good afternoon alfaniner
Russian bots are already stoking both sides of the gun control issue. Certainly they will try to place doubt on the FBI and the way they handled this.
I'm guessing the FBI acted properly here.
I'm guessing "The FBI" isn't a hive mind that acts all together.

From what I'm reading, low level FBI staff probably treated the calls about Cruz less seriously than they ought to have treated them. That isn't "The FBI".

The investigation will be all about whether the system in place was adequate, whether the personnel are adequately trained, and whether they acted in accordance with training/instruction/policy. Sometimes, people just screw up, and it isn't the fault of the organization they are paid by. Other times, the people who have to make the front line decisions don't have the training or resources to do the job correctly. That will all have to be looked at.

Meanwhile, Russia is finding one more opportunity to sow discord.
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Old 16th February 2018, 02:22 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Of course not. Killers enter schools with weapons other than guns.
You're about to post up the comparative death totals, aren't you, so that we can compare the carnage of guns and other weapons?
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Old 16th February 2018, 02:27 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
Can you explain "Pure Castilian Blood" ... I googled it but just got a lot of washing soap ads.

Briefly, the original Castillians were Visigoths..Germans who moved into Spain after the collapse of the Roman Empire, took over, and formed the new Aristoracy...It's a long involved story.
Let's just say that Charleton Heston as El Cid in the movie was pretty damn accurate at to how The Cid probably looked.
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Old 16th February 2018, 02:27 PM   #398
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I'm actually involved in a situation at the moment with a family member which has similarities to where this was on February 13, but even in the UK which has better (though far from perfect) systems for helping people with mental health issues it is difficult. It takes time and professional input to discern between 'blowing off steam' and 'legitimate threat' sufficiently for official action to be taken, it's a significant issue in my life at the moment but I can appreciate why it is so. However, I can't deny that I am pleased that I don't have to worry that this person might their hands on a firearm.
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Old 16th February 2018, 02:29 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I know that. My point was that the FBI would not have been able to stop this unless they permanently parked themselves on Cruz's doorstep. A quick comment on YouTube would not result in him being incarcerated or having his gun confiscated. They would need to find clear evidence showing that he was really going to do it.
And how many such tips does the FBI get a month? Quite a few, I bet.
And, as you point out, you can't arrest a guy or confiscate his properry until he actually does something illegal ...
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Old 16th February 2018, 02:31 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
An AK-15 is not an assault rifle. An assault rifle has a selector (this is military terminology) that can be set for single shot, burst (depending on design 3 or 5 shots last I heard/read about it) and auto-fire. The weapon he had was single shot only. And, I suspect we are talking about AR-15. AK is usually the Kalishnikov design (AK-47)
I don't think there is any such thing as an AK 15. Probaly a mistake,the individual meant AR 15.
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