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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Florida incidents , school incidents , school shootings , shooting incidents

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Old 18th February 2018, 10:00 PM   #641
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
It does feel different this time, but I don't think Republicans can be shamed into passing legislation. Sociopaths aren't persuaded with shame. Maybe, however, this movement will effect the 2018 elections so that Republicans lose power and Democrats can get some legislations passed.
Why is it so inconceivable that they legitimately view firearm ownership as a right and have fundamental different ideas from you on safety?
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Old 18th February 2018, 10:05 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
I've seen this sentiment a couple times in this thread now. Is there any evidence that if guns were illegal, that illegal gun dealers would vet the people they sell to? Drugs are illegal now, and drug dealers pretty much sell to anyone who has the cash, no questions asked. Would that be different w/ guns?
Have you ever tried to score 1000 dollars worth of drugs? Neither have I, but like most people who grew up in the 70s, I know people who have. As best I can tell, they ask plenty of questions. And even the penny ante dealers who manage to get hold of a pound and chop it into lids were pretty darned cautious.

So, yeah, it would be different with guns. The little guys who are drug dealers who can score you a hit are the little guys, and their product is gone quickly. Guns? Not so much. The gun dealer knows that his product is going to be around a long time and, unlike with drugs, the nature of his product is that its use draws an awful lot of attention.

And even if it "only" worked as well with guns as it did with drugs, it would be a great thing. There are a lot more stoners in Colorado than there used to be, because it's easier to get the stuff. If we could cut the number of mass shootings by only a small percentage, count me in.
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Old 18th February 2018, 10:35 PM   #643
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Why is it so inconceivable that they legitimately view firearm ownership as a right and have fundamental different ideas from you on safety?
Not inconceivable at all, it is a fact, some people really do think that.
The inconceivable bit is why they think that, it makes no sense at all, to me at least.
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Old 18th February 2018, 10:37 PM   #644
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I saw some of the organizers of March for Our Lives on Fox News tonight. I've got a good feeling about them. What they say they're going to do is to brand politicians who take NRA money. Interesting approach. We'll see what they can do.

They were followed by Rush Limbaugh. The kids are naïve, and guns aren't the problem, and ......all the same stuff. I think this time is different. I don't know.
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
It does feel different this time, but I don't think Republicans can be shamed into passing legislation. Sociopaths aren't persuaded with shame. Maybe, however, this movement will effect the 2018 elections so that Republicans lose power and Democrats can get some legislations passed.
I sincerely hope this time is different, it feels that way to me too.

These kids are obviously passionate about the issue, and rightly so. They have done their research and know exactly who the NRA backed people in Congress are. And they have good organizers for the planned marches backing them.

Many of them will be 18 years old by Nov and will vote against those politicians who think "guns are not the problem". These kids have personally seen the dead and injured bodies of their friends. Killed by guns. They will never forget that, and no pro-gun rhetoric will erase those memories.
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Old 18th February 2018, 10:46 PM   #645
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Why is it so inconceivable that they legitimately view firearm ownership as a right and have fundamental different ideas from you on safety?
Why is it so inconceivable that these kids legitimately view firearms as a threat to their lives (their friends are DEAD and they saw them being KILLED by a firearm) and they want the RIGHT to LIVE and have fundamental different ideas from you on safety?
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Old 18th February 2018, 10:53 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
Many of them will be 18 years old by Nov and will vote against those politicians who think "guns are not the problem".
Not a chance. Politicians know that statistically none of them are going to vote. Young people don't vote, ergo they are wasted political capital. The kids will march, they'll protests, they'll organize walkouts and retweet tweets and share memes and they'll say they'll vote but history has taught us that come Nov... they won't. They'll barely vote in the Presidential election, even less in the midterm, and on the state and local level they will be statistically zero.
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Old 18th February 2018, 10:56 PM   #647
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
If guns are the issue, why didn't we have this problem 40 years ago? Guns were just as available then.
Guns were the same back then but they weren't used to kill classmates.
The gun of choice now appears to be the AR15.
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Old 18th February 2018, 11:06 PM   #648
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Not a chance. Politicians know that statistically none of them are going to vote. Young people don't vote, ergo they are wasted political capital. The kids will march, they'll protests, they'll organize walkouts and retweet tweets and share memes and they'll say they'll vote but history has taught us that come Nov... they won't. They'll barely vote in the Presidential election, even less in the midterm, and on the state and local level they will be statistically zero.
They will vote. This is a life or death issue. Literally.
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Old 18th February 2018, 11:08 PM   #649
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
Why is it so inconceivable that these kids legitimately view firearms as a threat to their lives (their friends are DEAD and they saw them being KILLED by a firearm) and they want the RIGHT to LIVE and have fundamental different ideas from you on safety?
It is completely conceivable to me. I take their reasons at face value and don't imply they have mental illness, are bribed, or have some secret motive.
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Old 18th February 2018, 11:11 PM   #650
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
They will vote. This is a life or death issue. Literally.
Errrrr okay. So why this time and not the last 20 school shootings? We had spree killings right before the last election (and pretty much every election since we're pretty much always having spree killings) and it didn't matter.

Your "this feels different this time" argument doesn't cut it

We've a Republican majority government right now and an entire year before even the Midterms. This will pass and be old news by the time the election rolls around.
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Old 18th February 2018, 11:21 PM   #651
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
I've seen this sentiment a couple times in this thread now. Is there any evidence that if guns were illegal, that illegal gun dealers would vet the people they sell to? Drugs are illegal now, and drug dealers pretty much sell to anyone who has the cash, no questions asked. Would that be different w/ guns?
By looking at the rest of the western world?
Not to mention, if it becomes harder to own a gun, and illegal in many cases then when the police got hints about the last shooter they could have used his possession of a gun as a reason to arrest him, take away the weapons and maybe get him professional help.
Sure, it infringes on his liberty, but it would have prevented him using his liberty to murder many others.
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Old 18th February 2018, 11:34 PM   #652
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
We've a Republican majority government right now and an entire year before even the Midterms. This will pass and be old news by the time the election rolls around.
That's my guess. Then again maybe one of the spree killings the month before the midterms will be nasty enough to move the needle. Of course that can move the needle with the anti-gun control voters as well.
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Old 18th February 2018, 11:35 PM   #653
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
The gun of choice now appears to be the AR15.
Not really.

AR-15 are used in high profile mass killings, but in raw numbers cheap handgns are still the biggest issue.

In 2011 (the last year the FBI broke it down by weapon type or at least the most recent I could find) of the 8,583 firearm deaths in America only 323 were committed by "rifles." Both shotguns (356) and by far, far handguns (6,220) outnumbered them. (97 were listed as other/not specified if anyone is wondering where the gap came from.)

But we also in the same year had 1,694 killed with knives, 496 with blunt objects, 728 just literally beat to death with no weapons involved at all, and the list goes on.

Take any one random class of weapon away and America's murder rate is still gonna be double that of any comparable country. Hell in most cases each category is more than other countries have total murders.
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Old 18th February 2018, 11:40 PM   #654
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Errrrr okay. So why this time and not the last 20 school shootings? We had spree killings right before the last election (and pretty much every election since we're pretty much always having spree killings) and it didn't matter.

Your "this feels different this time" argument doesn't cut it

We've a Republican majority government right now and an entire year before even the Midterms. This will pass and be old news by the time the election rolls around.
Rosa Parks----The Civil Rights Movement.

Vietnam War----student protests.

Every change has a "first time". It has to start somewhere, some time.

Why not now?
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Old 19th February 2018, 12:11 AM   #655
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The AR 15 is iconic as the weapon of the Good Guys, just like the AK-47 is the go-to Bad Guy gun: there would be much less pushback to banning semi-automatic versions of the Kalashnikov because of its image.
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Old 19th February 2018, 12:27 AM   #656
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Not a chance. Politicians know that statistically none of them are going to vote. Young people don't vote, ergo they are wasted political capital. The kids will march, they'll protests, they'll organize walkouts and retweet tweets and share memes and they'll say they'll vote but history has taught us that come Nov... they won't. They'll barely vote in the Presidential election, even less in the midterm, and on the state and local level they will be statistically zero.
And even if they do the american system of tallying votes ensures that most of their votes will be worthless.
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Old 19th February 2018, 12:56 AM   #657
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
Why is it so inconceivable that these kids legitimately view firearms as a threat to their lives (their friends are DEAD and they saw them being KILLED by a firearm) and they want the RIGHT to LIVE and have fundamental different ideas from you on safety?

That would be like hiding all the forks because you eat too much cake. Instead of, you know, actually dealing with the cake.

This "blame the guns" stuff is a nonsensical knee jerk reaction by people who have no clue exactly how these tragic situations play out.
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Old 19th February 2018, 01:01 AM   #658
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
That would be like hiding all the forks because you eat too much cake. Instead of, you know, actually dealing with the cake.

This "blame the guns" stuff is a nonsensical knee jerk reaction by people who have no clue exactly how these tragic situations play out.
Tosh, tosh and bollocks. A country awash with freely available guns but the same level of mental health issues as elsewhere on the planet has school shootings on a weekly basis, and massacres with terrible regularity.........and no other country does. The only difference is guns. How many people would have died if this loser in California didn't have access to a gun?

Fingers-in-the-ears "don't blame the guns" nonsense is contemptible and nauseating. This is the very attitude which enabled the killing of 17 kids last week.
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Old 19th February 2018, 01:05 AM   #659
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
That would be like hiding all the forks because you eat too much cake. Instead of, you know, actually dealing with the cake.

This "blame the guns" stuff is a nonsensical knee jerk reaction by people who have no clue exactly how these tragic situations play out.
Please elaborate on this part. What information about how these situations play out do you feel has been missing from the discussion?
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Old 19th February 2018, 01:10 AM   #660
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MikeG is correct. If access to guns was harder, things like this would happen less often. The shooting happened because a white supremacist terrorist was allowed to buy a gun and all the ammo. I highly doubt he would have tried the same thing armed with only a knife, and even if he did, the casualties would have been low, if any at all. Guns make it very easy to kill while staying relatively safe from the victim's retaliation.
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Old 19th February 2018, 01:11 AM   #661
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
Please elaborate on this part. What information about how these situations play out do you feel has been missing from the discussion?
If the shooter didn't have access to guns, he would have simply pushed the Y button and switched to shuriken and killing just as many people........
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Old 19th February 2018, 01:26 AM   #662
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Why are mass shootings not committed with full-auto weapons?
Because most are banned and the ones who have been grandfathered in are horrendously expensive.
The same thing would work for semi-automatics.
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Old 19th February 2018, 01:27 AM   #663
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Maybe a dispensation for the event itself but the team can't own or use pistols in the UK.If the want to train they have to do it abroad.


This. The shooting events took place on Ministry of Defence land, not at a civilian firing range.
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Old 19th February 2018, 01:52 AM   #664
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I get that it can look that way when seeing the online discussions, but the reality is that many Americans want to see some additional gun control but do not want anything like a total ban on private gun ownership. Details vary enormously, but an awful lot of us could be broadly called moderate on the issue.
Yeah there is plenty of scope for improving the gun regulations in the US so that mass shooters find it lots harder to tool up, while at the same time keeping the "right to bear arms" that is enshrined in the constitution.

There's the argument that's trotted out that goes that as the constitution says "right to bear arms" then any restriction of what those arms are is unconstitutional and must be stopped. Which is obviously hogwash because the US already restricts some arms from private ownership. You can't buy full automatics everywhere for example.

That line could be extended to cover semi-automatics too, restrictions on magazine size could be added restrictions on calibre etc etc.

While there isn't going to be big change in the US until there's enough political will to change the 2nd amendment such that owning guns is a privilege and not a right, there is plenty of scope to introduce limits on some of the guns or at the very least have proper debate and discussion on the topic.

Gun control is like lots of politics in the US (at least from the outside looking in) hyper partisan. Moderates get drowned out by extremists on both sides. Hyperbole is the stock in trade and who can shout the loudest, call their opponents the worst names, dredge up irrelevant scandal about the opponents, spend the most money and generate the most media coverage tends to win.
When politicians care more about getting elected than they do about serving the people that elected them, when the people donating lots of money to their coffers so they can fund all of the hyper partisan rabid ******** that passes for political discourse these days get much more preferential treatment than Joe the plumber, then something is broken somewhere.
All this kind of politics serves to do is maintain the status quo. That's not healthy.

I'm not an American. It looks like a great place for the most part. Lots of things about America fascinate me and boggle my mind at the same time.

I really hope that this time is different. Mass shootings are avoidable, they ought to be shocking headline news because they happen so rarely. Whichever way you slice it, easy access to guns is one of the major contributing reasons for the frequency and severity of mass shootings in the US. As well as one of the simpler things to fix.
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Old 19th February 2018, 02:13 AM   #665
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
I don't think gun ban will really prevent acts like this. It would help with general crime, and US indeed should start to do something. IMHO it should start with registration and full responsibility of the holder.
But someone who has mind set on killing will find another way. Truck killing was popularized lately, and it can be just as lethal as guns.
Also there were serious problem with this kid's upbringing. Isn't there something like social help ? Didn't he face any psychological evaluation ? Expelling from school might not be the best, though school has limited options. Something should have followed though. And it didn't.

"Truck killing was popularised lately"? Are you talking about Islamic terrorists who used trucks (i.e. a "Lorry") to drive that into crowds of people in a busy street in Germany, France, UK...? Is that what you are talking about? Because that has not one iota to do with spree shootings in the USA, does it!

So far, with all the various mass shooting incidents in US Schools, in US workplaces, or in other public places in the USA where there have been multiple people shot, and indeed all the thousands of other shooting incidents where lesser numbers of individuals have been killed or injured, I do not recall any of those attackers or would-be attackers trying to use a truck instead?

How many ex-students with a grudge against their schools, or ex-employees with a grudge against their employers company, have tried to attack the school or company or other organisation in the USA with a "truck"?

If it comes to that - how many of those US cases involved the attacker trying to attack all those people with a knife, or a baseball bat, or some other improvised weapon? How many tried to blow-up the school, college, company buildings, peoples homes etc. with a bomb?

No, all of that is just a dishonest attempt by gun enthusiasts to move the conversation off guns. The plain fact of the matter is that guns are a major lethal problem in the USA. And specifically the problem is that US laws allow ordinary members of the public to keep numerous high-power guns and masses of bullets in their private homes ... and some states even allow those people to openly carry those loaded guns around the shops and bars etc. That's just asking for vast numbers of people to be shot dead.

No. The US needs to change it's gun laws to stop people owning loaded guns in their home. That's the problem. If that had been done years ago then those kids in the Florida school would all still be happily enjoying their lives now. But instead they are now all dead ... and they are not coming back to life, you cannot change that now ... it's not a video game, people really are being shot dead on US streets by people who have a hobby interest in playing with loaded guns.
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Old 19th February 2018, 02:18 AM   #666
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Maybe a dispensation for the event itself but the team can't own or use pistols in the UK.If the want to train they have to do it abroad.
Still no evidence, but at least you have dropped the suggestion the entire British Olympic team has to train abroad.
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Old 19th February 2018, 02:22 AM   #667
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
Yeah there is plenty of scope for improving the gun regulations in the US so that mass shooters find it lots harder to tool up, while at the same time keeping the "right to bear arms" that is enshrined in the constitution.

.....
If something similar to the Texan LTC permit requirement was rolled out across the entire country, that would work. It would mean there is a high chance only suitable people can have a gun (non criminals, no mental health issues etc).

But, all those not suitable would need to have their guns removed from them and supply restricted so they would really struggle to get a gun.

Only then would the USA be in the same position as the rest of the western world, which has proved keeping guns only to suitable people works.

The chances of that happening are nil.
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Old 19th February 2018, 02:58 AM   #668
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Mike, Mike don't you know unless you get down to the manufacturer, model, series and production run of a particular gun you can't say anything meaningful about gun control.

There is simply no way you can write legislation that would control gun ownership as a Mk 3 version 12 series 8a made by Bob Smith on Friday 13th June 2012 can be converted to a non fully automatic bump loading grenade launcher by anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of steel casting, gun powder production and a working foundry?
13th June 2012 was a Wednesday, which shows the level of research which goes into gun control advocates' arguments, and thereby invalidates any and every other argument raised by them.
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Old 19th February 2018, 03:46 AM   #669
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Don't miss this special offer folks.
There is a Presidents’ Day sale on bump stocks, the device the Las Vegas shooter put on his rifles. Slide Fire Solutions, a bump stocks manufacturer, is offering 10% off with the coupon code MAGA.
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Old 19th February 2018, 06:19 AM   #670
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Still no evidence, but at least you have dropped the suggestion the entire British Olympic team has to train abroad.
It doesn't seem to be particularly easy to find details on how pistol shooting events are dealt with but I did find this NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/sp...na-geikie.html

Special exemptions had to be given for international events like the Commonwealth games and Olympics. In the Manchester 2002 Commonwealth games the competitors had to be locked in at the shooting range and return their pistols to officials before the venue was unlocked. In the run up to London 2012 it seems the sense of national prestige was sufficient for political will to go further and issue exemptions for British competitors to practice at specified locations. So it does appear that British Olympic pistol shooters do usually have to train overseas.
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Old 19th February 2018, 07:49 AM   #671
Dr.Sid
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
No. The US needs to change it's gun laws to stop people owning loaded guns in their home. That's the problem. If that had been done years ago then those kids in the Florida school would all still be happily enjoying their lives now. But instead they are now all dead ... and they are not coming back to life, you cannot change that now ... it's not a video game, people really are being shot dead on US streets by people who have a hobby interest in playing with loaded guns.
You see ? And some say nobody wants to ban guns completely. Well there is one guy right here.

Both crowds have to achieve compromise. This is not the right path to it. Like putting all gun owner into bag labeled 'people who have a hobby interest in playing with loaded guns'.

Something should be done for sure. But so far only I see is two crowds who just wont listen.
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Old 19th February 2018, 07:57 AM   #672
Craig B
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
You see ? And some say nobody wants to ban guns completely. Well there is one guy right here.

Both crowds have to achieve compromise. This is not the right path to it. Like putting all gun owner into bag labeled 'people who have a hobby interest in playing with loaded guns'.

Something should be done for sure. But so far only I see is two crowds who just wont listen.
But IanS merely suggested
The US needs to change it's gun laws to stop people owning loaded guns in their home. That's the problem.
How is that a no compromise complete ban on guns?
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Old 19th February 2018, 08:14 AM   #673
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
You see ? And some say nobody wants to ban guns completely. Well there is one guy right here.

Both crowds have to achieve compromise. This is not the right path to it. Like putting all gun owner into bag labeled 'people who have a hobby interest in playing with loaded guns'.

Something should be done for sure. But so far only I see is two crowds who just wont listen.
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
But IanS merely suggested
The US needs to change it's gun laws to stop people owning loaded guns in their home. That's the problem.
How is that a no compromise complete ban on guns?
I am going to give Dr.Sid a legitimate target. I would like to ban guns completely! All guns! Everywhere! Including military and police guns of all sizes. And Bombs. And landmines. And missiles, nuclear and otherwise. Any weapon that is initialized by, or results in, an explosion. The world would be a much better and safer place.
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Old 19th February 2018, 08:48 AM   #674
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
The gun of choice now appears to be the AR15.
AR-15 went on sale in the mid 1960's.
Patent expired in 1977 and other mfgs began copying and selling.

Early AR's are now Curio & Relic eligible...about 10,000 AR-15 serial numbers are now C&R eligible.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what...relic-firearms

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/ther...state-commerce

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-...ckground-check
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Old 19th February 2018, 09:02 AM   #675
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Quote:
Including military and police guns of all sizes.
Right. Good luck. If you are serious about wanting to ban guns, those are the people -along with various security forces- you have to start with, and that will never happen.

Those who perceive a genuine need to protect themselves or others will always believe the laws against such items shouldn't apply to them, and that crack in the sidewalk will inevitably allow a steady stream of weapons of one kind or another to boil out into the world.

I sincerely believe the world would be safer today if more people had simply had to endure my father's gun safety tutoring. Sadly, his audience was very limited, and I often see people who should know better mishandling guns in ways that were drilled out of me on the very first day.
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:01 AM   #676
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Right. Good luck. If you are serious about wanting to ban guns, those are the people -along with various security forces- you have to start with, and that will never happen.

Those who perceive a genuine need to protect themselves or others will always believe the laws against such items shouldn't apply to them, and that crack in the sidewalk will inevitably allow a steady stream of weapons of one kind or another to boil out into the world.

I sincerely believe the world would be safer today if more people had simply had to endure my father's gun safety tutoring. Sadly, his audience was very limited, and I often see people who should know better mishandling guns in ways that were drilled out of me on the very first day.
I am dead serious about about wanting to ban all guns. The fact that it will never happen, regardless of who it is started with, does not change that.
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:27 AM   #677
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I am dead serious about about wanting to ban all guns. The fact that it will never happen, regardless of who it is started with, does not change that.
Let's have a test case.

Let's remove all the guns from all the residents of Chicago.

Ban firearms in Chicago, with serious jail time for possession, have a one year amnesty, and then start confiscating.

See how it goes.

I would think at least one city, or even state, will be willing to be the test case.
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:28 AM   #678
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I am dead serious about about wanting to ban all guns. The fact that it will never happen, regardless of who it is started with, does not change that.

Sure. I understand. But...banning all guns won't stop people from making them, and as long as that happens someone will genuinely believe they need to arm themselves to protect themselves or high value targets.

I once had a friend who could make "zip guns" from old lamps or discarded pieces of pipe. It's one thing to ban them -make them illegal- it's another to actually prevent their manufacture.

Even if we accomplish the first, the second will always be a looming threat, and that thread will keep us wanting to make exceptions to the bans...while we're busy chasing our tails, stories of murder by guns will still be in the news.

But I do agree there would be fewer such tales, and that might give us more room to fix the problems with society that are the underlying cause of these events in the first place.

The guns are a symptom; the desire to murder each other is the cause. How do we fix that?

Further, how we do we prevent those who want to murder us in our sleep from doing that while we fix it?

"Live and let live" only works if everyone agrees -otherwise, one nut who disagrees can take out a whole population.
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:31 AM   #679
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Sure. It would help. But don't expect you will never ever see another mass killing. Some people seem to think 'it's guns, period' .. it's not just guns. Guns are tools, and readily available tool can allow for hot-headed action. But guns are not the reason for the action. We have to ask 'why the kid did it'. Guns are just answer for 'how could he do it'.

Just about everything possible is wrong with the thinking/"logic" of the above post. Firstly - the sort of mass murder school shooting that just occurred in Florida, and which has happened so many times previously in the US, is afaik rarely if even "a hot headed action" ... on the contrary, afaik in such cases the killers typically planned their attacks for months before they carried it out ... quite often it seems they had told other people (inc. making posts on the net) months before the killing itself. So these are not normally just a spur of the moment piece of what you just called "hot headed action".

Second - in other countries like the UK (which is what you were just replying about), we are not confident that more spree killing like Hungerford or Dunblane could never again happen in the future ... it could happen, and we all know that. But since the UK gun laws (and also EU gun laws?) are now so much more robust, it is least very much harder for anyone who intends to do anything like that … it's now very much more of a deterrent.

Third – guns are not “just tools”, they are specifically designed and now highly developed to be lethal weapons for the purpose of killing as many people as quickly as possible. That's a very big difference between an AR15 or a high-power advanced-tech handgun compared to things like a kitchen knife!



Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Anyway .. any kind of gun control would take decades to really show any effect .. and at the moment US doesn't seem to be will to change anything. So ..

It would not take decades. The effect would be almost immediate if the US introduced laws like we have in the UK or the rest of Europe (afaik) with a ban on private citizens keeping loaded guns in their homes. But even if it did take some years before it resulted in a big reduction in the number of public shooting cases, that would be a fantastic change for the better for the lives of everyone in the US.
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:34 AM   #680
Dr.Sid
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
But IanS merely suggested
The US needs to change it's gun laws to stop people owning loaded guns in their home. That's the problem.
How is that a no compromise complete ban on guns?
Well gun you can't load is kinda useless.
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