ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Economics, Business and Finance
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 13th May 2019, 02:59 PM   #3721
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,899
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
But that's the entire flaw in your argument. You say you can afford anything in a no money system but limited resources and the laws of supply and demand is where you fall short.

If a Ferrari is free, most everyone will want one but there aren't enough to supply everyone with one. People will have to go without, just as they do now.

Not everyone in the world can eat filet mignon. There isn't enough for everyone in the world. Some people need to eat hamburger and hot dogs.

This limited supply principle applies to most things that are in demand.
If every one wants a Ferrari we will construct Ferrari for every one, what's the problem? Pollution maybe.

Last edited by Gaetan; 13th May 2019 at 03:00 PM.
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 03:39 PM   #3722
bytewizard
Master Poster
 
bytewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: In the woods
Posts: 2,006
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If every one wants a Ferrari we will construct Ferrari for every one, what's the problem? Pollution maybe.
Once again, the mysterious "WE"! Gaetan, who is this "WE"? Is it you? Do you work in a Ferrari plant? If so, will you continue to work there for no pay?
bytewizard is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 06:06 PM   #3723
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Springwood, NJ
Posts: 29,694
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
In the no money system you can afford anything while in the money system you can afford only what you can buy. Also the difference is in the obligation, in the money system you must pay what you buy while in the no money you don't have to.
So I can have all the Ferraris I want because I'll be able to afford any number of them just like I'll have all the mansions and yachts I want.

When can you get those to me?
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 09:14 PM   #3724
curious cat
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
So I can have all the Ferraris I want because I'll be able to afford any number of them just like I'll have all the mansions and yachts I want.

When can you get those to me?
As soon as the money is abolished, you silly...
curious cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 12:40 AM   #3725
curious cat
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If every one wants a Ferrari we will construct Ferrari for every one, what's the problem? Pollution maybe.
O.K., these people make it too easy for you. Now, what are you going to do about my dream island in the Caribbeans?
curious cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 12:43 AM   #3726
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 7,920
What people want is determined by what they believe is desiderable, not by what they need.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isnít.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 10:40 AM   #3727
Joecool
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,469
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If every one wants a Ferrari we will construct Ferrari for every one, what's the problem? Pollution maybe.
Gaetan, you don't get it. It's not possible to construct a Ferrari for everyone who wants one because they can now "afford it".

It's also not possible to feed the world Alaskan King crab legs because there isn't enough to supply everyone who can now afford it.

You're also ignoring the fact that work is involved in constructing a Ferrari or catching Alaskan King crabs. Your no money world has no requirement to work. Production will go down, not up.

You are fantasizing, which would be fine if you kept it to yourself.
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 11:57 AM   #3728
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,996
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
In the no money system you can afford anything while in the money system you can afford only what you can buy. Also the difference is in the obligation, in the money system you must pay what you buy while in the no money you don't have to.
At what point will a Unicorn make an appearance in your "theory?"

Seriously! you're only a Unicorn, a Midget and a used car salesman away from having the perfect economic model.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 12:32 PM   #3729
bytewizard
Master Poster
 
bytewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: In the woods
Posts: 2,006
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
At what point will a Unicorn make an appearance in your "theory?"

Seriously! you're only a Unicorn, a Midget and a used car salesman away from having the perfect economic model.
You left out the cymbal playing monkey.
bytewizard is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 01:12 PM   #3730
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,899
Originally Posted by curious cat View Post
O.K., these people make it too easy for you. Now, what are you going to do about my dream island in the Caribbeans?
With or without a casino?
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 02:26 PM   #3731
curious cat
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
With or without a casino?
I can see some spark of intelligence here . But the question is rather redundant. In the world without money there would be no casinos, right?
curious cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th May 2019, 04:17 PM   #3732
Leftus
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,080
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If every one wants a Ferrari we will construct Ferrari for every one, what's the problem? Pollution maybe.
Once everyone who knows how to build a Ferrari owns a Ferrari, and has no need to build any more. They have no incentive to build past what they need or want.

You know that incentive. Because you, yourself, are working for money despite you having instructions from your god to not take money.
Leftus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th May 2019, 02:40 AM   #3733
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,899
Originally Posted by curious cat View Post
I can see some spark of intelligence here . But the question is rather redundant. In the world without money there would be no casinos, right?
Why are you against the pleasure to play, in casinos we will distribute fiction money to people.
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th May 2019, 04:06 AM   #3734
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 18,473
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Why are you against the pleasure to play, in casinos we will distribute fiction money to people.
In your messed up world, what possible motivation is there to enter a casino? There would be nothing to win. Any possible prize would be pointless because one could have it for free anyway.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th May 2019, 04:07 AM   #3735
curious cat
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Why are you against the pleasure to play, in casinos we will distribute fiction money to people.
I am getting it! That's something I am used to from the socialist system - so similar to your money-free society. The government pretended paying us and we pretended we worked. Like a clockwork! Just can't understand why it collapsed....
curious cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th May 2019, 04:59 AM   #3736
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Springwood, NJ
Posts: 29,694
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Why are you against the pleasure to play, in casinos we will distribute fiction money to people.
Even the gods you invented disagree with you. That's funnier than when you post links to articles that disagree with you.
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th May 2019, 10:41 AM   #3737
Joecool
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,469
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Why are you against the pleasure to play, in casinos we will distribute fiction money to people.
And in a no money world, there will be fictional food and fictional supplies?

And fictional work performed?
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th May 2019, 10:43 AM   #3738
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Springwood, NJ
Posts: 29,694
All based on Gaetan's misinterpretation of his fictional god's words.
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th May 2019, 05:03 PM   #3739
Joecool
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,469
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Why are you against the pleasure to play, in casinos we will distribute fiction money to people.
What would be the point of people working to run a casino to distribute fictional money? Don't you need all hands on deck to build more Ferraris since a lot more people will demand one if they are "free"?
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th May 2019, 01:19 PM   #3740
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,899
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
What would be the point of people working to run a casino to distribute fictional money? Don't you need all hands on deck to build more Ferraris since a lot more people will demand one if they are "free"?
When people play any games they don't play only for money, when you go to play your rich sport, golf, do you play in order to make money?
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th May 2019, 01:30 PM   #3741
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Springwood, NJ
Posts: 29,694
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
When people play any games they don't play only for money, when you go to play your rich sport, golf, do you play in order to make money?
You weren't talking about golf. You were talking about gamblng which is wagering money for sport. Sex workers will be free in your bizarre world?
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th May 2019, 05:39 PM   #3742
curious cat
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
..................... Sex workers will be free in your bizarre world?
Yeah... an interesting question. Would they still be "workers" or just hobbyists?
curious cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 12:48 AM   #3743
Joecool
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,469
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
When people play any games they don't play only for money, when you go to play your rich sport, golf, do you play in order to make money?
Yes, my friends and I wager for money frequently when we golf. We normally wager on par 3 holes. How does that work in Gaetan's world?
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 01:15 AM   #3744
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,899
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Yes, my friends and I wager for money frequently when we golf. We normally wager on par 3 holes. How does that work in Gaetan's world?
Ya but others don't love money as much as you and they play golf for fun.
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 04:51 AM   #3745
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Springwood, NJ
Posts: 29,694
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Ya but others don't love money as much as you and they play golf for fun.
Now answer the question. Otherwise, I think it's great that you're making sex workers be free.
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 11:15 AM   #3746
The Man
Unbanned zombie poster
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 13,727
Originally Posted by curious cat View Post
I can see some spark of intelligence here . But the question is rather redundant. In the world without money there would be no casinos, right?
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Yes, my friends and I wager for money frequently when we golf. We normally wager on par 3 holes. How does that work in Gaetan's world?
Without money, wagering would have to encompass something else. Life, death loss of a limb or digitus. Perhaps some form of humiliation, as some people are into that. So the loser doesn't just lose something, the winner gets something they might enjoy.
__________________
BRAINZZZZZZZZ
The Man is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 11:22 AM   #3747
The Man
Unbanned zombie poster
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 13,727
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Ya but others don't love money as much as you and they play golf for fun.

People wager money for fun as well. So the mere act of wagering money in no ways indicates one has any particular love of money.
__________________
BRAINZZZZZZZZ
The Man is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 09:50 AM   #3748
Joecool
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,469
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Ya but others don't love money as much as you and they play golf for fun.
What does that have to do with loving money? Truth be told, "poor" people probably worry and think about money more than I do. Does that mean they love money?

If not having enough money is a problem, then why do you want to eliminate money? Shouldn't the idea be to make sure people have enough money?
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 05:43 PM   #3749
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,899
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
What does that have to do with loving money? Truth be told, "poor" people probably worry and think about money more than I do. Does that mean they love money?

If not having enough money is a problem, then why do you want to eliminate money? Shouldn't the idea be to make sure people have enough money?
To obtain spirituality you have to delete material goods as money and to abolish money is a good thing to obtain that kind of perpetual happiness.

Last edited by Gaetan; Today at 05:53 PM.
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:10 PM   #3750
Little 10 Toes
Graduate Poster
 
Little 10 Toes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,944
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
To obtain spirituality you have to delete material goods as money
No you don't.

Quote:
and to abolish money is a good thing to obtain that kind of perpetual happiness.
No you don't.

Why are you still using money? Why haven't you moved to the Holy Land? Why don't you know how your Internet bill is paid?
Little 10 Toes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:25 PM   #3751
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Springwood, NJ
Posts: 29,694
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
To obtain spirituality you have to delete material goods as money and to abolish money is a good thing to obtain that kind of perpetual happiness.
Now you're saying that because Jesus said "the laborer deserves his wages" that he wasn't spiritual? He probably had to pay for his sex workers.
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Economics, Business and Finance

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:41 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.