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Old 13th April 2018, 07:54 PM   #1
Bob001
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Lost teen narrowly escapes shotgun blast

A 14-year-old who missed his morning school bus and knocked on a door to ask for directions to walk to school had to run from a homeowner who fired a shotgun at him. Kid, of course, black; neighbor, white.
http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...ochester-hills
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:01 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
A 14-year-old who missed his morning school bus and knocked on a door to ask for directions to walk to school had to run from a homeowner who fired a shotgun at him. Kid, of course, black; neighbor, white.
http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...ochester-hills
These results need more news coverage:
Quote:
[Man who shot and killed a young black woman who had come to the door for help after she was in a car accident] was convicted of second-degree murder and sentenced to at least 17 years in prison. Last year, he tried to get an appeal based on jury instructions but the Michigan Supreme Court denied that appeal in March.
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:20 PM   #3
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I remember riding a bus to school every day. Not much to do other than look out the window and have the route to school ingrained in your brain. Having to ask which way to walk to get to the school that you go to every day makes no sense to me.

I've got to be missing something here because he shouldn't have needed advice on walking to school.
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:27 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I remember riding a bus to school every day. Not much to do other than look out the window and have the route to school ingrained in your brain. Having to ask which way to walk to get to the school that you go to every day makes no sense to me.

I've got to be missing something here because he shouldn't have needed advice on walking to school.
I remember riding a bus to school every day. Having plenty of kids to talk to, argue with, and hide from, not to mention books to read, I rarely paid a lot of attention to the route from the bus stop to the middle school (fairly long ride since I was on the edge of my middle school's area). In fact, I remember being amazed when, after a year of going to the school, I found out that the street in front of the school was a cul-de-sac. In the 8th grade, I was surprised to find out how close it was to a pizza place with a [non-Super] Mario Brothers machine. I never knew my middle school's address.
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:29 PM   #5
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Withdrawn.
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:29 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I remember riding a bus to school every day. Not much to do other than look out the window and have the route to school ingrained in your brain. Having to ask which way to walk to get to the school that you go to every day makes no sense to me.

I've got to be missing something here because he shouldn't have needed advice on walking to school.
If the bus traveled any distance on interstates or other non-pedestrian highways, he would have needed to figure out an alternate route. Not everybody grew up in Mayberry. Or maybe he knew the bus followed a winding route through neighborhoods and he was looking for a quicker way. Or maybe he just slept on the bus every day. Nothing should have gotten him nearly killed.

Last edited by Bob001; 13th April 2018 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:34 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Not saying it didn't happen but:



Ermmm......what?
Sounds like he took aim while the kid was close, pulled the trigger and nothing happened. Then he had to click the safety off, giving the kid more time to get away before he could try again.
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:34 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I remember riding a bus to school every day. Not much to do other than look out the window and have the route to school ingrained in your brain.

Bully for you.



Quote:
Having to ask which way to walk to get to the school that you go to every day makes no sense to me.

Argument from incredulity?

It's easy for it not to make sense if your goal is for it to not make sense.

Quote:

I've got to be missing something here because he shouldn't have needed advice on walking to school.

Maybe he missed one turn, realized he was off track, and wanted to get it straightened out.

Maybe he was following the right track, but became a little nervous and uncertain, so he decided to stop and check.

Maybe, unlike you, he uses the school bus trip to read, or listen to music or the radio, or play games on his phone, or text, or talk with his friends.

I could go on, probably for quite a while.

Do I need to?
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:42 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I remember riding a bus to school every day. Not much to do other than look out the window and have the route to school ingrained in your brain. Having to ask which way to walk to get to the school that you go to every day makes no sense to me.

I've got to be missing something here because he shouldn't have needed advice on walking to school.
I remember walking to school all the time and never having to stop to ask for directions and never being shot at. What these wonderful memories have to do with the experience of the teenager in the story, well I dunno, but clearly if he had identical experiences to me then none of this would have happened.
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:45 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Sounds like he took aim while the kid was close, pulled the trigger and nothing happened. Then he had to click the safety off, giving the kid more time to get away before he could try again.
Re-read the news article - Your explanation makes sense. Comment withdrawn.
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:46 PM   #11
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Maybe there will be follow up stories explaining the curious question of the necessity of getting directions.
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:50 PM   #12
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OMG!

To the people in the thread who think the black kid was acting suspiciously [for whatever rationalization you want to use to justify the racism] does it not dawn on any of you that shooting at anyone because they knocked on your door IS INSANE!!!!!
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:00 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
OMG!

To the people in the thread who think the black kid was acting suspiciously [for whatever rationalization you want to use to justify the racism] does it not dawn on any of you that shooting at anyone because they knocked on your door IS INSANE!!!!!
It's not insane. It's criminal.

https://www.facebook.com/WJBKFox2Det...6572754147994/

The charges he may be facing carry severe punishment, if found guilty. I applaud this.
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:05 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
It's not insane. It's criminal.

https://www.facebook.com/WJBKFox2Det...6572754147994/

The charges he may be facing carry severe punishment, if found guilty. I applaud this.
Well, yeah. That's a given.

My post was directed at forumites who went straight to the, 'he's black, he must be a thug', POV.
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:06 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe there will be follow up stories explaining the curious question of the necessity of getting directions.
National Inquirer at 9. ASKING FOR DIRECTIONS? INSIDIOUS NEW TERRORISTIC THREAT? OR TACTIC BY BLACK SERIAL RAPIST THUGS TO STEAL YOUR WEALTH, WOMEN AND WHISKEY AND MURDER YOUR PUPPYDOGS, AND KITTENS? ANSWERS TONIGHT AT 9!

Last edited by Hungry81; 13th April 2018 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:24 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe there will be follow up stories explaining the curious question of the necessity of getting directions.
Ahhh nothing like going for a drive on a Sunday with the top down, warm sun shining and the wind blowing through your hair, on the way to enjoy the picnic the wife packed earlier that morning.
Yes driving along, taking your time, enjoying the "scenic route", until the wife, obviously affected by womanly issues and hysteria, suggests you stop for directions. Fortunately this is easy enough to solve with a loving but corrective backhand, to knock those vapours out of her, and you can continue on and enjoy a lovely day.
But what should you do when your day is ruined because the door to your handsome home is assaulted by a rabid person of colour "just asking directions?"

Assist him on his way with our newest product Reamingtons Navigational Assistance Aid. One burst of this and he will suddenly remember the directions to where he should be, whether it's the cemetary or just somewhere far away from your house, reamingtons navigational aid works every time, whether its "one of those "(((people)))"", the wife, or a disobedient or disapointing child. Help bring back a time when men and America were truely great. 5 dollars off if you mention this add.

Last edited by Hungry81; 13th April 2018 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:25 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
I
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
OMG!

To the people in the thread who think the black kid was acting suspiciously [for whatever rationalization you want to use to justify the racism] does it not dawn on any of you that shooting at anyone because they knocked on your door IS INSANE!!!!!
It's not insane. It's criminal.

https://www.facebook.com/WJBKFox2Det...6572754147994/

The charges he may be facing carry severe punishment, if found guilty. I applaud this.

Yeah, me too, but my hopes aren't high.

The guy's a retired firefighter, which may be close enough to a cop to engage a jury's brain freeze over 'reasonable fear for his safety'.

And he's white, with a big black dude at his door. In broad daylight!!! Who wouldn't be reasonably in fear of their safety. What business could a big black dude possibly have at their door at that time of day?

Plus, no one was 'really' hurt.

I can see him getting off scot free. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he gets a slap on the wrist. I don't hold out much hope for him getting the sort of sentence that would be a deterrent to this sort of behavior for others.


Might keep big black dudes from going up to white people's doors in the mornings and giving them such a terrible fright, though.
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Old 13th April 2018, 10:37 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Yeah, me too, but my hopes aren't high.

The guy's a retired firefighter, which may be close enough to a cop to engage a jury's brain freeze over 'reasonable fear for his safety'.

And he's white, with a big black dude at his door. In broad daylight!!! Who wouldn't be reasonably in fear of their safety. What business could a big black dude possibly have at their door at that time of day?

Plus, no one was 'really' hurt.

I can see him getting off scot free. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he gets a slap on the wrist. I don't hold out much hope for him getting the sort of sentence that would be a deterrent to this sort of behavior for others.


Might keep big black dudes from going up to white people's doors in the mornings and giving them such a terrible fright, though.
Na, he ain't gettin' 'way with nuthin'.
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Old 13th April 2018, 10:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Well, yeah. That's a given.

My post was directed at forumites who went straight to the, 'he's black, he must be a thug', POV.
That's to be expected from some people on this forum, so I'm not surprised in the slightest. Nor am I surprised at another entry in the "white person freaking out about black kid doing normal things" genre*. Luckily, the cops in this case sound eager to see Quickdraw McGraw prosecuted, so there's that.

*: Anyone post the video of two black guys being arrested in Starbucks for waiting for a friend yet? I'd say I couldn't wait to watch the pretzel logic to justify that one, but in truth, it'll mostly be by people I already have on ignore.
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Old 14th April 2018, 02:03 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
A 14-year-old who missed his morning school bus and knocked on a door to ask for directions to walk to school had to run from a homeowner who fired a shotgun at him. Kid, of course, black; neighbor, white.
http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...ochester-hills
Whatever punishment he gets from the courts, I hope he has right to bear arms taken away for life too. And the same for his stupid wife who went into hysterics at the sight of the kid instead of just listening to his explanation.
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Old 14th April 2018, 02:56 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
Ahhh nothing like going for a drive on a Sunday with the top down, warm sun shining and the wind blowing through your hair, on the way to enjoy the picnic the wife packed earlier that morning.
Yes driving along, taking your time, enjoying the "scenic route", until the wife, obviously affected by womanly issues and hysteria, suggests you stop for directions. Fortunately this is easy enough to solve with a loving but corrective backhand, to knock those vapours out of her, and you can continue on and enjoy a lovely day.
But what should you do when your day is ruined because the door to your handsome home is assaulted by a rabid person of colour "just asking directions?"

Assist him on his way with our newest product Reamingtons Navigational Assistance Aid. One burst of this and he will suddenly remember the directions to where he should be, whether it's the cemetary or just somewhere far away from your house, reamingtons navigational aid works every time, whether its "one of those "(((people)))"", the wife, or a disobedient or disapointing child. Help bring back a time when men and America were truely great. 5 dollars off if you mention this add.
Even edited, the last word still has one too many d's. Reamington would certainly be an interesting name for a company but the a is not in the real name!!!
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Old 14th April 2018, 03:50 AM   #22
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To be fair, I imagine the couple had suffered a spate of well-groomed robbers knocking on their front door to enquire whether they were amenable to being robbed today, and this latest incident was the straw that broke the camel's back.
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:27 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
To the people in the thread who think the black kid was acting suspiciously [for whatever rationalization you want to use to justify the racism] does it not dawn on any of you that shooting at anyone because they knocked on your door IS INSANE!!!!!
I can only imagine such people live in constant terror, all the time, that they react this way. They're living in the world's mightiest nation, in an era of luxury and peace unprecedented in human history, and they're convinced they're going to be violently killed at any moment? That's seeing the world as it isn't, a disconnection from reality...and isn't that one of the definitions of insanity? Grossly inappropriate reactions to ordinary events seems like a symptom to me. And they should receive treatment so their madness doesn't harm themselves or others.

Unless they lived in an intensely crime-filled area, of course. If they'd been home-invaded I can see why they'd be like that.
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:33 AM   #24
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Quote:
Jeff Zeigler faced a judge Friday for trying to shoot an unarmed 14-year-old boy. It is not the first time he got into trouble with a gun. Warren police arrested Zeigler for shooting at a car in a road rage incident on I-696. It happened in 2004.
http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...ous-gun-charge

This scumbag will not get away with this, hopefully.
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:35 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe there will be follow up stories explaining the curious question of the necessity of getting directions.
I'm reminded of the review Mary Todd Lincoln gave of "Our American Cousin".
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:46 AM   #26
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And what if the kid has a history?

Around my neighborhood the burglarys happen during school hours by kids playing hooky. "Asking for directions" is a good cover story for casing the house. A while ago I had a knock on the door, by a teen girl, "looking for a woman". Her boy friend was at the trunk of his car out front, waiting for her to come out with any swag.

But I didn't have to shoot anybody.

eta: I bet the day time burglary rates drops in the neighborhood.
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:55 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
And what if the kid has a history?

Around my neighborhood the burglarys happen during school hours by kids playing hooky. "Asking for directions" is a good cover story for casing the house. A while ago I had a knock on the door, by a teen girl, "looking for a woman". Her boy friend was at the trunk of his car out front, waiting for her to come out with any swag.

But I didn't have to shoot anybody.

eta: I bet the day time burglary rates drops in the neighborhood.
Nothing to suggest the kid has a history. The shooter, OTOH, does have a history but don't let facts get in the way of your need to justify a maniac with a gun.
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:56 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
And what if the kid has a history?

Around my neighborhood the burglarys happen during school hours by kids playing hooky. "Asking for directions" is a good cover story for casing the house. A while ago I had a knock on the door, by a teen girl, "looking for a woman". Her boy friend was at the trunk of his car out front, waiting for her to come out with any swag.

But I didn't have to shoot anybody.

eta: I bet the day time burglary rates drops in the neighborhood.
It wouldn't matter. The kid was running, not in the house, not a threat. If he had a "history" it would still be a unjustified shooting.
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Old 14th April 2018, 07:14 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...ous-gun-charge

This scumbag will not get away with this, hopefully.
I don't know how US law factors in past convictions, but it wouldn't be hard for a good lawyer to get this guy off (not that I think that's right, he should get life in jail if it's proved he was actually shooting at the kid). The lawyer need only put forward that his client had heard his wife screaming, grabbed the gun and run outside to protect her, only find a stranger on their property. A guilty verdict would require the jury to decide that this explanation was beyond the bounds of credibility.
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Old 14th April 2018, 08:18 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I don't know how US law factors in past convictions, but it wouldn't be hard for a good lawyer to get this guy off (not that I think that's right, he should get life in jail if it's proved he was actually shooting at the kid). The lawyer need only put forward that his client had heard his wife screaming, grabbed the gun and run outside to protect her, only find a stranger on their property. A guilty verdict would require the jury to decide that this explanation was beyond the bounds of credibility.
No, he had no right at all to open fire on an unarmed stranger who was running away.
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Old 14th April 2018, 08:21 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
No, he had no right at all to open fire on an unarmed stranger who was running away.
That's not what I said.
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Old 14th April 2018, 08:24 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
That's not what I said.
That's in fact what he did.
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Old 14th April 2018, 08:26 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
That's not what I said.
I think that releasing the safety and firing again at a fleeing person would be enough for a decent lawyer to seize upon.

After all, it's not like the kid was a traveler.
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Old 14th April 2018, 08:29 AM   #34
baron
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If anyone comes along who can understand basic English, let me know.
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Old 14th April 2018, 08:30 AM   #35
MRC_Hans
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Yeah, me too, but my hopes aren't high.

The guy's a retired firefighter, which may be close enough to a cop to engage a jury's brain freeze over 'reasonable fear for his safety'.

And he's white, with a big black dude at his door. In broad daylight!!! Who wouldn't be reasonably in fear of their safety. What business could a big black dude possibly have at their door at that time of day?

Plus, no one was 'really' hurt.

I can see him getting off scot free. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he gets a slap on the wrist. I don't hold out much hope for him getting the sort of sentence that would be a deterrent to this sort of behavior for others.


Might keep big black dudes from going up to white people's doors in the mornings and giving them such a terrible fright, though.
Look, even if he was neurotically afraid of being assaulted, what is the excuse for firing (or trying to)? And especially commencing to fire after the caller started running away?

Hans
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Old 14th April 2018, 08:31 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
I think that releasing the safety and firing again at a fleeing person would be enough for a decent lawyer to seize upon.

After all, it's not like the kid was a traveler.
That second shot would get him in trouble even if the kid was a traveller, (see Tony Martin).
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Old 14th April 2018, 08:37 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I can only imagine such people live in constant terror, all the time, that they react this way. They're living in the world's mightiest nation, in an era of luxury and peace unprecedented in human history, and they're convinced they're going to be violently killed at any moment? That's seeing the world as it isn't, a disconnection from reality...and isn't that one of the definitions of insanity? Grossly inappropriate reactions to ordinary events seems like a symptom to me. And they should receive treatment so their madness doesn't harm themselves or others.
^This. x1000
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Old 14th April 2018, 08:42 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
If anyone comes along who can understand basic English, let me know.
Why don't you say what you think you mean? Your speculation about his speculation does not justify or excuse his action, and a prosecutor will have no trouble proving it.
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Old 14th April 2018, 08:48 AM   #39
Cavemonster
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Look, even if he was neurotically afraid of being assaulted, what is the excuse for firing (or trying to)? And especially commencing to fire after the caller started running away?

Hans
I can't think of one, but I'll bet his lawyer can.
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Old 14th April 2018, 08:49 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why don't you say what you think you mean? Your speculation about his speculation does not justify or excuse his action, and a prosecutor will have no trouble proving it.
Baron's point it seems was that the right lie could sway a jury, even if it shouldn't. That seems like a pretty accurate assessment.
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