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Old 14th April 2018, 06:27 PM   #121
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I've been cased by what I thought was a potential thief in my neighborhood in the past. A man was going around trying to interest people in a home security system. It was a good way to get people to come to the door and find out more about their home security or lack of it. This guy didn't have a phone or a business card.

Didn't prompt me to shoot at him with my shotgun. I did talk to my neighbors (they got the same visits) and inform the local police though.

If a person at my door ever spooked me, I'd be installing a video/audio monitor and engaging them (verbally) from my couch.

Ranb
The odd thing is that apparently, they had such a system. At the very least, they had something that recorded both audio and video. If they were that spooked, they should have just called the police, but this guy apparently carried a loaded gun in his car, and kept a gun loaded in his house. I guess he though calling the police would have been unworthy of such a rugged individualist.

For those who don't get why the homeowner had at least some reason to be suspicious, there is a teenaged boy knocking on your door during school hours. (I am assuming, from the stories, that by the time of the incident, school should have been in session. At the very least, the kid should have been on his way to school, presumably in a school bus. That would be normal for that time of day, since there weren't any high schools in normal walking distance from this neighborhood. So it's very odd that, instead of being on a school bus or in class, this kid is knocking on doors. That's odd. It's also what a thief might do. If the homeowner isn't home....great. Now to figure out how to get into the house. If the homeowner is home.....well, then....uhhh....."I'm lost. Can you help?"

No justification in shooting him, though, unless he did something that a reasonable person would interpret as life threatening, but is it suspicious? Yeah. Sometimes, suspicious behavior is completely innocent, but a school aged kid knocking on doors during school hours is very odd.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 14th April 2018 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:29 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
I'm more interested in the reaction of the Mrs. If she was full blown hysterical, that might justify his reaction, and lead to an acquittal. Not saying it should, just that I could see it happening.
I wonder more why she isn't charged with incitement to crime. Or, if she was was truly hysterical just from one of "these people" on her porch, she should be involuntarily committed or at least undergo some serious counseling.
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:51 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The odd thing is that apparently, they had such a system. At the very least, they had something that recorded both audio and video. If they were that spooked, they should have just called the police, but this guy apparently carried a loaded gun in his car, and kept a gun loaded in his house. I guess he though calling the police would have been unworthy of such a rugged individualist.

For those who don't get why the homeowner had at least some reason to be suspicious, there is a teenaged boy knocking on your door during school hours. (I am assuming, from the stories, that by the time of the incident, school should have been in session. At the very least, the kid should have been on his way to school, presumably in a school bus. That would be normal for that time of day, since there weren't any high schools in normal walking distance from this neighborhood. So it's very odd that, instead of being on a school bus or in class, this kid is knocking on doors. That's odd. It's also what a thief might do. If the homeowner isn't home....great. Now to figure out how to get into the house. If the homeowner is home.....well, then....uhhh....."I'm lost. Can you help?"

No justification in shooting him, though, unless he did something that a reasonable person would interpret as life threatening, but is it suspicious? Yeah. Sometimes, suspicious behavior is completely innocent, but a school aged kid knocking on doors during school hours is very odd.
Nope not buying it. Paranoid gun worshipping racists is the simplist explaination at the present time.
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Old 14th April 2018, 09:34 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Honestly that doesn't matter. He had a duty of care to assess the situation himself and act responsibly, not to react emotionally to her reactions.

Exactly.

It isn't like he was a cop or something, where that sort of thing doesn't matter.
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Old 14th April 2018, 09:44 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
<snip>

No justification in shooting him, though, unless he did something that a reasonable person would interpret as life threatening, but is it suspicious? Yeah. Sometimes, suspicious behavior is completely innocent, but a school aged kid knocking on doors during school hours is very odd.

Odd? A little bit, perhaps. Very odd? Nah, not so much.

Homeschooling, teacher work day, school field project .. all sorts of not very odd explanations are available.

Knocking on the front door in broad daylight with the intent to attack whoever answers would be somewhat far down my list of possible explanations.

That would be "very odd", indeed.

Not to mention that he did look older than fourteen.

My first guess might have been a JW going solo. That might be a little bit odd, too.

But just a little bit.
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Old 14th April 2018, 09:50 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Odd? A little bit, perhaps. Very odd? Nah, not so much.

Homeschooling, teacher work day, school field project .. all sorts of not very odd explanations are available.

Knocking on the front door in broad daylight with the intent to attack whoever answers would be somewhat far down my list of possible explanations.

That would be "very odd", indeed.

Not to mention that he did look older than fourteen.

My first guess might have been a JW going solo. That might be a little bit odd, too.

But just a little bit.
And that's a nuance that gets lost (or immediately thrown out the window) in pretty much every discussion of any concept of defense or use of force.

Yeah certain situations do set off your "Something's off here" alarm. That's natural and understandable.

But more and more the extremes seem to be either you have to completely ignore that feeling or react with absolute maximum force.

Like okay maybe having a visitor in the middle of the day was odd. Could be. Maybe that visitor being a school age kid made it a little weirder. Okay, I can buy that. Maybe it was a crappy neighbor hood or there was a rash of daylight robberies lately. Stuff like that happens.

So you crack door and ask him what he wants first. You keep your cell phone ready. You ask him to wait a minute on the porch while take a breath and gauge the situation.

You can be a suspicious paranoid twat all you want. That's still legal and hell it's pretty understandable at times.

I just think "shotgun blast" is pretty far up there on the "escalation of force" chart.
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Old 14th April 2018, 10:07 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And that's a nuance that gets lost (or immediately thrown out the window) in pretty much every discussion of any concept of defense or use of force.

Yeah certain situations do set off your "Something's off here" alarm. That's natural and understandable.

But more and more the extremes seem to be either you have to completely ignore that feeling or react with absolute maximum force.

Like okay maybe having a visitor in the middle of the day was odd. Could be. Maybe that visitor being a school age kid made it a little weirder. Okay, I can buy that. Maybe it was a crappy neighbor hood or there was a rash of daylight robberies lately. Stuff like that happens.

So you crack door and ask him what he wants first. You keep your cell phone ready. You ask him to wait a minute on the porch while take a breath and gauge the situation.

You can be a suspicious paranoid twat all you want. That's still legal and hell it's pretty understandable at times.

I just think "shotgun blast" is pretty far up there on the "escalation of force" chart.

That pretty much sums it up. I think a lot of people would have been suspicious. Very few would have reacted by using deadly force.

Last year, I had a cop stop me when I was sitting in my car in my neighborhood. My cell phone rang, and I had pulled over to take the call. The cop explained that one of the nearby residents thought a man sitting in his parked car in front of her house was suspicious. Fortunately, all she did was call the cops, instead of getting out her trusty shotgun.


FWIW, the incident from this thread didn't happen in a bad neighborhood. My workplace is about a mile from there and I pass it frequently. It's a pretty nice neighborhood.

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Old 14th April 2018, 10:20 PM   #128
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I used to work in juvenile court.

My clients often walked everywhere. So while the idea that a fourteen-year-old would walk a few miles to school is not strange, the idea that he would not know how to get there is odd. My clients knew their way around.

Also, back then (approximately 15 years ago ... wow time flies), daytime burglary cases were a regular part of my juvenile court caseload.

Not saying the kid in this story was casing the place or anything, but as for the idea that he "looks innocent" ... Ha. Ha. Ha.

I had one client who looked way more innocent and nerdy than this kid (think Urkel) who was arrested on a burglary charge. He was released pending trial. Before that case came to trial, he picked up an additional burglary charge. By some miracle, another attorney managed to get him released on those charges, too. Well, then Mr. Worst Burglar Ever managed to get arrested a third time for ... yes ... yet another burglary charge. Guess who the lucky attorney was that got to take those three cases to trial? Slam dunk win for the state.

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Old 14th April 2018, 11:11 PM   #129
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I know a full grown adult that has refused to learn to drive and, while a passenger, basically zones out and has no clue how to get anywhere.
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Old 15th April 2018, 01:18 AM   #130
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For what it’s worth, many bus routes in Australia don’t go the most direct way from point A to point B. They go where passengers are most likely. So it is absolutely reasonable that this kid did not know the most direct way to school.
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Old 15th April 2018, 01:54 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I know a full grown adult that has refused to learn to drive and, while a passenger, basically zones out and has no clue how to get anywhere.
Sounds like my wife up until age thirty.

It reminds me of when I was working in Houston many years ago, one of the things that really struck me as an (at the time) young British person was how rare it was to see anyone walking anywhere and how difficult it was to get to even a very close destination unless you drove. Obviously, the area of Houston I was staying in may not have been representative of the city as a whole, and I certainly wouldn't assume it was representative of the country as a whole, but that degree of pedestrian inaccessibility would be unthinkable anywhere I've ever been in Europe.
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Old 15th April 2018, 07:43 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Sounds like my wife up until age thirty.

It reminds me of when I was working in Houston many years ago, one of the things that really struck me as an (at the time) young British person was how rare it was to see anyone walking anywhere and how difficult it was to get to even a very close destination unless you drove. Obviously, the area of Houston I was staying in may not have been representative of the city as a whole, and I certainly wouldn't assume it was representative of the country as a whole, but that degree of pedestrian inaccessibility would be unthinkable anywhere I've ever been in Europe.

Public transportation didn't have the chance to get its foot in the door here in the same way it did in Europe. Most of the places which are heavily populated now were nothing but farmland even well after the explosion of personal transportation in the U.S. (Which, it might be pointed out, was occurring when my grandparents were in high school. Not all that long ago, in other words.)

The need for a widespread suburban public transportation system wasn't easily apparent or even feasible as the population serving urban concentrations started out settling ... by choice ... well outside of any urban concentrations. What urban concentrations we did have were fairly well equipped with public transportation, probably as well as European counterparts, and still are. We just don't have the same kind of urban concentrations, and the ones we have that are analogous are a lot farther apart.

By the time the need was obvious it had become much more difficult (and expensive) to implement, and the amount of sheer acreage to be served much, much greater.

It isn't surprising that the advent of individual autonomous vehicles is being seen as a potential solution to the need for public transportation. It is a development very much like the advent of personal automobiles which engendered the suburban sprawl that had raised the problem in the first place.
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Old 15th April 2018, 07:56 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Public transportation didn't have the chance to get its foot in the door here in the same way it did in Europe. Most of the places which are heavily populated now were nothing but farmland even well after the explosion of personal transportation in the U.S. (Which, it might be pointed out, was occurring when my grandparents were in high school. Not all that long ago, in other words.)
.....
That's not entirely true. The cities that were founded before the advent of the automobile tended to be densely populated, and they developed substantial public transportation systems. You can get along okay without a car in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, Chicago etc. unless you live in the far suburbs. It's the post-auto-era cities, LA and Houston being prime examples, that were based on the premise that people could always drive everywhere.
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Old 15th April 2018, 08:11 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That's not entirely true. The cities that were founded before the advent of the automobile tended to be densely populated, and they developed substantial public transportation systems. You can get along okay without a car in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, Chicago etc. unless you live in the far suburbs. It's the post-auto-era cities, LA and Houston being prime examples, that were based on the premise that people could always drive everywhere.
I've only visited New York City once, it was a freebie and we didn't have a lot of cash (although we did have a Park view suite at the Mayflower Hotel, long story) so other than a cab to and from the airport, and a carriage ride around Central Park we walked everywhere. In Houston I'd be standing in one car park looking across at the next store I wanted to go to but have no way to get to it other than driving from one car park to the next. I also genuinely saw people come out of a store, get in their car and drive to another space in the same car park that was nearer the next store!
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Old 15th April 2018, 08:12 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Honestly that doesn't matter. He had a duty of care to assess the situation himself and act responsibly, not to react emotionally to her reactions.
It will matter to a jury. The emotional state of the wife, and her words, as well as well as any reaction by the kid will all come into play. Which is why I'm curious as to what is on the video.
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Old 15th April 2018, 09:54 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That's not entirely true. The cities that were founded before the advent of the automobile tended to be densely populated, and they developed substantial public transportation systems. You can get along okay without a car in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, Chicago etc. unless you live in the far suburbs. It's the post-auto-era cities, LA and Houston being prime examples, that were based on the premise that people could always drive everywhere.

That pretty much supports the point I was making.

Urban centers which grew prior to the advent of widespread personal transportation developed public transport very much like (even inspired by) the European model.

But much of our population grown and accompanying settlement has taken place subsequent to that change.

A modern European visitor might be hard pressed to recognize the difference.

P.J. Denyer was speaking specifically about Houston, a great example, which was nothing but open range in 1835, and had a population under 44,000 at the turn of the century (which was still after decades of double digit growth from the Civil War on).

With the discovery of oil (and the demand for such, spurred by automobile transportation), Houston grew exponentially.

Public transportation inevitably struggled to keep up.

Quite a bit different from New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, Chicago, etc., where a tradition of public transportation was already firmly established, and expected by the residents.
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Old 15th April 2018, 10:08 AM   #137
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TBH I was writing less about public transport than the simple ability to walk from one place to another. As a contrast, where I live public transport sucks, you really need a car, but you can safely and legally walk from my house to any of the local businesses or to neighbouring villages and towns. The only limit is your stamina. The M40, one of Britain's busiest motorways, passes close by seperating two tiny villages (it's the bit in the Vicar of Dibley title sequence), it has four pedestrian underpasses in a mile. In Houston I was in a motel on Westheimer, there was a convenience store on the opposite side of the ring road and a mall within a few hundred yards but I couldn't safely or legally get to them on foot.
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Old 15th April 2018, 10:19 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I've only visited New York City once, it was a freebie and we didn't have a lot of cash (although we did have a Park view suite at the Mayflower Hotel, long story) so other than a cab to and from the airport, and a carriage ride around Central Park we walked everywhere. In Houston I'd be standing in one car park looking across at the next store I wanted to go to but have no way to get to it other than driving from one car park to the next. I also genuinely saw people come out of a store, get in their car and drive to another space in the same car park that was nearer the next store!
Agree thoroughly on New York! Not only had no trouble getting from place to place there, but helped a few New Yorkers figure out the next subway to take-
learned the most likely ones I would need and alternates in case of problems a few months before I went up there!!!
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Old 15th April 2018, 11:43 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
TBH I was writing less about public transport than the simple ability to walk from one place to another. As a contrast, where I live public transport sucks, you really need a car, but you can safely and legally walk from my house to any of the local businesses or to neighbouring villages and towns. The only limit is your stamina. The M40, one of Britain's busiest motorways, passes close by seperating two tiny villages (it's the bit in the Vicar of Dibley title sequence), it has four pedestrian underpasses in a mile. In Houston I was in a motel on Westheimer, there was a convenience store on the opposite side of the ring road and a mall within a few hundred yards but I couldn't safely or legally get to them on foot.


And I expect that the same explanation applies.

I'm not defending anything, so don't misunderstand. It is just that the evolution of so many recently founded and even more recently developed (recent, as in the last century) population centers was forged around the ubiquity of personal transportation. There would certainly have been room for more foresight, and even now efforts are growing to try and rectify some of the worst issues, but nonetheless, the patterns and processes were crafted for the most pressing of the needs at hand, and walking from one place to another was not always high on those lists. There just weren't enough people walking in those places.

I've watched roads that were two lane streets with a few homes on them turn into six lane traffic arteries in less than twenty years. Interstates driven through the middle of downtowns. They weren't built for pedestrians, and pedestrian access is often an afterthought and a promise. Not by the designers as much as by the politicians holding the purse strings, who figure the important thing to keep the majority of their constituents happy is to get the damn road widened or built. Better crosswalks, pedestrian bridges, bicycle lanes ... all that can come later.

Whenever 'later' is.
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Old 15th April 2018, 11:58 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That's not entirely true. The cities that were founded before the advent of the automobile tended to be densely populated, and they developed substantial public transportation systems. You can get along okay without a car in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, Chicago etc. unless you live in the far suburbs. It's the post-auto-era cities, LA and Houston being prime examples, that were based on the premise that people could always drive everywhere.
LA is spending a lot of money ($40+ billion) to reinvent itself as a city with vast public transportation. Over a hundred miles of light rail or subway currently under construction. They are also spending money to redo entire districts into more pedestrian friendly zones with stores oriented along landscaped sidewalks directly on streets.
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Old 15th April 2018, 12:25 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Nothing to suggest the kid has a history.
Um, he's black. Crime runs in his family.
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Old 16th April 2018, 09:08 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
The traditional form of greeting: buckshot to the face
As point of form, the greeting is: buckshot to the back.

Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Um, he's black. Crime runs in his family.
And lucky for him, it runs pretty quickly.
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Old 16th April 2018, 09:13 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
No, he had no right at all to open fire on an unarmed stranger who was running away.
Yea it isn't like he was a cop.
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Old 16th April 2018, 09:21 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The "simple explanation" seems even more likely, based on some information in this story.



http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/14...irections.html

There are a couple of bits of information in that story that weren't in any of the stories I read yesterday. Nothing incredibly significant, but just subtle elements that tend to support the teen's version of events. Also, earlier I said that a year in jail might be the best outcome, but if this story is correct, this is at least the second time this dude decided to take a shot at someone. I'm willing to forgive a one-off mistake, but if you screw up your second chance, that's not quite so forgivable.


ETA: And one year of probation for shooting at someone? That seems pretty lenient.
Hey wouldn't want to cost them their guns. The Home Depot shooting didn't even bar the woman from getting a concealed carry permit again in a few years. Shooting at someone is just not a serious crime in Michigan.
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Old 16th April 2018, 09:29 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Why was he still allowed to have a gun after the first time he fired one inappropriately? I understand that it was pled down to a misdemeanor, but it was a gun safety conviction. That's be enough to lose your licence here.
Because shooting at someone is just not a big deal in Michigan.

"On Wednesday Duva-Rodriguez was granted 18 months probation after she entered a plea of no contest to the charge on Oct. 26. Her permit to carry a concealed weapon was revoked until at least 2023."

http://time.com/4146086/woman-who-sh...anybody-again/

So these kinds of minor crimes do not even permanently take away peoples concealed carry permits here.
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Old 16th April 2018, 09:41 AM   #146
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If you shoot at a car in a road rage dispute, that is a clear indication that you should not be allowed to possess a firearm.

That should have been a felony, but he was allowed to plead to a misdemeanor.

We often simply don't enforce the firearms laws properly in this country.
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Old 16th April 2018, 11:52 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Um, he's black. Crime runs in his family.
It must be wonderful to live in a country where you can immediately spot the criminals by the colour of their skin. Its a good job there's no law abiding black folk or white criminals to confuse the issue.
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Old 16th April 2018, 05:14 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
It must be wonderful to live in a country where you can immediately spot the criminals by the colour of their skin. Its a good job there's no law abiding black folk or white criminals to confuse the issue.
You've been Cained. Poe's law applies.
I was about to post something like "Thug had no business in that neighborhood". You shouldn't take that seriously either, despite it being pretty much what some posters in this thread have said seriously.
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Old 16th April 2018, 05:44 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
If you shoot at a car in a road rage dispute, that is a clear indication that you should not be allowed to possess a firearm.
That was what I was thinking

The dude should have had no guns slapped on him then.

Unbelievable
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Old 17th April 2018, 04:10 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
That was what I was thinking

The dude should have had no guns slapped on him then.

Unbelievable
Look losing it and shooting at someone is just not a big deal in Michigan. Certainly not a reason to take away someone constitutional rights permanently.
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Old 17th April 2018, 04:38 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Look losing it and shooting at someone is just not a big deal in Michigan. Certainly not a reason to take away someone constitutional rights permanently.
Well, in the US we generally don't take away any constitutional rights permanently.

You can pretty much always get them back if you can make a good case that you should have them back.
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Old 17th April 2018, 03:59 PM   #152
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Should the wife be charged with felony attempted murder? She seems to have been an incitement and accomplice of her husband who did get charged.
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Old 17th April 2018, 04:20 PM   #153
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Did he grab the gun before or after he saw that the kid was black? His wife doesn't seem to announce his race when she's yelling about a robbery. After hearing that he might try to blast anyone there regardless of their race.
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Old 18th April 2018, 11:27 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Acquittals don't work that way. What you are describing is a hung jury (which we have lessened by allowing 10-2 results, but that's a digression). Hung Juries generally result in re-trials, especially if the Prosecutor had a 11-1 first time around.
True, though in the US, prosecutors have some discretion about whether to retry in the case of a hung jury. Actually, I think this guy's best chance is a jury trial. The fact that he has a prior conviction for misusing a gun is going to greatly reduce his chance of a plea bargain and a lenient sentence.

Jury selection is going to be key here. If he can get one or two people with a similar fear of black people on the jury he might get a hung jury or possibly even an acquittal. If he gets a jury with black people (or even sane white people), he's toast.
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Old 18th April 2018, 11:29 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
$50K is a pretty substantial bond for a middle class family. Even if they got a 10% through a bondsman, $5K is often hard to come up with quickly if you are a typical middle class family with mortgage and HP payments taking up most of your income. If you are lucky you might be able to put it on the credit card.
They might be able to use the home as collateral, with the bondsman, or get a second mortgage, depending on how much equity they have in it.

Last edited by CORed; 18th April 2018 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 18th April 2018, 11:33 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Because shooting at someone is just not a big deal in Michigan.

"On Wednesday Duva-Rodriguez was granted 18 months probation after she entered a plea of no contest to the charge on Oct. 26. Her permit to carry a concealed weapon was revoked until at least 2023."

http://time.com/4146086/woman-who-sh...anybody-again/

So these kinds of minor crimes do not even permanently take away peoples concealed carry permits here.
One can only hope that she sticks to her pledge never to help anyone again, considering her notion of helping.
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Old 18th April 2018, 12:16 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
That pretty much supports the point I was making.

Urban centers which grew prior to the advent of widespread personal transportation developed public transport very much like (even inspired by) the European model.

But much of our population grown and accompanying settlement has taken place subsequent to that change.

A modern European visitor might be hard pressed to recognize the difference.

P.J. Denyer was speaking specifically about Houston, a great example, which was nothing but open range in 1835, and had a population under 44,000 at the turn of the century (which was still after decades of double digit growth from the Civil War on).

With the discovery of oil (and the demand for such, spurred by automobile transportation), Houston grew exponentially.

Public transportation inevitably struggled to keep up.

Quite a bit different from New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, Chicago, etc., where a tradition of public transportation was already firmly established, and expected by the residents.
Land value, and land type also play a role. Houston is only slightly hemmed in by Galveston Bay. In every other direction there was wide open, almost perfectly flat land that was sparsely populated. There was simply no reason to spend extra money to pack people in.

And Texas oil field discoveries had little to do, directly, with Houston's enormous growth, most of them are 100's of miles from Houston. It was the devastating Galveston hurricane of 1900, which at that point was Texas' most important port, and the subsequent dredging work for Houston to become a protected deep water port. So it then became a refinery hub, since oil could be shipped in and refined products easily shipped out. Also, the invention of air conditioning led to growth. In Galveston you get an ocean breeze that makes summers more tolerable. In Houston the "summers" (more like 6 or 7 months a year) are absolutely miserable.

Last edited by lobosrul5; 18th April 2018 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 18th April 2018, 12:35 PM   #158
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We had a string of break ins in my neighborhood growing up. Not the safest place. I didn't realize until I was an adult just how "bad" the area of town I grew up in was.

Anyway - the M.O. was to turn the water on outside the house. If somebody came out to turn it off, they knew someone was home and the place was spared. I could easily see that turning into, "I was just getting a drink!"

So if there had been break-ins in the area - it's plausible that there was a casing M.O. going on. Especially in the 'D'. Create a situation with plausible deniability. But all I know of this situation is a couple headlines and the start to this thread.
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Old 18th April 2018, 12:52 PM   #159
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Regarding asking for directions - that doesn't strike me as all that unusual. I've learned there are two types of people in the world. Those who know where they are and how they got there, and those who don't care. I could be dropped off just about anywhere in and figure out my way home, with or without the aid of a smart phone or map. I might make a wrong turn here or there-but I'd eventually figure out some key point and work from there. But I know someone who drove two hours in the wrong direction trying to get to Florida for spring break.
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Old 18th April 2018, 02:05 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
<snip>

And Texas oil field discoveries had little to do, directly, with Houston's enormous growth, most of them are 100's of miles from Houston. It was the devastating Galveston hurricane of 1900, which at that point was Texas' most important port, and the subsequent dredging work for Houston to become a protected deep water port. So it then became a refinery hub, since oil could be shipped in and refined products easily shipped out.

<snip>

Yeah, I wasn't trying to be all that detailed. You did a good job of filling those in.

The point remains that Houston's growth was relatively recent, and the advent of personal transportation had a lot to do with that growth, which had a great effect on infrastructure evolution.
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