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Old 27th September 2018, 12:43 PM   #2441
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
They say they fired her because she "engaged in adverse conduct when she was arrested for Manslaughter." That means she was fired simply for being arrested even though she may be innocent and is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
I don't see why that means she was fired for being arrested. It cites "adverse conduct when she was arrested." Something took place when she was arrested, something inappropriate enough to get her fired.

ETA: I did not see anything in the CNN article linked to that indicates the adverse conduct was the arrest itself. Could have missed it, I'm not keeping up.

Last edited by Minoosh; 27th September 2018 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 27th September 2018, 12:52 PM   #2442
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She didn't do anything improper during her arrest. The adverse conduct was getting arrested for manslaughter.



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Old 27th September 2018, 12:56 PM   #2443
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I don't see why that means she was fired for being arrested. It cites "adverse conduct when she was arrested." Something took place when she was arrested, something inappropriate enough to get her fired.

ETA: I did not see anything in the CNN article linked to that indicates the adverse conduct was the arrest itself. Could have missed it, I'm not keeping up.
My first thought was refusing a drug test. Police departments often require an officer to take a drug test whenever one is requested/ordered. Refusing to take it would be grounds for disciplinary action, and the union may not be able to do anything about it.
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Old 27th September 2018, 12:58 PM   #2444
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You mean a second drug test? She'd already submitted to one at the time of the murder.
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Old 27th September 2018, 01:11 PM   #2445
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I would not be surprised if the awkward wording of the reason for her dismissal was a poor attempt at mirroring some language from their union contract.
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Old 27th September 2018, 01:12 PM   #2446
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
You mean a second drug test? She'd already submitted to one at the time of the murder.
Maybe. Like I said, it was my first thought, and there's probably something to the fact that I didn't mention it days ago.
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Old 27th September 2018, 04:27 PM   #2447
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I would not be surprised if the awkward wording of the reason for her dismissal was a poor attempt at mirroring some language from their union contract.
I think you're on the right track. I bet the union contract doesn't protect officers accused of "adverse conduct" committed while not on-duty, and the whole reason for this hearing and finding was to frame the case in those terms for the record.
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Old 1st October 2018, 05:00 AM   #2448
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Dallas, Black Cop shoots black guy, gets a mistrial.

Can't go back to work unless he gets found not-guilty.

He was fired as well.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/cour...-ends-mistrial

Quote:
Afterward, Wiley said he thought Jones might be a burglar, and the former officer testified this week that he feared for his life when he shot Jones.
I think this guy and Guyger are going to claim similar defenses, including:

Quote:
Prosecutors argued that Wiley didn't reasonably believe that Jones could've been armed.

But Lowthorp said officers have to make a split-second decision.

"You can't wait until the gun's out and the trigger is being pulled because you won't go home at the end of the evening," she said.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 05:24 AM   #2449
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https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/...ality-11193232

Editorial about an editorial

Quote:
But maybe not. The same jury might weigh all of the facts and testimony, all of the arguments and the law, and come to the conclusion that Botham Jean’s death was an awful and heart-rending accident. Period.

Think about what that would mean. If Jean’s death was an accident, not a murder, then think what a very serious mistake it would be to put it on the same map with the 1910 lynching of Allen Brooks in downtown Dallas or the 1973 murder — ruled murder by a jury — of 12-year-old Santos Rodriguez by a white Dallas cop. The gravity and significance of those terrible racist murders would be ill-served by lumping them together with a death that isn’t of the same order, that doesn’t fit the moral or legal pattern.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 05:35 AM   #2450
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I would not be surprised if the awkward wording of the reason for her dismissal was a poor attempt at mirroring some language from their union contract.
I had same line of thought that her she defending her actions with an almost by a script "I did X, the person I shot did Y, I did X, the person who I shot did Y" routine not realizing how insane that sounding describing events that weren't a police officer interacting with suspect.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 05:54 AM   #2451
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I think it was more of a Caving-under-pressure type of move. So does the head of the Dallas Police Association.

https://newsone.com/3828342/dallas-p...-michael-mata/

Quote:
According to Dallas News, Michael Mata, president of the Dallas Police Association, said on Monday that he was “perturbed” by Guyger being fired and called the decision “short-sightedness and short cuts.” He also said, “Four days ago, she said she couldn’t fire her because of the investigation, and now, four days, later you can? Just be honest with the public. There is a process in place that not only affords an officer due process but allows the department to have security if and when an officer attempts to get their job back.”
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Old 2nd October 2018, 12:08 PM   #2452
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Michael Mata, president of the Dallas Police Association, said on Monday that he was “perturbed” by Guyger being fired
Well I'm "perturbed" by the dead, unarmed, not a threat black man in his own home who the officer had no right to be in so... suck it up.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 02:03 PM   #2453
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well I'm "perturbed" by the dead, unarmed, not a threat black man in his own home who the officer had no right to be in so... suck it up.
Exactly. At best she has shown that she is a danger if she's under stress and carrying a firearm. If she is not convicted of negligent homicide at the least, then it is a pretty meaningless term.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 05:35 AM   #2454
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well I'm "perturbed" by the dead, unarmed, not a threat black man in his own home who the officer had no right to be in so... suck it up.
I'm sure he is as well, but there is a process the DPD is supposed to follow, and his perturbance at the deviation from the process, has no relation to how perturbed someone is about the death of the victim.
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Old 18th October 2018, 05:23 AM   #2455
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Dallas Police Chief consults with victim's family on whether to send case to Grand Jury.

Quote:
"We're trying to make sure justice is done," Johnson said. "I said, 'Mom do you want us to stop and go to the grand jury?' And she said 'no, keep going.'"
DPD looks to be the focus of the law suit. Says victim's family attorney:
Quote:
"A lot of the focus has been on Amber Guyger," Washington said. "There's not enough focus on the Dallas Police Department."
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...er-killing-son
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Old 18th October 2018, 04:02 PM   #2456
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The family is unhappy because Trump hasn't said anything about the killing or condemned it or whatever.

Originally Posted by Fort Worth Star-Telegram
“It rejuices the pain, but at least we know that we have a lot of people behind us,” Allison Jean said. “What we would like to see is great attention to this case by top government officials in the United States. We have heard nothing from Washington, D.C., and it really gives a feeling that some people just don’t care about lives.”...
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/l...220162465.html
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Old 18th October 2018, 04:06 PM   #2457
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The family is unhappy because Trump hasn't said anything about the killing or condemned it or whatever.



https://www.star-telegram.com/news/l...220162465.html
..."rejuices"...??
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Old 18th October 2018, 04:32 PM   #2458
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
..."rejuices"...??
Maybe that's an expression in St. Lucia where they are from.
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Old 18th October 2018, 07:38 PM   #2459
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe that's an expression in St. Lucia where they are from.

It's more likely that she said "reduces" and it's a transcription error that nobody caught. If you've ever read transcripts of events that you've actually attended, the number of small errors is surprising.
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Old 18th October 2018, 08:42 PM   #2460
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
It's more likely that she said "reduces" and it's a transcription error that nobody caught. If you've ever read transcripts of events that you've actually attended, the number of small errors is surprising.
I don't think that "reduces" works in the context of what she is saying...

Originally Posted by Fort Worth Star-Telegram
Botham Shem Jean’s killing has drawn international attention. His parents — Allison and Bertrum Jean — said on Wednesday that they’ve received support and condolences from citizens across the U.S. and countries around the world.

“It rejuices the pain, but at least we know that we have a lot of people behind us,” Allison Jean said. “What we would like to see is great attention to this case by top government officials in the United States. We have heard nothing from Washington, D.C., and it really gives a feeling that some people just don’t care about lives.”
The phrase "but at least" is used to counter something mentioned right before it. A reduction in pain is good and ought not be countered by anything. It makes me think that "rejuice" is some form of pain spiking or pain reoccurring.

I think she is saying something like, "When we get support and sympathy from all sorts of people it causes our emotional pain to show itself over again - but then at least we do know that lots of people are supporting us."
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Old 19th October 2018, 12:13 AM   #2461
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I don't think that "reduces" works in the context of what she is saying...
Disagree, it's more like there's an unspoken phrase, and an imprecisely used "but" as effectively punctuation.

“It rejuices reduces the pain, [which of course is still there] but at least we know that we have a lot of people behind us,”

Last edited by Aber; 19th October 2018 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 19th October 2018, 07:03 AM   #2462
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I don't think that "reduces" works in the context of what she is saying...
Do you recall being the first person to suggest that in a room where there had been a cop and a civilian shooting victim, that a police ballistic vest present there was going to be the victim's property?
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Old 19th October 2018, 07:21 AM   #2463
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe that's an expression in St. Lucia where they are from.
I'm guessing no .. on google the only place the phrase exits is in this thread and the article in question.
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Old 19th October 2018, 07:40 AM   #2464
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Gotta be reduces...
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Old 19th October 2018, 08:11 AM   #2465
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Maybe they have a lot of piglets on St Lucia...
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Old 19th October 2018, 08:57 AM   #2466
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I want to be surprised and disappointed that the reflection on the family's statement revolves around a peculiar phrasing and/or transcript mistake.

I want to be, but I'm not.
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Old 19th October 2018, 10:05 AM   #2467
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I want to be surprised and disappointed that the reflection on the family's statement revolves around a peculiar phrasing and/or transcript mistake.

I want to be, but I'm not.
Would you rather we examine the childishness of complaining that the president doesn't care about me?
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Old 19th October 2018, 11:02 AM   #2468
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Maybe they have a lot of piglets on St Lucia...
My god, I had no idea we could rejuice the piglets. The implications are bewildering.
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Old 19th October 2018, 11:05 AM   #2469
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Would you rather we examine the childishness of complaining that the president doesn't care about me?
I agree that commenting on the childishness of the president has enough coverage elsewhere on this forum.
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Old 19th October 2018, 11:24 AM   #2470
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"He really juiced the pain in my open wound when he sprinkled some salt on it. Then 10 minutes later he rejuiced the pain by sprinkling more salt on the wound."

One of the definitions of juice as a verb is to "liven something up".

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Old 19th October 2018, 12:53 PM   #2471
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Would you rather we examine the childishness of complaining that the president doesn't care about me?
Wanting the government to take note of your loved one's sudden, violent death at the hands of a government agent is "childish."

Got it.
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Old 20th October 2018, 01:08 PM   #2472
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Wanting the government to take note of your loved one's sudden, violent death at the hands of a government agent is "childish."

Got it.
But black families keep complaining about it over and over in disproportionate and often unarmed numbers.

It’s exhausting for all the white folk.
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Old 20th October 2018, 02:37 PM   #2473
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The family is unhappy because Trump hasn't said anything about the killing or condemned it or whatever.
By "top government officials", they almost certainly mean the Justice Department, which (before the current administration began dropping all such cases) formerly looked into and took local law enforcement agencies to task for civil rights violations.

I'm pretty sure they'd rather not hear from Trump about the killing. Or about anything else, most likely.
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Old 21st October 2018, 11:40 AM   #2474
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A general question; what is the trigger for a grand jury to be convened or do wait until the police or in this case the Texas Rangers complete their investigation?
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Old 21st October 2018, 11:53 AM   #2475
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Texas Rangers have already charged her with manslaughter and the case was referred to a grand jury over a month ago, though I don't know whether they actively taken it up yet.
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Old 21st October 2018, 03:38 PM   #2476
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Texas Rangers have already charged her with manslaughter and the case was referred to a grand jury over a month ago, though I don't know whether they actively taken it up yet.
I don’t understand the process, if she has been charged what is the purpose of a grand jury? Does a full trial take place regardless of the findings of a grand jury? Is it the grand jury or the District Attorney that decides whether a case goes to a full trial
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Old 21st October 2018, 03:47 PM   #2477
Ron Swanson
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Originally Posted by CoulsdonUK View Post
I don’t understand the process, if she has been charged what is the purpose of a grand jury?
The function of a grand jury is to accuse the person who may be guilty of an offence.

Originally Posted by CoulsdonUK View Post
a full trial take place regardless of the findings of a grand jury? Is it the grand jury or the District Attorney that decides whether a case goes to a full trial

If the (up to 23 member) grand jury find the accusation true, the foreman of the grand jury declares so in writing in public court and a trial can proceed at a later date.

If the indictment is not proven to the satisfaction of the grand jury, the foreman declares so in writing in public court, and the accusation is dismissed, as being unfounded.
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Old 21st October 2018, 03:52 PM   #2478
Delphic Oracle
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The function of a grand jury is to be something for the prosecutor to claim the decision to pursue the case or not was out of their hands.
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Old 21st October 2018, 03:59 PM   #2479
CoulsdonUK
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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
The function of a grand jury is to accuse the person who may be guilty of an offence.




If the (up to 23 member) grand jury find the accusation true, the foreman of the grand jury declares so in writing in public court and a trial can proceed at a later date.

If the indictment is not proven to the satisfaction of the grand jury, the foreman declares so in writing in public court, and the accusation is dismissed, as being unfounded.
Thanks for the explanation, so if the grand jury finds the case is not proven charges are dropped and there is no trial, right? I assume grand juries do not appear in open court, does a judge preside or gives legal guidance?
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Old 21st October 2018, 04:01 PM   #2480
CoulsdonUK
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
The function of a grand jury is to be something for the prosecutor to claim the decision to pursue the case or not was out of their hands.
Is any evidence presented to a grand jury?
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