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Tags Canada issues , Canada laws , marijuana legalization

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Old 17th October 2018, 01:14 AM   #1
AnonyMoose
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Midnight Oct 18th - Pot Is Now Legal Across Canada

Welp.... it's official folks.

As of midnight tonight, Oct 17th, marijuana is now legal to buy, grow, carry, and consume all across Canada. With the exception of Manitoba and Quebec still not allowing it to be grown (but I'm sure that won't last, someone will take it to court and fight it).

Some people lined up outside of store distributors tonight waiting for them to open at midnight so they can officially make their very first legal purchase of a product they've been consuming most of their lives.

Newfoundland was the first place to hit midnight:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cann...nd-labrador-2/

Quote:
Ian Power became one of the first people in Canada in nearly a century to own a gram of legal recreational cannabis.

The 46-year-old from St. Johnís arrived outside Canopy Growth Corp.ís Tweed store at 8:30 p.m Tuesday. By midnight, when the sale of non-medical cannabis officially became legal in Canada, he was the first of more than 130 customers lined up outside the store on Water Street downtown.

Mr. Power had waited not just hours − but years − for the chance, after more than three decades of black-market marijuana purchases.

ďI think itís one of the biggest moments of my life,Ē he said. ďThereís a tear in my eye. No more back alleys.Ē


Crazy Canucks.... there goes the neighbourhood.


Last edited by AnonyMoose; 17th October 2018 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 17th October 2018, 03:19 AM   #2
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How will this work in regards to Drug/drunk driving tests?
Is there a legal limit of THC that you can have in your blood that makes it illegal to drive like alcohol?
Will police do roadside tests for it?
I have heard that THC stays in your blood for longer leading to greater accumulations over a period of time, if this is true won't that be an issue for people even if they smoke once every few days?
What is the tax on cannabis, and will part of that go to mental health treatment/addiction clinics?
are other MJ plant products allowed or is it only the vegetable matter?
How potent are the smokes etc. That are able to be sold legally?
Is there a legal cap on the potency?
If so, will this just continue to drive demand into the more potent black market M.J products, that now will have an easier time running?

Last edited by Hungry81; 17th October 2018 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 17th October 2018, 04:01 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
How will this work in regards to Drug/drunk driving tests?
Is there a legal limit of THC that you can have in your blood that makes it illegal to drive like alcohol?
Will police do roadside tests for it?
I have heard that THC stays in your blood for longer leading to greater accumulations over a period of time, if this is true won't that be an issue for people even if they smoke once every few days?
What is the tax on cannabis, and will part of that go to mental health treatment/addiction clinics?
are other MJ plant products allowed or is it only the vegetable matter?
How potent are the smokes etc. That are able to be sold legally?
Is there a legal cap on the potency?
If so, will this just continue to drive demand into the more potent black market M.J products, that now will have an easier time running?

I personally don't know all the technical legalities and details involved with this new legislation because I'm not a participant of the stuff so I haven't taken much of an interest in it, but here's the Canadian government's website link that should answer most or all of your questions:

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/he.../cannabis.html
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Old 17th October 2018, 04:09 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
How will this work in regards to Drug/drunk driving tests?
Is there a legal limit of THC that you can have in your blood that makes it illegal to drive like alcohol?
Will police do roadside tests for it?
I have heard that THC stays in your blood for longer leading to greater accumulations over a period of time, if this is true won't that be an issue for people even if they smoke once every few days?
What is the tax on cannabis, and will part of that go to mental health treatment/addiction clinics?
are other MJ plant products allowed or is it only the vegetable matter?
How potent are the smokes etc. That are able to be sold legally?
Is there a legal cap on the potency?
If so, will this just continue to drive demand into the more potent black market M.J products, that now will have an easier time running?
Bill C46 will cover the offense of drug impaired driving in more detail with a 2ng/ml threshold for THC (summary offence) and 5ng/ml for prosecution and potential imprisonment (corresponding to the 0.08% BAC).
It will also be an offense to have a BAC of over 0.05% and a THC level of over 2.5ng/ml.

This will mean that heavy cannabis users will never be legally allowed to drive.
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Old 17th October 2018, 04:25 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Bill C46 will cover the offense of drug impaired driving in more detail with a 2ng/ml threshold for THC (summary offence) and 5ng/ml for prosecution and potential imprisonment (corresponding to the 0.08% BAC).
It will also be an offense to have a BAC of over 0.05% and a THC level of over 2.5ng/ml.

This will mean that heavy cannabis users will never be legally allowed to drive.
Has these levels been shown to lower a person's ability to drive? Should not be too hard to prove, one way or another.
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Old 17th October 2018, 04:50 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Bill C46 will cover the offense of drug impaired driving in more detail with a 2ng/ml threshold for THC (summary offence) and 5ng/ml for prosecution and potential imprisonment (corresponding to the 0.08% BAC).
It will also be an offense to have a BAC of over 0.05% and a THC level of over 2.5ng/ml.

This will mean that heavy cannabis users will never be legally allowed to drive.

I can see this being a big problem for a number of people I know who smoke regularly. The police and the courts are going to have their hands full trying to iron out all the wrinkles on this one.

... and lawyers are wringing their hands in great anticipation.
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Old 17th October 2018, 06:46 AM   #7
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Not really. Although cannabis isn't legal in the UK, there are still legal limits for driving. Over the limit, and it's the same as driving under the influence of alcohol. There's no debate on ability to drive.
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Old 17th October 2018, 06:50 AM   #8
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Pot Legal Across Canada Starting Today

Should make border crossing into the U.S. very interesting for Canadians but I bet it will be a nightmare for returning Americans!

https://globalnews.ca/news/4559085/m...nada-midnight/

Thanks, Justin!
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Old 17th October 2018, 06:53 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Not really. Although cannabis isn't legal in the UK, there are still legal limits for driving. Over the limit, and it's the same as driving under the influence of alcohol. There's no debate on ability to drive.

The difference between cannabis and alcohol though is that cannabis builds up in the system (for anyone who smokes it regularly) because it takes longer to leave the bloodstream, thus it accumulates over time if you're smoking it a couple times a week.

You can get drunk the night before, and pass a breathalyzer test the next day when you're driving to work. It doesn't work that way with pot.

You can smoke a joint, and a month later it will still be slightly detected in your urine. Ask anyone who's had to submit to regular drug tests at their place of employment.
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Old 17th October 2018, 06:57 AM   #10
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Great for people using it. Neutral for me except that I didn't see why it was illegal in the first place. It's not my role to tell people what they can put into their bodies.
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Old 17th October 2018, 06:58 AM   #11
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Marijuana is legal in Canada.

As of today it is legal in Canada to possess up to 30g (28g = 1 oz) of cannabis and cannabis products (oils, edibles).

The last time I smoked was in 2009. Before that I smoked daily for about 20 years.

I was curious to see how the pricing would compare to what I was familiar with paying.

On the official govt website, to order online, a quarter ounce costs $50.25, taxes included. At first glance that compares favorably to the typical street price of $80. However, I don't think it is low enough to eliminate the black market.

Any daily smoker who bought in bulk was likely paying in the range of $1800 to $2400 a pound for hydroponically grown, which works out to $28.13 to $37.50 a quarter once.

And Mexican compressed outdoor could be found for as little as $1100 a pound.

There's certainly room in those dealer prices for them to drop their margins to further undercut govt pricing. I had a roommate who was buying around $400,000 worth of marijuana a month. And his supplier was spending around $5,000,000 a month. I don't think they will feel threatened by the govt pricing.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


*edit to add*

I have no idea how street pricing from 10 years ago, quoted above, compares with more recent prices.
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Old 17th October 2018, 07:17 AM   #12
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We know.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=332577
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Old 17th October 2018, 07:18 AM   #13
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yep.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=332577
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Old 17th October 2018, 07:22 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Not really. Although cannabis isn't legal in the UK, there are still legal limits for driving. Over the limit, and it's the same as driving under the influence of alcohol. There's no debate on ability to drive.
Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
The difference between cannabis and alcohol though is that cannabis builds up in the system (for anyone who smokes it regularly) because it takes longer to leave the bloodstream, thus it accumulates over time if you're smoking it a couple times a week.

You can get drunk the night before, and pass a breathalyzer test the next day when you're driving to work. It doesn't work that way with pot.

You can smoke a joint, and a month later it will still be slightly detected in your urine. Ask anyone who's had to submit to regular drug tests at their place of employment.
So what. If there is a legal limit, and you're over the limit, tough luck. A slight detection will not be a problem. presumably, and I can't be bothered to check, somebody based the limit based on something.

All I was pointing out is that there IS a limit. So it's not open to interpretation.
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Old 17th October 2018, 07:50 AM   #15
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There was a reminder on the news this morning that even though pot is now legal in both Washington and BC, you can't carry it across the border either way.
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Old 17th October 2018, 07:52 AM   #16
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Finally. Now the Canada won't be so uptight about everything all the time and calm down.
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Old 17th October 2018, 08:05 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
How will this work in regards to Drug/drunk driving tests?
Is there a legal limit of THC that you can have in your blood that makes it illegal to drive like alcohol?
Will police do roadside tests for it?
Other posters have already provided info about how THC remains in the blood, and how there are legal limits, so I won't replicate that here.

There are 2 options for doing roadside tests:
- Standard field sobriety tests (things like 'walk a straight line' and 'stand on one leg')
- There is a roadside saliva test unit that the federal government has approved. However, many cities are not planning on purchasing the equipment for it, and will wait for smaller/cheaper units to be available. (However, the test is not completely accurate; it more or less provides 'probable cause' to allow the cops to bring you in to the police station for a more accurate blood test.)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...tion-1.4866106

Quote:
What is the tax on cannabis, and will part of that go to mental health treatment/addiction clinics?
I tried to find some info on the tax rate, but all I found were general statements like:
- They want taxes to be low enough to undercut the black market but high enough to keep it away from kids
- There will be a 75/25% split between the provinces and the government
- Revenue estimates vary wildly. Official numbers are around $400-600 billion/year, although some are estimating even higher numbers (in the multi-billion dollar range)

It looks like tax money from Cannibis sales will largely be filtered down to municipalities (who will claim that they are using the money for 'enforcement', although it will probably just go into general revenue.)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/...ewji-1.4862909

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/17/opini...ntl/index.html

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...abis-1.4554848
Quote:
are other MJ plant products allowed or is it only the vegetable matter?
I think it depends partly on the province. Some things will still be banned federally (such as edibles, at least until 2019)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...as-never-been/
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Old 17th October 2018, 08:25 AM   #18
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Cool for Canada.

Here in California I haven't seen or heard of any negative effects of legalization.

The retail experience still sucks, but hopefully that will improve over time.
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Old 17th October 2018, 08:54 AM   #19
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Finally. I haven't even ever smoked (anything) so I have no personal interest in it, but as a political and liberty question this is one of the biggest (easily solved) problems in (most) of the western world and I'm glad to see it finally being addressed.

Less people in jail for terrible reasons.
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Old 17th October 2018, 09:22 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
The difference between cannabis and alcohol though is that cannabis builds up in the system (for anyone who smokes it regularly) because it takes longer to leave the bloodstream, thus it accumulates over time if you're smoking it a couple times a week.

You can get drunk the night before, and pass a breathalyzer test the next day when you're driving to work. It doesn't work that way with pot.

You can smoke a joint, and a month later it will still be slightly detected in your urine. Ask anyone who's had to submit to regular drug tests at their place of employment.

You're grossly distorting the facts here, though.

What is detected up to a month after use are inert metabolites, that is, the end result of using cannabis after it has been processed by the liver for elimination.

The tests that Segasaur posted info on, in the post above this one, can detect active substances, the actual THC and active metabolites that still exist when a person is under the influence, and which are typically processed into inert metabolites within 4-6 hours.

Employers who test for cannabis are less interested in determining if their employees are actively under the influence at the time of the test, but whether they've used cannabis at all, because of the legal status of the drug, not active intoxication. That's why they depend on cheap (and highly unreliable) tests that detect inert metabolites, rather than the more expensive testing for active substances.
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Old 17th October 2018, 09:31 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
How will this work in regards to Drug/drunk driving ...
It's not a real issue cops have been dealing with drug impaired drivers for decades, they'll just keep doing their jobs.
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Old 17th October 2018, 09:42 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Cool for Canada.

Here in California I haven't seen or heard of any negative effects of legalization.

The retail experience still sucks, but hopefully that will improve over time.
In Massachusetts we're still waiting. Why does the experience suck in Cal.?
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Old 17th October 2018, 09:45 AM   #23
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At least in the States everyone's still too scared.

Let's not forget regardless of what any of the states say, pot is still illegal in the US. The Federal Government could snap their fingers and shut down the shops at any moment they wish.

So every pot shop in the US is going to be a cheap, fly by night affair. Nobody's gonna put up "Big Box Pot" until the case goes to SCOTUS.
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Old 17th October 2018, 10:54 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
At least in the States everyone's still too scared.

Let's not forget regardless of what any of the states say, pot is still illegal in the US. The Federal Government could snap their fingers and shut down the shops at any moment they wish.

So every pot shop in the US is going to be a cheap, fly by night affair. Nobody's gonna put up "Big Box Pot" until the case goes to SCOTUS.
You clearly have not been to California or Colorado. The shops are definately not cheap, fly-by-night operations.
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Old 17th October 2018, 10:58 AM   #25
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So is it legal, or is it legal to buy it from a government thugs? I hope it isn't "legal" the way it is in Hawaii.

How about just legalizing it instead
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Old 17th October 2018, 11:18 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
So is it legal, or is it legal to buy it from a government thugs? I hope it isn't "legal" the way it is in Hawaii.

How about just legalizing it instead
Depends on the location. Here in BC there are both government and private retailers, although government controls wholesale. It is legal in that, once you have it, the source of your personal supply is irrelevant. You can also grow it yourself for personal consumption. There are limits on the quantity you can possess but enforcement of that aspect will be impractical and almost non-existent.

Government website prices today, at a glance, seem to be roughly equivalent to local retail prices before legalization. I do not know if the listed prices include tax.
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Old 17th October 2018, 11:26 AM   #27
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Here in Oregon, there is a massive glut of pot
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...ss-pot-697985/
A lot of people have and will go out of business until things work themselves out.

I'm really happy to see this trend of legalization. So many good things to say about it, from regulation on how pests are controlled, to tax revenue and less angible things like having more respect for the law. Prohibition built a culture of contempt for the law.
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Old 17th October 2018, 11:39 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
You clearly have not been to California or Colorado. The shops are definately not cheap, fly-by-night operations.

Certainly not that way in Washington State either. A few shops are even expanding into small chains. I know of one that takes up two small buildings, one of which used to be a fast food restaurant (one for the cannabis itself, the other for the paraphernalia). Another that takes two entire floors of a two-story building (similar split between the cannabis and the associated equipment).

A black market still exists to some extent. It originally persisted because of the huge difference in price between the legal products and the underground market; but now with the huge drop in price for legal cannabis, it's composed mainly of producers who don't want to adhere to the state regulations on pesticides and quality control, and the expenses that incurs. It's patronized mainly by people upset that there is any government involvement in the trade, and those who are more interested in the lowest possible prices than in quality. There was an incident recently where several people had to be treated for pesticide poisoning from black-market cannabis.

Nearly everyone goes to the legal stores, because of quality control legislation that means you are far less likely to be exposed to toxic pesticides or contaminants, and potency labeling regulations that ensure you know exactly what you're getting.

ETA: There have been a few people who have gone out of business, but not because they were "fly by night" operations, but because they invested when prices were high; and were unable to weather the huge price drops. Things are stabilizing fairly well now.
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Last edited by luchog; 17th October 2018 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 17th October 2018, 11:44 AM   #29
Bob001
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Welp.... it's official folks.

As of midnight tonight, Oct 17th, marijuana is now legal to buy, grow, carry, and consume all across Canada. With the exception of Manitoba and Quebec still not allowing it to be grown (but I'm sure that won't last, someone will take it to court and fight it).
....
Just curious, how was the effective date determined? In the U.S., new laws often take effect on the Jan. 1 or July 1 after they are passed, to give authorities and citizens time to prepare for the changes. What's special about Oct. 17?
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Old 17th October 2018, 12:01 PM   #30
Molinaro
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Just curious, how was the effective date determined? In the U.S., new laws often take effect on the Jan. 1 or July 1 after they are passed, to give authorities and citizens time to prepare for the changes. What's special about Oct. 17?
Nothing special about the date. It is just the date they saw as when they would be ready for the new law to go into effect.
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Old 17th October 2018, 12:03 PM   #31
Ron Swanson
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Depends on the location. Here in BC there are both government and private retailers, although government controls wholesale. It is legal in that, once you have it, the source of your personal supply is irrelevant. You can also grow it yourself for personal consumption. There are limits on the quantity you can possess but enforcement of that aspect will be impractical and almost non-existent.

Government website prices today, at a glance, seem to be roughly equivalent to local retail prices before legalization. I do not know if the listed prices include tax.
Actually in BC there is NO limit regarding at home possession ... you can walk around with 30 grams and you CAN "share" up to 30 grams with anyone else of 19 years of age
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Old 17th October 2018, 12:12 PM   #32
CORed
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Cool for Canada.

Here in California I haven't seen or heard of any negative effects of legalization.

The retail experience still sucks, but hopefully that will improve over time.
Same for Colorado. Most of the problem with the retail experience is a result federal regulations: Most banks won't have anything to do with marijuana businesses, which means they have to operate on a strictly cash basis, so you can't use credit cards or checks for purchase.

ETA: I wouldn't really say that the retail experience sucks in Colorado, apart from the "cash only" aspect.

Last edited by CORed; 17th October 2018 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 17th October 2018, 12:15 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Finally. Now the Canada won't be so uptight about everything all the time and calm down.
In other words, Canada will now go from mellow to damn near comatose.
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Old 17th October 2018, 12:24 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Molinaro View Post
Nothing special about the date. It is just the date they saw as when they would be ready for the new law to go into effect.
It was in part chosen to honour the late Gord Downie, a proponent of legal weed, on the one year anniversary of his death. Trudeau was a huge fan of his.
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Old 17th October 2018, 12:36 PM   #35
CORed
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Certainly not that way in Washington State either. A few shops are even expanding into small chains. I know of one that takes up two small buildings, one of which used to be a fast food restaurant (one for the cannabis itself, the other for the paraphernalia). Another that takes two entire floors of a two-story building (similar split between the cannabis and the associated equipment).

A black market still exists to some extent. It originally persisted because of the huge difference in price between the legal products and the underground market; but now with the huge drop in price for legal cannabis, it's composed mainly of producers who don't want to adhere to the state regulations on pesticides and quality control, and the expenses that incurs. It's patronized mainly by people upset that there is any government involvement in the trade, and those who are more interested in the lowest possible prices than in quality. There was an incident recently where several people had to be treated for pesticide poisoning from black-market cannabis.

Nearly everyone goes to the legal stores, because of quality control legislation that means you are far less likely to be exposed to toxic pesticides or contaminants, and potency labeling regulations that ensure you know exactly what you're getting.

ETA: There have been a few people who have gone out of business, but not because they were "fly by night" operations, but because they invested when prices were high; and were unable to weather the huge price drops. Things are stabilizing fairly well now.
To me the convenience factor alone is reason enough to stay with legal stores. With illegal pot, first you have to find somebody who's selling. Depending on how many people in your social network use or sell, this might take some time. The only other option is to try to find street dealers, which is generally a good way to get ripped off, and usually means going into a sketchy neighborhood. With legal pot, you just go to the store and buy it.
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Old 17th October 2018, 05:43 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
At least in the States everyone's still too scared.

Let's not forget regardless of what any of the states say, pot is still illegal in the US. The Federal Government could snap their fingers and shut down the shops at any moment they wish.

So every pot shop in the US is going to be a cheap, fly by night affair. Nobody's gonna put up "Big Box Pot" until the case goes to SCOTUS.
Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
You clearly have not been to California or Colorado. The shops are definately not cheap, fly-by-night operations.
Or Washington. They have big signs and flashing lights and everything.

Note also that the Republicans have had control of the Department of Justice since January of 2017 and done nothing. Do you suppose they actually do believe in state's rights?
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Old 17th October 2018, 09:51 PM   #37
citizenzen
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
In Massachusetts we're still waiting. Why does the experience suck in Cal.?

You have to wait for a salesperson to serve you.

Products are behind a counter.

You canít shop and compare products at your leisure.
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Old 18th October 2018, 12:53 AM   #38
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You want free samples?
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Old 18th October 2018, 06:49 AM   #39
citizenzen
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You want free samples?

I want products that are available for me to browse and compare. I donít like the pressure of having a line of customers wait for me to complete my transaction before they can begin to shop for theirs.
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Old 18th October 2018, 07:22 AM   #40
luchog
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Or Washington. They have big signs and flashing lights and everything.

Big huge billboards all around town. They've definitely become a part of mainstream business here.

Quote:
Note also that the Republicans have had control of the Department of Justice since January of 2017 and done nothing. Do you suppose they actually do believe in state's rights?

No, but they're not willing to test it right now. Sessions already insisted that he would oppose legalization; but the states that have legalized have also become very fond of the huge spike in tax revenue that resulted, and have vowed to stringently opposed any attempts at re-criminalization by the federal government, including lawsuits. The GOP clearly does not want this tested in the courts, given how other opposition to their legislation has fared recently.

And I'm fairly certain more than a handful of them are looking at the situation and trying to decide how they can profit off of it.

Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
You have to wait for a salesperson to serve you.

Products are behind a counter.

You canít shop and compare products at your leisure.

Products are behind counters here too, but they are also available to view in big display cases, and most shops have product lists printed with details on cannabinoid content and potency, as well as other characteristics. And shop staff are generally very helpful in discussing the differences between the various products.
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