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Tags mediums , psychics

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Old 14th November 2019, 11:54 AM   #121
Pixel42
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Why on earth did he not just continue to post as Ricardo? It's not like Ricardo had been banned.
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Old 14th November 2019, 11:54 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
He was a sock.
Didn’t see that coming at all...
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Old 14th November 2019, 11:54 AM   #123
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After a certain point I don't consider replying even jokingly to one such as the OP when they demonstrate such lack of willingness to learn. Hats off to those who try to seriously engage -- It can at least be helpful to other fence-sitters that read the site. I doubt in a case like this I could maintain civility.

But ban-worthy posters usually out themselves pretty early on.
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Old 14th November 2019, 12:32 PM   #124
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Geez, a sock w/ a fish story.
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Old 14th November 2019, 01:17 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Why on earth did he not just continue to post as Ricardo? It's not like Ricardo had been banned.
I was wondering about that. Should he not be banned for using a sock?
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Old 14th November 2019, 01:28 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I was wondering about that. Should he not be banned for using a sock?
But...without socks he might get cold feet
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Old 14th November 2019, 01:38 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
If evidence recorded in books is not allowed in this forum, then it is best not to continue. I have books with a lot of evidence.

"Cris" is gone, and the thread's probably at its end, but as for this thing about books: There's a type of people that tends to generally accept things written in "books". (I guess the online version of this ... tendency, is to (tend to) accept things if only one can supply a link that bears out those things.)

For someone of this kind, seeing things printed in a book may well qualify as strong evidence. It could be that's where "Cris" was coming from.


ETA: Where he was coming from as far as just the books thing, I mean.

Last edited by Chanakya; 14th November 2019 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 14th November 2019, 01:46 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Why on earth did he not just continue to post as Ricardo? It's not like Ricardo had been banned.
Ricardo admitted to lying about his previous claims of the supernatural. It was the same stunt that Cris pulled: tell a story that's seemingly impossible to explain, but so bereft of detail and opportunities for inspection that it will be forever vague. So as soon as Ricardo tried to tell another story in another meaningless round of Stump the Skeptics, his critics would rightly have reminded him that he is a hard-core believer in spirits, to the point where we know he'll lie about whatever story he's telling. He needed the alter ago Cris to throw his critics off guard.
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Old 14th November 2019, 01:51 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Ricardo admitted to lying about his previous claims of the supernatural. It was the same stunt that Cris pulled: tell a story that's seemingly impossible to explain, but so bereft of detail and opportunities for inspection that it will be forever vague. So as soon as Ricardo tried to tell another story in another meaningless round of Stump the Skeptics, his critics would rightly have reminded him that he is a hard-core believer in spirits, to the point where we know he'll lie about whatever story he's telling. He needed the alter ago Cris to throw his critics off guard.
And he would have gotten away with it, too, if weren't for . . . . nevermind, he wasn't getting anywhere.
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Old 14th November 2019, 01:56 PM   #130
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Did I miss something, why was this guy banned? Was he a troll?
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Old 14th November 2019, 01:57 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Why on earth did he not just continue to post as Ricardo? It's not like Ricardo had been banned.

The thread wasn't going how he expected, I guess. Had things gone differently, "Ricardo" may have come in at some opportune moment with some support that just might have turned the course of the thread. That may well have been the broad idea.

I'm just guessing, of course, but this sort of thing's common enough online. Nor is it limited to rogue posters: in a blog, for instance, the blog owner themselves may well employ socks to drum up support, and get a momentum going.

The whole set of rules on here, the MA thing, they do seem kind of ridiculous at first glance -- I know that was my first reaction, I mean, are you serious, all these MA clauses that everyone keeps "rule-lawyering" about endlessly? -- but it's these rules, and the mods, that kind of sets this place apart.

Using socks to create the illusion of support for one's views, that's very common online.
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Old 14th November 2019, 01:57 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
what is wooster?
A rooster with a listh.
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Old 14th November 2019, 01:59 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Using socks to create the illusion of support for one's views, that's very common online.
And in real life, especially in modern politics. JayNevada and JayWyoming concur.
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Old 14th November 2019, 02:09 PM   #134
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I have a few woo-ish books purchased for near nothing.

The written and printed word needs to be evaluated as evidence or droppings equally as the spoken word.

Brazil is a very religious and spiritual country yet, No doubt his whole life is immersed in what we call woo.
That makes it easy to feel like you personally are under attack when reading here.
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Old 14th November 2019, 02:11 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
Did I miss something, why was this guy banned? Was he a troll?
Sock.
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Old 14th November 2019, 02:14 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
And in real life, especially in modern politics.

Absolutely, especially in politics.


Quote:
JayNevada and JayWyoming concur.

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Old 14th November 2019, 02:28 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
All you can't explain is invention.
stop generalizing.
admit that you cannot explain this fact.
You can't call it a fact. Because you cannot know if it was true. Because, by your own admission, you have no way to verify the story: You don't know if the likeness of the daughter was true. In fact, you don't even know if the daughter even ever existed.

Hans
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Old 14th November 2019, 02:37 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
You can't call it a fact. Because you cannot know if it was true. Because, by your own admission, you have no way to verify the story: You don't know if the likeness of the daughter was true. In fact, you don't even know if the daughter even ever existed.

Hans
Keep up mate, we don't even know Cris ever existed.
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Old 14th November 2019, 02:44 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Why on earth did he not just continue to post as Ricardo? It's not like Ricardo had been banned.

As a mod:

Ricardo asked to be deregistered, and such wish was granted. Had he asked to rejoin as Ricardo, that would have been allowed. Since he rejoined as a "new" member, he was a sock puppet - bannable offense.

Now, it has happened that some long-ago poster has tried to log on and forgotten his or her password or even exact username. Some have joined under a new name, but then immediately contacted the mods with their story of woe. In those cases, we merge the accounts and let the poster choose whichever name he/she prefers.

In fact, you can change your username at any time with a simple request to the Admins. You'll need to add a signature saying, "Previously known as Member X," but that's the whole process.

If there are any further comments on moderation, let's bring them over to FMF and not pollute a "substantive" thread.
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Old 14th November 2019, 03:37 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
A rooster with a listh.
A lithp ith when you can't pronounth the "eth" thound.

What you are wefewwing to is called a Wotacism.
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Old 14th November 2019, 04:09 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
A lithp ith when you can't pronounth the "eth" thound.

What you are wefewwing to is called a Wotacism.
I think from now on that's going to be called the "Bawwy Kwipke".
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Old 14th November 2019, 06:07 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I think from now on that's going to be called the "Bawwy Kwipke".
Terry Pratchett suffered from rhotacism and he always said it was ironic that he couldn't even pronounce his own name properly.
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Old 14th November 2019, 06:41 PM   #143
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I don't understand this game. Why register on a Skeptic's board to advance a woo belief without even trying to make a credible defense of those beliefs.

I don't walk into Hell's Angles bars planning to talk smack, especially without some kind of backup and plan.
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Old 14th November 2019, 07:04 PM   #144
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What I suspect, I may be wrong.
The belief in the individual to whatever idea is so strong nothing can even reach them. They find a place like this that disagrees or ridicules the idea or something similar, we must be set straight.

The belief is the proof, god said so, it's impossible to ever be wrong. It's the non believers that always will be wrong.

Even if they can provide evidence and repeatable proof of something contrary. Just brush it away if it causes discomfort.
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Old 14th November 2019, 08:03 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
A lithp ith when you can't pronounth the "eth" thound.

What you are wefewwing to is called a Wotacism.
Thanks. I've learned a new fact today! (For all the good it will do me.)
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Old 14th November 2019, 08:04 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Thanks. I've learned a new fact today! (For all the good it will do me.)
Happy to make you one of today's 10,000.
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Old 14th November 2019, 08:36 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I don't understand this game. Why register on a Skeptic's board to advance a woo belief without even trying to make a credible defense of those beliefs.
The banned poster is a Brazilian "Crystal Energy Healer" who is going through a family separation matter. He used earlier forum name variations elsewhere to threaten people using "dark crystal energy forces" on social media. Somehow, he confused normal legal evidence and the evidence used by skeptics and thus started posting against skeptics. (It doesn't have to follow logic to mad people) This coincided with the broadcast of a television movie, in Brazil, on the 19th Century spiritualist Kardec, who promoted spiritualism.

I came across this story randomly and have no vested interest.
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Old 14th November 2019, 10:40 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
Somehow, he confused normal legal evidence and the evidence used by skeptics and thus started posting against skeptics.

The contents of a book would hardly be legal evidence of whatever's asserted in the book. It's evidence that the book exists and has those words in it. It might be evidence that the book was consulted by some proposed expert on some matter. Otherwise, it's hearsay. You'd need the book's author to cross-examine.

Some older books might be considered ancient documents which gets them around some of the authentication and hearsay problems. You've still got the problem of relevance. How a copy of "Neuromancer" would be relevant to any suit capable of being heard today is beyond me.*

I guess if one side puts up a purported expert in Artificial Intelligence and that person's sole training in the field came from reading William Gibson novels, you could get it in to impeach the witness. Otherwise, I'm stumped.

*A suit regarding the rights to the book would get it into evidence. I'll call Bill Gibson tomorrow to find out if he has the copyright locked up.
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Old 14th November 2019, 11:03 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
The contents of a book would hardly be legal evidence of whatever's asserted in the book.
I don't think the banned forum member had, or has, any concept what evidence is. I think the banned forum member had legal evidence presented against him in court, lost his case and somehow decided that as skeptics don't like spirits and like evidence, that he would troll skeptic forums.

I think the banned forum member had......issues, and we were simply swept up in his wake.
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Old 15th November 2019, 03:10 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I think from now on that's going to be called the "Bawwy Kwipke".
Nah, it's a high Ranking Roman accent (I was going to write it with 'w's but that would probably got me a yellow card).
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Old 15th November 2019, 05:23 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
I don't think the banned forum member had, or has, any concept what evidence is. I think the banned forum member had legal evidence presented against him in court, lost his case and somehow decided that as skeptics don't like spirits and like evidence, that he would troll skeptic forums.

I think the banned forum member had......issues, and we were simply swept up in his wake.

Very likely.
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Old 15th November 2019, 07:30 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
A lithp ith when you can't pronounth the "eth" thound.

What you are wefewwing to is called a Wotacism.

A man standing on the street is approached by a massive man, over 6 feet tall, 300 pounds, bulging with muscles.
"Excuse me, I'm afwaid I'm lost. Can you give me diwections to Wolling Wock Lane?"
The man just looks at him, refusing to say anything.
"I said, can you please tell me how to get to Wolling Wock Lane?"
The man continues to not answer, and the huge man gets frustrated, walks away, and asks a nearby police office for directions. The officer, curious, approaches the smaller man afterward.
"Hey buddy, why wouldn't you give that guy directions?"
"Are you cwazy officer? If I had told him how to get to Wolling Wock Lane, he would have wipped me limb fwom limb."


(The version I originally heard combines this with Lamdacism, so it was "Wolling Wock Wane" and "wipped me wimb fwom wimb".)

Last edited by Armitage72; 15th November 2019 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 15th November 2019, 07:30 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
He used earlier forum name variations elsewhere to threaten people using "dark crystal energy forces" on social media.
Both his egos here did seem to have that lashing-out quality. Unlike our other resident spiritualists, he claimed spirits could cause people harm and did so regularly. The story he tripped up on during his previous visit argued that he was being vexed by an evil spirit at the same time every day.

And no, I don't think he has the slightest clue what evidence actually is -- in a legal, scientific, or any practical sense.

Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
The contents of a book would hardly be legal evidence of whatever's asserted in the book.
Yay, here's the part where Loss Leader bludgeons me with the dark crystal magic of Rule 803. Too little caffeine in my system yet to have much to say, thankfully.

No, I highly doubt the kinds of books I'm sure he was prepared to cite would not be considered evidence of the fact of matters reported in them or the strength of the conclusions of their authors. Properly certified by rule, they would be, as you say, evidence only that the book contains words.

Quote:
It might be evidence that the book was consulted by some proposed expert on some matter.
Alluding to Rule 803(6)(d), I have a custodian of records that collects records kept for some of our daily activity on certain contracts. She requires us to keep the records in a certain form and to surrender them to her according to a curation and retention policy. That is still only evidence in a limited sense. It believe it would be material in such actions as for patent infringement. Not really the sort of book Cris was talking about.

But more to the point, there are references common in every field that might qualify under section 17 of the rule. Say, the Schaum's handbook, if you deal regularly with mathematics. But even then you might need an expert witness, depending on how you wanted to use the information as evidence. In any case, not the kind of book likely referred to.

Someone did ask for evidence of the daughter's existence and, if I recall correctly, of her death. Sections 9 and 11 would seem to apply, and the poster could have presented evidence from, say, a parish register and it would seem to me to qualify as an exception to the hearsay rule. But I don't think that was the kind of book he had in mind.

Section 13 refers to inscriptions on a ring. I assume that would just be Tolkien evidence.

Quote:
I guess if one side puts up a purported expert in Artificial Intelligence and that person's sole training in the field came from reading William Gibson novels, you could get it in to impeach the witness. Otherwise, I'm stumped.
Yeah, I guess you could delve into the contents of the book, but it would seem more straightforward to qualify a computer science expert as an adverse witness to testify that Gibson novels do not create a proper foundation of understanding. Am I on the right track? They certainly don't qualify as learned treatises, if that matters.
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Old 15th November 2019, 08:49 AM   #154
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3 possibilities
1. Fraud, the medium new what the girl looked like.
2. Fraud, the medium drew a passable drawing of a girl based on the parents appearance.
3. Something I haven't though of.
Meh, nevermind.

Last edited by ahhell; 15th November 2019 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 15th November 2019, 09:50 AM   #155
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I find it hard to believe the medium drew a recognizable portrait. It seems like that would be the more lucrative talent. I would definitely want to see the drawing and at least one photograph of the daughter, so that I can draw my own conclusion about the likeness. If the drawing is amateur fridge-fodder, then a number of hypotheses leap into focus. First, the "father" was a plant.

Second, the whole scenario relied on generality and indirection. Indirection would be the notion that the medium draws a picture rather than more directly recounts the deceased's features or characteristics. Mediumship often wants to put some sort of gimmick between the alleged spirit and the result. The ambiguity or limitations imposed by the gimmick then become leeway that favors the medium. Generality is sufficiently self-explanatory. "I'm picking up something ... a name ... starts with a vowel, or maybe a consonant." You see how easy that is, and the rubes rarely seem to see this at work.

Also, it's astonishing how differently the client remembers the experience compared to an objective record. One of the most common ways to achieve this is to throw out a general question, such as "Who is Ed? Or Eddie, or Edward?" Someone in the audience will say, 'I had an uncle named Ed." Later that audience member is apt to report that the medium "knew" the uncle's name without being told. So in this case I can see the medium drawing a picture of some random girl and asking, "Who's daughter or sister or mother is this?" And some eager father "confirms" that it's his recently-departed daughter. And everyone "remembers" that the medium guessed this without a prompt.
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Old 15th November 2019, 10:29 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
It's Jupiter in the film, Saturn in the book.
The thing is, the reason why they did Jupiter is because Kubrick wasn't satisfied with the model of Saturn they'd come up with. He thought it didn't look realistic. Flash forward a few years later, and actually Saturn looks exactly like the model did.
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Old 15th November 2019, 10:36 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
The thing is, the reason why they did Jupiter is because Kubrick wasn't satisfied with the model of Saturn they'd come up with. He thought it didn't look realistic. Flash forward a few years later, and actually Saturn looks exactly like the model did.
I could make such a conspiracy theory out of this.
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Old 15th November 2019, 10:59 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
I find it hard to believe the medium drew a recognizable portrait. It seems like that would be the more lucrative talent. I would definitely want to see the drawing and at least one photograph of the daughter, so that I can draw my own conclusion about the likeness. If the drawing is amateur fridge-fodder, then a number of hypotheses leap into focus. First, the "father" was a plant.

Second, the whole scenario relied on generality and indirection. Indirection would be the notion that the medium draws a picture rather than more directly recounts the deceased's features or characteristics. Mediumship often wants to put some sort of gimmick between the alleged spirit and the result. The ambiguity or limitations imposed by the gimmick then become leeway that favors the medium. Generality is sufficiently self-explanatory. "I'm picking up something ... a name ... starts with a vowel, or maybe a consonant." You see how easy that is, and the rubes rarely seem to see this at work.

Also, it's astonishing how differently the client remembers the experience compared to an objective record. One of the most common ways to achieve this is to throw out a general question, such as "Who is Ed? Or Eddie, or Edward?" Someone in the audience will say, 'I had an uncle named Ed." Later that audience member is apt to report that the medium "knew" the uncle's name without being told. So in this case I can see the medium drawing a picture of some random girl and asking, "Who's daughter or sister or mother is this?" And some eager father "confirms" that it's his recently-departed daughter. And everyone "remembers" that the medium guessed this without a prompt.
If the artist used faces in his crowd to get features for his drawing he could easily make a family resemblance of several. A house party seance will be family and friends so the pool is smaller.

A better hit or a complete miss, that a plant could cover.

There are a lot of frustrated barstool artists out there trying to make rent. I knew several over time.

Last edited by 8enotto; 15th November 2019 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 15th November 2019, 11:08 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
The banned poster is a Brazilian "Crystal Energy Healer" who is going through a family separation matter. He used earlier forum name variations elsewhere to threaten people using "dark crystal energy forces" on social media. Somehow, he confused normal legal evidence and the evidence used by skeptics and thus started posting against skeptics. (It doesn't have to follow logic to mad people) This coincided with the broadcast of a television movie, in Brazil, on the 19th Century spiritualist Kardec, who promoted spiritualism.

I came across this story randomly and have no vested interest.
That's just embarrassing.

Sounds like someone successfully proved he's a fraud and he has an ax to grind with the pesky science that brought him down.

We're talking about a guy who doesn't know the difference between a spirit and a ghost, and I don't buy the language barrier either. That knowledge is Woo-101. You'd think he'd take advantage of this forum to engage in an honest debate to, at the very least, understand the weakest parts of his argument and avoid them in later debates. We see this down in the conspiracy theory board where CTists focus on a narrow band of a conspiracy theory to attempt to prove their point while avoiding the whole picture which leads to the theory falling apart.
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Old 15th November 2019, 12:13 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
who cares?
He who smelt it dealt it, so you do.
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