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Old 7th April 2021, 05:23 PM   #121
Venom
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Your mistake is to go by skin colour. The reparations should be intended for those with a slave ancestry. Recent arrivals should not qualify and there would also be the indentured southern Whites, the victims of bonded labour wherein they had to work seven years for one master for free before they could claim a wage and freedom to move on. These would be those transported as criminals or political dissidents, such as the Levellers or King Charles II supporters. Can't just look at someone and be able to tell.
As I mentioned in my first post here you run into a lot of issues with ancestry. If actual reparations for slavery had to be given out, I think it would have been easier in 1921, as the direct descendants of slaves, as well as a sizeable number of former slaves, were still alive. Black-white relationships were far less common and people "stuck to their kind" a bit more.
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Old 7th April 2021, 06:18 PM   #122
TellyKNeasuss
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Originally Posted by Beeyon View Post
So there's about 6 non-black people in the US for every black person. So, on average, non-black people would each be paying about one sixth their net worth. That's not outrageously bad. It doesn't have to look like "millions to rich people of color", as it can be easily framed as a small fraction of net worth from one neighbor to another, to right the wrongs of the past.
Actually, it's about 7 non-Blacks per Black. But 30% of those are Hispanic, Asian, or Native American/Pacific Islander. Should they have to contribute to reparations? If not, then the average burden would be 21%.

I would have a huge problem if a system of every white, or every non-Black, giving X percent of their wealth was chosen. Wealth increases steeply with age - the median net worth in the 70-74 age range is almost 3 times the net worth in the 35-44 age range - not because older people have necessarily had higher incomes but because they've had more years to build up retirement savings and to pay down their mortgages. This means that the bulk of the reparations would be paid for by older people even if over the course of their lifetimes they aren't more affluent than younger people. 20-somethings working in high-paying fields have little wealth and would pay almost nothing.

If equalizing net worth is the goal, whose net worth do you equalize, given that some of the composite differences are due to demographic and lifestyle differences?
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Old 7th April 2021, 06:32 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
If your skin is so light that you've never been considered black then you've probably never been directly discriminated against either. Gonna have to break out the color scale - no cash for you!
You don't think so? His father was a man of color and was discriminated against. Couldn't get a job that paid well, couldn't take out a mortgage because of redlining. His siblings all were easily identifiable as people of color. He grew up in black neighborhood and attended a black school. The point is he received no inheritance unlike whites who had estates to build on.
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Old 8th April 2021, 06:12 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
If your skin is so light that you've never been considered black then you've probably never been directly discriminated against either. Gonna have to break out the color scale - no cash for you!
What makes you so sure of this? Yes, there are people who "pass", who actively divorce themselves from their own families in order to "blend in as white", as adults. But we've already seen studies that show major divestment not just from individuals, but from entire towns and neighborhoods, based on racism. A kid that could "pass", but still attended a segregated and poorly funded school, was still discriminated against. Same for pollution, for internet access, for job networking, and on and on.

And frankly, you should see many of the people that counted as black/colored/negro in US reckoning, up to and including many people who brought lawsuits, such as Homer Plessy.

(Again, a large part of the problem is that the government has proven unwilling to so much as consider what forms reparations should take.)

Quote:
Handing out cash won't turn racists into loving people so what's the point? You're still a black person living in white America. I'd take the cash and leave.
Nah, let the racists leave, the US is our country far more than most of theirs.
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Old 12th April 2021, 02:14 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Olmstead View Post
"We need to do something about the systemic racism in America!"

"Shut up, we've solved the racism problem with monetary reparations years ago. Move on."
That's exactly my objection to reparations. It makes it possible for the government, even for people in general, to stop trying to be better. Once that debt it paid, oh well, move on.
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Old 12th April 2021, 02:42 PM   #126
mgidm86
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
What makes you so sure of this? Yes, there are people who "pass", who actively divorce themselves from their own families in order to "blend in as white", as adults. But we've already seen studies that show major divestment not just from individuals, but from entire towns and neighborhoods, based on racism. A kid that could "pass", but still attended a segregated and poorly funded school, was still discriminated against. Same for pollution, for internet access, for job networking, and on and on.

And frankly, you should see many of the people that counted as black/colored/negro in US reckoning, up to and including many people who brought lawsuits, such as Homer Plessy.

(Again, a large part of the problem is that the government has proven unwilling to so much as consider what forms reparations should take.)



Nah, let the racists leave, the US is our country far more than most of theirs.

It was a joke you guys. The whole idea is stupid. Twenty trillion paid out to individuals will not help race relations in this country in any way. It may make them worse though. Why is anyone taking this seriously?

On the reparations issue in general, I'm against handing out money. We don't know who should get it, how much, and if it will help anybody at all.

I am for using money to help race relations in some way.

If it can be shown to me that individual payments are a good idea then I will go along with it. So far I'm not seeing any evidence of that.
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