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Old 10th April 2021, 09:07 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Nice slip.
It's a popular tech support jargon.

Goes along with a device called a LART, "Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool", which is usually a blunt object that one fantasizes about applying to the heads of problem clients.
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Old 10th April 2021, 09:38 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
It's a popular tech support jargon.

Goes along with a device called a LART, "Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool", which is usually a blunt object that one fantasizes about applying to the heads of problem clients.
In HP, there was even a part number for that object. There was a length of 2x4 (or similar) wood that was used in packing some early disk drives, and would be ideally suited for use as an attitude adjuster.
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Old 10th April 2021, 10:06 AM   #163
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My philosophy of "work" is simple:

Get paid less than your bosses perceive you are worth.

Lots of things then follow. You have more flexibility to alter your job and make it more enjoyable, flexible, and productive. The latter increases your value which leads to raises while retaining and possibly increasing the differential between what the employer pays for you and the value the employer derives.

Worked for me. Never asked for a raise but got lots of them. Sometimes went against my boss when I believed I had a better and cheaper approach. This either gets you fired or promoted. Either way you are better off. At least if you're right. Companies that don't encourage and nourish employees who advance their ideas are going to be left behind. As are companies that don't keep the management structure from stifling progress. The latter can be quite hard. Especially as companies grow.
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Old 10th April 2021, 11:31 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
It's a popular tech support jargon.

Goes along with a device called a LART, "Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool", which is usually a blunt object that one fantasizes about applying to the heads of problem clients.

That’s funny...I will now think of a DART as a doctor attitude readjustment tool, which I fantasize about peppering arrogant doctors with.
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Old 11th April 2021, 05:43 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Lol, yes that's true. Some of the most valuable people in an organization are the folks who can translate IT speak to laypeople speak. I completely understand that - actuaries usually need translators too
I have a friend who did that for a while. He described his job as "nerd liaison" - translating from ITese to Corporatish.
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Old 11th April 2021, 11:57 PM   #166
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i think it is not same for all of us but most of them are effected by this.
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Old 12th April 2021, 12:31 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Would you believe I debated with myself for a good two minutes about what term to use there?
I was about to have a snarky reply to this, luckily I went to the next page to see this:

Originally Posted by gnome View Post
It's a popular tech support jargon.

Goes along with a device called a LART, "Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool", which is usually a blunt object that one fantasizes about applying to the heads of problem clients.
Well, I learned something new today. Thanks to both of you.

And reinforced the lesson about read the thread before replying.
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Old 12th April 2021, 06:05 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Plus if anything goes wrong with your own business. Power outage. Server crash. Water main breaks. If your own office has a problem, you don't get to wait until Monday morning to see about it. Your employees, maybe. But you're the owner. It's your livelihood on the line.
This actually happened to me a couple of years after starting my small business. My partner and I got a call at 3am from the security guards at the building that a pipe had burst. We spent the night cleaning things up and then by the time it was done it was 6 am and time for me to open up. Back then I was there most of the day and closed at 9:30pm (these days I have a much more relaxed schedule).

I will admit that I did get annoyed when potential customers would call me at midnight, but eventually I started turning my phone to silent when I went to sleep at night.
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Old 12th April 2021, 06:47 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I was about to have a snarky reply to this, luckily I went to the next page to see this:



Well, I learned something new today. Thanks to both of you.

And reinforced the lesson about read the thread before replying.
I should stipulate, for values of "new" that include trendy language on alt.tech.support.recovery back in UseNet days. I honestly have no idea if the same terms are popular among support reps today.
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Old 12th April 2021, 08:22 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I have a friend who did that for a while. He described his job as "nerd liaison" - translating from ITese to Corporatish.
In the retail sector this is known as "consumer compatible liveware".
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Old 12th April 2021, 08:42 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
In the retail sector this is known as "consumer compatible liveware".
His actual job title was "Business Analyst", which is about as vague as they come.
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Old 13th April 2021, 02:02 AM   #172
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Ministers urged to give UK home-workers a ‘right to disconnect’
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Old 13th April 2021, 02:08 AM   #173
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Ministers, eh? I guess the COE really does run things. : )

More seriously, don't UK workers already have that right?
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Old 13th April 2021, 03:42 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Ministers, eh? I guess the COE really does run things. : )

More seriously, don't UK workers already have that right?
No.

Do they in the USA?

There is nothing stopping a company from sending an email at say 9pm when someone’s working hours are 9am to 6pm.
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Old 13th April 2021, 06:04 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post

There is nothing stopping a company from sending an email at say 9pm when someone’s working hours are 9am to 6pm.
Not sure what that has to do with anything. It's only an issue if you're expected to check your email outside working hours. Email is an asynchronous means of communication, it doesn't require the recipient to be there when you send it.
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Old 13th April 2021, 06:24 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Not sure what that has to do with anything. It's only an issue if you're expected to check your email outside working hours. Email is an asynchronous means of communication, it doesn't require the recipient to be there when you send it.
Because that is what this is about. Most people these days will have their work email on their personal device(s) so when that email is sent out at 9pm it intrudes into their non-working time, and most people find it very hard to not check it. Campaigners want there to be cut off times, blocked times and so on for such communications.
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Old 13th April 2021, 06:37 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Because that is what this is about. Most people these days will have their work email on their personal device(s) so when that email is sent out at 9pm it intrudes into their non-working time, and most people find it very hard to not check it. Campaigners want there to be cut off times, blocked times and so on for such communications.
I've been fortunate so far that the industry I work in has very strong instincts of keeping their IP a trade secret, so having easy access to work emails from personal devices is something that is generally not the norm strictly from a data security standpoint.
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Old 13th April 2021, 07:19 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
No.

Do they in the USA?
Yes.

Quote:
There is nothing stopping a company from sending an email at say 9pm when someone’s working hours are 9am to 6pm.
So? There's nothing requiring me to keep checking email after 6pm.

Most of the people still checking email outside of "working hours" are in salaried positions without fixed working hours anyway. They're all grown-ass adults. They can put away the laptop or turn off their phone if they want.

Email is asynchronous anyway. They'll be coming in at all hours, with no other expectation than that they'll be read and acted on during the recipient's next working shift. I'm checking my overnights right now. Europe, China... all on 8 blessed hours of sleep.

What are the ministers supposed to do? Stop someone from the night shift sending in their report for the manager to read when they come in the next day? Stop someone in the Singapore office from sending email to the UK office overnight? What are they supposed to do? Wait until morning? What about their right to disconnect?
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Old 13th April 2021, 07:21 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Because that is what this is about. Most people these days will have their work email on their personal device(s) so when that email is sent out at 9pm it intrudes into their non-working time, and most people find it very hard to not check it. Campaigners want there to be cut off times, blocked times and so on for such communications.
How infantilizing. The campaigners should inquire with their local BDSM community, whether there are any subs that are into diaper play, if that's their fetish. Keep the bedroom out of the government.
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Old 13th April 2021, 07:39 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yes.
Can you give some examples - love to see if my local MP is aware of such legislation - she often speaks of what you do better in the USA (she is American).

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post

So? There's nothing requiring me to keep checking email after 6pm.
That’s correct.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post

Most of the people still checking email outside of "working hours" are in salaried positions without fixed working hours anyway. …snip…
Not in the UK. Whether you work for Tesco as a till operator or a Director at Barclays you will be expected to be able to access work email and most people won’t have a dedicated device provided by work they can switch off when not working.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post

What are the ministers supposed to do? Stop someone from the night shift sending in their report for the manager to read when they come in the next day? Stop someone in the Singapore office from sending email to the UK office overnight? What are they supposed to do? Wait until morning? What about their right to disconnect?
From what I understand (from the campaigners I’ve heard) they want no emails to be sent to you outside your work hours so you won’t get any notifications outside your work hours - one assumes they do accept that there may be times when an out of hours email may be appropriate “Please don’t come into work tomorrow - the store fell into a 100 foot sinkhole”.

I actually think the campaigners have a good idea, I’ve seen the trickle down of “always on” over the decades and I don’t think it is good habit for people nor a company.
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Old 13th April 2021, 07:40 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
How infantilizing. The campaigners should inquire with their local BDSM community, whether there are any subs that are into diaper play, if that's their fetish. Keep the bedroom out of the government.
Er….
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Old 13th April 2021, 07:55 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Because that is what this is about. Most people these days will have their work email on their personal device(s) so when that email is sent out at 9pm it intrudes into their non-working time, and most people find it very hard to not check it. Campaigners want there to be cut off times, blocked times and so on for such communications.
That wasn't my experience, but maybe that was unusual; I always had a company-provided device, but that's because I was usually on an on-call rota. I was not expected to check email outside of working hours, however (we were paged or phoned when on call). Also, for the last twenty years of my employment I worked in global teams, so people could be sending me emails at any time of my day, while they were in their normal working hours. Setting up email servers to delay messages until I was in the office seems an unnecessary burden (and something adding an extra risk of messages being lost).
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Old 13th April 2021, 07:57 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post

Most of the people still checking email outside of "working hours" are in salaried positions without fixed working hours anyway.
Not in the UK, that's a US concept of 'exempt' employees, as far as I'm aware.
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Old 13th April 2021, 08:31 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Can you give some examples - love to see if my local MP is aware of such legislation - she often speaks of what you do better in the USA (she is American).


That’s correct.



Not in the UK. Whether you work for Tesco as a till operator or a Director at Barclays you will be expected to be able to access work email and most people won’t have a dedicated device provided by work they can switch off when not working.



From what I understand (from the campaigners I’ve heard) they want no emails to be sent to you outside your work hours so you won’t get any notifications outside your work hours - one assumes they do accept that there may be times when an out of hours email may be appropriate “Please don’t come into work tomorrow - the store fell into a 100 foot sinkhole”.

I actually think the campaigners have a good idea, I’ve seen the trickle down of “always on” over the decades and I don’t think it is good habit for people nor a company.
Why is Tesco sending emails for immediate action to till operators outside of their scheduled shifts?
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Old 13th April 2021, 11:01 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why is Tesco sending emails for immediate action to till operators outside of their scheduled shifts?
Who says they are for immediate action?
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Old 13th April 2021, 11:16 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Who says they are for immediate action?
If they're not for immediate action, then why is a Tesco till operator giving a single thought to after-hours emails in the first place?
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Old 13th April 2021, 11:19 AM   #187
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Because if you ignore your work after hours but your co-worker doesn't that will often be falsely lead to them being seen as a "harder" or "better" worker.

And no this isn't a good thing. And no this isn't a "Shrug that's humanity we're not robots" thing either.
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Old 13th April 2021, 08:10 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Ministers, eh? I guess the COE really does run things. : )
Well, 26 seats in the House of Lords are reserved for bishops and archbishops of the Church, but I'm pretty sure Mojo and The Guardian were referring to Cabinet members.
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Old 13th April 2021, 09:35 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Because if you ignore your work after hours but your co-worker doesn't that will often be falsely lead to them being seen as a "harder" or "better" worker.
If Tesco doesn't care whether you reply right away, why would they care whether some other till operator replies right away?
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Old Yesterday, 12:31 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If they're not for immediate action, then why is a Tesco till operator giving a single thought to after-hours emails in the first place?
Because Tesco employees are mostly humans.
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Old Yesterday, 12:43 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If Tesco doesn't care whether you reply right away, why would they care whether some other till operator replies right away?
I'm pretty sure that the "right to disconnect" measures aren't for the benefit of Tesco till operators.
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Old Yesterday, 01:16 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm pretty sure that the "right to disconnect" measures aren't for the benefit of Tesco till operators.
Yes they are, they are for everyone.
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Old Yesterday, 01:19 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yes they are, they are for everyone.
What I mean is that no-one is generally requiring Tesco till operators to be responsive to work emails out of hours. They're requiring it for executives, support staff, developers.
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