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Old 11th October 2018, 09:59 AM   #1681
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Johnny English
Austin Powers.

I suspect the GRU have been picking the wrong SIS agent as a role model. (It has not been MI6 since WW2; but since the domestic agency the Security Service would be abbreviated SS they seem to be happy to go with MI5).
Not really British, must be a double agent.
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Old 11th October 2018, 04:03 PM   #1682
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Who are both answerable to...?
Her Majesty.
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Old 11th October 2018, 04:56 PM   #1683
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No, the PM who is answerable to the electorate.
You think HM has anything to do with it?
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Old 13th October 2018, 03:01 AM   #1684
Henri McPhee
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
No, the PM who is answerable to the electorate.
You think HM has anything to do with it?
I remember reading once that the chief of the secret service had a special key and access to HM. It's not a matter which is reported in the mainstream media or in history textbooks. I admit that any opinion about the matter by me is pure speculation. In other words it's secret. Technically, it's her Majesty's government in the same way as judges and barristers take an oath of allegiance to the Queen.

The websites on the GRU in Russia seem to imply that the GRU has the full support of Putin and is under the full control of Putin. I'm not so sure that is always the case particularly if a coup is being planned, or an attempt to oust Putin is going on behind closed doors. It could be that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing half the time:

https://uk.reuters.com/uk.reuters.co...-idUKKCN1MI27F

Quote:
The GRU answers directly to the chief of the general staff, Valery Gerasimov, and the Russian defence minister, Sergei Shoigu, each of whom are thought to have access to Russia’s portable nuclear briefcase.

Russia’s two other main intelligence and security services were both created from the Soviet-era KGB: the Foreign Intelligence Service, or SVR, and the Federal Security Service, or FSB.

What are the GRU’s capabilities?

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 13th October 2018 at 03:04 AM.
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Old 13th October 2018, 03:35 AM   #1685
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I remember reading once that the chief of the secret service had a special key and access to HM. It's not a matter which is reported in the mainstream media or in history textbooks. I admit that any opinion about the matter by me is pure speculation. In other words it's secret. Technically, it's her Majesty's government in the same way as judges and barristers take an oath of allegiance to the Queen.

....
Yep, I'm sure he just sneaks up to the back door, probably when Phil's out.

Bit of hanky panky going on. But that's just speculation on my part.
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Old 13th October 2018, 03:42 AM   #1686
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I remember reading once that the chief of the secret service had a special key and access to HM...
Might be apocryphal. She's one of the most photographed people in history, yet nobody's spotted the keyhole.
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Old 13th October 2018, 08:44 AM   #1687
Henri McPhee
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Yep, I'm sure he just sneaks up to the back door, probably when Phil's out.

Bit of hanky panky going on. But that's just speculation on my part.
I agree that Putin is not the King of Russia. It's a moot point to say whether he is ever in disagreement, or argument, with the GRU or is ever not in total support and control of the GRU, and that he knows exactly what they are up to all the time. There seem to be similar sorts of power struggles in America.

As far as the UK goes it's a question of constitutional history. It's Her Majesty's government and Her Majesty's secret service. I think it's even Her Majesty's opposition. I seem to recall there was a bit of controversy about Corbyn being reluctant to give some kind of allegiance to the Queen a few years ago. I agree that the Queen doesn't write the Queen's speech which outlines government policy when parliament opens. The general line given to the public is that the Queen is above politics, which may be true in a way.

There is some kind of simple explanation of the Queen's powers at this website:

http://royalcentral.co.uk/blogs/insi...s-powers-22069

Quote:
Armed Forces
The Queen’s powers in the Armed Forces are usually used on the advice of Generals and Parliament though some functions are retained by The Queen herself nowadays.

Commander-in-Chief – The Queen is commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces and all members swear an oath of allegiance to The Queen when they join; they are Her Majesty’s Armed Forces.

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 13th October 2018 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 13th October 2018, 09:36 AM   #1688
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There is a bit of information about what the Queen knows is going on as opposed to what Corbyn might know is going on, or Putin knows exactly what is going on in Russia, at this website:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-for-the-queen

Quote:
Michael Foot and Neil Kinnock both became privy counsellors, which entitled them to security information and briefings they might otherwise have not been able to obtain.

While MPs have to swear or affirm allegiance to the Queen, the oath required of privy council members is more extensive.

The current wording, which has been around since Tudor times, states: “You will not know or understand of any manner of thing to be attempted, done or spoken against Her Majesty’s person, honour, crown or dignity royal, but you will let and withstand the same to the uttermost of your power, and either cause it to be revealed to Her Majesty herself, or to such of her privy council as shall advertise Her Majesty of the same.

“You will in all things to be moved, treated and debated in council, faithfully and truly declare your mind and opinion, according to your heart and conscience; and will keep secret all matters committed and revealed unto you, or that shall be treated of secretly in council.”

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 13th October 2018 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 14th October 2018, 09:52 AM   #1689
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I think it is more a change of mind from the UK in how to deal with these kinds of incidents, in the past they'd have been brushed under the carpet and someone would have had a word with the Russian ambassador who would have huffed and puffed a bit and that's it. Now I think it is UK policy to expose them to the world and to ridicule. About time if you ask me, the likes of Putin often get away with their actions because other countries want to keep good public relations or think it's somehow beneath them to engage. Let's show the world not only that they are engaged in such actions but how stupid and ridiculous they are.
I agree that Putin seems to have some funny ideas about bumping off so-called traitors who are living in Britain. Those funny ideas contravene international law, which is dangerous. The point I am trying to make is that there seems to be some people in Russia, possibly in the GRU, who are more extreme than Putin and who wish to oust him from power. It's a bit like Trump thinks all the oil in Iraq and Iran belongs to him. The problem for Putin then is political. There is an interesting website about all this from a Britisher which is not the usual anti-Putin hysteria, or about Putin being the most dangerous person in the world stuff:

https://www.channel4.com/news/by/ale...ulling-strings

Quote:
That is the more difficult question to weigh. But for now “big bad Russia”, “big nasty Putin” and “poor heroic Ukraine” looks a little too simplistic to me.

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 14th October 2018 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 14th October 2018, 11:49 AM   #1690
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I remember reading once that the chief of the secret service had a special key and access to HM. It's not a matter which is reported in the mainstream media or in history textbooks. I admit that any opinion about the matter by me is pure speculation. In other words it's secret.
It'll be about as real as the secret Tube station under Buck House, then.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 14th October 2018 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 14th October 2018, 02:17 PM   #1691
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
It'll be about as real as the secret Tube station under Buck House, then.
I have heard that story about a Tube station supposedly being under Buck House before now. I don't suppose it's got much to do with Putin or him bumping off people he doesn't like. Most people on the internet just say it's bollocks, but there is such a thing as official secrets and news blackouts. There is a bit of interesting waffle about the matter, which I admit is hearsay evidence, but it seems to come from somebody who seems to be in the know about these things:

Quote:
There are tunnels underneath Westminster connecting 10 Downing Street with The Houses of Parliament and Portculis House.

There was a military facility during World War Two under Westminster which extended as far North as Trafalgar Square and on to the Citadel in Horseguards Road, it contained amongst other things a hospital and a shooting range.

These are likely inter-connected with the 1950's communications and archival storage tunnels which can be accessed from the BT exchange in Craig's Court.

My opinion is that is more likely than not that these tunnels connect to Buckingham Palace and Clarence House.
There could be a need to evacuate the palace in case of civil unrest.
Cold War worries also about nuclear attacks would have likely meant a nuclear shelter being built under Whitehall for the top brass, Prime Minister and Royals.

I would actually be worried if there were no tunnels in that area, any responsible government should have them in case of invasion.

To the tube also?

Yes, by dint of Portculis House being on top of Westminster Tube station.
But I think it more likely that a mini bus type vehicle would be in the tunnels to get the royal family along them than a tube train.

And I believe there to be another tunnel from Buckingham Place which connects to another tube station which I have worked at. I used to do station checks there but there was one gate which I was never asked to try the lock on and was a different design from all the others.

I wonder if anyone else has noticed it?

Not going to mention the name, just want to see if anyone else has noticed the unusual looking gate at one of London's busiest tube stations.
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Old 14th October 2018, 04:40 PM   #1692
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For full details of the secret tunnel system and it's miniature railway under London read Paul Merton's autobiography 'My Struggle'
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Old 15th October 2018, 03:30 AM   #1693
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I have heard that story about a Tube station supposedly being under Buck House before now. I don't suppose it's got much to do with Putin or him bumping off people he doesn't like. Most people on the internet just say it's bollocks, but there is such a thing as official secrets and news blackouts.
There's also such things as all the tens of thousands of people who have worked on the Underground in the last 50-odd years. The idea that such a facility could exist and would not be noticed and/or "leaked" is in the realms of fantasy. Pretty much everything that is under the surface is known about, long before it's officially acknowledged.

In any case, having a secret Tube station makes no sense whatsoever. Where would it go? It can't link into the existing network, because at any given time that's full of trains full of passengers or maintenance crews doing overnight work that would get in the way. Even if there's a completely separate tunnel to, say, Heathrow (a popular justification), a Tube train is a lot slower than a helicopter, even at top speed and non-stopping.
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Old 15th October 2018, 03:34 AM   #1694
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
For full details of the secret tunnel system and it's miniature railway under London read Paul Merton's autobiography 'My Struggle'
Alternatively Andrew Emmerson & Tony Beard's London's Secret Tubes. Or even my book for the Second World War angle!
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Old 16th October 2018, 02:01 PM   #1695
Henri McPhee
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There is an interesting article about Putin bumping people off, on the internet. Some of it refers to Trump. It may not be entirely accurate. As I have said previously, I think it's all very odd but it could be something to do with the corrupt privatisations of the 1990s under Yeltsin. I still don't understand the motivation. Russia, if not Putin himself, is being made to suffer for it diplomatically, like possibly being expelled from the European Council. I suppose there is nothing new about it all and the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia seems to be up to no good as well like a thug:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/w...tin/100480734/

Quote:
Two of the recent victims, Oleg Erovinkin and Alex Oronov, have been described by Russian analysts as possibly connected to a dossier written by a former British spy about Trump and his campaign staff’s alleged collusion with Russian efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election.
Erovinkin, 61, a general in the Russian spy agency and a close associate of a Putin confidant, was found dead in the back of his car on Dec. 26 in Moscow. The cause of death is unknown.

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Old 16th October 2018, 03:24 PM   #1696
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Blah de blah...

Russia, if not Putin himself, is being made to suffer for it diplomatically, like possibly being expelled from the European Council.


de blah...[/url]
Er Henri, Russia is not a member of the EU.
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Old 16th October 2018, 03:55 PM   #1697
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I still don't understand the motivation. Russia, if not Putin himself, is being made to suffer for it diplomatically, like possibly being expelled from the European Council.
The Kremlin has aimed to foster a siege mentality in the Russian people by convincing them that they are besieged by hostile western forces that constantly lie and slander Russia. This is done to both insulate the Russian people from western sources of critique against Putin's regime and to try and rally the Russian people to his side through appeals for patriotism.

This explains the brazen nature of this attempted assassination and many other Russian black operations: most Russian's only hear about how Russia is being slandered and falsely accused by western countries even-though it's completely innocent. If they are caught red handed like this and are denounced they simply use this to reinforce their peoples sense of victim-hood and their siege mentality.

Considering Putin's low popularity at the moment the question right now is how desperate he will become. Even more serious acts of aggression against western countries are not out of the question as he seeks to remain in power by distracting his people with imaginary monsters.
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Old 16th October 2018, 03:56 PM   #1698
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Er Henri, Russia is not a member of the EU.
I think he meant the Council of EuropeWP.
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Old 16th October 2018, 04:56 PM   #1699
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I think he meant the Council of EuropeWP.
Who can tell?
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Old 17th October 2018, 09:04 AM   #1700
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These rumblings about Russia leaving the Council of Europe seem to have been going on at least since 2014:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...crimea-ukraine

Quote:
The resolution, adopted by 145 votes to 21, with 22 abstentions, was passed after a heated three-hour debate in Strasbourg. Russian members stormed out of the chamber before the vote took place. The assembly condemned Russia's annexation of Crimea, its military occupation of Ukrainian territory, and Moscow's "illegal so-called referendum" on the peninsula. This – and Moscow's ongoing threat of "military force" – constituted "beyond any doubt, a grave violation of international law", the assembly declared.

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Old 29th December 2018, 07:06 AM   #1701
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RT and the chocolate Cathedral
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