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Old 8th July 2019, 01:39 AM   #281
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
He needs more than a majority of Tories, though.
Indeed, he needs almost all of the Tory MPs to support him (at least pay lip service). Only he can hardly be called a unifying character.
True, but at any point in time any Conservative leader will have a significant minority of the party against them.

2/3 actual support combined with the party whip for the remaining 1/3 may be sufficient to block any attempts by the opposition to delay, derail or even stop Brexit.
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Old 9th July 2019, 12:41 AM   #282
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But he doesn't have a majority (or the barest thread of one with the DUP) at all. That "significant minority" is normally dwarfed by the majority they hold in Parliament.

Major had an easier time of things for crying out loud, even at the end, and he was at least semi-competent. Johnson is a hopeless hack in comparison.

Hunt is more of a concern.
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Old 9th July 2019, 11:43 AM   #283
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I hope someone in the debate asks Boris if he supports the Ambassador to the USA or if he agrees with Trump's comments.
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Old 9th July 2019, 02:20 PM   #284
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The ******* state of politics in this country when the favourite to be the next PM is behaving like an twatty teenager on live television to applause from a room full of *****.
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Old 9th July 2019, 02:40 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
The ******* state of politics in this country when the favourite to be the next PM is behaving like an twatty teenager on live television to applause from a room full of *****.
As a Citizen to the US all I can day is:

Welcome to the club.
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Old 9th July 2019, 05:11 PM   #286
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Johnson refused six times to back the Ambassador during the debate.
Hunt stood behind him and urged Trump to treat the UK with "respect" and said it was the prerogative of the UK government to choose its ambassadors
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Old 9th July 2019, 05:35 PM   #287
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Some claim that the source of the leak were backers of Boris and Farage, seeking to undermine the Brexit process, hence the brutal attack on Theresa May by Trump, who is supposedly in on it, his outburst being well-scripted and not the toys out of pram petulance he is trying to convey.

Well, somebody leaked it. The early criminologists - who were Italian - suggested asking the simple question, Cui bono? = 'To whom is it a benefit?'

The answer would be...Boris, Farage and Trump as they get to install an ambassador who is pro Trump, pro Boris /or Nigel, pro-Brexit and pro-Putin.
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Old 9th July 2019, 06:00 PM   #288
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I am beginning to wonder how long Boris would last as PM is he is elected party leader. I really doubt he could survive as long as May could. I think a few months of his subserveance to Trump would be enough to cause a huge revolt within Parliament that he could not survive because too many COnservatives would not back him.
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Old 9th July 2019, 06:04 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Johnson refused six times to back the Ambassador during the debate.
Hunt stood behind him and urged Trump to treat the UK with "respect" and said it was the prerogative of the UK government to choose its ambassadors
Boris is a Trump puppet. Period, end of story.

Sad thing is that Labor's leadership is only marginally better.IMHO the picking of Corbyn as party leader might have cost Labor a majority.
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Old 9th July 2019, 11:54 PM   #290
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Boris will get us out by 31 October. He doesn't have a plan but he has lucky heather, a rabbit's foot and a horseshoe. With all that behind him why would he not be optimistic?
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Old 10th July 2019, 12:47 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Johnson refused six times to back the Ambassador during the debate.
Hunt stood behind him and urged Trump to treat the UK with "respect" and said it was the prerogative of the UK government to choose its ambassadors
I didn't watch the debate (band practice) but caught up with it in the car on the 4 hour drive Oop North this morning. I thought Boris' comments with respect to the ambassador was utterly craven.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am beginning to wonder how long Boris would last as PM is he is elected party leader. I really doubt he could survive as long as May could. I think a few months of his subserveance to Trump would be enough to cause a huge revolt within Parliament that he could not survive because too many COnservatives would not back him.
To infinity and beyond. The Tory rank and file have had a crush on Boris for a couple of decades now and now that the majority of MPs have swung behind him, I think he's unassailable for some significant period of time.

In the same way that the evangelical Christians view President Trump as a godly man (possibly in the mould of Saul) because he's delivering what they want, as long as Boris makes the right noises and attempts to deliver the "blue passports and potatoes by the pound" that the Conservative Members want, it's all fine.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Boris is a Trump puppet. Period, end of story.

Sad thing is that Labor's leadership is only marginally better.IMHO the picking of Corbyn as party leader might have cost Labor a majority.
I'm not sure whether he's a puppet, a fellow traveler or whether he's cannily managing and massaging President Trump's ego but whichever it is, it's unedifying
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Old 10th July 2019, 04:13 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Some claim that the source of the leak were backers of Boris and Farage, seeking to undermine the Brexit process, hence the brutal attack on Theresa May by Trump, who is supposedly in on it, his outburst being well-scripted and not the toys out of pram petulance he is trying to convey.
Why would he need to be? That is his modus operandi for years, he gloats in it being a real punch backer. His response is simply a given, so it isn't like you need to bother getting him in on it, you know exactly what he will do if this came out.
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Old 10th July 2019, 05:54 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am beginning to wonder how long Boris would last as PM is he is elected party leader. I really doubt he could survive as long as May could. I think a few months of his subserveance to Trump would be enough to cause a huge revolt within Parliament that he could not survive because too many COnservatives would not back him.
He will play the same rule as Trump and do it well. Give his backers tax cuts and a free hand to do business any way they like it while making the rubes feel like that actually get something out of this deal. That is why Lynton Crosby is the brains behind all this. His small target campaign strategy is a proven winner.
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Old 10th July 2019, 05:56 AM   #294
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The guardian says that Boris is insouciant.
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Old 10th July 2019, 06:53 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
The guardian says that Boris is insouciant.
If it's the Guardian, shouldn't that be 'insuocaint'?
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Old 10th July 2019, 09:15 AM   #296
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The Ambassador has resigned now anyway. Makes Hunt's stance of defending him to the last look stupid, and Boris's comment about not being presumptuous seem prescient.
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Old 10th July 2019, 09:31 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The Ambassador has resigned now anyway. Makes Hunt's stance of defending him to the last look stupid, and Boris's comment about not being presumptuous seem prescient.
Vote for Boris he will never stand behind anyone for doing their job if a foreign leader objects. He will stab anyone in the back for Trump!
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Old 10th July 2019, 09:41 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The Ambassador has resigned now anyway. Makes Hunt's stance of defending him to the last look stupid, and Boris's comment about not being presumptuous seem prescient.
No it doesn't. One of the reasons given for resigning was the apparent lack of support given by Boris.

Hunt comes out of it looking far better than Boris who today says he has the 'utmost respect' for the ambassador. Pity he didn't have any last night.
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Old 10th July 2019, 10:32 AM   #299
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Meanwhile, I'm reading that Boris could be quite literally unelected if he calls a GE before Brexit. In that case the Cons could leak enough votes to Farage's mob that Boris could lose his seat.

That would be funny I wonder if it will colour his decision making on whether or not to call a GE?
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Old 10th July 2019, 10:40 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
No it doesn't. One of the reasons given for resigning was the apparent lack of support given by Boris.

Hunt comes out of it looking far better than Boris who today says he has the 'utmost respect' for the ambassador. Pity he didn't have any last night.
What a great way to take back sovereignty, allow foreign leaders to tell us whether our ambassadors should keep their posts
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Old 10th July 2019, 10:54 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I didn't watch the debate (band practice) but caught up with it in the car on the 4 hour drive Oop North this morning. I thought Boris' comments with respect to the ambassador was utterly craven.



To infinity and beyond. The Tory rank and file have had a crush on Boris for a couple of decades now and now that the majority of MPs have swung behind him, I think he's unassailable for some significant period of time.

In the same way that the evangelical Christians view President Trump as a godly man (possibly in the mould of Saul) because he's delivering what they want, as long as Boris makes the right noises and attempts to deliver the "blue passports and potatoes by the pound" that the Conservative Members want, it's all fine.



I'm not sure whether he's a puppet, a fellow traveler or whether he's cannily managing and massaging President Trump's ego but whichever it is, it's unedifying
Agreed.

I doubt Trump is an evangelical Christian as per his lack of biblical protocol at his inauguration.

Boris is definitely in Trump's pocket - as is Farage - and the link is Steve Bannon.

Boris didn't support the UK Ambassador Sir Kim Darroch and his excuse for not doing so is so obviously a blatant lie (concern for protecting civil servants from politics).
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Old 10th July 2019, 10:56 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Why would he need to be? That is his modus operandi for years, he gloats in it being a real punch backer. His response is simply a given, so it isn't like you need to bother getting him in on it, you know exactly what he will do if this came out.
I do believe there is a conspiracy - Russia - which drives Trump's machinations.

ETA : see this new thread here, about 'Putin and The European Trump'
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Old 10th July 2019, 11:09 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The Ambassador has resigned now anyway. Makes Hunt's stance of defending him to the last look stupid, and Boris's comment about not being presumptuous seem prescient.
So you want Trump de facto running the UK?
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Old 10th July 2019, 11:10 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
No it doesn't. One of the reasons given for resigning was the apparent lack of support given by Boris.

Hunt comes out of it looking far better than Boris who today says he has the 'utmost respect' for the ambassador. Pity he didn't have any last night.
Yesterday, Boris's line was that under him the UK would get it's Mojo back.

Seems he thinks Mojo means stitching up your countrymen for the benefit of foreign powers.
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Old 10th July 2019, 11:10 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I didn't watch the debate (band practice) but caught up with it in the car on the 4 hour drive Oop North this morning. I thought Boris' comments with respect to the ambassador was utterly craven.



To infinity and beyond. The Tory rank and file have had a crush on Boris for a couple of decades now and now that the majority of MPs have swung behind him, I think he's unassailable for some significant period of time.

In the same way that the evangelical Christians view President Trump as a godly man (possibly in the mould of Saul) because he's delivering what they want, as long as Boris makes the right noises and attempts to deliver the "blue passports and potatoes by the pound" that the Conservative Members want, it's all fine.



I'm not sure whether he's a puppet, a fellow traveler or whether he's cannily managing and massaging President Trump's ego but whichever it is, it's unedifying
I now see your total despair about politics now applys to the UK as well as the US.
Problem is despair always favors the other side.
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Old 10th July 2019, 11:17 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
So you want Trump de facto running the UK?
The Brexiteers are funded by and de facto run by Putin, but pretty much the same thing.
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Old 10th July 2019, 11:41 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
The Brexiteers are funded by and de facto run by Putin, but pretty much the same thing.
Putin has found Democracy's Achilles heel:Populism.
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Old 10th July 2019, 02:10 PM   #308
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The ambassador had to go once his emails/memos/telegrams/whatever had been leaked: Hunt was just too dim to realize that. Trying to blame Boris seems rather pathetic - the people who should be blamed are A) Trump - but good luck with that, and B) The leaker.

Why no blame on Hunt? He's the current Foreign Secretary, and it's presumably his department that's leaked the emails. I don't think the leak is his fault, of course, but arguably it's his responsibility.
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Old 10th July 2019, 06:22 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Yesterday, Boris's line was that under him the UK would get it's Mojo back.

Seems he thinks Mojo means stitching up your countrymen for the benefit of foreign powers.
Question is which foreign power....THe USA or Russia, or both?
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Old 10th July 2019, 06:30 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Johnson refused six times to back the Ambassador during the debate.
Hunt stood behind him and urged Trump to treat the UK with "respect" and said it was the prerogative of the UK government to choose its ambassadors
Plays out beautifully for Boris with the resignation today.

Boris! Boris! Boris!

Just think what an amazing relationship you'll have with USA. Half-price schoolgirl hookers, Philip Morris Hospital, London, every policeman armed with a S&W...
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Old 10th July 2019, 06:50 PM   #311
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Boris supporters warning May to keep out of next US Ambassador appointm.
It has to be left to Boris to choose apparently.
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Old 11th July 2019, 12:22 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Question is which foreign power....THe USA or Russia, or both?
I used the plural.
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Old 11th July 2019, 02:33 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
The Brexiteers are funded by and de facto run by Putin, but pretty much the same thing.
Yes, but so is Trump. Lots of puppets, one puppeteer.
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Old 11th July 2019, 02:49 AM   #314
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The ambassador's position was pretty much untenable as soon as the documents were leaked and I'm sure he knew that, with a better President the solution would have been for both sides to publically laugh it off while condemning the leak, the PM to back our diplomat and then for him to quietly resign with dignity down the road a little.

Trump's twitter tantrum spoiled that but made backing Darroch should still have been the governmental position, a good leader, at any level supports and takes responsibility for their staff in public, and deals with problems in private. There should have been a public show of support followed by accepting his resignation. The other acceptable answer in these particular circumstances would have been to voice support for Sir Kim while acknowledging that the criminal leaks had made it impossible for him to do his job. Boris did neither, he didn't even give the third, unacceptable answer, that he should go to appease Trump. He clumsily avoided the question. Boris didn't get it right, he waited for the situation to play out, then jumped on board.
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Old 11th July 2019, 03:51 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The ambassador had to go once his emails/memos/telegrams/whatever had been leaked: Hunt was just too dim to realize that. Trying to blame Boris seems rather pathetic - the people who should be blamed are A) Trump - but good luck with that, and B) The leaker.

Why no blame on Hunt? He's the current Foreign Secretary, and it's presumably his department that's leaked the emails. I don't think the leak is his fault, of course, but arguably it's his responsibility.
Why did he 'have to go'? It's his job to report back. Boris should have stuck up for him and his mealy mouthed weaselly explanation for not doing so shows what a mendacious scallywag he is.

You don't know it was someone in the Foreign Ofice who leaked it.
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Old 11th July 2019, 03:53 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Plays out beautifully for Boris with the resignation today.

Boris! Boris! Boris!

Just think what an amazing relationship you'll have with USA. Half-price schoolgirl hookers, Philip Morris Hospital, London, every policeman armed with a S&W...
...Two weeks holiday a year, zippo maternity or paternity leave, multi-thousand dollar healthcare bills or face bankruptcy, greater riches but a higher state of constant anxiety.
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Old 11th July 2019, 04:14 AM   #317
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I do believe there is a conspiracy - Russia - which drives Trump's machinations.

ETA : see this new thread here, about 'Putin and The European Trump'
Oh sure there was likely a conspiracy to release the communications, but why on earth you would include Trump in something like that? His reactions are a given, and he isn't exactly good at not saying the things that totally undermine his position. All liability and no advantage to this.

Trump loves to feud and it doesn't matter if the individual is a movie star or the UK ambassador. His reactions are a given.
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Old 11th July 2019, 04:29 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Oh sure there was likely a conspiracy to release the communications, but why on earth you would include Trump in something like that? His reactions are a given, and he isn't exactly good at not saying the things that totally undermine his position. All liability and no advantage to this.

Trump loves to feud and it doesn't matter if the individual is a movie star or the UK ambassador. His reactions are a given.
I reckon this time it was all carefully scripted and faked to bring about a non-independent ambassador as machinated by the dark forces.
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Old 11th July 2019, 04:43 AM   #319
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But he was up for replacement soon anyway.
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Old 11th July 2019, 05:00 AM   #320
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What happened to voting leave to take back control?.
We need to put these jumpity upstarts in their place. Who do they think they are telling us who our ambassador should be?

Not only should we pick Boy George, Nigella Lawson or some other person banned from America as our new Ambassador we should take a trick out of Trump's book and move our Embassy*. I suggest Jamestown to reflect the time when America was great. When we owned it.






*Jerusalem
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