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Old 9th May 2014, 11:34 AM   #601
PartSkeptic
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Originally Posted by I Ratant View Post
.
Back when Teri Schiavo was in the news, the lack of faith healers pounding on the door of the hospital was remarkable.
Why would a psychic want to win the lottery?

The healers I am aware of work quietly and without fanfare. Those in white suits on TV - well, no doubt it helps the donations - and no doubt they claim that success and wealth is a sign that God rewards the faithful. In some matters I am AllSkeptic.
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Old 9th May 2014, 11:39 AM   #602
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Scorpion.

Just did some internet searches on the third eye. Interesting that ancient wisdom claimed that humans had a "third eye". It seems that the pineal gland has retinal cells, and can sense light and dark.

There were all sorts of descriptions as to what is associated with the "spiritual opening" of the third eye. Colors, shapes, emotions, human and not so human forms, other worlds, and a general increase in psychic abilities.

I got the impression that primary aim of many sites was to sell. Lots of words and awe and wonder. And some scary stuff. Enter the dungeon and experience the dragon.

With all the people I came across, the third eye was never really discussed. They simply saw spirits. Or they astral traveled. Or had NDEs. And there were a number were frauds who were out to impress others (and take their money).

I think that there might be something to this third eye, but I do not think it is something that can be turned on by training.

You might find that you experience visions because of auto-suggestion. Telling a hypnotized subject that there is a gorilla in the room is easy. Even afterward they have trouble with reality - saying that that DID see the gorilla.

Still, it is research of the kind that science promotes. The starting phase anyhow.
No, it really isn't; the starting phase- the very first principle- of any research of the kind that actual science would promote is that the proposition be falsifiable, that it be one that can be proven wrong. And that is a burden borne by the idea's proponent, one that Scorpion, with his reliance on anecdote as evidence, hasn't met. He can have all the faith he wants, but it's by no stretch of definition "science" at all.
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Last edited by turingtest; 9th May 2014 at 12:49 PM. Reason: clarify
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Old 9th May 2014, 11:39 AM   #603
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Many people wish to win the lottery.
Me, I'd have no use for a million (or more) dollars, so I don't participate in the additional tax the lottery is.
Those televangelists more than likely have cars like one I saw over at the Mall.
Rolls Royce Silver Shadow. .. "Pastor 9" as a vanity plate. I bet the contributors to the purchase of that car are driving clapped-out Nissans and Chevys.
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Old 9th May 2014, 11:57 AM   #604
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Fascinating about the pineal gland.

While I just got some Wikipedia "learning" on the subject, there was this:

"Numerous spiritual philosophies contain the notion of an inner Third Eye that is related to the Ajna chakra and also the pineal gland, and to which is attributed significance in mystical awakening or enlightenment, clairvoyant perception, and higher states of consciousness. This idea occurs historically in ancient central and east Asia, and also in contemporary occult theories relating to yoga, Theosophy, Hinduism, Pagan religions, and New Age spiritual philosophies. There is no clinical evidence to support these assertions."

Still, an interesting topic I knew nothing about. Thanks PartSkeptic!
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Old 9th May 2014, 12:53 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Why would a psychic want to win the lottery?
The healers I am aware of work quietly and without fanfare. Those in white suits on TV - well, no doubt it helps the donations - and no doubt they claim that success and wealth is a sign that God rewards the faithful. In some matters I am AllSkeptic.
If psychics charge for their services, it strongly suggests that they want money. If I wanted money (and I do), I'd want to win the lottery. I don't want to lose money, so I don't play the lottery, but I'd still like to win it.

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Old 9th May 2014, 01:11 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Why would a psychic want to win the lottery?
Why wouldn't they?

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The healers I am aware of fake it work quietly and without fanfare.
Fixed.
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Old 9th May 2014, 01:13 PM   #607
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I can't help having a car-crash curiosity about what Scorpion will report.

Scorpion is uncertain that he really has a third eye, uncertain whether he can open it, uncertain that there is a spirit world, uncertain that his uncertain third eye can actually see the uncertain spirit world, and uncertain of how he could tell if he is seeing the spirit world he's uncertain of with the third eye he's uncertain of...

On the other hand, we know people regularly misinterpret what they see, or see things that aren't there. We know that sensory deprivation, e.g. shutting your eyes, will cause false perceptions due to noise in the system, and may eventually produce hallucinations. So sitting with eyes shut concentrating on vision for lengthy periods is very likely to result in seeing things (a really fun example is the Strange Face in the Mirror illusion, sometimes called the Bloody Mary illusion, or the Monster in the Mirror illusion, which involves staring at oneself in a mirror in a room so dark you can barely make out your face).

I'm curious to see how Scorpion, if, as is quite possible, he sees something, will reject the most probable explanation, that is based on well verified experiment, in favour of a fiction, the principles of which he admits to being uncertain of in every respect...

ETA - apologies for the convolution of that last sentence, I wasn't thinking clearly.
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Old 9th May 2014, 02:36 PM   #608
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Why would a psychic want to win the lottery?
If they do not want riches for themselves they could donate the winnings to a charity. Why don't they do that?
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Old 9th May 2014, 08:21 PM   #609
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Scorpion.

Just did some internet searches on the third eye. Interesting that ancient wisdom claimed that humans had a "third eye". It seems that the pineal gland has retinal cells, and can sense light and dark.
... If you're a tuatara (a species of New Zealand lizard). Or any of several varieties of extinct crustacean.

It's not true at all of humans, or of any other mammal. Indeed, the pineal gland in humans is buried at the centre of the brain, just above and behind the connection to the spinal cord. It's dark in there.
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Old 10th May 2014, 04:11 AM   #610
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Hi Don, I read your post, I see your points.
Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I am assuming that success in seeing into higher planes, will bring with it evidence that they exist.
I guess you "see" them but you don't think them.


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Old 10th May 2014, 05:02 AM   #611
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Originally Posted by dlorde View Post
I can't help having a car-crash curiosity about what Scorpion will report.
I saw nothing at all last night. No spots or blobs, and I was plagued by doubts that I am capable of seeing into higher worlds. But I will continue
To give it half an hour a day for some weeks, or months.
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Old 10th May 2014, 05:40 AM   #612
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
.. plagued by doubts that I am capable of seeing into higher worlds .. weeks, or months.
I'll save you the angst: no one can.


You're welcome.
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Old 10th May 2014, 06:11 AM   #613
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I saw nothing at all last night. No spots or blobs, and I was plagued by doubts that I am capable of seeing into higher worlds. But I will continue
To give it half an hour a day for some weeks, or months.
That's another danger of this mystic mumbo-jumbo: when people can't get it to work, their failure to do so can erode self esteem."Maybe I'm not 'pure of heart' enough . . . "
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Old 10th May 2014, 08:09 AM   #614
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The psychics that I knew that had a reasonable amount of success, not 100% by any means, told me that they are not allowed (by a Higher Authority) to try to get riches for themselves or others.

The problem is that people think the rules for psychics and the rules are physics must be the same.

If you believe absolutely that only the material world exists - and insist on the proofs that work only in the material world, then you are totally isolated from any possibility that you are wrong.

When it comes to human behavior, we do not follow a set of rules. What makes one person better, may kill another.

I am still waiting for someone to tell me how a single cell can develop into an animal that can get up and run away from a predator within minutes of being born. How did that creature get the referential memories for its sight?

There is no way that such information is programmed into the DNA. If I am told scientists will find it, then I say do the math. Memory of a tree to avoid, memory of running zigzag, and so on - these require a huge amount of programmed memory brain cells.

Change a gene or two, and something big happens. How do you change a gene or two and the creature runs into the tree instead of a around it?

The memories are in the (reincarnated) souls that guides how the cells divide and arrange themselves, and ultimately the memories in the brain. Sure 99.999% is physics. It is the 0.001 percent that makes the difference. That is why the supernatural is so elusive. Just guessing as to the percentages, except that they are not 100% and 0%.
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Old 10th May 2014, 09:13 AM   #615
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The psychics that I knew .. told me that they are not allowed (by a Higher Authority) to try to get riches for themselves or others.
And magicians are governed by the Ministry of Magic. It's good that so many fictional authorities exist to control so much fictional power.


Quote:
If you believe absolutely that only the material world exists - and insist on the proofs that work only in the material world, then you are totally isolated from any possibility that you are wrong.
It does not require belief, only evidence. If these proofs work in some other world, then how can they convince me?

Quote:
I am still waiting for someone to tell me how a single cell can develop into an animal that can get up and run away from a predator within minutes of being born. How did that creature get the referential memories for its sight?
You don't really want an answer to mess-up your incredulity. Preserve that righteous gaping jaw and that cavernous open mind at all costs.

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There is no way that such information is programmed into the DNA. If I am told scientists will find it, then I say do the math. Memory of a tree to avoid, memory of running zigzag, and so on - these require a huge amount of programmed memory brain cells.
Strawman much?

Quote:
Change a gene or two, and something big happens. How do you change a gene or two and the creature runs into the tree instead of a around it?
Make it develop no eyes.

Quote:
The memories are in the (reincarnated) souls that guides how the cells divide and arrange themselves
I'd ask for evidence, but you'll only say it's happening in some other world.

Quote:
It is the 0.001 percent that makes the difference. That is why the supernatural is so elusive. Just guessing as to the percentages, except that they are not 100% and 0%.
No.

ETA: I'm guessing your skeptic part is 0.001%.
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Old 10th May 2014, 09:55 AM   #616
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The psychics that I knew that had a reasonable amount of success, not 100% by any means, told me that they are not allowed (by a Higher Authority) to try to get riches for themselves or others.

The problem is that people think the rules for psychics and the rules are physics must be the same.

If you believe absolutely that only the material world exists - and insist on the proofs that work only in the material world, then you are totally isolated from any possibility that you are wrong.

When it comes to human behavior, we do not follow a set of rules. What makes one person better, may kill another.

I am still waiting for someone to tell me how a single cell can develop into an animal that can get up and run away from a predator within minutes of being born. How did that creature get the referential memories for its sight?

There is no way that such information is programmed into the DNA. If I am told scientists will find it, then I say do the math. Memory of a tree to avoid, memory of running zigzag, and so on - these require a huge amount of programmed memory brain cells.

Change a gene or two, and something big happens. How do you change a gene or two and the creature runs into the tree instead of a around it?

The memories are in the (reincarnated) souls that guides how the cells divide and arrange themselves, and ultimately the memories in the brain. Sure 99.999% is physics. It is the 0.001 percent that makes the difference. That is why the supernatural is so elusive. Just guessing as to the percentages, except that they are not 100% and 0%.
However, in this case Scorpion did win the lottery psychically (according to Scorpion), so either you or Scorpion are wrong about this.

Ward
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Old 10th May 2014, 10:12 AM   #617
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
However, in this case Scorpion did win the lottery psychically (according to Scorpion), so either you or Scorpion are wrong about this.

Ward
Yes! somebody up there, in the spirit world, gave me a five number win in 1998 by giving me the numbers by telepathy. But they have never given me another win, and I have accepted that to get a big win by this method would be bad karma. I do not think that just any spirit can see into the future, so it had to be someone particularly capable. Not just one of my departed relatives. So I think I was given a kind of special gift that was just enough money for me to purchase a good computer. It also gave me some personal evidence that the spirit world exist, and can get in touch with me if they want.
But I do not think it will happen again.
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Last edited by Scorpion; 10th May 2014 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 10th May 2014, 10:17 AM   #618
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post

I am still waiting for someone to tell me how a single cell can develop into an animal that can get up and run away from a predator within minutes of being born. How did that creature get the referential memories for its sight?
Your wait is over: Evolution - via natural selection.

Quote:
There is no way that such information is programmed into the DNA.
Sorry, your personal incredulity or lack of knowledge does not an argument make.

"Evolution is cleverer than you are" - Orgel's Second Rule

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Old 10th May 2014, 10:26 AM   #619
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
... I was plagued by doubts ...
No, you were not.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
... higher worlds. ...
Which can not be shown to exist.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
... But I will continue
To give it half an hour a day for some weeks, or months.
You most certainly will.
It'll be many months, if not longer. In the mean time you will talk about your claimed doubts while at the same time demonstrating your certainty about your belief by talking about it endlessly.
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Old 10th May 2014, 10:35 AM   #620
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Yes! somebody up there, in the spirit world, gave me a five number win in 1998 by giving me the numbers by telepathy. But they have never given me another win, and I have accepted that to get a big win by this method would be bad karma. I do not think that just any spirit can see into the future, so it had to be someone particularly capable. Not just one of my departed relatives. So I think I was given a kind of special gift that was just enough money for me to purchase a good computer. It also gave me some personal evidence that the spirit world exist, and can get in touch with me if they want.
But I do not think it will happen again.
Yep, no doubts.
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Old 10th May 2014, 10:50 AM   #621
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A year ago I nearly committed suicide I was so low down. I went to the garage for some rope and as I unlocked the garage door I asked myself what I was thinking of and how could I do this to my family. The day after my daughter emailed to ask if I was ok and that she had, had a dreadful dream. I had to beg her to tell me what the dream was and she said she had dreamt that I committed suicide. In the past couple of weeks I have been suicidal again particularly Wednesday this week and two of my daughters turned up unexpectedly and saved me again although they didn't know I was about to do it again. They saved me from doing the dreadful act
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Old 10th May 2014, 10:57 AM   #622
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I am out of here!
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Old 10th May 2014, 10:57 AM   #623
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Wow, mstricky. Please find someone you can talk to. I wish you the best. Stick around, there's stuff to laugh about still.
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Old 10th May 2014, 11:14 AM   #624
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post
A year ago I nearly committed suicide I was so low down. I went to the garage for some rope and as I unlocked the garage door I asked myself what I was thinking of and how could I do this to my family. The day after my daughter emailed to ask if I was ok and that she had, had a dreadful dream. I had to beg her to tell me what the dream was and she said she had dreamt that I committed suicide. In the past couple of weeks I have been suicidal again particularly Wednesday this week and two of my daughters turned up unexpectedly and saved me again although they didn't know I was about to do it again. They saved me from doing the dreadful act
You have had evidence of esp, and so you have reason to believe in a spirit world. The spirits teach suicide is a mistake. We are here for experience sake, and even if the experience is hard, it is still beneficial to the soul.
To cut yourself off is to limit the opportunity for spiritual growth, and the problem will be moved on to affect your next incarnation. I recommend going to a spiritualist church for healing, as this will cleanse your aura of negative energy's that you may have attracted to yourself by feeling low. It is a difficult cycle to break out of without help. You could of course seek medical advise, as they have medication that can help.
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Old 10th May 2014, 11:20 AM   #625
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
You have had evidence of esp, and so you have reason to believe in a spirit world. The spirits teach suicide is a mistake. We are here for experience sake, and even if the experience is hard, it is still beneficial to the soul.
To cut yourself off is to limit the opportunity for spiritual growth, and the problem will be moved on to affect your next incarnation. I recommend going to a spiritualist church for healing, as this will cleanse your aura of negative energy's that you may have attracted to yourself by feeling low. It is a difficult cycle to break out of without help. You could of course seek medical advise, as they have medication that can help.
Yes I know I need help but don't know where to find it. Thanks
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Old 10th May 2014, 11:24 AM   #626
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
... the supernatural is so elusive. Just guessing as to the percentages, except that they are not 100% and 0%.
Another example of still using magic for an attempt at understanding the natural world. Whatever magic is believed may apply, magic is never 0%.
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Old 10th May 2014, 11:25 AM   #627
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post


Yes I know I need help but don't know where to find it. Thanks
Well, where are you? We don't need an address, just a city. Plenty of people here are very good about finding such resources.

Ward
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Old 10th May 2014, 11:32 AM   #628
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
You have had evidence of esp, and so you have reason to believe in a spirit world. The spirits teach suicide is a mistake. We are here for experience sake, and even if the experience is hard, it is still beneficial to the soul.

To cut yourself off is to limit the opportunity for spiritual growth, and the problem will be moved on to affect your next incarnation. I recommend going to a spiritualist church for healing, as this will cleanse your aura of negative energy's that you may have attracted to yourself by feeling low. It is a difficult cycle to break out of without help. You could of course seek medical advise, as they have medication that can help.

Someone tells you they have suicidal tendencies and your reaction is to offer more of your claptrap?
Medical advice yes.
The rest of your gibberish indicates you should also seek such advice.
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Old 10th May 2014, 11:35 AM   #629
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Originally Posted by ComfySlippers View Post
Someone tells you they have suicidal tendencies and your reaction is to offer more of your claptrap?
Medical advice yes.
The rest of your gibberish indicates you should also seek such advice.
Unlike you, mstricky has some beliefs.
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Old 10th May 2014, 11:47 AM   #630
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post


Yes I know I need help but don't know where to find it. Thanks
No.
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Old 10th May 2014, 11:49 AM   #631
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Unlike you, mstricky has some beliefs.
So that makes his opinion invalid?

I'm just going to put my two cents in here, You're doing more damage to MS mental state by perpetuating his belief. MS should seek someone to talk to and hopefully in time accept the death.
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Old 10th May 2014, 11:49 AM   #632
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
Well, where are you? We don't need an address, just a city. Plenty of people here are very good about finding such resources.

Ward
Manchester UK. If I do ended it all I want to say that everything I have posted on here is the truth. Integrity is my middle name and always has/will be
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Old 10th May 2014, 11:59 AM   #633
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Unlike you, mstricky has some beliefs.
Irrational beliefs, like yours.
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Old 10th May 2014, 12:02 PM   #634
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Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
Irrational beliefs, like yours.
So do you want to take away beliefs that may comfort her?
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Old 10th May 2014, 12:06 PM   #635
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post
Manchester UK. If I do ended it all I want to say that everything I have posted on here is the truth. Integrity is my middle name and always has/will be
You can find help at the following spiritualist church in Manchester, They have a healing service twice a week.


http://www.manchesterspiritualistcentre.org.uk/
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy

Last edited by Scorpion; 10th May 2014 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 10th May 2014, 12:06 PM   #636
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post
Manchester UK. If I do ended it all I want to say that everything I have posted on here is the truth. Integrity is my middle name and always has/will be
There's a difference between intentional and unintentional. It's difficult if not impossible for outsiders to differentiate between the two.
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Old 10th May 2014, 12:09 PM   #637
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
So do you want to take away beliefs that may comfort her?
You shouldn't offer irrational beliefs.
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Old 10th May 2014, 12:12 PM   #638
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Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
You shouldn't offer irrational beliefs.
I do not think my beliefs are irrational, they are the sum of my experience.

Maybe it is you who should not stomp on the beliefs that may give someone strength to carry on.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 10th May 2014, 12:18 PM   #639
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post
Manchester UK. If I do ended it all I want to say that everything I have posted on here is the truth. Integrity is my middle name and always has/will be
Anyone from England know where mstricky can go for help?

I would suggest that you absolutely tell your daughters. It sounds like they know something's up, but don't keep them guessing. You should let them know exactly what's going on.

Ward
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Old 10th May 2014, 12:19 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I do not think my beliefs are irrational, they are the sum of my experience.
...
They are irrational. You can not demonstrate their claimed validity, they have no prior plausibility.
They are irrational.


Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
...
Maybe it is you who should not stomp on the beliefs that may give someone strength to carry on.
You do not even know what mstricky's claim to suicidal behavior is based upon.
Perhaps you should inquire with her first before you offer BS.
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